SOT ARENA VOICE CHAT UNBAN

  • ClutchCosine556
    Rogue

    I left some words unfinished because of the way they are received

    Hi pirates from all sects. I am here to respectfully propose the unban of Arena voice chat. Whether you are a committed 3% Arena player or a 97% player in adventure, I think we all know the importance of voice chat and its importance in games like sot and before sot. Let me begin. There is a close compact community in the arena and many players use voice chat as their main communication within this community. Never would I have thought the game I love so dearly would remove one of its most beautiful aspects. I think now where would I have been without voice chat in arena and who would have showed me the way of the sword jump. Who would have taught me the double gun techniques? Who would have taught me to train on the bell for practice? How would I have found my dear humorous arena teammate? Who would have spawn camped me and then laughed at me when I cried hacks because I was being killed mercilessly? How would I have turned out if I had just tuned out everyone who was better than me and just decided who cares I am not willing to work hard enough for people I do not even know plus I bet they don't even care or are willing to help me anyways; They can't hear me and I can't hear them and so there is no community. I sit back and look back on all the fond memories of people I met and people I helped from my experience which was gained from people who shared their help to me from their experience. I remember a British fellow who was telling me stories of their life working in government and how he encountered comical interactions with certain ambassadors/government officials. The same man who told me the struggle of drug addiction and how it took his wife from him and everything he had has a soul. And who could forget?! The French-speaking combo arena players who were trying their best to communicate in a very broken English to help me win in a arena game because I did not understand they were of a higher status and did not need the win. Oddly enough as it is I never did get that win. And yes yes yes I know! I know! I'm using a lot of pathos in my argument but I fail to bring up solutions or rebuttals so allow me to shift to the logos&ethos side now but I hope you were able to take away how my heartfelt love for this game came to be.
    Many bad things happen in arena, and I can agree that regulation in some format is beyond the concept of acceptable. However, just because a problem exists, it does not give reasonable action to burn the whole ship down. Let me remind you many good things happen in the arena as well. For starters, players who are just starting out in Arena have a built in community around them with voice chat and can instantly talk and communicate with pirates around them. That is huge to a game like sot. Sot game chat in arena is also used to ask for for accommodation execution, cosmetic advice, and game mechanic advice. Whether you like it or not there is good in the voice chat. If we see a middle-class married family man who is considered a menace because of his drinking problem shall we in return kill him to remove the threat? Has he not provided for his children? Has he not contributed to the economy/society during his time in the workforce? Is this the way we deal with problems nowadays? That is speaking in terms of voice chat in a single entity, let me be clear because trust me I know voice chat is a group of many different people; some considered more "toxic" than others. Let's look at voice chat as a group of people charged with the crime of "toxicity" also let us label toxicity illegal despite my feelings against that notion. If some are innocent and some are guilty but all are charged and convicted guilty then we have no real justice from the sot team. Instead I offer a solution which is a sign or message that promotes the feature to mute other crews if they hear something they dislike or feel uncomfortable hearing while others can listen if they do not find it "toxic" or unpleasant. As we all know at this point in society; Toxic is a subjective term and often finds its own usage hypocritical.
    I also would like to rebuttal the alternative community building choices like Looking for group posts or discord servers. Discord servers because they are usually after the fact you met and talked to people in arena and were given a invite to their club. Looking for group posts because the same "toxic" or peaceful encounters can occur based on chance so you might as well ban LFG posts as well. As well as the fact these are external community building tools that all players may not be aware of which does not give them a fair share in the community building process.
    Finally, I would like feedback from the sot team and the community as a whole. I would appreciate other points of the argument and other rebuttals. My final thoughts on this is the world has many bad moments and good moments. So do not destroy the whole world instead find the just and reasonable solution to fixing it. Killing voice chat just because you have bad in it is not a fix but it shows you avoid accepting reality. It's actually giving in to laziness and a unwilling behavior to find a suitable reasonable solution. Thank you sot team for this game and all your efforts and I apologize if I came off too harsh but I am very passionate about arena and so I plead with you to bring arena voice chat back. Let me finish with saying I wouldn't have made this post if I had no faith the sot team might look at it and give it some thought.

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  • GrumpyW01f
    Legend
    Insider

    Great post. The 97% mostly just ignore the compromise ideas and go back to arguing why burning the whole ship down is a good thing.
    The (Y for Xbox, R for PC) button is only used to load yourself into the cannon. couldn't it be a Mute all toggle button in the arena tavern?
    Couldn't everyone be muted by default and let ones who want voice chat, keep it?
    Couldn't there be a prompt talking about how you can encounter more toxicity in the arena and showing noobs the mute all feature?
    Then the 97% ignore things like that and say something like "why do we need cross crew chat in arena in the first place" like a compromise wouldn't fix the problem and keep arena in a better place.

