Rare, your islands are wasted potential. Nearly all combat takes place on ships: bring the fray ashore! How about some tower defense? Crews holding off waves of AI (and players) from interrupting some secret ritual in the center of an island. Skellie ships docking in bays and unloading groups of skeletons, while players use land cannons and choke points to fend off hoards.
It would also be amazing to save an outpost from one of these attacks.
Yes! This is a fantastic idea that could really bring some life to the islands. Currently, skeleton combat on islands is dull and repetitive. The introduction of skellie ships that could dock and unload an army of skeletons is extremely interesting. Maybe they could attack during a specific type of quest that gave you more gold but would be difficult due to the skeletons. It would also be cool if you could board the docked shellie ship and take its treasure or supplies.
@tdogcrocky434 Yes! Love the idea of adding this to a specific type of quest. Imagine how much harder Vault Hoarders would be if three Skellie Ships appeared on the horizon?
And I would think you could totally board a skellie ship (after all, you can currently). I'm still waiting for Rare to give us the ability to control a Skellie ship by taking the helm.
@prescafatty this sounds like it would need to be its own separate mode and not part of adventure. And while a full pve mode like this could be interesting, I doubt that rare will devote any time to it after the pigsty that the arena is.
@Captain-Coel how do you mean? I envision it as an activated play style in Adventure Mode, similar to raiding Gold Hoarder vaults or fighting skeleton waves in forts.
I 100% agree that anything Rare develops from here on should be contained in Adventure Mode. But I see huge potential for them to integrate game styles like King of the Hill, Capture the Flag and more into Adventure play.
@galactic-geek said in Tower defense on islands:
Have you been at an active fort or Ashen lord? They got towers, waves, chokepoints, land battles, other pirate crews...
Yes of course I have. Have you ever played a tower defense game? It's completely different than either of those scenarios.
@prescafatty said in Tower defense on islands:
@galactic-geek said in Tower defense on islands:
Have you been at an active fort or Ashen lord? They got towers, waves, chokepoints, land battles, other pirate crews...
Yes of course I have. Have you ever played a tower defense game? It's completely different than either of those scenarios.
I have, and have always hated them. And the only thing different is that it appears to be the opposite, where we are defending a fort and the skeletons are invading. Except as is now, we are both attacking and defending simultaneously with skeletons in front and rival pirates at our backs.
Feels like a waste of resources making something like this. Land based activities are clunky, out on the sea is where things shine. I feel Rare should just stick with what they do best, ship based combat. Land is just lack luster in a game where boats have levels of depth in fighting. Those include Ship damage 2.0, bailing/planking, and fending of fire. There is no depth to land based fighting. Swing sword, fire gun, maybe shoot a cannon, and throw a fire-bomb is just very lacking in creativity.
@nabberwar I agree with your premise (land play is underwhelming), but not your solution (they should only focus on ships). Ship combat is great and highly addictive. If Rare focused on making land play awesome, the game would fire on all cylinders. I doubt they'll modify combat again, but they could offer more strategic options on land. Which chokepoint do you lure them towards? Do you use a land cannon, gunpowder barrels, or your ship? The game needs more land-based strategy and goals before it's truly cooking, but that's the work to be done!
If Rare focused on making land play awesome, the game would fire on all cylinders.
What makes land play fun is something that Sea of Thieves doesn't even have. It would take a really drastic change to fix that. Combat, excluding ship vs. ship combat, it just a joke. In my opinion, there is no foundation to build anything off. Sea combat does have that foundation to me it just makes sense to focus on what you do well.
Other games just make land play work, there is stakes to their games. Every land based activity in Sea of Thieves can ultimately be solved by throwing bodies at it. I'm not saying there is no other strategies, but that is more about efficiency than practicality. In SoTs you die, only to revive and go back at it. All it costs is time. At least with putting your own ship on the line, you add the possibility of failure.
I feel like there is other means to utilize islands but still keep boats involved. This is just a thrown out idea, but a giant land crab that encompasses most of an island. This requires ships to position themselves to bombard the land based threat. Make the crab summon pillar like obstacles that players need to sail around, or make players use their crows nest in order to climb on the crab to hit a highly placed weak point. Maybe they require players to cannon onto the crab to fight a person controlling the crab. Skies the limit
As long as players put their own boats on the line, you add tangible threat to the encounter. Without that risk, the game gets boring when you can solve the problem by just throwing bodies at it.
I'm hoping they might make some kind of 'wayfinder'-type voyage for Order of Souls in the future (GH and MA each have one, as well as better variety of quests) and this sounds like some form of it would be great as a final part of it (playing a similar role to emptying the cabin or entering the vault). My only observation is that it needs not to feel spammy, which simple hoard defence might. Work has taken it out of me today so I can't think exactly how I'd go about that, but it has potential!
Other games just make land play work, there is stakes to their games.
Exactly. 100% agree. Land play in SoT needs stakes. So picture this:
Blue crew must start a ritual in the center of an island to complete a quest. But they're under attack from red crew. Blue crew must decide what delay tactics to use. Do they put multiple people on the ritual to speed it up? Put one person on the ritual, have others guard choke points to defend? Do they sink red crew's ship first to keep them from spawning, then finish the ritual?
