Why Boarding should be fixed.

I’ve been playing since launch.
And I can say for myself, it should be easier to board than bashing a button. It hurts my finger and shouldn’t be that rough. If I miss, I now have to wait for the mermaid. (Sarcasm)

As many with again say. The tool is there. Anyone can do it and it doesn’t need fixing. Just watch the ladder, very simple

Heck I’ve seen people complain about boarding is too hard, where someone can use a blunder to simply pop them off.

Argument is less than fact, the same as those who want it to be easier. .

Why do you have like 5 posts repeating the same thing? Boarding is fine, hit reg isn’t. It is not good to try and balance something around a bug

@idneon said in Why Boarding should be fixed.:

2nd - the reason it should be fixed this way is because it helps PvE and casuals WITHOUT damaging PvP and improves chasing and running stages and forces more dynamic and interesting naval engagements.

If you are running or chasing a ship that is running then you probably aren't going to be able to engage in naval combat until one of your crew boards because mostly everyone that plays this game understand each ship has their own advantage with the wind and sails. I pvp and have literally chased ships for hours and their intention was to never engage just run and hope that we would lose interest. The only chance we had to engage them in naval combat was to have someone board and drop their anchor so that we could engage. Boarding is not the problem running is the problem.

@bugaboo-bill Naval combat without boarding can become long and drawn out. Boarding without any naval will also become long and drawn out. They go hand in hand, Bill.

Also, this has nothing to do with double gunning (or TDM, or exploits), yet here you are conflating your dislikes again. I've come across my fair share of sword and blundy boarders.

Retractable ladders would need to be balanced as with any other new feature. They would need to be destructible, repairable; and we should receive another tool to board with (e.g. grappling hook, boarding axe, etc.), to make boarding a maneuver or skill-based.

Till Rare has the time to add all this, grab some throwables and watch your ladders.

@bugaboo-bill

The idea gets voiced down always by the strong voice of those who dont want the boarding meta to be gone because all their PvP rely on pirate to pirate, not or very less on ship combat.

Well boarding is very pirate-like so it should be the most used tactic. If you want it to change then make it so the bucket cant hold so much water. Make it so after a couple of holes all cremembers have to buckt in order to not sink, otherwise boarding will forever be the best tactic.

The TDM'ers and some other pvpers are good at doublegunning only and using glitches or even exploit.

And there you go again spreading lies and misinformation. Nothing new here.

The idea unfortunately will get voiced down.

Yes of course it will, it's a bad idea...

@idneon

The problem - right now it is very easy to board, and the hit reg is very bad repelling boarding. While doing Kamikazes which virtually guarantee ladder-grabs, I estimate about 50% of defended ladders still get boarded just because of hit reg issues.

I can't remember the last time a kamikaze worked on our crew before. Its a garbage strategy that works on garbage crews. The fact that they let you get away with it shows how bad they are.

This is what happens when a crew decides to do this to us. First, we have them spotted long before approach, because unlike a lot of crews, we pay attention to the boats around us. This translates to everyone is on ship before the approach even happens. Second, we have anchor up, so unlike those PvE crews, we have cannons already trained on your perpendicular ship. This also translates to easy chain-shots, your deck getting lit up probably killing your crew members, holes from the cannons as well as the ram, and whatever keg play you were planning going up with smoke detonating on your own ship.

So while you may get that ladder grab, it does you absolutely no good because your ship is done. All we need to do is shoot you off ladder, an easy endeavor I might add, or kill you on our deck if you leapt on that way. It would be rather stupid of you to all dog-pile board, because you can't save your ship that way. So if you just drop a few, there is a chance you will be outnumbered if its a same ship. Even if it isn't, unless its a sloop and maybe a brig, you cant afford to relieve players from basic repair and bails.

2nd - the reason it should be fixed this way is because it helps PvE and casuals WITHOUT damaging PvP and improves chasing and running stages and forces more dynamic and interesting naval engagements.

It does damage things though, because not runners have even a more advantage. Before, as long as you maintained your most ideal wind, you draw out a chase. This is stupidly easy, that is why some chases can go for hours. Since wind doesn't change often, you might reach to red, this is one of the major moments to stop the chase with a board and grab anchor. Its way to small of a window to fight, so you really aren't left with a choice. Its a small window, because the chase is at max speed unlike during a fight where sails are lifted. You try to fight, and you just waste cannons and chains. You might get lucky and get one, but that is an easy fix if the crew is coordinated. Now they are back to running again.

This also damages PvP against other PvP'ers, they already grasp ladder defense, so now they have no means to sink a ship effectively. Good crews will not sink through ship combat alone. I can't remember the last time I sunk without having another player fighting us on their ship. You can bucket and patch for days while even getting bombarded back to the stone-age. Now ship fights become battles of attrition and they risk stagnated. It is easy to collect a lot of supplies, so essentially making it to who has more supplies is just dull. I've pvp-ed my entire SoT's career, this isn't me flexing, but I certainly spent the hours understanding this game and what the real problems are. You talk about how boring this meta is, but it will get extra so if you remove boarding. If anything, ask Rare for a form of matchmaking to get set against good crews. They won't let you get away with the stuff you pull on PvE'ers.

The problem for PvE'ers or people transiting is it becomes very easy to get boarded and wrecked by PvP'ers who are good at this type of engagement.

The problem for PvP'ers is it really has become the Meta and is, in my opinion, one of the most boring ways to play.

