Griefing peaceful players needs Gameplay Punishment

  • @nabberwar said in Griefing peaceful players needs Gameplay Punishment:

    add a scuttle vote option to the Ferry of the Damned note.

    This suggestion has me question how this game works on Console. On PC anyone can scuttle at any point anywhere. Hits esc and vote to scuttle. Do console players just not have an equivalent option or are they just clueless on what features are available to them?

    I think this suggestion is more to make it visible to the player in the game world, rather than tucked away in the menu. It might remove some hard feeling by players who feel like they can't get away from a spawn trap because they don't know the feature exists.

    I actually think this suggestion has some merit but it might be a little bit hard to display what they are voting on and the consequences of the vote succeeding in the game without it becoming word spam.

  • @wagstr Well we already got the whole PVE police force jumping on top of any post asking for ways to mitigate interactions with toxic players..

    Seems only fair we have at least one person trying to hold us all to higher linguistic standards, amiright?

  • @xultanis-dragon said in Griefing peaceful players needs Gameplay Punishment:

    EvE Online in the early days was amazing. All the tears lol. Repeatedly players would buy the game and instantly go "where are the PvE servers." then they realize how harsh the game is and then for years would beg for PvE servers. The best part. You put a target on your back. You couldn't make an forum account without an actual player account so it was tied. Whatever you posted in the forums was your character.

    So it was a really bad move for PvE players to beg for PvE servers when they are in a corporation or alliance because that just painted an even bigger target on your friends.

    Man I should really go take a look at that game again, its been a good while.

    So it sure sounds like you enjoy going after PVE players...

    Which was actually my original hypothesis: all of the commenters who huff and puff about how there should never be PVE-servers really just don't want all of the people they can (easily) beat to leave the game...

    Maybe it's actually because these commenters only like fighting unsuspecting crews? Maybe they're worried they'd lose if they had to go head-to-head against other PVP-thirsty pirates?

    I mean, why else would these commenters never mention any suggestions to improve Arena? Only saying "it's so bad" with 0 ideas to improve it?

  • @mcgarnaglewolf I think I found this irony you misplaced...

  • @thagoochiestman huh?

  • @thagoochiestman said in Griefing peaceful players needs Gameplay Punishment:

    @xultanis-dragon said in Griefing peaceful players needs Gameplay Punishment:

    EvE Online in the early days was amazing. All the tears lol. Repeatedly players would buy the game and instantly go "where are the PvE servers." then they realize how harsh the game is and then for years would beg for PvE servers. The best part. You put a target on your back. You couldn't make an forum account without an actual player account so it was tied. Whatever you posted in the forums was your character.

    So it was a really bad move for PvE players to beg for PvE servers when they are in a corporation or alliance because that just painted an even bigger target on your friends.

    Man I should really go take a look at that game again, its been a good while.

    So it sure sounds like you enjoy going after PVE players...

    Which was actually my original hypothesis: all of the commenters who huff and puff about how there should never be PVE-servers really just don't want all of the people they can (easily) beat to leave the game...

    Maybe it's actually because these commenters only like fighting unsuspecting crews? Maybe they're worried they'd lose if they had to go head-to-head against other PVP-thirsty pirates?

    I mean, why else would these commenters never mention any suggestions to improve Arena? Only saying "it's so bad" with 0 ideas to improve it?

    Again you missed the point entirely. EvE Online like SoT is a PvPvE game. There is no PvE or PvP. Its both at all times. Players who bought and played EvE online thought like other PvE players that if they cry a bunch the devs will cave and give them PvE servers or at least a safe space. Dev's didn't do that. Dev's stuck to the original idea of their game and it flourished. Still the greatest MMORPG in my opinion. The stories of sabotage, the wars to take over space, the ability to control the ingame market (which is completely player generated) by disguising it as an event when really you are just paying out hitmen.

    SIDE NOTE No lie, if anyone is an economics major, then look into EvE Online market place. Its is a real market structure. Supply, demand, and location. Completely player driven. Everything for sale on the market is sold and bought by players and prices decided by players. There is no sell to NPC.

    I made Billions, which is actually quiet a lot in the game, by controlling the market for a high in demand PvP module.

    Alliance called Goonswarm manipulated the ore and materials market with that hulkageddon event. Prices sky rocketed for everything because now even the easiest farm-able ore was in short supply. Prices double or tripled. You should really look into it.

    That is the type of game EvE online is, and players still for SOME REASON think that it should have PvE safe space. They are making demands to change the core structure of the game and for what?? Because they dont like their feelings being hurt??

    You assume that players who don't want PvE servers are PvP players who go after PvE players. That is untrue. A lot of the Players that shut down PvE servers aren't just PvP players but PvE players that realize how important PvP is to the game structure and to the world.

    This idea that the game is one or the other is where most of the problems come from. This is not and I repeat for the 100000000th time. This is not PvE or PvP.

    While PvE'ing you have to watch out for other ships, while PvP'ing you have to take into account PvE encouters.

    I mean, why else would these commenters never mention any suggestions to improve Arena? Only saying "it's so bad" with 0 ideas to improve it?

