The truth about PvE servers

@maximmortality Cool.

Post all that here:

https://www.seaofthieves.com/community/forums/topic/126843/mega-thread-pvp-and-pve-playstyle-discussion/4908

Kind of me think less about pve and hope more they don’t include progression. Just for the sake of balancing out.

You want a free walkthrough to PL, play pve. No thank you.

@maximmortality

If you truly want to know why things are the way they are and to understand how to make this game more enjoyable, I would suggest you read this in full.

Your idea has been posted many times of adding a PVE only server / a server for only friends / a server with only friendly people and no PvP. This is why this idea will never be implemented, and why it will never work:

Let's say you want to stack the FOTD 10 times, that will take you around 8 hours to do if you're quick. Would you rather go into a server where:

(1) You could be tucked on
(2) You could have your loot be stolen
(3) You waste 8 hours of work because a pirate boarded your ship
(4) You're always under constant threat that you could die

OR, would you rather be in a server where you are safe from all of those problems, and don't have to worry about some pirate stealing your loot?

90% of players will take the second option, because there is no reason to put yourself in a situation where bad things could happen when you could alternatively be completely safe from other players. I'm not saying, "90% of players wants PvE only servers," I'm saying that if they were added, 90% of players would play them. Just like if they added an invincibility potion, EVERYONE would use it, does that mean that it should be added or that people want it? No, but since it's in the game people are going to use it.

The problem with this is because 90% of players who do PVE missions will go to this private server, who's left on the normal servers? People who want to steal loot, but there's no loot to be stolen because everyone is off in fairyland completely safe from any problems that would arise. So all the PvPers leave the game, not to even mention that the most popular streamers have built their career by stealing loot. Pace22 would immediately leave the game because there's nothing left to steal, and many more streamers would leave, as well as most of their viewers, which means that SOT no longer has an internet presence. Now that all the news has gotten out that Sea of Thieves has a SEVERE drop in their playerbase, all of these articles will come out online saying things like,

"Sea of thieves is a bad game," and "Sea of Thieves doesn't care about it's playerbase."

So now that there is all of this stigma around SOT there will be no new players because there are only bad reviews. So people who want to buy Sea of Thieves won't, because there are all of these videos and articles saying that it's a bad game. So Sea of Thieves will no longer be getting an influx of new players, which also means that Rare won't make any money from people buying the game.

What do you do once you've reached 75/75/75/20? By that point you'll have most of the cosmetics, and with the emissary system you can easily get the highest level in a 2-3 months. People will get bored because they're not working towards anything, they already have everything in the game and the highest level in the game, what now? Most players who are max level would normally turn to stealing loot so they don't get bored, but because of PVE only servers that's not a thing anymore. Eventually all of those people will leave because there's no point for them to play anymore, so the only people who play SOT are a few thousand people who didn't get max level and only play Sea of Thieves for 2 hours a week.

Most PvPers who play adventure mode don't play it because they want PvP and ship vs ship battles, if they wanted that they would go to arena. People play adventure because they like stealing loot, so you can't just get rid of the loot.

That's why adding PVE only servers are bad, the PvPers will leave, all of the streamers will leave, people will get bored, the internet starts hating on SOT, and then you have a dead game. Not to even mention the fact that the developers themselves have said many times that they want this game to be one where people of all ideologies can play together. The PVPers, PVEers and the RPers can all be in the same server together, and they will do everything they can to keep that in the game. Here are a couple clips from the developers and owners of Sea of Thieves speaking on this subject.

In referenced to being asked if he can reveal more about who will be able to use custom servers and if they will be available to all players or just content creators and the like, he said:

Developers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_yrN70591Q&feature=youtu.be&t=3578

We don't want to separate players (or) player types... ...The whole identity of Sea of Thieves is that it's a shared world, but enabling people to come up with cool things and socialize together is the kind of thing we love to see in the community.

In referenced to being asked what the release date is for custom servers and the controversy around adding things like a PvE only server or private servers for players to play by themselves with reputation gain.

