It's a chore to play with friends

I dont have that many friends but I was asking for an increase in the amount of ships per server, so ya could bump into more people if you wanted. so if they ever increase the ship/crew size, they should be able to increase the amount of ships there too.

People will probably argue server stability or it will disrupt the balance of the game, since anyone with more then 4 friends has a high chance of owning that server if they are any good at pvp and everyone else will have to group with randoms to stand a chance, which no one will do.

So I dont see 6-8 man ships ever being a thing since most people dont have 5-7 other people to play with outside of special gatherings and they dont want you and your group being able to dominate a server easily without jumping through all these hoops you seem to know about.

Since you have these 2 other friends, it should be easy to look up those Youtube tutorials you know about and server hop with 2 Brigs, since that will fit all 6 of you and your 2 ships can sail the server and pvp everyone. if 4 sloops can somehow sever hop enough to end up together, you and another Brig can make it happen too : )

The problem is multifaceted here, in part the old Xbox One which remains supported. They had to decrease Ships per Server from 6 to 5 awhile back to address server stability some. They have been hard at work on this, but it isn't as simple as just increase the limits.

And there are balance issues to consider. To increase crew sizes some things would have to change. A competent crew on a Sloop with more than 2 people is basically impossible to sink as it stands now. Can you do it technically, yes, but it always has some risks connected to it (those not in your crew won't respawn on the Ship if they die, so by jumping on a Ship like that they risk being quickly dissolved). So again it is not as simple as just raise the numbers since it will mean additional fine tuning.

That isn't to say it would be impossible, but it isn't entirely an easy thing to do either. At the moment, it feels like focus would be better spent on other things. I also would be willing to wager a guess that the number of people this would benefit would actually be rather small, and could start to skew things in favor of always needing a large number of people to reasonably play (which will reduce the player base more than expand it).

Does it sting sometimes that we can at max play with 4 people without a fair bit of extra effort? For some, absolutely! But I just don't think it is a good move to do overall from numerous standpoints.

@chunk-dvrer said in It's a chore to play with friends:

@redeyesith If the number of people it benefits are low then doesn't that mean that the balancing aspect would remain virtually unchanged whilst still allowing more than four people to play together?

My design still gives players the same ship sizes: 1-2(4) players on sloop, 3-4(6) players on brigantine, 4(-8) players on galleon. Yet in any scenario, people with larger friend groups can still play together. Therefore if large crews would be rare, then what problem does that pose to you? Virtually none.

Furthermore, if more people can play together at a time that will be more tantalizing to the casual players which, last I checked, was the target audience for an open world sandbox.

Once more: There is zero argument against this.

you ever sailed on a galleon? have you ever faced a galleon?

i think the last thing we need is a galleon that is able to use all its cannons while still being able to be steered and the cherry ontop repaired faster than it would take on holes

4 people on the cannons 1 person sailing 1 person who manages sails and one person repairing and the last person doing the jobs that needs extra attention

this idea is poorly thought through

the galleon is a beast in combat its drawbacks? painful to manouver and its extra cannons to be used requires manpower to be switched from one vital job to firing cannons

have you ever faced a galleon before? literally with this idea there'd be no reason to go anything other than galleon

the added crew members literally outweigh all the drawbacks

literally the last thing we need is a gatling gun firing cannons while still having extra crew members to repair and keep it sailing perfectly fine no thanks

don't think the galleon is capable of outputting gatling gun rate of cannonballs? then you haven't played long enough to realize why 8 players is going to break the game

i think you need to think this idea through a little better

i know it sucks not being able to sail with all your friends schedual your sailings

one day you sail with some set of friends and the next some other set of friends ez solution to your problem

@chunk-dvrer said in It's a chore to play with friends:

@redeyesith If the number of people it benefits are low then doesn't that mean that the balancing aspect would remain virtually unchanged whilst still allowing more than four people to play together?

No, the balancing aspect would be greatly changed in numerous contexts. As I said, it isn't as simple a matter of "just up the number of players" and requires a lot more design tweaks than that to accommodate such a change. And even if all of that was done, this would still skew the general balance of the game as it stands in a drastic way.