  • TheBlackBellamy
    Champion
    Insider

    @grumpyw01f said:

    Couldn't everyone be muted by default and let ones who want voice chat, keep it?

    alt text

  • ClutchCosine556
    Rogue

    @grumpyw01f Amazing reply thank you. those points and solutions are right on the money. we are the minorities in this situation so its tough when we are pushed down and no one cares how we feel. the solutions you offered are insanely good and I really liked the idea of the keep it off by default but switch if you want to use it. the best compromise idea i think is possible is what you came up with.

  • D3ADST1CK
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    What if I told you that currently everyone is muted by default and the UI is disabled, but you can unmute and still hear the other players? The keybind still works.

  • TheBlackBellamy
    Champion
    Insider

    @d3adst1ck
    alt text

    I wonder if this was purposefully left in, and if not, how long it'll stay. I do wish that the menu allowed you to enable it, but I guess I'm fine with a workaround.

    Yay exploits.

  • One Eyed Curly
    Master

    Well written and argued, there is certainly a lot of positive interactions that occur through voice and text chat and it saddens me how some people allow the negative experiences to overshadow that. I wonder what the internal discussions around this issue sounded like within Rare and how this action came to be taken? I am not aware of any community consoltation around this issue, which does damage the relationship between Rare and their player base especially those who enjoy Arena, by apparently deciding that we are not worth the trouble anymore. I'm not sure how much this change will affect my own interest in playing Arena, as the voice chat can get a bit much at times, I just don't see this as being a positive for the community as knowing that there are real people on those other boats plays an important part in creating that.

  • Lukadra
    Commander
    Insider

    @d3adst1ck
    I would say something along the lines of:
    another great "fix"

    Seriously though, I can understand why they disabled voice, but it still should be an option. If someone is throwing slurs at others or being toxic, record a clip, report, mute(if you really want to) and move on. It should still remain up to Rare and Msoft to get rid of these kind of players and i feel like this is just saying they still want to have them around.

    edit:
    Maybe we should start reporting people for good interactions too since they only have data available for the bad ones? I'ts easy to forget that often the negative gets all the public attention and positives remain only private since a lot less people make threads/posts about those.

  • Stundorn
    Castaway
    Insider
    Founder

    @lukadra sagte in SOT ARENA VOICE CHAT UNBAN:

    It should still remain up to Rare and Msoft to get rid of these kind of players and i feel like this is just saying they still want to have them around.

    Hippocrits all over.
    I say dont close your eyes, dont be afraid, do not ignore hate, but nip it in the bud.
    I have zero tolerance for these gamers.
    I also have zero tolerance for exploiters!

  • Foxdodge
    Champion
    Insider
    Boatswain
    Founder

    The whole thing just makes me think of this.

  • Stundorn
    Castaway
    Insider
    Founder

    @foxdodge Drama sells, no?!

  • HooHoCoach
    Castaway

    @d3adst1ck said in SOT ARENA VOICE CHAT UNBAN:

    What if I told you that currently everyone is muted by default and the UI is disabled, but you can unmute and still hear the other players? The keybind still works.

    Right that shouldnt be a thing, LOTS of players dont know about that and plus it should be the other way around. Everyone should be unmuted be default and be able to mute all crews which they could do before. But everyone was to busy crying on the forums and reddit to realize what a mute button was.

  • HooHoCoach
    Castaway

    Im actually really impressed by this clutch. As someone who uses gamechat 24/7 I remember when my game chat would not work and I couldnt speak in game. There were hundreds of moments I wish I could, whether it was to be toxic or be friendly. I hope more attention gets brought to this because its probably the most intelligent "Remove no game chat pls" posts I've read.

  • GrumpyW01f
    Legend
    Insider

    @D3ADST1CK Wow.

    @one-eyed-curly Rare sadly doesn't get to see many of the positive interactions that go on in Arena. All they see is the huge amount of toxicity reports. One of the reasons that they went ahead and made this change I think is because Insiders are turning into no more than glorified glitch hunters. In previous months, it felt like Insiders could change the course of an update if they banded together. Well, me and many other Insiders argued against removing cross crew chat in Arena, and we gave many compromises like the ones in my original post above. But, as I said, the 97% either drowned us out or Rare didn't want to listen. Insiders want to help shape the game again.