    Arena isn't suppose to be a PvP server nor did anyone really want it. Arena isn't suppose to cater to the PvP crowd. Its suppose to cater to the players who only have 30mins or an hour to play each session so that they can play Sea of Thieves.

    See its beliefs like this that are the issue. Not every game needs to cater to every play style, not every game needs to have a PvE safe space, the belief that games will suffer from not catering to PvE players is for a fact false. EvE online is proof of that and the belief that catering to PvE players can hurt games like these is proven by Elite Dangerous.

    Sorry buddy again, should take feelings out of the equation and look at things objectively. This game is not meant for PvE or PvP. Its a PvPvE game.

  • @xultanis-dragon You should have added one more "safe space" usage just to really hammer home your point 😂

  • @thagoochiestman said in Griefing peaceful players needs Gameplay Punishment:

    @xultanis-dragon You should have added one more "safe space" usage just to really hammer home your point 😂

    They provided you a very polite, reasoned, and well-supported response and this is the best reply you could come up with?

  • People bringing up EvE online to defend this game even quoting the market structure of eve, should consider before the real market structure of the games and see that there are quite some differences, one is a f2p game that is very clear since the start that you’re going to face more well equipped players and will have to grind to get better equipment and relies on the try and see formula so that they don’t have to deal with any promise they ever make, the other one is sea of thieves, a game you have to pay to play, that states it clearly that other players will not have any way to get an injust advantage over others by grinding but at same time puts sloops vs galleons in the same world ignoring completely game balance, actions per minute, respawn times, dps of a whole crew, this has been like this for years, plenty of people have whined over it and developers could have done something without touching the pvpve formula but still guaranteeing somehow a bit of balance, but nope, it is fun for 4 men galleon to stomp on solo new players and that’s how it will be, there are also some random solo sloops saying they can take over a server alone just to keep the game unbalanced for many others just because 20 persons in the world enjoy fighting outnumbered after having sunk thousands of hours to learn the game mechanic.
    So if you studied a bit of marketing strategy for real you’ll know that grand theft auto didn’t sell millions of copies only because you can steal only cars in that game. I mean i am pretty certain that if that’s the only thing you could do in that game not many would have bought it.
    But here we go people still defending a very little game like sea of thieves by quoting the name. Still waiting for them to do the same question about any other game title and see that it is a laughable way of defending the undefendable. Developers treasure the pvpve of the game? Then they should start spending more time on making it really precious and exciting for every size of crews since that is the main culprit, i am perfectly fine losing 1 vs 1 or 1 vs 2, more is just ridiculous and makes me laugh a lot when it is defended this way, i played very pvp focused games and i even started handicap matches 2 vs 1 and 3 vs 1 when i wanted them, i enjoyed them because i asked for it, i had the chance to prepare for it and i could still decline whenever i wanted and not because they interrupted me on enjoying the main game. If you guys don’t get it and quote the market internal structure of a completely different game (on the REAL economy) then i am sorry but you need to read a bit more about real marketing economic, how it relies on the playerbase and it is obviously better if it appeases most kind of players, and why this game instead will only appease a bunch of enthusiasts or simply griefers by game design, you’re fine with it, ok, but don’t put up ridiculous comparisons which have been always the case in this forum, there is no way that a normal person enjoys being outnumbered or outskilled almost all the time and this game completely ignores that case, it is simply doomed to being a niche game until it changes that, and it still pulls a lot of players all considered because in the core it is a superbly good sailing game, rest is honestly really nothing special or unique, just outdated badly designed pvp mechanics that you’d not find even in a 2002 korean mmorpg game, which in comparison look like chess vs sea of thieves being basically a tic tac toe on which enemy can even do 2-3 actions per round cause reasons

  • Game has been out for years now, theyre very adamant about their PVP aspect. Reapers is made to go hunting other people. Chainshots, firebombs, bluderbus, kegging. All these things amount to people looking for a fight. Might wanna stay on Apex.

  • @ghostpaw Right?! It's not very fun when you put time and thought into a post and all you get is an unoriginal, smart aleck response!

    But hopefully now he knows how all the PVE'ers feel when they write a long/thoughtful/polite/reasoned/well-supported post and all they get is "Wah! It's a pirate game!" or "Wah! You're actually the toxic one!"

  • I just got my 1st ever XBL suspension in over 14 years on XBL - a 24 hr. communication ban for calling someone an AH, because they were camping an objective and preventing other ships from completing it.

    Normally, this wouldn't be an issue, and wouldn't set me off, but the fact that this happened in the Insider test build, and they were specifically gloating about preventing others from completing the testing really just ticked me off!

    Trolls of the highest order! 😡

  • @thagoochiestman

    I've read a lot of your posts and you seem to be like Bugaboo Bill. Very hard driven.

    Here's words directly from the Developers and Owners of the game themselves.

    In referenced to being asked if he can reveal more about who will be able to use custom servers and if they will be available to all players or just content creators and the like, he said:

    We don't want to separate players (or) player types... ...The whole identity of Sea of Thieves is that it's a shared world, but enabling people to come up with cool things and socialize together is the kind of thing we love to see in the community.

    In referenced to being asked what the release date is for custom servers and the controversy around adding things like a PvE only server or private servers for players to play by themselves with reputation gain.

