Sword and swordcombat needs a re-work BADLY.

  • They have been making changes to the sword so many times now but the current version is by far the worst one.

    If two people hit each other with the sword it's just RNG whoever manages to get the hit to register first while the arm moves in a really jittery way since the animation of the swing keeps resetting over and over again.

    Secondly; the sword deals WAAAY to much damage right now, people just look at your direction and spams M1 it hopes that it will eventually hit you since they don't get punished for it at all if you miss your target. The old version was so much better where you got soft-stunned for messing up.

    Please Rare, don't dumb down the game more than it already is since launch.

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  • @itz-majman honestly I think damage is fine but misses need to be brought from 1.1 seconds between swings to 1.5. That way it is in-line with other weapons DPS outside of a successful combo. DPM the sword has always been king given all other weapons are out of ammo after 15-20 seconds of shooting.

    As far as the hit trading which is absolutely rampant, this is a combination of limited server abilities (Microsoft) and hit reg issues just like all the other weapons. Primarily, this is Rare’s struggle with making projectile registration work vs something easier like hitscan.

    Personally I 100% think sword trading would disappear if it was switched from projectile to hitscan. This would also fix how people do 360 degree attacks with it as well as getting around blocking with ease (M1 spam and POV sweep)

  • @kommodoreyenser we need a new system like parrying blocking counter-blocking So sword fight is fun and takes skill and not boring

  • @arthurm18991928 try holding block and jumping in a direction

  • @kommodoreyenser said in Sword and swordcombat needs a re-work BADLY.:

    @itz-majman honestly I think damage is fine but misses need to be brought from 1.1 seconds between swings to 1.5. That way it is in-line with other weapons DPS outside of a successful combo. DPM the sword has always been king given all other weapons are out of ammo after 15-20 seconds of shooting.

    As far as the hit trading which is absolutely rampant, this is a combination of limited server abilities (Microsoft) and hit reg issues just like all the other weapons. Primarily, this is Rare’s struggle with making projectile registration work vs something easier like hitscan.

    Personally I 100% think sword trading would disappear if it was switched from projectile to hitscan. This would also fix how people do 360 degree attacks with it as well as getting around blocking with ease (M1 spam and POV sweep)

    The damage honestly is not fine because there are three hit combos which is already like 90% of your health gone and also the fact that the 4 huts can be done so quickly with no delay makes it too overpowered at the moment.

  • @itz-majman said in Sword and swordcombat needs a re-work BADLY.:

    They have been making changes to the sword so many times now but the current version is by far the worst one.

    I wholeheartedly disagree. The way I see it, the sword is in a better place than it has ever been.

    If two people hit each other with the sword it's just RNG whoever manages to get the hit to register first while the arm moves in a really jittery way since the animation of the swing keeps resetting over and over again.

    Not true. The devs have already explained this in patch notes. If you're hit first mid-attack, your attack will do no damage. This is to promote blocking. The moment you get hit, stop swinging wildly, because it won't do you any good. It only appears to be RNG, because often times your opponent thinks he will take damage, so he will either try to do more damage 1st or block.

    Secondly; the sword deals WAAAY to much damage right now, people just look at your direction and spams M1 it hopes that it will eventually hit you since they don't get punished for it at all if you miss your target.

    You do get punished - there is a delay; it's not very long, but that's specifically to speed up sword play.

    As for the damage, if we didn't have that, any pirate with 2 guns could stand perfectly still, tank a few hits and shoot you twice dead before you take them down. Now, care to explain to me why 2 ranged weapons should beat a melee weapon in melee?

    The old version was so much better where you got soft-stunned for messing up.

    We still have soft stun when you get hit. Again, a reason to block, especially since your ability to dodge from the block isn't hampered by the stun.

    Please Rare, don't dumb down the game more than it already is since launch.

    Please Rare, keep making intelligent decisions and ignoring pirates that don't fully understand the mechanics.

  • @kommodoreyenser said in Sword and swordcombat needs a re-work BADLY.:

    @itz-majman honestly I think damage is fine but misses need to be brought from 1.1 seconds between swings to 1.5. That way it is in-line with other weapons DPS outside of a successful combo. DPM the sword has always been king given all other weapons are out of ammo after 15-20 seconds of shooting.

    As far as the hit trading which is absolutely rampant, this is a combination of limited server abilities (Microsoft) and hit reg issues just like all the other weapons. Primarily, this is Rare’s struggle with making projectile registration work vs something easier like hitscan.