    @HooHoCoach Now that they've made a change to arena this drastic, they won't reverse it completely. Plus, even though we want cross crew chat back, there still has to be an answer for the huge amounts of reports they get from arena. All we have left is to appeal for a compromise, I think.

  • TheBlackBellamy
    Champion
    Insider

    @grumpyw01f said:

    even though we want cross crew chat back, there still has to be an answer for the huge amounts of reports they get from arena.

    I wonder how many of these reports were even warranted.

    I like the competitive nature of arena but I want to keep my game clean, so I've definitely reported players for slurs in the past. But then there are also people like this that make me wonder how many times people are reported for benign offenses. Some might think it's toxic to "bucket", or use emotes to showboat after a kill. I've been messaged by players that I was reported for toxicity when I didn't even use pirate chat, let alone voice or text.

    I've mentioned this in another thread, and I've seen others bring it up as well; but in one hour of playing arena, you're going to have more PvP exchanges than you would in playing one hour of adventure. This also means the possibility of more emotes, more bucketing, more *Rolls on deck laughing *, more competitive banter, and unfortunately more actual toxicity.

    If Rare doesn't want to spend any time sifting through reports to see what is actually toxic and what isn't, then that is their business decision. That shouldn't stop us from pointing out that the default muting was a lazy decision, and does more harm to arena than it does good.

    This workaround isn't really a compromise, as it may just be an exploit and may eventually get patched out. It's great for people who know how to do it, but it really should be possible through the menu.

  • D3ADST1CK
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    @lukadra said in SOT ARENA VOICE CHAT UNBAN:

    Seriously though, I can understand why they disabled voice, but it still should be an option. If someone is throwing slurs at others or being toxic, record a clip, report, mute(if you really want to) and move on. It should still remain up to Rare and Msoft to get rid of these kind of players and i feel like this is just saying they still want to have them around.

    That is what people were doing. It was generating so many reports that Rare decided to just eliminate chat. This isn't a method of stopping toxicity, it is a method of removing half of the workload of the support team that was centered around a game mode they aren't supporting anymore.

  • JadeScissors32
    Castaway

    @theblackbellamy Considering how many people on this very forum are salty abut losing in the game, I would guess many reports were just salty people complaining.
    I am starting to think disabling voice/chat is actually not a bad thing. It takes away from salty pirates.

  • StormySeaDog
    Lord
    Insider

    @d3adst1ck said in SOT ARENA VOICE CHAT UNBAN:

    What if I told you that currently everyone is muted by default and the UI is disabled, but you can unmute and still hear the other players? The keybind still works.

    This is true and confirmed.

  • JadeScissors32
    Castaway

    @stormyseadog Woahhhhhhhhhhh ???? Runs to PC....... stand by

  • JadeScissors32
    Castaway

    @stormyseadog Yup it works. That is hilarious.

  • ClutchCosine556
    Rogue

    @d3adst1ck I love that this is true. And I'm glad that it is a temporary fix for players who are not new to the game. However, I'm fighting for the future of this game's Arena community. I'm fighting for future pro navalers and future pro tdmers. I'm fighting for those players in the stages when they are new and do not understand what to do. Simply put, I want them to have a community around them and I want a fair one. I want one that does not require some special trick or exploit to talk to others. I want every player to have a piece in the pie.

  • ClutchCosine556
    Rogue

    @jadescissors32 I do not follow how it "takes away from salty pirates" sorry. Can you elaborate on what you mean by that?

  • ClutchCosine556
    Rogue

    @stundorn Again here I completely dumbfounded by this post. Can you explain that beautiful work of poetry to me?

  • ClutchCosine556
    Rogue

    @foxdodge That is hilarious foxdodge. It does actually feel like that.

  • StormySeaDog
    Lord
    Insider

    @jadescissors32 said in SOT ARENA VOICE CHAT UNBAN:

    @stormyseadog Yup it works. That is hilarious.

    It is the best when others figure it out!! They are like wow.

  • Ocean Santa5827
    Ship Mate

    Im personally overjoyed cross crew chat is gone.
    It was so incredibly toxic. Now it's just really chill and nice to join Arena.

    I played Arena ALOT everyday with my friend to farm out the skins and whatnot and to just generally get better at combat.
    Every lobby and during the fights ppl were trashtalking, mostly in lobby tho.
    Insults thrown around. Calling names for how you play the game.
    If you don't TDM you're a bot etc.
    In general Arena lobby was a very unpleasant experience.

