Possible solution to problematic pvp: Salvage/smuggling hatch

@r3d-eagl3s-fury An even better idea is to give players gold when they find the treasure so they don't completely lose their time and effort. That way pirates have stuff to steal and pve players won't lose their whole entire evening. Problem solved.

This just as silly as when players "Hide" loot on a ship...
when you can just sink the ship to get everything.

God no this is a terrible idea.
EFT has a similar mechanic with the Secure container and it is abused every day to achieve a no risk high reward style of game play.

All this idea is going to do is take every Athena chest out of the shared world. Same with the chests of tribute, ashen winds skull and just any high value item. Worse still, you could steal some high value item, stick it in your ships hidey hole, and now it is totally unrecoverable, that's not fun gameplay, that's just irritating.

All loot should be in play and at risk until you turn it in.

Possible solution to problematic pvp

Well you see, if you aren't a sore loser, PvP is no longer problematic.

You start out your post with a story of how players waste time if they don't succeed. This is a sore loser mindset, sorry not sorry. Just because you don't win, that doesn't mean you magically didn't have fun. Games are inherently time wasters, and Sea of Thieves never promised success in your endeavors. Its inherent to Sea of Thieves that you will get your loot stolen. Its all or nothing, that is what attracts people to this game. Plenty of people enjoy high stakes.

I'm just adding onto what @D3ADST1CK stated already. I don't think you grasp that the ability to hide away the high tier is a very big deal breaker. Look at an Athena Voyage, the Chest of Legend at the end is the sole reason to do that voyage. Honestly ask yourself, would you run an Athena voyage if it didn't reward that Chest of Legend? Without the inherent risk of losing that grand prize at the end, Athena voyages pretty much become risk-less.

Athena chests in general are worth more than the sum of all the rest of the loot purely on the basis of the large Reputation bonus. People woudn't even bother with those voyages if they didn't reward those final items. How about the highly rare Box of Wondrous Secrets? Its 25k, that certainly isn't chump change. Even a Gold Hoarders skull is 10k.

When it comes down to it, Piracy is a natural part of this game. What it isn't is an attack to ruin your experience. Stealing and getting stolen from is the nature of the beast. If people playing the game in a very natural way has this effect on you, might be time to take a long introspective look at yourself. Its only a game.

@r3d-eagl3s-fury i didn't even make it past the title. Pvp isn't problematic, it is part of the game's design. Trying to find ways to fix something that is not broken is insan

@r3d-eagl3s-fury I would agree to having some kind of fake/hidden stash on your ship, to hide/conceal loot from any boarder. But loot that's fully immune from plunder/sinking, no.

@r3d-eagl3s-fury I read it, as requested. It doesn't make pvp better, its a band aid for the bad players to keep a few key items. Do a fort stash the 4 stronghold items and dont care. How does that help anything?

Besides isnt there a megathread for this kinda thing?

@r3d-eagl3s-fury

Treasure is not yours until you sold it. Want to minimize your losses, just sell more frequently. Instead of trying to stock pile and hoard treasure, only sail around with as much loot as you are willing to lose. The thing is the only things you lose are those that you carry, you don't lose everything unless you take that risk and hoarded more than you are comfortable with... nobody can steal your gold, so cash in while you have the chance.

@r3d-eagl3s-fury

This it not the case. Pvp is not inherently problematic, losing isn't problematic, but I would say that losing everything is.

You are aware that their is a myriad of games that have equal and or greater stakes than SoT. Rust players lose their entire loadout on death and their base can be broken into and everything can be taken. All of that can happen when you are offline as well. Rust players don't find that problematic.

I've never played Elite Dangerous or EVE, but the stakes are even worse with players losing sometimes months to years of work in a short span. Eve and ED players don't find it problematic

Darkest Dungeon and Xcom also has all or nothing stakes. Character death is permanent with all equipment being lost if you party wipe. Darkest Dungeon and Xcom players don't find it problematic.

Just because you find it problematic doesn't make it problematic. Its a design choice, nothing more. Plenty of games have high stakes, Sea of Thieves is included within that list of games.

Wasn't Seasons really the answer to this? It doesn't require you to cash in anything, just play the game, and be rewarded with Gold, Doubloons, Ancient Coins, and Cosmetics (so, you know, all the reward types in the game). So, in essence, your night hasn't been wasted even if you don't get the big payout because you've still be rewarded for your play time.

On top of that we have Commendations that reward Doubloons, Events that reward Doubloons and Gold, emergent access to funds via finding Collector Chests that give you an on the spot burst of Gold and Ancient Skellies that get you Ancient Coins on the spot.