    The whole core premise of Sea of Thieves is that there is danger, and to progress; to get to pirate legend. And through all of that stuff there will be danger, and that there will be other players and the risk/reward is all apart of it. That's what Sea of Thieves has always been... ...It's all about a shared world and it's all about players and we have no intention to deviate from that.

    Your only argument that you COULD take would be about the first clip and say something along the lines of, "Well if they don't want to separate players or player types then why did they add arena?" Good question. My thinking is that adding arena itself was a different gamemode entirely. It wasn't meant to replace adventure or to become more popular, it was made to be an alternate gamemode that you can play when you get bored of adventure. Now why does this line of thinking not translate to a PvE only server? This is why:

    Let's say you want to stack the FOTD 10 times, that will take you around 8 hours to do if you're quick. Would you rather go into a server where:

    (1) You could be tucked on
    (2) You could have your loot be stolen
    (3) You waste 8 hours of work because a pirate boarded your ship
    (4) You're always under constant threat that you could die

    OR, would you rather be in a server where you are safe from all of those problems, and don't have to worry about some pirate stealing your loot?

    90% of players will take the second option, because there is no reason to put yourself in a situation where bad things could happen when you could alternatively be completely safe from other players. I'm not saying, "90% of players wants PvE only servers," I'm saying that if they were added, 90% of players would play them. Just like if they added an invincibility potion, EVERYONE would use it, does that mean that it should be added or that people want it? No, but since it's in the game people are going to use it.
    The problem with this is because 90% of players who do PVE missions will go to this private server, who's left on the normal servers? People who want to steal loot, but there's no loot to be stolen because everyone is off in fairyland completely safe from any problems that would arise. So all the PvPers leave the game, not to even mention that the most popular streamers have built their career by stealing loot. Pace22 would immediately leave the game because there's nothing left to steal, and many more streamers would leave, as well as most of their viewers, which means that SOT no longer has an internet presence. Now that all the news has gotten out that Sea of Thieves has a SEVERE drop in their playerbase, all of these articles will come out online saying things like,

    "Sea of thieves is a bad game," and "Sea of Thieves doesn't care about it's playerbase."

    So now that there is all of this stigma around SOT there will be no new players because there are only bad reviews. So people who want to buy Sea of Thieves won't, because there are all of these videos and articles saying that it's a bad game. So Sea of Thieves will no longer be getting an influx of new players, which also means that Rare won't make any money from people buying the game.

    What do you do once you've reached 75/75/75/20? By that point you'll have all of the cosmetics, and with the emissary system you can easily get the highest level in a 2-3 months. People will get bored because they're not working towards anything, they already have everything in the game and the highest level in the game, what now? Most players who are max level would normally turn to stealing loot so they don't get bored, but because of PVE only servers that's not a thing anymore. Eventually all of those people will leave because there's no point for them to play anymore, so the only people who play SOT are a few thousand people who didn't get max level and only play Sea of Thieves for 2 hours a week.

    Most PvPers who play adventure mode don't play it because they want PvP and ship vs ship battles, if they wanted that they would go to arena. People play adventure because they like stealing loot, so you can't just get rid of the loot.

    That's why adding PVE only servers are bad, the PvPers will leave, all of the streamers will leave, people will get bored, the internet starts hating on SOT, and then you have a dead game. Not to even mention the fact that the developers themselves have said many times that they want this game to be one where people of all ideologies can play together. The PVPers, PVEers and the RPers can all be in the same server together, and they will do everything they can to keep that in the game

    As the developers said, the path to pirate legend involves the threat that you could be fought by other players. That's why they aren't going to add a PvE only server, as they believe and the majority of players believe that the path to pirate legend includes the fear of being fought by another pirate and losing your loot. There is no reason to pander to the couple thousand people who want PVE only servers, when you have hundreds of thousands of players who have bought and actively play the game because of the PVP factor. It doesn't make sense to change the game for a few, when the vast majority don't want that. Since most people fall into the category of PvPvEers, that would mean that if you remove the PvP aspect of the game, most of the playerbase would leave.

    At the end of the day whether you want to add PvE servers or not, the developers themselves have said multiple times that they don't want to separate players into different servers. They want this game to be one where players of all groups, PvPers, PvErs, and RPers can all be in the same server together. The only thing that can change the developers vision for the game is if the community comes together and says that they want something different. That isn't happening, and they still have a very strong community in favor of PvPvE, so there's no point in trying to do something that could backfire into something very deadly.

    The only way that SOT will add a PvE only server, is if a majority of the community says that they want PVE only servers, until that happens, a PVE only server will never be added. When you are the owner of a video game, you have to do what the majority of people want or you risk killing your game, and right now the majority of people do not want PvE only servers, so they aren't going to add them.

    Anyways, hope this helps. Maybe you just haven't found the right person who puts forth points that make sense and that's why you aren't responding to all of the points that @Xultanis-Dragon puts forth in his paragraphs. So don't respond to me unless you're going to argue each point I brought forth because there's no reason to continue the conversation unless both parties are actually trying to improve the game instead of just saying, "YOU'RE WRONG!" and not trying to explain as to why you're wrong. As well as having one person bring forth point after point, argument after argument, just to be met with, "No"

  • @kaijoi It's a shame that the forum profile's only show the most recent comments, because I actually used to post more thought-out suggestions and ideas back when I played the game regularly.

