As someone who plays for PvP, I checked my stats and saw how many ships I have sunk, cool and all but I wanna see how many pirates I've killed and how manu times I've died
As a tdmer I want kills and deaths
I have to say no to that. I PvP in games with KD and I see how obsessed many people who I game with are with their KD stats, obsessed to a unhealthy level. It is actually kind of nice SOT does not have it.
Maybe if it was kept private though? Like its not on display for others.
Dont worry though doesnt matter if I said no to it, I do not work for Rare, just my opinion.
Ships aren't really able to be farmed like pvp kills are
People having super high counts because they spawn killed new players until they quit every chance they got isn't interesting to me
In theory it would be cool but the numbers wouldn't tell the story as much as sinking a ship does imo
and friends on the same server would just make those numbers ridiculous for "status"
@combatxkitty Well what if they just added how many ships you sank and how many killS you got but not how often you died and sunk?
@insaiity Maybe that could work but I could still see people getting all wierd and crazy about having the highest kill rate. Maybe have it just be an arena stat?
I can just see people padding it by spawn killing newbies because i know people who do that in games that have stats like that. I just find it refreshing SOT isn't about that but I guess I can see where it makes sense in arena.
@insaiity said in As a tdmer I want kills and deaths:
@combatxkitty Well what if they just added how many ships you sank and how many killS you got but not how often you died and sunk?
The thing about ship sinks is that there's no way to tie a single ship to it's sinking, because a ship doesn't sink because another pirate hit them with cannons-a ship sinks because it took on too much water, and that calculation gets ornery. What if it were a 3 way naval combat? Or a 2 on 1? Or what if the ships were fighting and then the ship suddenly realizes it has a chest of sorrow onboard and goes down?
There's a number of variables here, and the only killer of ships is the seas themselves.
Any kind of PvP stat tracking will only further promote PvP, disrupting the carefully laid out PvEvP balance we already have now. It's why they haven't already implemented it. Also, implementing it privately won't work either because pirates are greedy, self-absorbed, and arrogant - in other words, they're going to share it anyways in order to prop themselves up.
@combatxkitty said in As a tdmer I want kills and deaths:
I have to say no to that. I PvP in games with KD and I see how obsessed many people who I game with are with their KD stats, obsessed to a unhealthy level. It is actually kind of nice SOT does not have it.
Maybe if it was kept private though? Like its not on display for others.
Dont worry though doesnt matter if I said no to it, I do not work for Rare, just my opinion.
i agree. well i do teamdeathmatches and some adventure loot steals and everything else, i dont usually farm and i would consider myself a somewhat clean player, in a way where i dont camp 24/7, and i do sink people in adventure over spawncamping or farming kills, but in arena tdms i fight players with high calliber so i just wanna see how many overall kills i have, over 2 years of playing im curious haha
Any kind of PvP stat tracking will only further promote PvP
Weird. I know how many chests I've cashed in, yet I don't feel compelled to obsessively dig more. I doubt I'll feel the need to fight every kraken I come across either.
@COMBATxKITTY said:
I PvP in games with KD and I see how obsessed many people who I game with are with their KD stats
Is there anything else to be obsessed with in those games, other than K/D?
I guess my point is that this game has so much to offer, that people might continue to obsess over whatever interests them already. Stats would just make it easier to track their progress.
People who red-sea their loot are probably not going to start aggressively spawncamping just because they can track their K/D.
@galactic-geek said:
pirates are... going to share it anyways in order to prop themselves up.
Why would that bother you? People already throw on various titles and cosmetics to show off. They take clips and screenshot of various accomplishments and milestones, and make montages. Does any of this bother you?
@theblackbellamy said:
Why would that bother you? People already throw on various titles and cosmetics to show off. They take clips and screenshot of various accomplishments and milestones, and make montages. Does any of this bother you?
Those won't adversely affect PvP. Having a public K/D ratio incentivizes pirates to attack each other for no reason other than to improve an arbitrary number, which is not the reason we sail the Sea; it will also negatively impact those who prefer PvE, or who are inexperienced, or young, or any combination of the above.
@theblackbellamy said in As a tdmer I want kills and deaths:
Any kind of PvP stat tracking will only further promote PvP
Weird. I know how many chests I've cashed in, yet I don't feel compelled to obsessively dig more. I doubt I'll feel the need to fight every kraken I come across either.