My design still gives players the same ship sizes: 1-2(4) players on sloop, 3-4(6) players on brigantine, 4(-8) players on galleon. Yet in any scenario, people with larger friend groups can still play together. Therefore if large crews would be rare, then what problem does that pose to you? Virtually none.

Except that it would since to facilitate a change like this would require a cascade of additional changes that you don't seem to be considering. This would be a substantial overhaul with numerous implications.

Furthermore, if more people can play together at a time that will be more tantalizing to the casual players which, last I checked, was the target audience for an open world sandbox.

This is not inherently true. There are many casuals who don't have the amount of friends needed to accommodate these needs. I'd even be willing to argue there is likely more folks in this situation than in the inverse (I could be wrong, but I'd feel more comfortable betting on that than the other way if I had to). If that is true, there would be a greater chance that such a change could very potentially drive down the player base more than it expands upon it, leaving us in a net deficit.

Once more: There is zero argument against this.

Strongly disagree. I believe I have presented more than one argument. Hardware/Infrastructure limitations and gameplay balancing are both valid things to consider when approaching this kind of change. The number of gameplay factors is also greater than you seem to account for. We would have to look at water fill rates, repair rates, and so much more based on this change. Not to mention placing at least some consideration on to how this would impact the smallest of the crews on the Seas (and while this can never be a sole consideration in the development of a game clearly based around crews, it is still a valid consideration).

It isn't as if this isn't something that has been debated in the three years this game has been on the market (on top of the years it spent in development). It has been considered by both the developers and the player base quite extensively. I wouldn't say that it is impossible that we may some day see something come along that allows us to have more than 4 players, but I can almost ensure it will never come by means of increasing current crew sizes. The more likely situation would be a new Ship type that allows for a larger crew, as this has been highly considered for some time (but Ships are actually one of the most complex things to design in this game, so it makes sense this hasn't been a major focus so far). Custom servers are also a thing in development, they will not feature progression but would let people mess around with a full server worth of friends from time to time (and potentially do things that would otherwise be very hard to do).

Anyways, that is all I have to add to this thread. I get the impression that this is one of those where any dissent to the idea, regardless of the validity as to why, will be met with amped resistance based on the flow so far. I wish you all the best, and happy sailing!

I've played countless hours of SoT and I can think of only one instance where there was more people than the crew size on a ship (Brig in this instance). I totally agree there are ways to do it but they aren't as simple as inviting friends or finding the right server from a list. Can you imagine how many more instances we would have of oversized crews if this was the case?!

You do realise that the crew sizes are specifically designed so you can't do everything at once. This means you have to priortise what you're doing and thus creating an element of uncertainty during combat.

I highly doubt that they all knew each other and instead made a party boat. I've had the whole server on my solo sloop before and it was a blast with these complete strangers.

As stated they were probably doing glitter beard and then got bored after. No one expects the 6+ man sloop, mwuahaha!

It's easier to find a solo ship and ask if your friend can join their crew if they're logging off so that each of you can have a ship than it is to server hop and run into each other.

@chunk-dvrer said in It's a chore to play with friends:

@galactic-geek So the way I see it then is that it's either:
A) A death sentence and as such there's no issue with increasing ship sizes as it would remain a death sentence
or
B) It is not a death sentence and as such there's no issue with increasing ship sizes as it seems it would, if nothing else, provide a hardier challenge.

In either case if the complaint is about whether or not solo sloop is a death sentence or not, I'm afraid you're in the wrong thread.

You don't see the difference in fighting as a solo sloop (or duo sloop) against 2 on a sloop or 4 on a sloop, or between 4 on a galleon and 8 ?

I am sure there are pirates around who can handle a complete server on their own, but lets not get carried away and make the pirate life for everybody else who won't sail with 5-8 impossible.

@chunk-dvrer said in It's a chore to play with friends:

you ever sailed on a galleon? have you ever faced a galleon?