What does red crew do? Do they send wave after wave onto the island to try and break through the chokepoints? Do they cannon their crew to the center of the island, bypassing chokepoints (but potentially missing their target)? Do they sink blue crew's ship to deprive them of spawn points, at the risk of letting them finish the ritual?
Simple asymmetrical goals like this would give land-based combat the satisfying crunch it's lacking.
I feel like there is other means to utilize islands but still keep boats involved.
Boats will always be involved. They are your crew's spawn point, re-supply, and mobile artillery. No matter what kind of land-based play Rare develops, ships will always be part of the strategy.
Maybe they require players to cannon onto the crab to fight a person controlling the crab. Skies the limit.
This is honestly my highest hope for SoT: one day players can control a boss monster in a fight against the server. The chance for pirate legends to perform a ritual that transforms their crew into a crab monster, sea god, or hydra and then wrecks havoc, kaiju-style, across the seas is just too epic to hope for.
@prescafatty said in Tower defense on islands:
Rare, your islands are wasted potential. Nearly all combat takes place on ships: bring the fray ashore! How about some tower defense? Crews holding off waves of AI (and players) from interrupting some secret ritual in the center of an island. Skellie ships docking in bays and unloading groups of skeletons, while players use land cannons and choke points to fend off hoards.
It would also be amazing to save an outpost from one of these attacks.
you can do that now or when private servers come out
This is honestly my highest hope for SoT: one day players can control a boss monster in a fight against the server.
Just to clarify, my intentions were to clear an AI controlling the crab, not a person. I personally wouldn't want to see Sea of Thieves Kaiju fights, it just doesn't feel like that type of game.
@prescafatty said in Tower defense on islands:
@awsmstaccntname Nice, I look forward to checking it out. I hope Rare pulls all the best ideas from private servers into Adventure Mode.
Well, we wouldn't be able to have these custom setting games in normal game play. Lots of games like StarCraft and WarCraft had user map settings custom games created by the communities that were just as popular as the main game. One was even popular enough to become a whole new game genre (moba).
But it doesn't mean you can't take a break from adventuring or arena to play some custom games or the other way around. It's only a good thing for them to add these!
@prescafatty said in Tower defense on islands:
@nabberwar I agree with your premise (land play is underwhelming), but not your solution (they should only focus on ships). Ship combat is great and highly addictive. If Rare focused on making land play awesome, the game would fire on all cylinders. I doubt they'll modify combat again, but they could offer more strategic options on land. Which chokepoint do you lure them towards? Do you use a land cannon, gunpowder barrels, or your ship? The game needs more land-based strategy and goals before it's truly cooking, but that's the work to be done!
There is actually a lot of strategy in personal combat - most are just oblivious to how to use it, much less the finer aspects of the combat mechanics.
@galactic-geek That's probably true and I'm sure it applies to me as well. One thing I love about SoT is that brains and strategy can win against twitch reflexes. I'll probably never use the bunny hop to its full potential, but I can still sink an experienced crew.
Awesome idea. Not only does it bring life on Islands, it also brings a WIDE variety of strategy per island. Every island and Outpost is designed a certain way so it sort of makes set up and get a layout of whatever island you’re on.
Love the idea mate. Perhaps it could be a new style of play Intergrated in with the introduction of the Grand Maritime Union as a company we can work for. They setup their own huge brick Forts with choke points. That you must defend from invading hordes.
This would definitely fit in with the games architecture. Perhaps the skellies are fighting to get to the centre of the fort. Where they can then turn it into a skeleton fort. Raising a flag or completing a dark ritual at the heart of it.
Tower defense with four people, with 6-7 different areas they can enter from would be sick.
@nabberwar completely disagree with you. This would introduce way more strategy. Having to defend several points at once using all means necessary. Sounds like hella fun.
@nabberwar of course add the possibility of failure. Give the skellies a goal... control the fort/raise a flag/complete a dark ritual at the heart of the fort etc.
tower defense is built on time based objectives for both sides.
So if we add a failure point does it fix your problem?
@nabberwar sure. That sounds sick. I want that too.
But why shut down someone else’s idea in the meantime? We can have multiple nice things.
Perhaps the skellies are fighting to get to the centre of the fort. Where they can then turn it into a skeleton fort. Raising a flag or completing a dark ritual at the heart of it.
Love this idea! Pure gold.
@galactic-geek
Yes, forts are cool... but island combat sucks. Unfortunately forts being cool doesn't compensate for the fact that islands are boringggggggg.
@tdogcrocky434 said in Tower defense on islands:
@galactic-geek
Yes, forts are cool... but island combat sucks. Unfortunately forts being cool doesn't compensate for the fact that islands are boringggggggg.
Islands provide cover, concealment, multiple paths, high ground with great sightlines, and great loot hide-aways.
@galactic-geek
All of those things only matter if there are consistent threats on islands. It'd be nice to call other players consistent threats on islands but it would also be a lie.
@tdogcrocky434 said in Tower defense on islands:
All of those things only matter if there are consistent threats on islands. It'd be nice to call other players consistent threats on islands but it would also be a lie.
Agreed. Islands have everything they need to house some epic battles... if there was an incentive to fight on them.