Loot is up for grabs. We have a number of systems in play now that make sure your general play can be rewarded. These don't really start drying up until your more experienced and have more hours in, and by that point you should be more comfortable and know some tricks to be ensuring your not having sessions where all your loot is lost.

this is an awful idea... sorry. it's a no from me.

@r3d-eagl3s-fury

The thing is this isn't rust. If I wanted the rust experience I would play rust.

You are right, this isn't Rust. However, its Sea of Thieves which makes losing all your loot the classic Sea of Thieves Experience. Its been this way for close to 3 years. Maybe its time to accept that.

Again, it's less about not wanting to lose it's more about having something to show for your night's work and still be fun for all parties involved.

Turn in more often then if you are so worried about having nothing to show for it. I've been robbed and lost it all at some point, I still have fun though. This just sounds like a you problem.

@r3d-eagl3s-fury said in Possible solution to problematic pvp: Salvage/smuggling hatch:

@redeyesith
this is probably the best response I've seen so far. you're right in that seasons does mitigate pvp losses a little bit by just playing, I just don't feel like it's very significant. That might be because I'm a legend and the little stuff you get from just sailing or whatever doesn't feel very rewarding. Also reapers get all those benefits too so it really isn't much consolation. I just wish that the stakes in a given session weren't so devastating at the end of an otherwise successful night.

You're right, it isn't significant if you're a Legend because you should be well past the point where this might be needed (but you get to benefit regardless), so it isn't really "for you" as it were. For new players, initial stuff you'll be going after cost a few grand, so getting 1000 Gold from just playing can be a significant reward. Worth more than most Loot you'll find doing Voyages at that level since it will be mostly Castaway and Foul Skulls and such at those low levels.

Reapers (or anyone else) getting those benefits has nothing to do with it. For one, Reapers can level through PvE (in fact, it feels like the bulk of them do these days based on how many tend to run) and Ships which aren't Reapers can attack other Ships. If the problem is supposed to be people not feeling like they didn't have their own session wasted, whatever is going on with other Crews is not a factor in that. Fact of the matter is, early on, this game is rewarding you just for playing all the time. By the point that drys up you should be well on your way to where you're turning in more than you're ever losing by a large margin.

If the goal is to make it so a loss isn't a loss, that just seems a bit silly to me. Losing is not the end of the world, and people should be able to handle losing a game from time to time. If they can't, a multiplayer game that isn't strictly co-op is probably not the thing for them - heck, most games probably aren't for them as in almost all games there is a potential to lose in some fashion (some are more forgiving than others, of course, but variety is the spice of life so I'm glad all games aren't a cookie cutter replica of each other).

Beyond this, though, as other rightly pointed out - Loot in this game is up for grabs, an no Loot is yours until you've cashed it in. Coin is yours, of all variety, and no one can take that from you once you have it (including what you find out in the wild without the need to cash in for it). But all Loot can be taken, and that is absolutely by design. You can lose it to players, you can lose it to PvE threats - simply, you can lose it.

And who knows, maybe somewhere down the road Rare will toss in even more ways to have assorted Rewards gained emergently further increasing the ways you can get some form of progress in your adventures no matter how badly the session might go. And every time they add a new way it just keeps on adding up (this is why, in part, some players have such an absurd amount of Gold/Doubloons on them and are begging for money sinks - in time we basically will all get there).

All in all, I think more people need to take a more relaxed mindset with this game and stop taking losses so personally and/or harshly. The way this game is designed losing has very little weight behind it once you really grasp what is going on with the game. The only way to make it really harsh is through personal choices (hoarding 4 hours of Loot on your Ship as is often described in complaint posts).

Sorry some folks around here get harsh about these things/kinds of suggestions. Generally it is from frustration of having to explain this over and over again that it gets tiresome and drives people to more harsh reactions (guilt of it myself at times).

@r3d-eagl3s-fury

Why should the impact of loss be mitigated? Isn't victory not so much better if you can actually lose?

Like seriously when did actually losing in a game become such a bad thing? In games we lose and they make those times where you win so much better.

@r3d-eagl3s-fury said in Possible solution to problematic pvp: Salvage/smuggling hatch:

Pvp is not inherently problematic, losing isn't problematic, but I would say that losing everything is. It's very disappointing and not fun.

Hi there,

Losing everything is problematic you are right. But that is the point; that we as players face problems that need solving and can sometimes (I know not always) be avoided. That is part of the risk of the game. The risk/event of losing everything is not fun...to you. But is clearly fun for others.

