I don't think we need to consider any of this unless they actually close the Arena. It's going to remain open, it just won't get any further updates. Removing things from Arena will just end up with even less people playing it.
Sea Dogs In Adventure
Following the recent SoT update video, where Joe Neate informed us that Arena would no longer be getting any further updates, it brought about the question of what will happen to the game mode, and the playerbase that still tries to play it. (Among other questions I am sure).
I have seen an uptick in thread providing suggestions about what could be done to revive the game mode, many pointing out the smaller player base, the general imbalanced game modes, the long wait times, and the general combat issues tied more specifically to arena. While I don't wish to call them fruitless, it is safe to say RARE has made there final decision regarding the game mode, if nothing else for the time being.
I admit this does not affect me so much. I am rarely played Arena even during its OG game mode, let alone its current form, mostly due to the current problems, and despised it during the "Courage" Event even more so, because it showcased how the progress of commendations is even more imbalanced due to the issues in Arena.
This however, brings me to a topic at hand. With Arena getting no further updates, and the overall player base not engaging in Arena, or at least not consistently, as well as the shift in focus being strictly on adventure; would it be possible to have some aspects of the Sea Dogs added to Adventure?
One of the things Sea dogs tried to solve in the early days of the game was PVP, but in an ironic fashion the Reapers Bones and Emissaries did this a lot better. I think Sea Dogs could have a place in Adventure. On the one hand most of their commendations focused on PVP, while Reapers bones focuses on stealing treasure through PVP, but otherwise offers no real reward for the PVP alone.
Sea Dogs could have progress tied to Adventure very simply:
Killing players or sinking player ships, could increase your reputation in the Sea Dogs.
Killing player or Sinking an absurd amount of players as a Pirate legend would unlock the Pirate Legend weapons, that are currently locked to Arena.
Killing players or Sinking ships while not a Pirate Legend could lead to unlocking the Standard Sea Dog outfits.
Killing players or sinking ships while wearing the Sea dog items or liveries would allow you to work towards unlocking the Triumphant Sea dog sets (which I point out the shovel works this way already in Adventure for Digging up chests).
You could add an Emissary flag that could be tied to killing players, or sinking ships, as a Sea Dog, with bonuses tied to sinking Reapers.
An Emissary Costume specific to the Sea dogs could be added for more cosmetic gold sinks.
You could add a Voyage or emissary voyage that includes both the old and current Sea Dogs chest, which you can turn in to to the Sea dogs hide out, for Sea dogs rep. Heck you could even keep the sea dogs beacon on the current chest, while still having the old brown chests from before.
You could also add the Sea Dog Arena Ships as cosmetics to the Ship dock store, allowing again for more diverse cosmetics items to players to purchase, and having more cosmetics for a gold sink.
The point is there are options to ensure that the Sea Dogs alliance, does not become forgotten in the overall lore and world of Sea of Thieves, and does not need to (with respect) keep it tied to an unsupported game mode, with a sadly ever growing smaller playerbase (no offense I'm just calling it as I see it). I mean lets face it the Sea Dogs Tavern needs to be marked on the Map, and needs to be used for more than just an outpost where you can at most, run through a platforming obstacle course. . . . .
In a strange fashion this might even peak interest to the Sea-Dogs Arena in the future, as newer players practice there PVP skills in Adventure through a more focused commendation set, and thus it could potentially revive the Arena later (though this is pure speculation).
IDK, its just some food for though. All I know is, my SoT experience is not affected by Arena being unsupported, but I have to acknowledge that in so doing, there are a number of commendations, and cosmetics that (in a fashion) are about to become that much harder to obtain and not for the reasons they should be. Plus it would at least make having a Sea Dog letter of Recommendation make sense in Adventure.
I don't see this ever happening, simply because Rare don't want to encourage pure PvP play in Adventure. There's no matchmaking, so it's never a level playing field, and all it would do is increase the calls for PvE servers.
Perhaps the solution, which I have suggested before, is a "Hardcore Adventure" mode separate from the normal Adventure. Perhaps only available as an option to Pirate Legends. Both would be PvPvE but a faction like Sea Dogs could be exclusive to the Hardcore servers. It could also offer PvE threats with greater difficulty... like the original megs and kraken.
Its an win IMO when they carry over the arena commendations to Adventure like kill x ppl with this weapon or land 1000 cannonball shots with the glorious sea dog cannon! And they must bring the Legendary Weapons to adventure maybe locked behind kill 500 ppl with blunderbuss so you get the legendary blunderbuss and so on!
@chronometria Thats sort of my issue. Let me be clear, I am NOT against the idea of putting those weapons behind a challenging commendation with a modest grind, but the issues with Arena make it an arbitrary grind that is more about luck rather than skill or dedication.