Yes

i think the last thing we need is a galleon that is able to use all its cannons while still being able to be steered and the cherry ontop repaired faster than it would take on holes

A galleon would not be able to use all it's cannons and repair at the same time. Additionally, if you wanted to actually maneuver the damn thing, that's one less person. A sloop currently won't take on a galleon and that would hardly change.

did you not say increase crew sizes to 8 on a galleon?

as it currently is i can spare 2 people on cannons one sailing and one managing sails and repairing sometimes switching one cannoneer off to repair or help with sails

with 8 people

i can spare 4 people on the cannon 1 steering 1 managing sails 1 repairing and 1 person switching between repairing and managing sails

the galleon is a beast in combat its drawbacks? painful to manouver and its extra cannons to be used requires manpower to be switched from one vital job to firing cannons

The galleon is a beast in combat, but consider: The sloop vastly outpaces a galleon in a headwind and in addition to that, it is far more maneuverable.

yes if you manage to stay out of the cannon fire of either side of the galleon

it wont matter how good you manouver the sloop if you get hit by a volley fire of 4 people rapid shooting cannons in one go

you'll be stuck repairing

have you ever faced a galleon before? literally with this idea there'd be no reason to go anything other than galleon

I have gone against a galleon, it is pain, when I make mistakes. The reason you pick anything else is because you don't have the friend group size. If anything taking a 6 man brigantine over a six man galleon would be better. The galleon is not the beginning and the end of all that is holy.

actually no i choose to use the brig because it has decent manouverability and firepower

we are 3 and i have 20+ people i can sail with but i still choose to do brig

literally the last thing we need is a gatling gun firing cannons while still having extra crew members to repair and keep it sailing perfectly fine no thanks

Whilst possibly true, you completely ignore the fact that the other ships also get increased crew sizes. A sloop has four people, two on cannons, one steering and one bailing and repairing. A sloop going after a galleon period is ridiculous even now.

you forget that the galleon has 4 cannons on EACH side the sloop only has ONE cannon on each side the added crew to man cannons on a sloop hardly matters at all infact wont change anything at all

because the sloop can only use one cannon at a time while the galleon can use 4

currently using all 4 cannons means sacrificing jobs that needs tending like sailing or managing sails thats the drawback of using all four cannons

with 8 players that drawback wont exist and you can use the galleon's full firepower without sacrificing anything

Not to mention galleons can then also anchor turn while still being able to fire all four cannons meaning even if you do out manouver the galleon and position yourself behind the galleon they can just anchor turn

i know it sucks not being able to sail with all your friends schedual your sailings
one day you sail with some set of friends and the next some other set of friends ez solution to your problem

Alright, sorry guys, you aren't allowed to play today. Go find some other game to play with your friends...oh, wait...that was insensitive.

if someone gets offended over the words "sorry we're full today we can sail tomorrow if your down for that?" i don't know what kind of mindset your friends are using and i'd highly recommend finding new friends

@chunk-dvrer said in It's a chore to play with friends:

@wolfmanbush I don't think it hardly matters why they did it. There are tutorials on YouTube on how to do it. People are doing it.

People want larger crew sizes and someone has to look at that fact and make the change. Four man sloops are not obscene to ask for. I really don't see how 4 man sloop, 6 man brigantine, and 8 man galleon is too much to ask for.

The issue is those ships simply do not take that many people to run. Me and my friend get so bored on a sloop we upgraded to a duo brig for a challenge. You would also be making them way too OP. You are not taking any balancing issues into consideration.

Four on sloop? Why? What is everyone going to do? Literally takes only one person to sail that ship. A decent duo sloop is hard enough to take down, add two more who can solely be dedicated to boarding and good luck with that unless you have a large crew too.

If Rare were to even increase crew size would need new ships to balance and make sure its not too easy and OP like a four man sloop would be. It would be to be balanced properly. Eight people on a ship? Is that too much to ask for? Honestly yeah it just might be. Imagine being solo and having 8 players attack you? Having this happen on a regular basis. You may say "oh well" but the game isnt just about you and your friends. Rare would have to figure out a way to make the 8 main ship have some serious disadvantages.

Might just be a social butterfly, but I have 13-16 well-known friends who play this game and frequently run into situations where a fifth person will be available to join but be unable to play with us because we're already 4 manning a galleon. I understand balancing issues, and that I am likely a special case from most of what I'm reading in this thread, but I usually lament when games have hard limits on player counts for these situations. However, in any game this must either simply be accepted as to do otherwise might compromise the game's design. Not that this is always a problem. Modding singleplayer or cooperative game to make the experience you want is awesome.