@COMBATxKITTY said:
I PvP in games with KD and I see how obsessed many people who I game with are with their KD stats
Is there anything else to be obsessed with in those games, other than K/D?
Depends on the game. If its just a straight up PvP game then no there isnt (well I cant totally say no there are always things to unlock or what not but yes KD is much more important in PvP games) but I mean that makes sense to me to have it in the game. I do play some PvPvE games with it and yes there is plenty of other things one can do than be obsessed with KD yet people obsess over it, I just think SOT is a nice break from that. In PvPvE type modes I guess I just do not see the point of KD ratio. Also how would it even be listed publicly? There is no players list to click on so who would even see it?
I guess my point is that this game has so much to offer, that people might continue to obsess over whatever interests them already. Stats would just make it easier to track their progress.
People who red-sea their loot are probably not going to start aggressively spawncamping just because they can track their K/D.
True, some wont care other will care very much. I guess like I said I just do not see these stats as a need in adventure mode since its PvPvE but maybe more arena type thing.
You arent wrong though maybe would be nice to track progress, I would still say I would be ok with it being private. Yes I know some people will still care or screen shot but I mean I think it would be a fair compromise to those who want to track their stats. I think if it was a private stat not so many would be as crazed about it and ones that are well they are probably going around killing everyone anyways, private stat or no private stat.
Just my thoughts.
@galactic-geek said in As a tdmer I want kills and deaths:
Any kind of PvP stat tracking will only further promote PvP, disrupting the carefully laid out PvEvP balance we already have now. It's why they haven't already implemented it. Also, implementing it privately won't work either because pirates are greedy, self-absorbed, and arrogant - in other words, they're going to share it anyways in order to prop themselves up.
I agree implementing it privately you will still have people who will screen shot or still get over infatuated with it but would it be as much as if it was public? I can understand why some would like to track their stats as it can be kind of interesting. I went on a game once where I tracked my stats and I killed over 20,000 other players which was rather shocking to see.
@surveyorpete its not a pve game either. its a pvp and pve game. its called sea of thieves. not sea of friends smh
@vorxet sagte in As a tdmer I want kills and deaths:
As someone who plays for PvP, I checked my stats and saw how many ships I have sunk, cool and all but I wanna see how many pirates I've killed and how manu times I've died
then maybe play a game with a TDM Mode and k/d ratio and killcount etc...
Unnecessary and attracting the wrong players for SoT.
@vorxet sagte in As a tdmer I want kills and deaths:
its called sea of thieves. not sea of friends
i play with friends all the time
oh and Thieves aren't Murderers :D@vorxet
your playstyle is causing self inflicted problems as you can see.
your suggestion want to overcome this, but it does not fit other playstyles and would lead to people compare themself, rate about others depending on their stats and in the worst case beeing elitist about it.
This always inflicts more toxcity like you can see for many competetive games and communities.@VORXET, you said:
@surveyorpete its not a pve game either. its a pvp and pve game. its called sea of thieves. not sea of friends smh
I did not say Sea of Thieves is a PVE game. I simply said it is not a DeathMatch game.
Let's look at a couple of definitions. First from https://www.webopedia.com/TERM/D/deathmatch.html :
Deathmatch, or DM, is a type of gameplay mode found in first-person-shooter games. The objective of a deathmatch is to frag as many players in the game as possible while keeping yourself from being fragged. When the game ends either by gamers reaching the end of the level or a preset time or frag count limit, the gamerwho accumulated the most frags in the DM game is the winner of the deathmatch.
And from https://www.giantbomb.com/deathmatch/3015-451/games/ :
A gameplay mode that pits two or more players in a fight to the death.
Finally, from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deathmatch :
Deathmatch, also known as free-for-all, is a widely used gameplay mode integrated into many shooters, including first-person shooter (FPS), and real-time strategy (RTS) video games. Normally the goal of a deathmatch game is to kill (or "frag") as many other players as possible until a certain condition or limit is reached, commonly a frag limit or a time limit. Once one of the conditions is met, the match is over...
It would seem from these that a Deathmatch game, or a Deathmatch mode within a game, assumes a couple of important things:
- That it is the objective of all players to kill (or 'frag') as many of their opponents as they can.
- There is an end to the match, determined by a time limit, or kill count, after which someone can be declared the winner.
While Sea of Thieves Arena has a time limit, and a reckoning of who won and who lost, Adventure does not. Not every player in Adventure is treating the game as a deathmatch. Some may try to sink your ship, and steal your loot, and they might kill you once or twice in the process; but that does not mean they are motivated to kill you as often as possible. Others will not be aggressive; but will defend themelves, their ship and their loot if attacked. Yet others will try to avoid fights.