    But then it turned out that a lot of players just don't like suggestions about anything, even if it's not related to PVPVE—it's actually somewhat similar to Apple-fanboys who seem to think any suggestions are directly disrespecting Tim Apple.

    That, along with the rest of the game's toxicity, has led me to just not care about what happens with this game; kind of like how you're supposed to go into the sessions, I really don't care if [SoT] wins or loses because I'm just gonna have fun playing around with all you fine folk!

  • @markedseven52 killing other players is not griefing. *unless there is malicious intent or they just spawn kill you for hours

  • @thagoochiestman said in Griefing peaceful players needs Gameplay Punishment:

    @kaijoi It's a shame that the forum profile's only show the most recent comments, because I actually used to post more thought-out suggestions and ideas back when I played the game regularly.

    But then it turned out that a lot of players just don't like suggestions about anything, even if it's not related to PVPVE—it's actually somewhat similar to Apple-fanboys who seem to think any suggestions are directly disrespecting Tim Apple.

    That, along with the rest of the game's toxicity, has led me to just not care about what happens with this game; kind of like how you're supposed to go into the sessions, I really don't care if [SoT] wins or loses because I'm just gonna have fun playing around with all you fine folk!

    Just exposed yourself as the troll you are. No further comments from you will be taken with any validity whatsoever. Thanks for that fella!

  • @thagoochiestman

    But then it turned out that a lot of players just don't like suggestions about anything, even if it's not related to PVPVE—it's actually somewhat similar to Apple-fanboys who seem to think any suggestions are directly disrespecting Tim Apple.

    True. Honestly it's really stupid when people act like this without thinking of ANY way that their game could be at fault, and just ride or die with the game no matter what. Or if they have an opinion about something they don't change it even when brought with facts or logic. Welcome to the real world I've been told.

    That, along with the rest of the game's toxicity, has led me to just not care about what happens with this game; kind of like how you're supposed to go into the sessions, I really don't care if [SoT] wins or loses because I'm just gonna have fun playing around with all you fine folk!

    I'm not sure what you mean by, "the game's toxicity" If you mean people sinking another ship or killing people then that's not toxic, that's apart of the game. But if you mean racist / homophobic comments then I can understand your point, but I don't see SOT as being a toxic game compared to every other multiplayer game with voicechat. It's pretty mellow.

    Good talk.

  • Managed to reduce my 24-hour communication suspension down to only 4 hours by admitting fault and writing a minimum 250-word essay on how to prevent others from making the same mistake I did and how to make XBL a better place...

    Never have I ever felt more like Bart Simpson.

  • @wagstr It's not trolling, it's being a pirate.

    See now you're being the toxic one...

  • @thagoochiestman said in Griefing peaceful players needs Gameplay Punishment:

    @kaijoi It's a shame that the forum profile's only show the most recent comments, because I actually used to post more thought-out suggestions and ideas back when I played the game regularly.

    You don't only see most recent's. You can do look through a players entire post history.

    I've read the first topic you made and look at a bunch of your responses.

    You only had one idea topic idea that wasn't about a passive mode or complaining about how this game is full of greifers and toxic players.

    Your topics are about greifers but you never specify what the player is doing to greifer so its heavily implied that just someone attacking a ship is a greifer. Which is false, can't be greifed from enemy players in this game. Its impossible. Only by crew mates.

    You then talk about the toxic behaviors of the PvP crowd when players have acknowledged that a lot of the Toxicity that we run into is from PvE players being sore losers. We even make posts telling the community that most of the times when we roll up on a ship and attacked it and they act like adults about it saying "GG" or at least acknowledging that they lost fair and square, we friend them or at least even help them later.

    You want to talk about toxic, then look into the mirror because your PvE community isn't on some kind of high horse at all.

    The only real idea you had that players liked was your chest idea. Why did this one garner a good response?? It didn't try to give some kind of defense to protect the PvE players or separate them from the player base. Other than that all of your posts have been indicating somehow one way or another that PvE servers are needed, a passive mode is needed, how attacking ships is greifing, and all PvP'ers are toxic just for existing.

    But then it turned out that a lot of players just don't like suggestions about anything, even if it's not related to PVPVE—it's actually somewhat similar to Apple-fanboys who seem to think any suggestions are directly disrespecting Tim Apple.

    This is you suggesting an idea -

    "Hey I know this is an ice cream joint, but I have an idea to make it better. How about we remove the cream and just do frozen water because vegans can't have ice cream. Its still be a frozen treat right right and this way everyone is happy." - But we want ice cream.....??? - "Well you guys are being toxic and greifing the vegans. How can you not see this is going to be awesome. Other places do this all the time like this one place." - Thats great, but a lot of people like this ice cream shop and we want ice cream and enjoy it. If you don't want ice cream they can go somewhere else. - "That response is toxic and you are greifing me, I am being greifed by you eating ice cream. Someone help me, I am being greifed, Rare I'm reporting a greifer. Help me Rare I'm being greifed"

    That, along with the rest of the game's toxicity, has led me to just not care about what happens with this game; kind of like how you're supposed to go into the sessions, I really don't care if [SoT] wins or loses because I'm just gonna have fun playing around with all you fine folk!