    Personally I 100% think sword trading would disappear if it was switched from projectile to hitscan. This would also fix how people do 360 degree attacks with it as well as getting around blocking with ease (M1 spam and POV sweep)

    I can agree with these changes - they seem more sensible than the OP's suggestions at any rate.

  • @arthurm18991928 said in Sword and swordcombat needs a re-work BADLY.:

    @kommodoreyenser we need a new system like parrying blocking counter-blocking So sword fight is fun and takes skill and not boring

    We already have all of these things in place, and it does take skill and is not boring at all if done right - it's just hampered by hit-reg issues and general ignorance.

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  • @Galactic-Geek lol bro sword right now is just click mouse 1

  • @galactic-geek

    If that's actually true then they actually need to change it since that system is & sounds horrible, the animation just keeps resetting making it seem super glitchy and not intentional at all.

    They keep dumbing down the sword more and more, making it into a M1 spam isn't the way to go, i would be fine with the damage it deals if you actually got punished by missing. You say it's a delay and i really want you to post some proof since i really can't see it. If someone misses the first swing they can just keep mashing M1 and walk in the same speed.

    With the soft-stun I'm talking about being punished when you actually swing and don't hit anything, i do know it's a stun if you connect a blow and that's not what I'm talking about.

    I've seen you around on the forums for a long time and the fact that you are saying this;

    Please Rare, keep making intelligent decisions and ignoring pirates that don't fully understand the mechanics.

    Is to me mindblowing since they have done so much stuff to make the game easier since launch.

    I do know the mechanics of the game, i PvP almost exclusively everytime i open up the game. So i have the right to criticize changes they do on the weapons if i see them hurting the game or taking it in the wrong direction.

    Seen multiple streamers complaining about the same things i do so i do know I'm not alone in thinking this.

  • @itz-majman

    I agree that the sword isn't in a great position now. Hit registration is in all facets of the combat system an issue and causing for RNG feeling we have.

    I disagree with the damage statement you make though. You are ignoring the reason that it was increased to begin with, it was required as people were simply tanking sword hits with guns as it did not kill you quick enough.

    The penalty of missing though has ever since they removed the slowdown to lenient in my opinion. It wasn't a soft-stun just a movement slow, which would allow the opponent to gain range and shift the momentum in combat. Now one can spam hits and maintain their momentum regardless of landing the hit or not, which in my opinion removed much of the enjoyment of sword duels and not even starting about gun wielders kiting ability.

  • @cotu42

    I'm fine with the damage if they balance it so you get punished movement-vise if you miss a swing since i do agree the sword was really lackluster before since the damage was so low and even useless at times.

    Having the current movement + the damage buff is insane and dumbs down the game imo.

  • They buffed the sword originally because one blunders where broken so if u got a blundy and they have a sword blundy them if it doesnt kill the knockback will save u from the stun.

  • In my opinion the damage is good but sword v sword is a little spammy.

  • @cramp said in Sword and swordcombat needs a re-work BADLY.:

    @Galactic-Geek lol bro sword right now is just click mouse 1

    No.

    It's

    1a. Attack
    1b. Attack/attack
    1c. Attack/attack/attack
    1d. Attack/cancel/switch
    1e. Attack/attack/cancel/switch
    1f. Attack/attack/attack/cancel/switch
    1g. Attack/cancel/block
    1h. Attack/attack/cancel/block
    1i. Attack/attack/attack/cancel/block
    1j. Attack/cancel/jump
    1k. Attack/attack/cancel/jump
    1l. Attack/attack/attack/cancel/jump
    2a. Block
    2b. Block left
    2c. Block right
    2d. Block up
    2e. Block down
    2f. Block while moving
    2g. Block left while moving
    2h. Block right while moving
    2i. Block up while moving
    2j. Block down while moving
    2k. Block/cancel/switch
    2l. Block/cancel/attack
    2m. Block while jumping
    2n. Block while jumping and moving
    3a. Charge
    3b. Advanced charge
    3c. Advanced charge w/jump
    4a. Dodge forward (block+move+jump)
    4b. Dodge backwards
    4c. Dodge sideways
    4d. Dodge diagonally
    4e. Dodge through opponent
    5a. Running attack (block+move+tap attack=more reach and speed than a regular attack)
    5b. Running attack into 1a
    5c. Running attack into 1b
    5d. Running attack into 1d
    5e. Running attack into 1e

    Etc.