Asking for stats for the number of players you have killed in Sea of Thieves is like a football player asking for stats on the number of opponents he knocked to the ground. Certainly, players do get knocked to the ground in all forms of football. But few players go onto the field intending to knock as many other players down as they can. Not everyone is playing the game the same way as you.
Because of this, is there were a K/D ratio counter available, yours would be skewed high because you are trying to kill other people, but they are not necessarily trying to kill you. Whereas you might keep their ship afloat so you can spawn kill them as often as possible, they might sink your ship so that, once they send you to the Ferry of the Damned, you respawn far away.
Sea of Thieves is NOT a Deathmatch game... Arena, maybe; but not Adventure.
... I do play some PvPvE games with it and yes there is plenty of other things one can do than be obsessed with KD yet people obsess over it...
That's fair. I guess the only games in which I noticed K/D were PvP. I don't have much experience in other PvPvE games, so I'll take your word for it.
In those other games, was K/D public? Because I feel like we might be on the same page if it was private in SoT.
... some wont care other will care very much... would be nice to track progress... I think if it was a private stat not so many would be as crazed about it and ones that are well they are probably going around killing everyone anyways, private stat or no...
This is pretty much how I feel lol. People who avoid PvP will continue to do so. People who love PvP will continue to engage in it.
Surely, there will be some people on the fence who get motivated to be more aggressive. But there will also be people who will play more carefully, so that their death count doesn't surpass their kill count. Maybe this would lead to less reckless, careless boarding, and give rise to more strategy-based combat?
@galactic-geek, you originally said:
implementing it privately won't work... because pirates are greedy, self-absorbed, and arrogant... they're going to share it anyways
To which I asked why anyone sharing it would bother you. You replied:
Having a public K/D ratio incentivizes pirates to attack each other...
So again, what if it's private?
It will also negatively impact those who prefer PvE, or who are inexperienced, or young, or any combination of the above.
Private data by itself should not negatively impact anyone. Unless K/D is tied to restricted content or titles or cosmetics, how would PvE-focused or new players suffer?
@bugaboo-bill, @surveyorpete said:
Sea of Thieves is not a Deathmatch game.
This is true. This is also a pretty poor argument for why we shouldn't be able to see our K/D. Perhaps they should stop tracking our meg encounters, as this isn't what the game is really about?
The game isn't called "Sea of Naval Battles" or "Sea of Puke" either, yet we can see and track our sinks and times vomited.
It is called "Sea of Thieves", yet I don't see a stat on how much stolen loot I've cashed in. And while it isn't called "Sea of Murder", sometimes thieving necessitates it just as much as sinking the opponent. It is an important part of this game, and I don't see an issue in wanting to track your success with it.
The other problem with KDR is the elitism it brings more so than anything else in this game.
KDR is an absolute garbage stat to base things off of. There were a few games I played where KDR was the main stat to go by. A lot of games do actually.
Is KDR like other stats in the game?? Negative
Are other stats in the game as largely obsessed as KDR?? Negative.
KDR is a very elitist stat. Saying that chests are equal to KDR is a poor comparison since the community will never look at chests as a way to proof your PvP capability. They could look at it and it can suggest your experience in PvP and how much of it you have possibly engaged in, but players will flaunt KDR in a very toxic matter implying that anyone else who has less than is a scrub.
I've seen it for Halo in the early days, in quake, CS. I've seen it in every SINGLE game that has a KDR. Every. single. game.
Making them private also doesn't do anything. Nothing is private online.
"Oh hey I have a stat that is private but I want to show other players...SCREENSHOT" -
I'm sorry but KDR should never be added to ANY game. I absolutely hate it. Just ruins everything. Smurfing, stat farming, the cliques and elitism.
Example of how bad it is -
A game I used to play A LOT of for a few years had a KDR. Players would pound their chests in pride with 3.0 kdr and what not. Could never play with those players because the second something happens in the match they go straight to the stats and would just blame the whole team. Saying that they are pro because of their kdr.
Heres the thing, the actual professionals for games like that have a KDR of around 1.4 to 0.8. The actual professionals have lower kdr because they are playing the game as a team and not stat farming.
I'm sorry man, there is absolutely NO benefit game wise to have KDR. Its vanity.
@VORXET
No, as stated above.