    All of the toxicity I run into is from PvE players. I don't initiate or start it. I come over and attack a player and they are calling me names, yelling into the mic, dropping f-bombs n-bombs C-bombs. I haven't said anything at this point. All I did was shoot their boat, board and kill them and spawn camp them till they sink because I'm solo.

    I made a post and asked other players what they run into and its finally being noticed that PvE players are just as toxic if not worse.

    You want proof on how this community is welcoming and helpful towards players that don't act like whiny crying little snowflake babies??

    Look at the differences in the threads where players "ASK" for advice and help with something.

    "Hey guys, I'm new to the game. I was on a sloop and got attacked by a Galleon. How can I beat this situation?? Any advice?? - The thread is filled with posts of PvP'ers and PvE'ers coming together to give advice on how to sail, what to look out for. How to prepare. Guides, links to videos, players willing to help players by friending and sailing with them.

    The community isn't toxic nor is it filled with greifers we just don't like players coming in and demanding that the core mechanics of the game be changed because they refuse to get better at the game and we don't like that their first post is name calling all of us and saying that the game we love is horrible and not fun unless their demands are met.

    "I'm new to this game and this game is trash. Greifers everywhere, my mom divorced my dad because I cry over every little thing that hurts my feelings, and this game is too toxic. This game needs a way to protect players because it is IMPOSSIBLE to play this solo, or with friends, or just simply impossible because its impossible for me. Anyone who disagrees is toxic and a greifer." - These posts. This is basically the PvE server posts. Why would we want to be nice to this type of player. If you look at the PvE posts and look at the way they address the community, they are the ones being toxic right?? Name calling everyone, saying everyone is a trash PvP player.

    The other problem is the sheer reluctance to learn anything in the game and its not because the PvE players complaining can't do it, they just don't want to.

    Post after post and even the rando's I play with sometimes - "I don't want to constantly look over the horizon" - well you kind of have to - "I don't want to, I'm not attacking anyone they need to leave me alone or I'll report them for greifing!!"

    Try to tell them to leave a person on the ship as look out and they dont want to. No one wants to be the lookout because they get bored. Anchor dropped with sails being down.

    It has nothing to do with capabilities. They are more than capable. They just don't want to.

    I used to train PvE'ers to at least learn how to protect their ships but I couldn't do it anymore. The same mistakes and arguments over and over.

    SoT is a great game, I just wish they wouldn't have caved so much under the pressure of all this whining and crying. The community shines when you see it work like it should, however people want to focus on the toxic PvE'ers that just threaten everyone and make demands left and right.

  • @markedseven52 you played since 3 day, and rageing now? did you noticed about the pirates in the game intro, and the THIEVES word in the game title? I think it answer your question.

  • To whoever keeps trying to compare EVE online to this, EVE has safe areas for players to mine and do what they want and they have PVP areas. the mainly safe zones have NPC battleships that swoop in and destroy any players that randomly attack others without permission. unless they took that feature out, that type of "safe area" is completely different then SoT. which SoT doesnt have and will never have, as I dont see the devs spawning in 3 different Skelly galleons to pop up real quick and sink whoever PVPs near safe areas lol.

    So stop equating EVE as it is completely different from SoT, even in its PVP aspects as those help the player market as you mentioned and have greater effects then just for "LOLs" it actually has important strategic value, not "this guy got close to me, away from my loot!!"

  • @xultanis-dragon as a whole I agree with you, but I think there needs to be the statement that excessive spawn killing (without the intent of sinking the ship) is griefing. That is part of the reason why scuttling exists and it is on the defender to recognize the situation, but it is also on the attack to have grace in victory.

    There is a rising community of players that are just focused on TDM and have no regard for ships that I think is truly toxic. Stealing, fine, sinking ships, keep it up. But, wasting everyones time by endlessly tracking down the same players just to try to fight gets pretty old.

  • @captain-fob4141 said in Griefing peaceful players needs Gameplay Punishment:

    @xultanis-dragon as a whole I agree with you, but I think there needs to be the statement that excessive spawn killing (without the intent of sinking the ship) is griefing. That is part of the reason why scuttling exists and it is on the defender to recognize the situation, but it is also on the attack to have grace in victory.

    If scuttling wasn't part of the game then I would completely agree that spawn camping just for the sake of spawn camping would be greifing. However since the scuttle option is in the game the focus on the actual act has now been removed and shift to the players control.

    Look at it this way -

    If a the enemy players sink the ship, then its sunk right??

    If its scuttled, the ship is still sunk.

    The end result is the same, regardless of how it happens. The ship is under water and you lose everything. The only issue now is who sinks the ship and the feelings of the player.

    Without the scuttle function then the player is at the whim of the enemy. They have to sit there and take it, its out of their control.

    With the scuttle function the player has full control over the situation. However, they don't want to scuttle because it makes them feel bad that they were forced to admit defeat and leave. They have to do it themselves and it doesn't sit right with them but why should we care about that?? They feel ashamed and embarrassed. Thats nothing but pride and ego. Vanity.

    Again, the end result is the same.