    ...and I'm certain that I'm missing some or not being as detailed or thorough as I could be.

  • @itz-majman said in Sword and swordcombat needs a re-work BADLY.:

    @galactic-geek

    If that's actually true then they actually need to change it since that system is & sounds horrible, the animation just keeps resetting making it seem super glitchy and not intentional at all.

    I do agree that the animations could probably be improved.

    They keep dumbing down the sword more and more,

    They actually haven't. They've made it more accessible while removing exploits that bypass the system in place while simultaneously speeding up swordplay and increasing its damage so that it can compete with double-gun.

    making it into a M1 spam isn't the way to go,

    Spam doesn't exist - you only get 3 hits max before the combo is reset, and there's a built in delay.

    i would be fine with the damage it deals if you actually got punished by missing.

    You do get punished; it's just minimal - again this is to balance swordplay vs. gunplay (without it, guns win - even up close).

    You say it's a delay and i really want you to post some proof since i really can't see it. If someone misses the first swing they can just keep mashing M1 and walk in the same speed.

    If you hit someone, you can combo without delay. If you miss someone, you can't, and there's a delay before you can swing again. There's also a delay if you hit someone but don't combo, but it's significantly shorter than if you missed.

    As for proof, I'd be happy to show you video, but my upload speeds are pitiful, and convincing an ally to let me attack them might be difficult.

    In the meantime, you can try the scenarios yourself. Perhaps you can see it on the skeletons, but I find them incredibly uncooperative or fragile.

    With the soft-stun I'm talking about being punished when you actually swing and don't hit anything, i do know it's a stun if you connect a blow and that's not what I'm talking about.

    What you're talking about is not a stun at all, but is rather a delay or cooldown of sorts.

    I've seen you around on the forums for a long time and the fact that you are saying this;

    Please Rare, keep making intelligent decisions and ignoring pirates that don't fully understand the mechanics.

    Is to me mindblowing since they have done so much stuff to make the game easier since launch.

    They're not making it easier. They're making it more accessible and balanced between various crew sizes. It's not always easier, depending on circumstances. A solo pirate has an easier time with PvE, but not PvP, whereas a 4-man crew may have a harder time with PvE, but an easier time with PvP. Balance!

    They even went out of their way to make loot, leveling, and TTs more accessible even though they didn't have to, in order to entice more fresh bloo- I mean, pirates, into the Sea.

    I do know the mechanics of the game,

    That's what everyone says. I find that most actually don't; they only think they do. I doubt that you're an exception. Technically, even I'm not.

    i PvP almost exclusively everytime i open up the game.

    Sorry to hear that - must get boring after a while.

    So i have the right to criticize changes they do on the weapons if i see them hurting the game or taking it in the wrong direction.

    So far, the only thing hurting the game combat-wise is ignorance and hit-reg issues. As for direction, that's their call, not yours.

    Seen multiple streamers complaining about the same things i do so i do know I'm not alone in thinking this.

    Streamers aren't know-it-alls. They're just regular pirates like you and me. In all likelihood, their own knowledge comes from time played, like us, as well as their vast network of fans. If they don't know something, their little birdies are quick to Tweet into their ears - that's the ONLY advantage they have over us. It's like having hundreds of backseat sailors each stream.

  • @doomscorp said in Sword and swordcombat needs a re-work BADLY.:

    In my opinion the damage is good but sword v sword is a little spammy.

    This only happens if both pirates aren't skilled with the sword. Skilled pirates will move, dodge, block, cancel, etc.

    There's also the wrongful perception of "spam" - what looks like spam to you could actually be me starting with a running attack, and then comboing into 2 follow-up attacks while I'm circle-strafing to get around your block. To you, it's just spam, because you're confused and losing. To me, because I'm succeeding, it's a planned strategy and tactile positioning (my faster movement while attacking vs. your slower movement while blocking).

  • Instead of the constant reworks I'd prefer to see another melee class of weapon added rather than change the fundamentals of the cutlass.

    Single handed Axe, Double handed boarding Axe spring to mind and or a Pike. This way it covers the same damage and fundamentals the ranged weapons currently do. For example

    Heavy Dmg low range slow recovery Blunderbuss & Axe
    Low Dmg medium range fast recovery Flintlock & Cutlass
    Medium Dmg long range medium recovery EoR & Pike

    As others have stated there is much more to it's mechanics than just blindly spamming it's attacks, although I do understand how it can be perceived to be used in this manner and probably is for most casual pirates.