@theblackbellamy said in As a tdmer I want kills and deaths:
... I do play some PvPvE games with it and yes there is plenty of other things one can do than be obsessed with KD yet people obsess over it...
That's fair. I guess the only games in which I noticed K/D were PvP. I don't have much experience in other PvPvE games, so I'll take your word for it.
In those other games, was K/D public? Because I feel like we might be on the same page if it was private in SoT.
Yes it is public and it just doesnt add anything positive and actually creates a ton of negative. I mean I will say one positive it does for me is if someone has a super low KD I will not seek out to kill them but this is a game with radar and players lists unlike SOT where you really do not know who you are about to attack.
As long as its a private stat though I do not really see too big an issue so I think we are on the same page.
Im just not sure if this stat should be available for adventure mode and arena or just arena. However I do see why people would be interested in their stats in both games modes.
@theblackbellamy its because vomiting and naval battles are more adventerous and fun than anyones killing spree.
The Arena TDM'ers and some Streamers already aproach SoT a special pvp focussed way that fits only them and in general call other playstyles bots, PvE Lords, carebears, whiners etc.
I dont think we need more PvP centric elitism here and in general and i grant you people will look up your stats and tell you that you are bad, that your opinion is not worth anything and not valuable because you played less, killed less, sunk less etc. etc.
It's already done by searching for the meters sailed and stuff.
Of course someone who hasn't played the game at all or very less or hasnt killed many players in PvP has an opinion you maybe value less, because of that, but that doesnt mean the opinion or suggestion of someone with 5 Miles sailed and no one killed has no value.
But the trend is for sure that people voice you down because of their meritocracy aproach about gaming.
But this all has nothing to do with a roleplay fun comical pirate adventure!@xultanis-dragon said in As a tdmer I want kills and deaths:
The other problem with KDR is the elitism it brings more so than anything else in this game.
KDR is an absolute garbage stat to base things off of. There were a few games I played where KDR was the main stat by. A lot of games do actually.
Is KDR like other stats in the game?? Negative
Are other stats in the game as largely obsessed as KDR?? Negative.
KDR is a very elitist stat. Saying that chests are equal to KDR is a poor comparison since the community will never look at chests as a way to proof your PvP capability. They could look at it and it can suggest your experience in PvP and how much of it you have possibly engaged in, but players will flaunt KDR in a very toxic matter implying that anyone else who has less than is a scrub.
I've seen it for Halo in the early days, in quake, CS. I've seen it in every SINGLE game that has a KDR. Every. single. game.
Making them private also doesn't do anything. Nothing is private online.
"Oh hey I have a stat that is private but I want to show other players...SCREENSHOT" -
I'm sorry but KDR should never be added to ANY game. I absolutely hate it. Just ruins everything. Smurfing, stat farming, the cliques and elitism.
**> Example of how bad it is -
A game I used to play A LOT of for a few years had a KDR. Players would pound their chests in pride with 3.0 kdr and what not. Could never play with those players because the second something happens in the match they go straight to the stats and would just blame the whole team. Saying that they are pro because of their kdr.
**Yes the KDR chest pounders! Are you talking about GTAO? I had friends in that game who would grab a jet and terrorize an entire lobby or spawn kill newbies non stop to boost thier KD. Some would even have their friends set up a second account and they would sit and spawn kill them to pad it, then would brag about it lol. I had one friend and their KD went from bellow average to all sudden higher and I found out she padded it killing her boyfriends character over and over again and she was so cocky about it too.
People will literally take the easy way out over and over or avoid fighting skilled players just so their KD doesnt drop. Call them KD warriors. I remember once I was doing an event , had to defend area from lobby and literally every person in lobby showed up. My team was holding its own but one of my friends left because they were like "im out my KD is going to drop!".
There is just a fine line with that stat. Im not going to lie as a female gamer when I enter a session and 9/10 I have the highest KD I do enjoy it but I mean there is a balance ya know? Still have to play clean, still have to fight skilled opponents, still have to have fun but some people just cant handle it.
Not GTAO, but pretty much exactly that. The game was relentless with KDR peeps. I'm okay with someone having a good KDR but its clear as day the type of player you are playing with when their KDR is higher than the marginal standards.
Either you are playing with a selfish player that is only going to help when they get a kill or you are playing with a player who NEVER plays support type characters.
I remember 1 match in the game the ganker would initiate, we would go in and the second he gets his kill he runs, leaves us to die. We could win the engagement if he would just stay and help, granted he would probably die, but that was the issue.