    Either the enemy sinks you, or you scuttle your boat, the result is that your ship sinks. The only problem is the players emotional hang up. I say tell them to grow up and admit they lost and move on. Plain and simple.

    There is a rising community of players that are just focused on TDM and have no regard for ships that I think is truly toxic. Stealing, fine, sinking ships, keep it up. But, wasting everyones time by endlessly tracking down the same players just to try to fight gets pretty old.

    I've run into these and I've only ran into 1 types. They will TDM and if you bother them they will spawn camp you until you leave the lobby. I haven't met a group that actively goes after players that don't participate in the TDM. They only go after you if you disrupt them.

    To clarify, even if you interrupt them, the part where they gang up on a ship, I don't approve as it goes against the core of the Arena. I will help anyone in that situation and kill the TDM'ers, stay in the lobby and attack them every game. I will record and report and they do get banned it looks like because everyone I've reported that does that stops showing up on sea of thieves.

    My stance is that if you want to TDM and people want to join. Thats cool thats fine but you are in the arena and I don't condone the ganging up on a ship trying to force them out of the lobby for not TDM'ing. The mode is for Arena, not for TDM's.

    Do I consider the spawn camping greifing in Arena in this situation?? No. Again, scuttle function is there. Do I consider it exploitation and cheating in a way?? Yes. If you want to TDM thats fine, TDM. If someone interrupts you, just sink them and if they come back just keep sinking them. I draw the line where the ships gang up on the ship to try and force him out though.

    My stances are completely based on the situation. I wouldn't consider this a bad thing in adventure. Attacking someone to force them out of the server I'd be okay with. If someone has an legitimate alliance going and they want the ship out for protection reasons, or someone is trying to trigger a server merge. I'm okay with it.

    I hope I explained my stances accurately though. Thank you.

  • @elderterdkin said in Griefing peaceful players needs Gameplay Punishment:

    To whoever keeps trying to compare EVE online to this, EVE has safe areas for players to mine and do what they want and they have PVP areas. the mainly safe zones have NPC battleships that swoop in and destroy any players that randomly attack others without permission. unless they took that feature out, that type of "safe area" is completely different then SoT. which SoT doesnt have and will never have, as I dont see the devs spawning in 3 different Skelly galleons to pop up real quick and sink whoever PVPs near safe areas lol.

    So stop equating EVE as it is completely different from SoT, even in its PVP aspects as those help the player market as you mentioned and have greater effects then just for "LOLs" it actually has important strategic value, not "this guy got close to me, away from my loot!!"

    I don't think you ever played EvE online have you??

    Can swapping, scanning player missions and stealing their loot, war declarations in high sec. Drone baiting, bumping. STATION CAMPING. There are so many ways to get around the NPC's but even the NPC's don't help.

    There is no "safe space" in EvE Online. The hulkageddon event I mentioned has players suiciding those miners and getting paid out for it. The attacker loses nothing the player who died loses everything.

    JITA - Oh my god the trading hub of the game. Players scan your ships cargo or your ship set up, suicide you and their partner takes your loot. They take out billion isk haulers with 100m ships and take your that drops, not to mention you usually get podded when that happens.

    Broski, what safe space are you talking about?? Just because the NPC's are there doesn't mean that players don't get attacked or that they are safe by any margin of the word. No one flies the hulk anymore because it get suicided immediately. In high sec even.

    I use EvE as an example because players are saying that "EVERY GAME HAS PVE SERVERS, SAFE SPACES, PROTECTION FOR PLAYERS, NO GAME WILL EVER SURVIVE THIS TYPE OF PVP WHINE WHINE WHINE" - and it doesn't. Not every game.

  • @xultanis-dragon sorry there is a TDM community in adventure mode not just arena now.

    Again. I agree with respects to the scuttle option, but I dont think spawn killing as an end should be encouraged. I personally think that it is the only form of griefing you can do to another player and even then. Only if you are doing so without any attempt at ship to ship combat

  • @captain-fob4141 said in Griefing peaceful players needs Gameplay Punishment:

    @xultanis-dragon sorry there is a TDM community in adventure mode not just arena now.

    Again. I agree with respects to the scuttle option, but I dont think spawn killing as an end should be encouraged. I personally think that it is the only form of griefing you can do to another player and even then. Only if you are doing so without any attempt at ship to ship combat

    The original meaning of the word Greifing was coined when high level players would circumvent protection mechanics in the game and kill low level players keeping them from playing the game.

    Example is a high level player finding a glitch spot in a rock or something where the NPC's can't get him and hes killing the low levels so they can't leave town or do quests, and there is nothing they can do since they are physically trapped in that town or unable to progress in the game to turn in the quest. The NPC's are there to kill the aggressors so the enemy player might be able to kill you once but guards kill them as recourse.

    Spawn camping is neither or those things.

    I understand what you are saying, you want to discourage that kind of behavior, but I'm the opposite. I don't think the behavior of the spawn camper is the issue. Behavior aside he isn't doing anything bad.

    True or false - A player chooses to be spawn camped?? In my mind this is true 100%.

    You can not be spawn camped in this game against your will.

    You died and realize the enemy has your ship on lockdown?? Scuttle. Ship sinks problem ended. You go to the next ship.