With the game mode not being supported, it makes this arbitrary grind even longer or (potentially) impossible for some. These Weapons, and indeed now many of the commendations, are becoming harder to obtain not because of a lack of skill or dedication from the Arena Playerbase, but due to the lack of interest and now, lack of support in Arena as a mode. (Hence my overall suggestion of moving aspects of the Sea Dogs to Adventure, to ensure they dont remain "digital dust" so to speak.)
And in fairness, I don't just mean this for the Legend Weapons, I do in fact mean this for many if not all of the commendations for the Sea dogs. (The legend weapons are certainly the more notable, but not the sole thing affected, as I pointed out in my OP)
Arena will get no attention and its ever-dwindling player base will continue to shrink. I predict Arena will eventually be shut down once it looks like they're investing in server resources for something their players aren't using. I think we can all say that Adventure is where it's at, even though I do like Arena.
When that happens, I'm not sure how they could work this into Adventure as they already have a PvP trading company in Adventure mode. I'm sure they'd implement some way to earn the Glorious Sea Dog stuff and Legendary Weapons.
@chronodusk A logical conclusion to be sure.
Following the recent SoT update video, where Joe Neate informed us that Arena would no longer be getting any further updates
You said it in the first sentence. No need to type your whole 5k word essay. You stated your answer at the start. you proved this against yourself.
Cant wait to get the cosmetics easier and in a fun way than playing this mess of Arena.
That might be the worst idea I've ever seen in the forums. Easier? Fun? I try not to be a pvp/arena elitist but my god dude. If you think arena is hard or not fun, then you're playing arena wrong. The legendary weapons are arguably the best looking items in-game atm, why the hell would you want something like that to be easy to get?w
I disagree in all points.
What is best looking is individual.
Arena is not fun to me, its boring and dull.
I understand where you coming from : ultimately if the game mode get flush down the toilet they should reuse the Sea dog in the adventure mode. They are a nice faction and it would be a shame to let them sink alongside the Arena.
That being said, I would not want to see commendations that entice Spawncamping or blind agression makes its way into the main mode.
The glory theme could be emphasised more tho. Maybe with an emissary flag that is worth double when stolen (and visible on the map) while scaling the PvE difficulty at the same time. Alongside a requisite of a lvl 5 emissary to be able to sell loot to them. Making the Sea Dog faction the hard mode of SoT and a pvp beacon.
Rare could revamp the commendations tied to the items (with new titles) while keeping the current titles tied to Arena as a token to those who played the Arena mode (as in a time limited reward).
I gave up on Arena due to getting 30min+ wait times for a single game on PC. Then when you are in game people are just attempting to spawn camp each other to get commendations which does ruin the fun aspect of the arena.
If the Sea Dogs Faction were to be implemented into adventure I would expect it to at least have the potential to encourage PvP and possible some new PvE. They could use a similar mechanism to Reapers Bounties where everyone can see the Sea Dog Treasure on the map but only crews running the Sea Dog emissary can gain reputation for turning it in. Maybe even add ai ships that specifically spawn on Sea Dog emissaries to add more of a challenge. Even the Battle of the Sea of Thieves could be a Sea Dog event. Anything that is challenging and not a walk in the park while encouraging naval combat is ideal.
If it adds some fun new content to Adventure mode I don't see why anyone would be against it.
@stundorn So what is fun and exciting to you? digging chests? Delivering cargo? fighting skeletons? Once you've maxed your faction rep out and you;ve actually played the game for a while, maybe you'll understand.
Also, pretty much everyone who plays arena(along with most everyone I've talked to) agrees that the legendary weapons are joint best in the game, and you probably disagree because youre not able to just do some quick quests to unlock them.
I feel like there are dozens of other options that could be explored within the same line of thinking.
For example, I've always wanted a place where crewmates can sail and vote with their daggers the same way as a voyage to start a temporary inter-crew fight with friendly fire turned off. There could even be multiple tables, allowing for up to 6 teams of 4 pirates, without having to back out of the game and join on another ship to change teams. Most simply put, The Sea Dogs could host TDMs.
And that's just one of the other options that could bring them into Adventure mode.
@john-arkham I understand your point on the "Blind Aggression". I have often spoken about my desire for a more centralized PVE experience, but have never been anti-PVP, hence my broad look at the Sea Dogs with the conditions now occurring with Arena Development (or lack there of).
At this point any idea could be worth looking into to ensure there retention. Even as just a more "civil" Rival to the Reapers (from a Lore stand point at least).
I know PVP is a "touchy" subject at best when it comes to explicit rewards and gains for it without Loot being involved. My suggestions at best were merely to keep in the Spirit of the Faction. Still a potential commendation overhaul would be needed regardless of direction.
@piratecrob Incorporating the Ai for the Sea Dogs, and adding in the Sea Dogs Treasure. . .
An interesting idea at least, and it would be cool to see more AI Fleets (even if its just a themed Redesign) return to the 4 Areas of the Map.