Players that would rather lose a game than hurt their stats. I freaking HATE those types of players. They pick characters or go builds that deal all the damage on the team and then when it comes time to commit they bail.
Funny thing is that I trust players who have a KDR of 1.0 or less over anyone who has a 2.0 or 3.0 in any game. Players with lower KDR's usually mean they are a team player and play with the team. I trust players like that.
@xultanis-dragon @COMBATxKITTY
The diehard KDR players are the easiest to spot on the battlefield. 2.5 KD? Imma go chill in the back. 1.3 KD with bad weapons? I'll let my team get the kills, and then pick up their weapons.
@xultanis-dragon Oh no you would not trust me :( Well I will be honest I would not trust me either but honestly I am a fair clean player and I do RnG and only attack on level players, players who are greifing others or players who attacked me first.
As long as you aren't the type to just run solo everywhere camping a spot just to get kills I think we'll be okay.
Its just almost if not all players with high KDR's are really bad team players.
Its like that one rando player that keeps screaming hes good at PvP and the second you get into a fight with another ship he is already off boat trying to board even after someone already called going off ship. Your ship got shot to hell but he doesn't care. Everything that involves the ship; steering, repairs, sails, or anchor is completely not his problem. I hate players like those because when the boat sinks they scream at the crew about why we let the boat sink. When you sink because he just doesn't care and wants to feel like a bad'ss double gunning.
@SuperSnipper60
Dead on pretty much.
I'm with @Xultanis-Dragon in regards to stat-tracking. We don't really need it.
Another game I like to play, PUBG, has a similar stat: wins. Anyone who knows Battle Royale knows that stat isn't easy to come by with 1v99. Still, looking up LFGs for that game, there are players that won't accept you unless you have over 2,000+. I mean, really? Most who claim those stats aren't even legit, having been padded and carried in squad matches (1/25). Meanwhile, I have like 4 simply because I often solo like I do in SoT. It's not that I'm a bad player - I just don't have help with better odds; yet, I'm still looked down upon as a result.
@xultanis-dragon Nah thats not how I roll. I love going right into where the action is at.
I actually have a program called "RPG's for Spawn Campers". Every spawn camper gets one free RPG shot over to them courtesy of me.
I will say I do like fighting solo like doing 1v4 's or whatever but I can fight on a team if need be.
@xultanis-dragon i dont care about your opinion. i only want to see how many pirates i've slaughtered. not how skeletons i've killed. now shush please
@combatxkitty said in As a tdmer I want kills and deaths:
@galactic-geek said in As a tdmer I want kills and deaths:
Any kind of PvP stat tracking will only further promote PvP, disrupting the carefully laid out PvEvP balance we already have now. It's why they haven't already implemented it. Also, implementing it privately won't work either because pirates are greedy, self-absorbed, and arrogant - in other words, they're going to share it anyways in order to prop themselves up.
I agree implementing it privately you will still have people who will screen shot or still get over infatuated with it but would it be as much as if it was public? I can understand why some would like to track their stats as it can be kind of interesting. I went on a game once where I tracked my stats and I killed over 20,000 other players which was rather shocking to see.
exactly the reason i want to see how many people i've killed. not just in arena but adventure also, just an idea. over nearly 3 years and 6k hours i would expect that number to be pretty insane
I die a lot to skeletons. Would that affect the "D" part of my K/D ratio?
What about when I die to sharks, or venom, or lightning, or falling off a cliff?
What about if I am in a sword fight with another player, and walk backwards off a cliff?
What about when I emerge from the sea, nearly dead from a shark bite and drowning, and get finished off by another pirate? Does he earn that "Kill"?
A K/D ratio only makes sense when all players are trying to KILL other players as often as possible, and trying to ensure that they die to other players as little as possible. If Rare published K/D ratios, all the Tedium-ers will boast that theirs is 2.0 or 3.5 or 27.2! But it will be a meaningless boast because not every person they killed was playing the game with the same aims.
Ted Bundy's real-life K/D ratio was something like 35:0. But his victims were not playing the "serial killer" game that he was.
@surveyorpete Generally its broken down like KD as in player deaths and then NPC deaths. The KD ratio that OP is talking about would not involve any of what you listed. It would only be if a player killed you. If you are low on health and a player kills you then yes they would earn that kill but if a player almost kills you and you walk off a cliff and die then no they would not most likely.
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