    The outcome is the same regardless of who sinks the ship. The player or the enemy. Ship is going under. The only discrepancy is how the player feels scuttling the ship.

    Spawn camping might seem evil but its very hard to verify the intent. I spawn camp for supplies. I spawn camp people who say vulgar things on the mic to teach them a lesson of the laws of the jungle. I never spawn camp just to spawn camp.

    What happens when I get spawn camped?? I don't. The second I spawn in and feel as if spawning back is a waste of time, I scuttle, spawn at new ship, resupply on the way and attack the enemy ship.

    I think if we focused on the players being camped and helping them realize that moving on and accepting defeat is okay, that players will be able to cope with losing better.

    "hey its okay to scuttle, just get to the new ship, and come back and try again. If they sink you, scuttle and try again. Keep trying over and over. Who cares if you lose you only need to win once right?? Maybe you won't win this time or the next, but eventually you'll get better and sooner or later you'll win one."

    I want to help the maturity grow in the community.

    However, thank you for your stance. I can see that we will probably never agree on this point but thats fine. If you have anything else you would like to share if you feel as if you haven't described your stance in full I will definitely like to read it. If you said your peace then so be it. Either way nice of you to participate.

  • @xultanis-dragon Spawn camping isn't griefing?

    I thumb my nose at you, for you are a troll of colossal proportions.

  • @herrdave3849 said in Griefing peaceful players needs Gameplay Punishment:

    @xultanis-dragon Spawn camping isn't griefing?

    I thumb my nose at you, for you are a troll of colossal proportions.

    How do you define ‘griefing’ then, because we seem to have very different meanings for the word from one another. Nothing @Xultanis-Dragon said seems trollish at all. It was a very clear explanation.

  • @herrdave3849 said in Griefing peaceful players needs Gameplay Punishment:

    @xultanis-dragon Spawn camping isn't griefing?

    I thumb my nose at you, for you are a troll of colossal proportions.

    Broski, how am I trolling?? I'm explaining my position as much as I can.

    Can spawn camping be greifing in other games. Yes entirely because in certain games there is no way to get out of said situation.

    I just thought of the perfect example actually. In planetside 2, you can spawn camp players. You can keep them inside the spawn location by surrounding it and killing them as they leave.

    Now the reason why this isn't greifing is because in this game you can CHOOSE your spawn location. Not to mention you have to spawn camp the enemy so that you can capture the bases so they don't recapture it. However, they can choose where to spawn. So they can get out of the situation and move on.

    This game is the exact same, you can scuttle your ship and move on. Spawn camping in this game isn't like spawn camping in other games. Greifing in other games isn't the same type of greifing in this game.

    I don't see how anything I said is trollish however. I've explained my position in different ways to try and hopefully help people understand my position and why I have this stance.

  • @xultanis-dragon So if you're being spawn-camped, and the thing you're supposed to do is just scuttle your ship, why not make it more abundantly clear to the player being spawn-camped?

    Why doesn't the game pop-up an alert (like when your ship gets damaged) to tell you to scuttle your ship, and also how to do so?

    Because currently the option to scuttle is somewhat hidden... I mean, it takes fewer "clicks" to lock a fellow crewmate in the brig than it does to properly get out of a spawn-camping situation? That seems pretty backwards..

    But I assume we're on the same page because (like you said) the way to get of this situation is to scuttle your ship, so there should at least be a way for new players know how to get out of such situations.

  • @thagoochiestman said in Griefing peaceful players needs Gameplay Punishment:

    @xultanis-dragon So if you're being spawn-camped, and the thing you're supposed to do is just scuttle your ship, why not make it more abundantly clear to the player being spawn-camped?

    Why doesn't the game pop-up an alert (like when your ship gets damaged) to tell you to scuttle your ship, and also how to do so?

    Because currently the option to scuttle is somewhat hidden... I mean, it takes fewer "clicks" to lock a fellow crewmate in the brig than it does to properly get out of a spawn-camping situation? That seems pretty backwards..

    But I assume we're on the same page because (like you said) the way to get of this situation is to scuttle your ship, so there should at least be a way for new players know how to get out of such situations.

    Yeah I'm fine with that. No reason for scuttle to not be easier. Could be after the second death in a 2minute period they could have the lantern in the ferry of the damned start glowing and players can just push a button on it to vote to scuttle, or whatever.

    Think of an easier way to let players learn how to scuttle or making the option to scuttle easier to access, I'd be for it.

    SIDE NOTE They can go as far as letting the Pirate Lord make a cameo or have Davy Jones tell the pirates who lost that scuttling their ship isn't the end of their voyage, only another chance at regaining what was lost or another chance at adventure. That way players wouldn't feel so ashamed by scuttling.

    I don't want players to feel ashamed or embarrassed by scuttling. I want them to know its okay and not anything that they should feel judged about. Scuttle, try again or fight again. Winning and losing is all part of the game.

    SIDE NOTE 2 I'll say this here and I know I've mentioned it before.

    If you ever hear PvP'ers on your boat say "Hah I dare you to scuttle" or if they are taunting you into scuttling. Don't think to yourself "no way am I scuttling now, thats exactly what they want." This is a complete lie. Scuttle your boat.

