Dropping of Emissary Flags at Sea

  • JayJayCannon
    Seafarer
    Insider

    So, my crew and I have had this happen a few times lately. Playing as reapers we chase someone down, they realize we're going to catch them, and minutes away from any outpost in the middle of the sea their Emissary Flag disappears.

    We figured out a way to do it. You have a brig or galleon with a new Emissary Flag. 1 person votes to drop the flag before you leave the outpost, then, far away from any outpost you have your crew that hasn't voted leave the game, the only person left has already voted and the flag goes down, even if nowhere near an outpost.

    This seems worse than the cowardly Shroud scuttling since they can do it anywhere on the ocean, and have their crewmates spawn back in to hopefully save the treasure (or more likely keep bucketing while the cowardly vessel zooms into the Shroud).

    I'd propose that a crew can vote down their flag mid-ocean, but that it floats in the water instead of disappearing, and the owner can't grab it. Then it shows with a beacon (like the Reaper Chests) for all players, and Level 5 Reapers also see it on their map. This balances things out a bit, some Reapers will happily grab the flag and go, but even more skilled Reapers will harpoon the flag, and still be able to chase the other ship. To make this proposal even better for the PvE crowd (but come on, this is an online multiplayer game) the flag has to be turned into Reaper's Hideout within 10 minutes for a multiplier (maybe 2x) or if it is not turned in on time a fraction (maybe half) of the value. Then for the PvE crew just trying to cache in their Vault Stash they are more likely to if they give up their flag, but the triple-stacked FOTD ship is still going to get chased because nobody should have allowed them to do it back-to-back anyway.

    I can't wait to hear the thoughts of others. Happy sailing.

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  • Lem0n Curry
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @jayjaycannon

    I'd prefer that flags can only be dropped or raised when the ship is in the same range as the voting.

  • JayJayCannon
    Seafarer
    Insider

    @lem0n-curry That would be the easiest "fix" for this I also think. The flag can't be removed until the ship and its voters are "in range" to vote, and have voted.

    I think the mid-ocean flag sacrifice might make for a fun alternative, especially if there were a time-based reward for turning in the sacrificial flag quickly. I like that it rewards the hunters, and gives the PvE players a chance to still hand in some loot.

  • Greengrimz
    Marauder

    The same method is used to raise an emissary. For Reapers it even has a name "stealth reaper" .

  • JayJayCannon
    Seafarer
    Insider

    @greengrimz Didn't know about the "stealth reaper". I guess that could be used to counter this (but not against the same players), but feels just as dirty. The change in Emissary status really needs to be locked into proximity to voting tables; not voting status of of remaining crew members.

    The same can be done with voted voyages, which I guess could also be used to install a Shroudbreaker right before someone nabs your boat near the NE corner of the map.

    The more I think about sacrificing a timed Emissary Flag though, the more I like it as a way to appease the PvE crowd a bit and not punishing PvP players with cowardly Shroud Scuttles and mid-sea Emissary vote-downs.

    Shroud Scuttling should always result in treasure and flags respawning within range of the PvP players. That nonsense needs to be done away with.

  • sdrewger
    Seafarer
    Insider

    @jayjaycannon @Lem0n-Curry
    I would like to suggest a system change in the entire voting system. Currently, the game determines the number of votes necessary for a flag raise or drop by CREW size instead of SHIP size.(same for voyage or TT voting and everything else). It does not matter if you are a two man group on a sloop, brig or gally, if both of you vote together it will be done. Basically, the number votes must exceed half of the crew size. I suggest it should depend on the ship size instead of crew size. This is practically the same thing but in addition to the current system it eliminates exploits like the one you are mentioning and also stuff like "stealth reaper". Here are the fixed vote numbers necessary in order to vote for anything(emissary flag, voyage, TT, etc.):

    1. If the crew is using a sloop: 1 Vote
    2. If the crew is using a brigantine: 2 Votes
    3. If the crew is using a galleon: 3 Votes

    These numbers are fixed, meaning it does not matter how many people are on the ship. The only thing that matter is the ship type the crew is using. Now crew members can't log off to reduce crew size in order to exploit these kinds of votings. In addition to that, this also eliminates the chance of soloing a brig or duoing a gally which are both not logical and also what the hell who does this?

    I believe this is a reasonable solution to reduce and maybe completely erase voting exploits and make the game as intended.

  • Schwammlgott
    Champion

    @jayjaycannon said in Dropping of Emissary Flags at Sea:

    The same can be done with voted voyages, which I guess could also be used to install a Shroudbreaker right before someone nabs your boat near the NE corner of the map.

    The Tall Tales work differently, you just need to have the checkpoint for the Shores of Gold and you can put it down to vote whenever/wherever you want...that's actually a valid tactic imo...
    But I really dislike the red sea-dumping all loot tactic...
    The flag upvote/downvote through leaving the game shouldn't be possible...I'd say when the ship is out of voting range, all votes should disappear

  • Greengrimz
    Marauder

    @jayjaycannon

    One could argue that's "smart use of game mechanics" just like dragging FoTD boss downstairs and obliterate him in 2 mins with cannons.

    But I do agree with you, it's dirty. Especially the cowardly stuff. Like someone else said, remove the possibility unless in outpost range, and problem will be solved.