  • @galactic-geek said:

    @kommodoreyenser said:
    ...misses need to be brought from 1.1 seconds between swings to 1.5. ...sword trading would disappear if it was switched from projectile to hitscan. This would also fix how people do 360 degree attacks with it as well as getting around blocking with ease (M1 spam and POV sweep)

    I can agree with these changes

    @galactic-geek said:

    Spam doesn't exist...

    @galactic-geek said:

    1a. Attack
    1b. Attack/attack
    1c. Attack/attack/attack
    1d. Attack/cancel/switch
    1e. Attack/attack/cancel/switch
    1f. Attack/attack/attack/cancel/switch
    ...
    2a. Block
    2b. Block left
    2c. Block right
    2d. Block up
    2e. Block down
    2f. Block while moving
    2g. Block left while moving
    2h. Block right while moving
    ...
    4b. Dodge backwards
    4c. Dodge sideways
    4d. Dodge diagonally
    4e. Dodge through opponent
    5a. Running attack (block+move+tap attack=more reach and speed than a regular attack)
    5b. Running attack into 1a
    ...
    Etc.

    ...and I'm certain that I'm missing some or not being as detailed or thorough as I could be.

    Ah, you left a few out. The most popular ones are:
    21a. Attack/Attack/Attack/Attack/Attack/Attack/Attack/Attack...
    32j. Move forward Attack/Attack/Attack/Attack/Attack/Attack/Attack...

    Of course you can combo any of your aforementioned moves, but it really isn't necessary. 21a is especially effective against people trying to pull a 4e on you.

    The one thing we might agree on is that sword fights are hampered by reg issues in blocking, as well as attack/attack/attack...

  • @theblackbellamy The combo resets after 3 and there is a slight delay - you can't do more than that consecutively without the delay. Period. And your spam is NOT effective against 4e, because 4e puts you behind them where their reach is significantly reduced. You might get hit once as you pass through, but if you've already blocked their previous attack, and they continue swinging after you're behind them without moving or turning around, their follow-up attacks will miss while you can freely counter-attack them.

  • From PvE left field:

    I think sword and blunderbuss are fine. Buff everything to 1 shot and just be done with it ya babies.

  • Well there are 2 types of Marshman on these seas. One is the m1 spammer is the sword dancer. M1 spammer is pretty self explanatory but the sword dancer utilises the mobility the sword grants to “dance” around their opponents.

  • @robby0316 that's not parrying parrying is when block as soon as the enemy strikes Stunning them for a second And counter blocking is when you hit them a couple times to stop them and it breaks there block for a short period giving you a second to strike it would stop people who just block then run and shoot you

  • @pithyrumble said in Sword and swordcombat needs a re-work BADLY.:

    From PvE left field:

    I think sword and blunderbuss are fine. Buff everything to 1 shot and just be done with it ya babies.

    This will make things worse - EoR and blunderbuss would reign supreme. Sword and flintlock would be virtually useless.

  • @arthurm18991928 said in Sword and swordcombat needs a re-work BADLY.:

    @robby0316 that's not parrying parrying is when block as soon as the enemy strikes Stunning them for a second And counter blocking is when you hit them a couple times to stop them and it breaks there block for a short period giving you a second to strike it would stop people who just block then run and shoot you

    Parrying doesn't require a stun - it just means to negate an attack. Also blocking is itself a countermove. One could even argue that a block is a parry.

  • @galactic-geek said in Sword and swordcombat needs a re-work BADLY.:

    @pithyrumble said in Sword and swordcombat needs a re-work BADLY.:

    From PvE left field:

    I think sword and blunderbuss are fine. Buff everything to 1 shot and just be done with it ya babies.

    This will make things worse - EoR and blunderbuss would reign supreme. Sword and flintlock would be virtually useless.

    Yes, but sword blocks all bullets and sharks.

  • @pithyrumble said in Sword and swordcombat needs a re-work BADLY.:

    @galactic-geek said in Sword and swordcombat needs a re-work BADLY.:

    @pithyrumble said in Sword and swordcombat needs a re-work BADLY.:

    From PvE left field:

    I think sword and blunderbuss are fine. Buff everything to 1 shot and just be done with it ya babies.

    This will make things worse - EoR and blunderbuss would reign supreme. Sword and flintlock would be virtually useless.

    Yes, but sword blocks all bullets and sharks.

    Bullets, no. Sharks, yes. The latter should be a thing by default, IMO.

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