I actually like the idea of retaining the Arena Beacon chest as sort of an alternative to the Reapers Chest. perhaps even returning the Brown Sea Dogs chest as lower tier variants. The overall concept is that the Reapers are against the Pirate Code right (founded by Wanda!) and the Sea Dogs would be sort of the Direct Opposite, who support the Pirate Code while still encouraging battle with Honor, while the Reapers do not. (Sort of a Yin Yang Concept).
@abehr I am not against the idea of a "Request to PVP" system within crews. Its certainly not unheard of, practically EVERY MMO that exists has some sort of Duel system, where a brief PVP instance is activated upon agreement.
I play since alpha , Founder tag.
Yes i would even play without any levels i'd instead prefer to even have no horizontal progression!
Im year one Legend and i was Athena 10 before Anniversary Update and i was maxed in all Factions except reapers before Summer. Reapers 75 i got end of Last year .
I dont Play Alliance Servers i Play regular solo and with Crew for almost 3 years .
Nothing Spoiled nothing cheesed , i even have Hunter of the Shrouded Ghost title and Most commendations complete ..
So what i'm going to understand ?
I'm playing Videogames for around 36 years now.
Things you mention arent of my interest .
I see people saying just play arena for commendations and unlockable loot but they fail to realize or ignorantly choose to ignore the fact that arena isn't the same as it used to be in terms of predicted time for the commendations and loot.
Arena player base was undoubtfully larger when it first released and it took less time to get into games and games rarely had spawn camping strategies being used.
Currently, on PC, it is usually 30 minutes before you get into a game and most games are people attempting to spawn camp to get commendations. The Spawn camping for commendations seems to be a result of the high wait periods for games and people wanting to get the commendations as efficiently as possible without investing time into waiting in lobbies doing nothing.
Arena used to have roughly a 5-10 minute wait time between games when it had a healthier player base. Now having roughly 30 min wait times on PC, you can calculate estimated time invested for rewards. If we ignore Spawn Camping games and other potential loses, we can calculate the time to get 200 wins if you lose 0 games, given each game takes 15min. Each game takes roughly 45min invested time when you combine both the game time with the lobby wait time. Multiply that by 200 and you have 9000 minutes or 150 hours of time invested if you won every single game. So currently you would need to play for 150 hours without losing compared to what would take 83.3 hours(using 10 minute wait times) before.
If you throw loses into the mix we can still assume it will take roughly 45% more time now then what it used to take to get commendations and loot rewards. The fact is, Arena has less players playing it and as a result many rewards from it will now take ridiculous time investments to accomplish. I could even argue it is harder to win arena now given the spawn camping and the arena elitists that make up a large population of the arena player base.
I understand people who already unlocked all the commendations and rewards may feel robbed of their hard work, but making the commendations and rewards more accessible to players through adventure mode seems like the right direction to go and the majority of SoT players would most likely agree because they are clearly playing adventure mode and not arena.
I always thought it was ridiculous for the Pirate Legends rewards to be locked behind Arena commendations in the first place. You achieved pirate legend in adventure, why should you be forced to play arena to get all the pirate legend items.
@stundorn Really? After playing this game for years and being nearly maxed out, you still think the arena is boring and dull? I should have seen the founder tab that was my mistake, but man, I just don't get it. My friends and I cannot stand just sitting in adventure and grinding quests or world events. If we don't see any other players, we just leave. I cannot wrap my head around how you think arena is boring, its the only place where there's guaranteed player interaction and I don't need to waste time stocking up my ship. If you've really played for that long you should understand that this game is built for player interaction.
@camolicious223 i have a lot of playerinteractions.
Arena is pointless and audience is questionable at best to me .
i'm an open world FFA full loot pvp Player since Ultima Online.
Its important to me to have a large Map and to have a more tactical combat and also maybe psychology game.
Also i dont think the PvE is bad, i like it as a filler in between and also cause to interact. Nit too hard and searching a chest never gets old to me. Heart of a Pirate i'd guess :-D
I dont need to PvP for the sake of it i do it for loot and to spice things up, lets say to have it more immersive more of a Pirate Adventure?
I rarely Play arena games , although i sometimes enjoy some FPS online , but not that much compared to sandbox like games.
This said, the combat system itself is a little bit clunky so how anyone of the pvpers thinks this is serious is beyond me.
The only serious bad thing is glitches and issues around combat itself.
And interactions with your Crew is still a thing .
And you can also interact friendly and cooperative risk a betray or plan to betray someone by yourself.
Pirate Adventure social experience it once was.
Had a blastcoop with Strangera during Hungering or Throne Event and never know if one betrays or not etc.
Unfortunatley majority of audience doesnt get the game right imho and is not accepting its randomness and Sandbox Character. Although its horizontal progression what is completely to be seconded and does not influence you at all , people work the system off instead to immerse and be more pirate , maybe they lack immersion or take gaming too serious in general i dont know.