  • Stundorn
    Castaway
    Insider
    Founder

    @jayjaycannon next exploit to cheese the Game , thanks for Sharing.

    Pirates need to utilize all possible exploits to counter Pirates using all possible exploits and call it skill.

    Thats what it unfortunatley is, Game the system to your Advantage.
    SoT was nit that Game , but make a guess who has started with this.

  • JayJayCannon
    Seafarer
    Insider

    @stundorn Sure, gaming the system to your advantage is fine when the system is designed for those things. But this greatly favors the prey in a predator/prey scenario, and if they are level 2+ in an Emissary then they also (the remaining crew members) still get the turn in experience and gold, without actually "handing in" their flag.

    No matter how people try to justify it, it is a broken game mechanic. You shouldn't be able to "sell" or "turn in" something while at sea.

  • JayJayCannon
    Seafarer
    Insider

    @sdrewger Yes, that also seems like a possible "simple" fix to the problem. You need the number of players to vote up/down anything that requires voting for a change in status.

  • Stundorn
    Castaway
    Insider
    Founder

    @jayjaycannon i dont use exploits by Principle.

    But just a day ago we had someone complaining people cheese it the other way to hoist the Reaper Just the Moment they arrived to make not every other emissary hop server. So both sides do it and its all because people focus in either PvP or PvE and dont play both aspects in a balanced way or Just like it happens , No everything needs to be tweaked, gamed, cheesed to your favor.

    For me this takes a lot away if i know amost everybody is somehow working around intended mechanics and trying to cheese it.

    Lame tbh and seems to be some Gamer stuff i never was into , although or maybe because i'm oldsql Player started already mid 80ies with CPC464/ C64.

  • JayJayCannon
    Seafarer
    Insider

    @stundorn Exactly. This is a problem in any direction! Silent Reapers are almost as bad; at least with those you can always be weary of other ships regardless of the flag they do/don't fly. But proximity and ship-size minimum votes seems like a way to fix both issues.

    Those early systems seemed like cool pioneers for their time. I'm glad you got to enjoy them.

  • PVEkilla420
    Ship Mate

    Me and my crew do this but the opposite! So we have one person vote for reapers...Then we sail around the map until we find someone with loot...we sink them... everyone but the person who voted rejoins...the reaper flag goes up and we get reapers rep on all the loot we just stole!

    Stops PVERS from running and selling as soon as they see a reaper...

  • Blam320
    Legend
    Insider

    @pvekilla420 said in Dropping of Emissary Flags at Sea:

    Me and my crew do this but the opposite! So we have one person vote for reapers...Then we sail around the map until we find someone with loot...we sink them... everyone but the person who voted rejoins...the reaper flag goes up and we get reapers rep on all the loot we just stole!

    Stops PVERS from running and selling as soon as they see a reaper...

    Or you could just not run a Reaper flag and turn in the loot to the reapers normally.

  • PVEkilla420
    Ship Mate

    @blam320 why would anyone choose less gold over more? Also we hope to get to lvl 5 so we can see all the other emissary ships and go for them too! Like the old saying goes.... Don't hate the player...hate the game...

  • PVEkilla420
    Ship Mate

    @stundorn

    SoT was nit that Game , but make a guess who has started with this.

    Any actual good PVPer... At the highest level of this game if you don't use exploits you wont survive... That is Human nature... Join us or lose to us but if you don't join then don't cry :)

  • JayJayCannon
    Seafarer
    Insider

    @pvekilla420 said in Dropping of Emissary Flags at Sea:

    Me and my crew do this but the opposite! So we have one person vote for reapers...Then we sail around the map until we find someone with loot...we sink them... everyone but the person who voted rejoins...the reaper flag goes up and we get reapers rep on all the loot we just stole!

    This is also a broken aspect of the game. You should be required to vote up/down onsite, not through crew shuffling.

    Stops PVERS from running and selling as soon as they see a reaper...

    I love playing as a reaper, but I don't expect that just because I'm a reaper that others should be prevented from cashing in. Being a reaper just gives you a reward for the PvP aspect of the game.

    I do agree that the cowards who flee to map's edges to prevent anyone from getting their loot needs to have a counter mechanic to it. I have another thread about front-facing cannons as an option (at the cost of some/all side-facing cannons) and boy is that getting the PvEers upset.

  • ajm123
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    I feel like people who vote down shouldn't be able to if another ship that's not in the alliance is near no matter what

  • JayJayCannon
    Seafarer
    Insider

    @ajm123 I'd agree with this unless they vote down at an outpost. If they make it there first and can get everyone on the island to the table fast enough to vote down the flag that's fair.

    This usually means they sacrifice the defense of their ship in order to keep you from their flag, which also means you can claim their treasure since they left it alone on their ship you can now easily sink.

    Plus this tactic usually requires running your ship into the dock putting holes in your ship and/or anchoring for a guaranteed sitting target, making it even easier for your ship to sink with your treasure on board just to protect your flag.

    This scenario seems balanced for predator and prey.

  • PithyRumble
    Sailor
    Insider

    People wouldn't know about it if people did come on the forums whining about a sneaky pirate tactic...

    How do you think tucking got started?

    Leave it alone. Sneaky pirate stuff like this needs to be left in the game. I mainly solo so it doesn't help me lol

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