    PvP'ers get more satisfaction from you repeatedly coming back to your boat and dying. They don't want you to scuttle. They are using reverse psychology to keep you from scuttling. Running away, going out into the red sea. Those are the tactics that make PvP'ers angry and triggered.

    You want to make a PvP'er happy?? Just sit there and refuse to scuttle your boat. They enjoy it.

    You want to make a PvP'er rage and triggered?? Scuttle your boat, learn to run away and use boarding tactics and play defensively, go out into the red sea.

    You want to eventually learn to get better at the game, then learn PvP. Join up groups, attack ships. When you are the big dog on the server you get to make the decisions. You attacked a ship and beat it, you can take some supplies to replenish your own. Tell the ship GG and make an alliance and just tell them you are practicing PvP. You don't have to sink anyone, you don't have to be the jerk you think PvP'ers are. However PvP'ers do run the server they are on.

    Enjoy both aspects of the game and learn how to do PvPvE. This game would be 100000 times better if people didn't get emotionally hung up on losing loot that is piled EVERYWHERE.

  • @thagoochiestman I want to point out that is exactly why the note was added to the ferry, and again why the language was made more clear.

  • @captain-coel Ya, I don't think that actually cuts it for new players. It seems (from the responses here) that knowing how to scuttle is just as important as knowing how to repair/load cannons/watch the horizon.

    Then throw in the fact that new players don't know how to guard their ladders—something the game also doesn't teach players—and it quickly becomes apparent that this should be made much more visible for new players.

  • @xultanis-dragon said in Griefing peaceful players needs Gameplay Punishment:

    @thagoochiestman said in Griefing peaceful players needs Gameplay Punishment:

    @xultanis-dragon said in Griefing peaceful players needs Gameplay Punishment:

    EvE Online in the early days was amazing. All the tears lol. Repeatedly players would buy the game and instantly go "where are the PvE servers." then they realize how harsh the game is and then for years would beg for PvE servers. The best part. You put a target on your back. You couldn't make an forum account without an actual player account so it was tied. Whatever you posted in the forums was your character.

    So it was a really bad move for PvE players to beg for PvE servers when they are in a corporation or alliance because that just painted an even bigger target on your friends.

    Man I should really go take a look at that game again, its been a good while.

    So it sure sounds like you enjoy going after PVE players...

    Which was actually my original hypothesis: all of the commenters who huff and puff about how there should never be PVE-servers really just don't want all of the people they can (easily) beat to leave the game...

    Maybe it's actually because these commenters only like fighting unsuspecting crews? Maybe they're worried they'd lose if they had to go head-to-head against other PVP-thirsty pirates?

    I mean, why else would these commenters never mention any suggestions to improve Arena? Only saying "it's so bad" with 0 ideas to improve it?

    Again you missed the point entirely. EvE Online like SoT is a PvPvE game. There is no PvE or PvP. Its both at all times. Players who bought and played EvE online thought like other PvE players that if they cry a bunch the devs will cave and give them PvE servers or at least a safe space. Dev's didn't do that. Dev's stuck to the original idea of their game and it flourished. Still the greatest MMORPG in my opinion. The stories of sabotage, the wars to take over space, the ability to control the ingame market (which is completely player generated) by disguising it as an event when really you are just paying out hitmen.

    SIDE NOTE No lie, if anyone is an economics major, then look into EvE Online market place. Its is a real market structure. Supply, demand, and location. Completely player driven. Everything for sale on the market is sold and bought by players and prices decided by players. There is no sell to NPC.

    I made Billions, which is actually quiet a lot in the game, by controlling the market for a high in demand PvP module.

    Alliance called Goonswarm manipulated the ore and materials market with that hulkageddon event. Prices sky rocketed for everything because now even the easiest farm-able ore was in short supply. Prices double or tripled. You should really look into it.

    That is the type of game EvE online is, and players still for SOME REASON think that it should have PvE safe space. They are making demands to change the core structure of the game and for what?? Because they dont like their feelings being hurt??

    You assume that players who don't want PvE servers are PvP players who go after PvE players. That is untrue. A lot of the Players that shut down PvE servers aren't just PvP players but PvE players that realize how important PvP is to the game structure and to the world.

    This idea that the game is one or the other is where most of the problems come from. This is not and I repeat for the 100000000th time. This is not PvE or PvP.

    While PvE'ing you have to watch out for other ships, while PvP'ing you have to take into account PvE encouters.

    I mean, why else would these commenters never mention any suggestions to improve Arena? Only saying "it's so bad" with 0 ideas to improve it?

    Arena isn't suppose to be a PvP server nor did anyone really want it. Arena isn't suppose to cater to the PvP crowd. Its suppose to cater to the players who only have 30mins or an hour to play each session so that they can play Sea of Thieves.

    See its beliefs like this that are the issue. Not every game needs to cater to every play style, not every game needs to have a PvE safe space, the belief that games will suffer from not catering to PvE players is for a fact false. EvE online is proof of that and the belief that catering to PvE players can hurt games like these is proven by Elite Dangerous.

    Sorry buddy again, should take feelings out of the equation and look at things objectively. This game is not meant for PvE or PvP. Its a PvPvE game.

    I like you.

    I have a titan. Want to see it?

165
Posts
104.6k
Views
128 out of 165