Developers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_yrN70591Q&feature=youtu.be&t=3681

The whole core premise of Sea of Thieves is that there is danger, and to progress; to get to pirate legend. And through all of that stuff there will be danger, and that there will be other players and the risk/reward is all apart of it. That's what Sea of Thieves has always been... ...It's all about a shared world and it's all about players and we have no intention to deviate from that.

Your only argument that you COULD take would be about the first clip and say something along the lines of, "Well if they don't want to separate players or player types then why did they add arena?" Good question. My thinking is that adding arena itself was a different gamemode entirely. It wasn't meant to replace adventure or to become more popular, it was made to be an alternate gamemode that you can play when you get bored of adventure. Now the reason as to why this thinking doesn't translate to a PvE only server is because of what I said above, all of the negative side affects that adding a PvE only mode would have.

As the developers said, the path to pirate legend involves the threat that you could be fought by other players. That's why they aren't going to add a PvE only server, as they believe and the majority of players believe that the path to pirate legend includes the fear of being fought by another pirate and losing your loot. There is no reason to pander to the couple thousand people who want PVE only servers, when you have hundreds of thousands of players who have bought and actively play the game because of the PVP factor. It doesn't make sense to change the game for a few, when the vast majority don't want that. Since most people fall into the category of PvPvEers, that would mean that if you remove the PvP aspect of the game, most of the playerbase would leave.

People are always upset that in a PVP game, which has PVP in it, which is advertised as having PVP, a game that has always had PVP since the beginning of it's existence, a game that YOU bought knowing full well it had PVP, has PVP.

People who think PVP doesn't belong in Sea of Thieves and complain that PVP is, "toxic," are the same type of people to play Minecraft and complain there are no guns.

At the end of the day whether you want to add PvE servers or not, the developers themselves have said multiple times that they don't want to separate players into different servers. They want this game to be one where players of all groups, PvPers, PvErs, and RPers can all be in the same server together. The only thing that can change the developers vision for the game is if the community comes together and says that they want something different. That isn't happening, and they still have a very strong community in favor of PvPvE, so there's no point in trying to do something that could backfire into something very deadly.

The only way that SOT will add a PvE only server, is if a majority of the community says that they want PVE only servers, until that happens, a PVE only server will never be added. When you are the owner of a video game, you have to do what the majority of people want or you risk killing your game, and right now the majority of people do not want PvE only servers, so they aren't going to add them.

the time people waste to write big posts about pve servers, they could train the pvp aspect.

im solo since two years and i have no restrictions in gameplay, because i practiced a lot, because i wanted to play the game as intended and to defend me.

i had the choice. stop playing a game that have a gameplay i dont like, or familiarise with the system.

i choosed the second one.

This also happens to be a massive cripple on the beautiful game rare created. It's detrimental to new players

Won't you think of the new players? /S

I'm tired of new players becoming the designated scapegoat for anti-pvp posts. Here is the giant thing people forget about this game. Some new players purposely get this game to fight ships. There is always this assumption that new players are afraid of fights, when in reality, many of them rearing to start scrapping. I was one of them, the idea of operating a ship for a full scale ship battle was a huge draw for me. The same could be said for every person I currently sail with.

The rest of us didn't just start sailing as experts as soon as we started playing. We sank a lot, but instead of whining to the forums, we learned and got better. If we can do it, so can everyone else.

I'm like a month into the game and yeah it sucks when your checks get slapped but sinking other players/ killing is an awesome feeling. I've also been in several alliances, luckily only betrayed once. I've also met someone cool enough to add. The devastation of loosing a big haul, the joy of defending a big haul well, is all part of the game i feel. Personally I would hate for some lazybeard to blast through their plunderpass (which we pay money for) and quests uninhibited whatsoever other than by easily avoided npcs. Instead of learning how to fight and defend yourself by losing to other experienced players and paying attention to what they do. I blew up an enemy vessel and sunk her with a keg for the 1st time, that felt pretty dope.