    And there was also common that ppl teammed up.
    I was solo doing Arena once and a random enemy joined my sloop and shot and repaired for me.
    Also faced 2s sloop where 3-4 ppl were on a sloop etc.

    So this is a VERY welcome change, thank you rare.
    Theres literally 0 reason for you to chat with enemies.

    Im not reading OPs wall of text, with 0 effort put in to splitting it up to make it more readable.

  • JadeScissors32
    Castaway

    @clutchcosine556 Sure. What I mean is that salty pirates who claim others are doing targeted harassment by teaming or spawn camping, now have no leg to stand on.(so to speak)
    With out chat, voice communication other team has no idea what is going on so simply is following guidelines put in place by Rare and those have nothing about teaming and spawn camping.

    You can't arrest Deer for jaywalking because Deer has no concept of the traffic law.

  • Foxdodge
    Champion
    Insider
    Boatswain
    Founder

    @ocean-santa5827

    Theres literally 0 reason for you to chat with enemies.

    What about good sportsmanship?

  • Ocean Santa5827
    Ship Mate

    @foxdodge said in SOT ARENA VOICE CHAT UNBAN:

    @ocean-santa5827

    Theres literally 0 reason for you to chat with enemies.

    What about good sportsmanship?

    Im not following here. What is it that you need to tell your enemies in order to play with "good sportsmanship?"
    A gg?

    I don't see that as enough reason to bring any cross crew chat back.

    I think i'll take silence over the usual "trash bot player."
    "noob chest farmer." or whatever else ppl bring up when someone wins.

  • Foxdodge
    Champion
    Insider
    Boatswain
    Founder

    @ocean-santa5827 People I fought with in the Arena weren't my enemies, they were my rivals, and I treated them as friends.

  • JadeScissors32
    Castaway

    @ocean-santa5827 Not sure who came up with "n00b chest farmer" but that is brilliant.

    Rare please add that to the message wheel. I want to be able to spam that in session.
    I am wiling to pay 100 ancient coins in Emporium for that. :)

  • Ocean Santa5827
    Ship Mate

    @foxdodge said in SOT ARENA VOICE CHAT UNBAN:

    @ocean-santa5827 People I fought with in the Arena weren't my enemies, they were my rivals, and I treated them as friends.

    Okey i don't really care what you see them as. Either way theres no need to be able to talk to them ingame.
    You're in a competitive fight, against eachother.
    Generally in multiplayer pvp games, such as Arena, you generally don't sit and talk with them.
    And i highly doubt every random person you find in there, is your friend.

    Also Arena is not open adventure, where you sail around and bump into eachother.
    You're in an ARENA to fight eachother. Adding communication to other teams within that doesn't really add anything.

    @jadescissors32 said in SOT ARENA VOICE CHAT UNBAN:

    @ocean-santa5827 Not sure who came up with "n00b chest farmer" but that is brilliant.

    Rare please add that to the message wheel. I want to be able to spam that in session.
    I am wiling to pay 100 ancient coins in Emporium for that. :)

    Ye really creative insults, they took an objective of the game and added "noob" and "farmer" around the word, probably took them many days to figure such genius out.

  • dlCHIEF58
    Champion
    Insider

    @foxdodge said in SOT ARENA VOICE CHAT UNBAN:

    @ocean-santa5827

    Theres literally 0 reason for you to chat with enemies.

    What about good sportsmanship?

    Perhaps Arena players should have actually done that instead of racking up 50% of the toxicity reports when only accounting for less than 3% of the total playtime. Then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

  • JadeScissors32
    Castaway

    @dlchief58 I kinda doubt all those longtimers at Arena were responsible for "Toxic" reports, most likely those where filled by freshly baked noodle swinging PVE legends with attitude that Arena players will be pushovers just like those island spawning skeletons.
    Thats where shock sets in.

  • dlCHIEF58
    Champion
    Insider

    @jadescissors32 said in SOT ARENA VOICE CHAT UNBAN:

    @dlchief58 I kinda doubt all those longtimers at Arena were responsible for "Toxic" reports, most likely those where filled by freshly baked noodle swinging PVE legends with attitude that Arena players will be pushovers just like those island spawning skeletons.
    Thats where shock sets in.

    LOL, whatever lies you need to tell yourself in order to sleep at night and justify your campaign. You doubting the facts does not change them, the Arena generated a hugely disproportional amount of toxicity reports to play time and it is foolish of anyone to think that those came from "PvE Legends" that would have never set foot in Arena to begin with (hence the low population and playtime). It came from people who play the mode....which are mostly PvP focused if not mistaken.

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