Sea of Thieves, though, is different. In the simple way that in that it is an open world multiplayer sandbox where equality is the core design principle, but also in the more complex way in that player count restrictions are artificial. You can, with enough effort, take over an entire server for exploitive purposes and essentially break the spirit of the game. This practice is therefore naturally looked down upon by people who take the game more seriously. It not only invalidates one of the core design philosophies of the game; equality, but also cripples its minor systems like progression milestones and cosmetic rewards. Alliance server discussions are often intertwined with this one and a few others. It effectively allows anyone to participate in the PvE game of their dreams, and also allows them to play with more of their friends (though they are most likely usually strangers united in purpose). Of the two reasons for alliance servers to exist, the ladder is easily the less compromising to the game's design.

Hypothetically isolating this idea of simply wanting to play with more friends from the discourse of PvE servers and the malicious implications of abusing numerical advantage, it should be more than a reasonable ask. We can already sail with more than 4 people, but it is, as you said, " a chore". Players with the innocent desires to play with more friends are forced to accept this for the sake of balance or be bogged down by the shoddy methods of server hopping, and players who want to bend the game to the way they want it to be, or worse, players with malicious intent who want to ruin others times are granted the opportunity to do so despite the damage it does to the game's intended design. In singleplayer or cooperative games this would be fine, but as I said Sea of Thieves is different, and this can negatively impact the experience of others. So if the idea of having bigger crews is a reasonable ask on its own, and is also far less compromising compared to what is already being done by others, then what is the harm?

Well, obviously balancing. Skilled crews are already a great undertaking to sink on any size of ship. You may as well be throwing pebbles at a brick wall if you're up against 8 people on a standard sized galleon. 4 people on a sloop is an indestructible nightmare without very heavy handed tactics. No, it would have to be a new variety of ship and that is a whole discussion on its own. This also goes for the server problems I've heard of, as well as I'm sure many other complications that I literally have no clue about. I understand this would be a big undertaking.

Yet I hope it happens. There is an understandable demand for an increase in the player count. I believe this is an issue that can be overcome, and I think it will be at some point but just not for some time. Nonetheless there is a problem in the game's design. So long as server hopping is a problem, a pin should not be put into the idea of allowing players to freely play with whoever they want without restriction. Because people already can. And do. And it sucks.

You're really not understanding what people are trying to say are you?

The ships are designed to be managed by the crew sizes that are spec'd (2 Sloop, 3 Brig, 4 Gally). The crew sizes are so you can't physically do everything at once, thus meaning you have to priortise what you do at any given point.

By increasing the crew sizes, you're negating an intended design feature. You have enough crew to do everything without having to prioritise.

Lets take a Sloop v Gally - If you base the arguements purely on firepower. A sloop has 2 cannons but only ever has 1 in effective range during combat (unless it's a multi ship battle) whereas a Gally has 8 cannons, with 4 in effective range. @jollyolsteamed has already explained how the Gally crew can operate in these situations (2 on cannons/1 helm/1 sails+repair) so if we consider this an efficient approach, you're only going to have 2 out of the 4 effective cannons active at once (I.E. 20 Cannon shots before swapping/restocking). A sloop crew would consist of 1 on cannons and the other doing everything else.

Now if we consider doubling the crew size (as per your suggestion) - A Gally would not only now have all 4 cannons in effective range managed (40 cannonballs without swapping). If you consider that you only need 1 to manage sails and 1 on the helm, you now have 2 crew to spare. Now going back to the sloop, we've increased that crew to 4 off...yet there is still only 1 cannon in effective range so there is no increase in Firepower. Yes they have more crew to repair etc but with current knockback mechanic, if you're getting hit from 40 cannonballs relentlessly, you could have 10 crew repairing and they still wouldn't keep the ship afloat!!

It really isn't just as simple as increase all crew sizes and the balance remains the same.

In order to fit within the current balance of the game, any bigger crews would need a bigger ship. But this has been debated to death on the forums and it is percieved that anything bigger than a Gally, would be too slow, too difficult to sail and difficult to offset the number of cannons for balancing purposes, therefore wouldn't be viable to implement.