Honestly, the real problem is that the onboarding process of the Maiden Voyage is not a proper setup for the game as a whole. A revision to this would do a world of good for new players. For instance, what if we had something more along the lines of:

Wake up on our first island, as we do now, and run through what we presently do. But then, once we have the Ship fixed up we are sent to another island nearby to hunt down an artifact (use the Riddle Voyage for this since X Mark was used on the first island). When dug up spawn some Skeletons in so they get a chance at actually fighting (unlike just whacking the Skeleton when we get the Cutlass presently).

Next we need to acquire a couple of Gems, one could be on a Shipwreck (introduce that Voyage type), one could be held by a Skeleton Captain (using that Voyage type), and one is held by a Ghost Ship (using that Voyage type). We bring all these back and the Pirate Lord makes us a Shroud Breaker so we can get through to the Sea of Thieves. Before we go, he issues us a warning:

Be prepared, once you get to the Sea of Thieves you'll share those waters with other pirates just like you, and their intentions may vary. Some might seek a good battle, some might want to plunder your loot, some might just form up an Alliance with you. But win or lose, it will be an amazing adventure. I recommend getting yourself a crew, but if you're brave enough you could always try to go it alone.

Good luck on the Seas, swabbie. And always remember, it isn't about the gold it's about the glory.

To me, this would give new players a better sense of the game. They would learn a bit about sailing going around gathering the Shroud Breaker (which also fits the lore nicely), it gets them a chance at both land and ship sombat, it shows them a range of the basic activities they will frequently do, it gives a sense of story like a tall tale, and in the end it gives them a reminder that this is an always online game with other players who might attack and sink you at any time.

Compared to what we have now, this would go a long way in actually onboarding new players to the game. It doesn't take a PvE mode, it takes a proper tutorial system.

@maximmortality

I think a lot of the fears of the original adventure going dry can be dealt with with a simple cap in PvE servers. Say 20/20/20, this can give new players an understanding of what's going on while not taking anything from the original game. There is quickly nothing to do in a PvE server, the real fun is interacting with other players.

I always liked ideas like this. The problem with Sea of Thieves is that there is no way for you to practice the game without being put into the public servers. In almost every other multiplayer FPS shooter, there's some way to get into a lobby with bots or a practice lobby where you can just get used to how the game works, the controls, and what the objective of the game is. The only thing that Sea of Thieves has is the Maiden Voyage, and while having a tutorial is good for the game, there needs to be something more for people to just play in the actual map of SOT and have the ability to practice sailing, world events, voyages, etc. Without having to worry about other players. Adding something like CUSTOM SERVERS WOULD FIX THIS ISSUE. But they want to make it where you have to pay for them, meaning that you still have no way of learning the game without being thrown into it for real. So while I don't agree that it should be 20/20/20, I wouldn't mind if it was something on the lower end like 7/7/7.

have a very hard time seeing this destroy SoT but maybe I'm missing something. Please let me know

Well like I said in the above paragraphs, the majority of the playerbase likes playing the PvE aspect of the game as well as the PvP aspect. Think if it like this, CLEARLY there's some reason as to why PvPers flood the adventure servers and not the arena servers. I mean if all they wanted was a ship battle and cannonballs flying with the occasional board attempt where you try to 1v4 the opposing ship, that seems like you would want to play arena. Arena matches have 5 ships in 1 server, and no one runs away from a fight to sink their ship in the redsea. If all PvPers wanted was to fight other ships then it seems like going to arena would be better than hopping servers for 10 minutes just to sail for another 15 so you can FIND a ship to fight.

Which means that there must be some other reason as to why PvPers love playing adventure so much, even though there is much less fighting going on compared to arena. My idea is that most of the time PvPers aren't playing adventure for the PvP, they're playing it because you can steal loot from other players. You can't really steal loot in arena or make a ton of gold, yet in adventure you could get a nice steal worth 1million gold.