You are correct, however, that I would not do an athena's questline if it didn't end in a big reward, that's the point. You put in that effort for the reward not the risk of losing it.

So the game is built upon the premise that your treasure could be stolen. Some players no doubt thrive and love the adrenalin burst of having to get the heck back to somewhere to sell it. So I can see why it is getting flack. The thing is, people post here about this all the time. I'm a n00b but see a post almost everyday about it. Then, when people get negative/apathetic responses they take it personally.

This is because it has been addressed time and time again - even by the devs. "Problematic" events are totally in the spirit of the game.

If the stakes and risks associated with losing your night's work (or more in the case of rust, ED, ark, etc) is part of the spirit of the game for you then I can't change that.

No, it's isn't just in the spirit of the game for that one person, it is dictated by the devs/game blurb/code of conduct that it is in the spirit of the game and should be for any player. It is a fact that this mechanic is in the spirit of the game. But it might just be that it is you (and others) who is not in the spirit of the game when it comes to the subject matter. Dev's don't and shouldn't have to cater to someone who isn't in the spirit of it, because they didn't advertise an experience that is open to total interpretation to everyone.

The thing is this isn't rust. If I wanted the rust experience I would play rust. Again, it's less about not wanting to lose it's more about having something to show for your night's work and still be fun for all parties involved. That is how I feel the spirit of the game lies.

Well again, your feelings are not a factual representation of a universally recognised reality. Proof:

"Be a good sport. Sea of Thieves is a pirate game, and stealth, stealing and battles are all part of the fun. All pirates on the seas accept that, but be a good sportsman in both victory and loss." - Code of Conduct.

"People attacking other player's ship, and people stealing items off players and making their getaway and stuff, it's obviously, that's absolutely acceptable as part of Sea of Thieves, it's a shared world, its always been a shared world, it's always been the intent that there is gonna be risks when you are out there on the seas. And so that kind of player behaviour is absolutely within the spirit of Sea of Thieves." - Joe the Dev.

"Sea of Thieves offers the essential pirate experience, from sailing and fighting to exploring and looting – everything you need to live the pirate life and become a legend in your own right. With no set roles, you have complete freedom to approach the world, and other players, however you choose." - Taken from the Steam store.

I'm sorry but there is no ambiguity here and little room for attempts at dissonant interpretations that bend reality in order to suit our emotions.

It's not like I'd stop playing because of a bad night but it definitely makes it less fun.

Great - that's a wonderful attitude to have and more in the spirit of the game.

Last night I went out on a sloop solo and got a bit of treasure. Getting a bit bored, I noticed a 3 man Brig and thought, I'll try my luck while on my way to sell the chest I had which was one of those annoying crying ones. Worth a few bob I think. Anyway, on the move I managed to hit it with a chain shot and put around 5 holes in it, they fired a very good shot which hit me right in the kisser and I passed on to the ferryman.

When I came back there my ship was ok (aside from a cannon hole or two) and they were trying to get away, so I pursued them and saw them dump something in the sea (perhaps loot of a decoy) and managed to get on board, smacked one with my sword and again I expired lol. While boarding though, over the mic I said, hello lads, good game sort of thing and they were saying things like "you got guts taking on the three of us GG" and seemed to have enjoyed the little skirmish after a quiet day of looting - they laughed when they got rid of me again. It was quite funny.

So for them, the risk seemed to actually elevate their experience. Thus they were playing in the true spirit of the game, in the same way I was trying to do so too. My appearance no doubt got the adrenalin going (for me too) and was "problematic" for the crew until they got the upper hand. Fair play to them. It was...fun. :)

Suggesting that big quest items should have an option to be taken off the chopping block for pvp is not being a sore loser, but instead what I believe a quality of life mechanic that would make the game more fun for people doing quests while still rewarding for people into pvp.

I dunno man. Considering you already said that you wouldn't stop playing, this does sound pretty sore to me and making a mountain out of a molehill. If it isn't even a big of an issue to you where you will carry on playing, then it certainly cannot be that bad.

I completely get it though in terms of the frustration of losing loot, but a lot of this is based on the presupposition that when we "lose" (we all lose in the end lol) that we somehow "fail". That is not true, as each time we "lose" as long as we take something positive from the experience (for example, last night I stupidly boarded a crew of three - won't be doing that again!), and then apply it to our next session - there really isn't any failure at all. Just feedback.

I have said this before, but try not to take any responses to heart. It's clear that many people love this game a lot - you included of course - and want to preserve the experience they already enjoy and is advertised as a core part of the game. That shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

Cheers me arties.