Also 5 Castaway accounts have replied all in favour of the OP? Most with little/no game time in SoT? Only post on the forums is in support of this? Looks a bit suspicious to me!

@injeopardy2000

1 Fighting a 1v2, 1v3, 1v4, 1v5, 1v6, 1v7 or 1v8 is significantly more difficult with each additional opponent. Anyone that claims a 1v4 is equally difficult as a 1v8 is simply factually untrue.

2 Ship design already is created with balance in mind to have a chance for smaller crews versus bigger ones. A galleon, brigantine or sloop all have their advantages and disadvantages based on their size to accommodate the crew advantages.

Yet a galleon is a powerhouse if manned properly by competent pirates, since the sheer numbers advantage is in their benefit. It requires the most teamwork, but it is the mightiest vessel on the seas. Each ship is designed in a way they thrive when fully manned, a smaller crew even a solo can handle themselves out on the seas and while it might be more challenging it is not impossible.

The fact is that Sea of Thieves like most games favor the bigger group. Simply increase the crew sizes means that the smaller groups will suffer. The bigger the discrepancy between crew sizes the less balanced it becomes. It is even worse if they simply allow more pirates on the current ships, it will literally become a battle of unsinkable ships.

This is a 1-4 player game, those that want larger groups or zergs are playing the wrong game.

eight pirates who will attack me and jump like monkeys in pants smeared with phosphorus, this is too much.
Soon I will be playing a tutorial mission instead of an adventure mode.

@chunk-dvrer

No my friend, it is you that is missing the point.

Firstly, SoT isn't a PvP game, it is a PvPvE game (completely different debate).

You state that a Galleon is 'a Beast of a Ship' which I agree with. That doesn't mean that it shouldn't be taken on by competent crews on other ships. It's almost like you're saying 'How Dare the game allow these smaller ships a chance?!'.

I fully agree that a Galleon as it stands outnumbers the cannons, that is basic maths. But you're struggling to grasp the concept of number of cannons and number of effective cannons. I also fully agree that the sloop is much more maneuverable and I'm fully aware of the tactics to escape/sink a galleon. I've played plenty of SoT since it was released to consider myself knowledgeable enough in the different tactics that each ship can use.

You say that people are opposed to this idea because we feel threatened by a larger galleon? No, we disagree because you're trying to adjust the game to suit Your requirements, creating an inbalance in the ship types. As it stands, a good crew on any ship has equal oppurtunity to sink any other ship.

This game doesn't thrive on PvP, it thrives on Player interaction (which are 2 completely different things!)

You've been given countless reasons why this wouldn't work in SoT, yet you continue to blindly ignore them.

Do you not think that after 3 years, if Rare wanted to add bigger crews, they would have done so already?

You touch on Hardware limitations. The reason there is only 5 ships per server is to allow people using older technology (Xbox One/Old PC's) to still enjoy the game. They are aware of a number of issues (such as Hit Reg) and have been working to try and fix them and thus can't invest any more technical resource into the servers! The team that produce the cosmetics is a completely different team (a basic understanding of game development would explain this).

I'll be frank. It sounds like you and your friends have very little experience in the game, can't be bothered to learn the mechanics and learn to be a good crew so have come to the forums to demand the game is changed for you by giving you the numbers advantage.

@chunk-dvrer

The ships are currently balanced based on their crew sizes, your suggestion will make ships unsinkable pretty much. As it currently stands each ship has its advantages and downsides, yet the game still favors those that are with more. A good galleon crew has nothing to fear from a sloop, even if they are sweaty competitive pirates. The fact is that the larger ships have the advantages already. Yet each ship stands a chance to fight if they please. There is no need to make it a pure numbers game.

You point out that PvP is an important part of the game. Therefore why should it be only available to those with the numbers? Don't you want opponents that with good play, smart choices and execution can provide a good fight or do you want a world where everyone just runs away from you and your group so you can PvE in peace?

There is one huge reason not to increase crew sizes and that is balance. You might like zergs and dominating pure with numbers, but that doesn't apply to us all. We like good battles, where each side has options and challenges.