So now that we've established WHY PvPers play adventure mode, I'll tell you why the game would die if they added a PvE only server. It's like I said above^

Let's say you want to stack the FOTD 10 times, that will take you around 8 hours to do if you're quick. Would you rather go into a server where:

(1) You could be tucked on

(2) You could have your loot be stolen

(3) You waste 8 hours of work because a pirate boarded your ship

(4) You're always under constant threat that you could die

OR, would you rather be in a server where you are safe from all of those problems, and don't have to worry about some pirate stealing your loot?

90% of players will take the second option, because there is no reason to put yourself in a situation where bad things could happen when you could alternatively be completely safe from other players.

If people were given the option to be in a server where they can do all their voyages in peace rather than play a server where they could lose EVERYTHING that they worked hours for, almost no one would want to play in the risky server if you can just play in the safe server and get the exact same rewards. Meaning that because EVERYONE would just move to the safe server to do all their missions, the people who want to steal loot would all leave the game, because there is no one left to steal loot from. And it just so happens that the most popular twitch streamers (Pace22, Beardaggedon, BoxyFresh, etc.) all do some sort of content where they steal loot. Now Beardaggedon might still play a little bit, but he doesn't ONLY do PvE, he like to steal loot when it's possible and will engage in naval fights. If you remove the PvP aspect (And by PvP I mean loot stealing) then people the majority of people would leave the game, because the majority of people enjoy the PvP and PvE content. Adding PvE only servers would just end up removing PvP from the game.

Now you might be thinking, "But if all PvErs are good for is for PvPers to steal loot from, eventually the game would die out because they would keep getting killed in their servers, so if enough PvEers leave, then the game will die out anyway" And you would be right if the PvPer playerbase went up DRASTICALLY. It's like lions and zebras in Africa. There's only 20,000 lions compared to the 750,000 zebras. So while the lions will easily kill zebras, there are WAY MORE zebras (PvErs) than there are lions (PvPers) and as long as that stays like it has been for the past 3 years, we won't have a problem. As of right now (in my experience) Out of the 6 ships in a server, there will only be 1, MAYBE 2 PvP ships on average who are only there to fight people and steal their loot. Meaning that the other 5 or 4 ships would be perfectly fine doing their voyages in peace and not bothering anybody.

OBVIOUSLY if the number started going up (on average) to 3 PvP ships and 3 PvE ships, then we would have a problem because it would mean that you wouldn't be able to do ANY sort of PvE in peace. As of right now (and for the past 3 years) this hasn't happened, so there isn't any reason for why this would suddenly change.

Now while Sea of Thieves COULD rebrand if they wanted to, and do a complete 180 of their ideals and values. They could decide to just make this game a PvE only game where it is impossible to hurt another player or their ship. MAYBE they might become a more popular game than now. But that's a HUGE risk to take because as of right now, there are hundreds of thousands of people who play this game weekly, and like how the game is. So while the COULD rebrand, it's super risky and they might not ever be able to get this PvE only mode idea to work. It doesn't seem to be in their best interest. Not only that, but like I said in the above paragraph I wrote, the developers have said on stream that they enjoy the game like it is right now. Not only that, but they WANT this game to have PvP, risk/reward systems, and the threat of another pirate coming to steal your treasure.

In referenced to being asked if he can reveal more about who will be able to use custom servers and if they will be available to all players or just content creators and the like, he said:
Developers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_yrN70591Q&feature=youtu.be&t=3578

We don't want to separate players (or) player types... ...The whole identity of Sea of Thieves is that it's a shared world, but enabling people to come up with cool things and socialize together is the kind of thing we love to see in the community.

In referenced to being asked what the release date is for custom servers and the controversy around adding things like a PvE only server or private servers for players to play by themselves with reputation gain.

Developers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_yrN70591Q&feature=youtu.be&t=3681

The whole core premise of Sea of Thieves is that there is danger, and to progress; to get to pirate legend. And through all of that stuff there will be danger, and that there will be other players and the risk/reward is all apart of it. That's what Sea of Thieves has always been... ...It's all about a shared world and it's all about players and we have no intention to deviate from that.

One more thing, I keep coming back to the idea of making it easier to new players and many people disagree with this idea. From what I've seen this is SoT's biggest weakness. Most people I know only played SoT a handful of times and were just griefed before they could really get into it. To them, that's the whole game, get out into the ocean find some loot then die. Out of the hundreds of casual gamers I've talked to about SoT I only know 2 people who actually enjoyed the game. From what I've seen there are a lot more players here to gain from a simple few hours in PvE before taking on real pirates.

It is possible that there are people who would come back and play the game if SOT added a PvE only mode. But will it be enough to replace the hundreds of thousands of people who play this game weekly? I personally don't think so. And even so, they would still have a terrible online presence with the fact that all the top twitch streamers would stop playing the game because they aren't able to steal loot anymore. Meaning that SOT isn't getting as much free advertising as before.

Now again, it is POSSIBLE that there would be new streamers to come and take their place. It's also POSSIBLE that there would be enough people who would come back and refill all the people who leave the game due to the update. But is it worth the risk? They have a pretty stable playerbase right now, and they're making tons of money due to the battlepass and new players. It seems stupid to risk the entire community that has been built over the past 3 years just because a couple thousand people have left the game due to the fact that there are no PvE only server, even though HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of people have stayed and play the game.

Anyways, I like the idea of giving new players a way to experience the game without getting killed by a 4man galleon. So best case scenario is, they add free custom servers with no rep gain or gold gain, but you can use them to learn how to actually play the game, and not have to rely on the Maiden Voyage and the first gold hoarder tutorial.

Problem being that it doesn't matter what I say, or what you say, because the developers don't want to add PvE only servers into their game. The ONLY way that they will EVER add PvE only servers is if hundreds of thousands of people come out and say that that's what they want. And so far, for the past 3 years of this game's existence, the majority of the community has been fine with the fact that there is no PvE only server. Now that could change, but as of right now it isn't, so the Developers will never add a PvE only server.

No.

However, maybe new players are able to get access to a "Trial" server for 24 hours of gameplay, to get a foothold into the game, then go out into the open world and get used to swimming with the big fish. This allows players to learn about the game with everything available to them, and perhaps lessened progress during that trial, or progress increased, but reset upon joining public servers. There. Problem solved (somewhat)

I think that having a new player server where you need to get to level 5 or maybe 10 with the 3 main trading companies with no PVP allowed would make a great way to get new players hooked before introducing them to the giant back-stabbing jerk-holes in the community. Also give them the option to skip if they are looking for that PVP experience.

I will say if I encountered some of the people I have met early on, I would not have continued playing. There are pirates and then there are absolutely horrible people who say "It's a pirate game" to justify being rude, cruel and disgusting in their behavior.

Most of the time the game is great and PVP is just a part of the game. You learn to fight or avoid it. I mainly do PVE / Achievements / Events etc. But I'm not afraid of PVP and some days even feel like seeking it out. But I have seen new players get extremely discouraged. I've even encountered some, who being the first non hostile they have met, are over joyed they finally found someone nice that is willing to ally with them, teach them something, without stealing from them later or pretending to be nice only to kill and steal from them (worst kind of people BTW).

I've also encountered crews who frantically broadcast out that they have a new player on board and please don't be a jerk.

Something is seriously wrong if that is a necessary thing in my opinion.

Something must change. I don't have the answers but there must be a middle ground. I don't think PVE servers are the answer but something to help, new players, players that don't want PVP, or those who don't have the time to learn the mechanics, strategies and skills necessary to compete with people who play the game all the time and specifically go out to grief people, to have a good time.

Lol dang, this thread isn't locked yet?

@redeyesith

This is probably the best reply in this thread & honestly deserves its own.

I feel like a lot of the demands for PvE servers come from new players that haven't adapted to the PvP elements yet.

If expanded in the ways that you mentioned, the Maiden Voyage could at least help make new players aware of PvP, so that they're not caught off guard as easily.

Level-locked noob servers or SBMM could help give new players a fair fight, but I'm not sure how it'd effect matchmaking altogether, with open crews, merges, etc. What we really need is a proper tutorial.