Both groups started at ground zero, why is it a problem one of those groups spend the effort learning the game? People who spend more time learning something tend to be better than those that refuse to or don't, who would have guessed? In other news, water is wet. You don't balance a game around its lowest common denominator. Just look at other games that take serious steps in balancing, League of Legends. If they took balancing lessons around the iron-bronze players, you would get rather dumb un-needed changes around warding. High elo teams ward, low elo don't. High elo teams watch roams, low elo don't. High elo teams keep tabs on the Jungler, low elo don't. Should those teams learn warding or does the developers need to rework the entire game just so they don't?

@idneon

Talking about the mechanic itself:

• The action to grab the ladder is as easy as the action to defend it by either sailing or blasting them off or killing them.

Balanced mechanic.

Learn to listen, learn to sail, learn to guard your ladder.

The thread doesnt involve skill, it is about the game mechanic itself.

Then why don't you stick to your own criteria:

I estimate about 50% of defended ladders still get boarded just because of hit reg issues.

Hit registration is not about the mechanic of boarding, so by your own accord is not part of the discussion. Hit registration is its own issue and affects more than just boarding, also a defending crew has multiple people on board meaning that they should have enough damage sources to avoid the hit registration issues. The 50% you are pulling out of a hat...

2nd - the reason it should be fixed this way is because it helps PvE and casuals WITHOUT damaging PvP and improves chasing and running stages and forces more dynamic and interesting naval engagements.

Actually PVE and casuals benefit from boarding as being chased allows you to attempt boards to anchor the chasers while those behind you have no manner in which they can board. Additionally being a PVE or PVP crew or a try-hard or a casual all has to do with the choices or skill level of a person and nothing to do with the game mechanic. Therefore by your own words do not have a place in the discussion you want to bring up.

The problem for PvE'ers or people transiting is it becomes very easy to get boarded and wrecked by PvP'ers who are good at this type of engagement.

If we are talking about how good someone is then we are talking about skill and by your own words should not have a point in this discussion. If it does my counter argument is that a skilled PVE player or any pirate for that matter should be able to defend their ladders as stated above; the mechanics to defend the ladder are also easy.

It's detrimental to a sailing game to let people just grab the ladder and end the fight without cannons, without chainshots, without anything else.

This however is impossible by means of boarding alone. Without a cannon, fire, sailing or anything else the ship will remain undamaged and will therefore never sink. Resulting in an endless pirate on pirate battle until one of the parties messes up or gives up. This is not a sailing game it is a pirate game and pirates boarded ships.

think making it harder to grab ladders at speed will make more dynamic encounters.

Where's your proof of this and how does this help the PVE and casuals that are running which tend to board at higher speeds, while PVP battles tend to happen at lower speeds. Therefore your suggestion benefits those that fight in a PVP battle while nerf the ability of those people you claimed had to be benefiting from this change.

If you want to have a different type of fight, the game provides all the tools for you and your crew to be able to accomplish this. Reducing the options on the seas doesn't add to a more dynamic environment, as options provide a more dynamic gameplay. The game already has increased the options for naval combat and enhanced that part of the combat system to provide additional tools and benefits to that style of fighting.

I can choose what type of battle I engage in be it that one of pure naval combat, the attempting of boarding and pirate battles or a mixture of the two using the tools the game provides. How would diminishing my options add to the dynamic of a fight?

PvP'ers arent complaining that PvP is too hard.

And having PvP'd most my game time I would say PvP is too easy.

The subjective view of difficulty is not a mechanic it is an opinion based on skill level and the skill level of your opponents. Therefore by your own words should not be included in this conversation as skill was not one of the criteria you wanted to talk about.

@idneon

The ladder is the sole reliable way to board a ship unless you maybe have a godly cannon aim.

The ladder has huge downsides to it as well: It is a set position, you make a sound when you go up and there only two on a ship. Which makes it easy to defend.

Ramming is a horrible manner to board and reliably it is a quick way to sink against any decent crew, unless you are able to maybe approach from the back with harpoons based on the ship you use it isn't even really viable; sloop versus galleon... good luck jumping on top of them while they tower over you?

Simply taking away the most used and reliable way to board a ship without offering any other alternative is just a bad move. In the end the situation is quite balanced, boarding is a key aspect of the pirate fantasy.

Introduce a grappling hook or boarding axe or something and the ladders could be looked at. Yet boarding shouldn't be a nearly impossible task to complete by design. The game offers easy ways to counter a boarder and it is on the player to use them.

Once again you start talking about something unrelated to the boarding mechanics, dummy sails. You claim you want to talk about the boarding mechanics solely, yet nearly each time you type you bring in other issues within the game that impact a battle and yet have nothing to do with the boarding mechanics themselves.

@idneon said in Why Boarding should be fixed.:

@cotu42 the only part you mentioned specifically to the mechanic needs to be clarified

This fix is only for when at speed.

Which only applies to chase and run.

So why is that your biggest concern?

If you're expecting to have to board to pvp that's YOUR problem.

It's a sailing game and some of us RIGHTLY want it to be a sailing game.

Boarding to win is literally the most boring thing about this game.

At speed... how by making it mechanically impossible? You claim to want to make it easier for PVE people, for casuals... the people that mostly board at speed. As they have no interest in a fight and are running away at full speed! You just want an easier time chasing people and forcing those that don't want to battle you into combat?

Boarding a ship that is at speed is already more difficult, by the simple fact that they are moving at a far greater speed than you can move. Therefore if they have any sense of naval positioning they can easily avoid you or see you coming a mile away; making it easy to counter you on all fronts.

I don't expect to need to board when I PvP, yet I want that option to remain a viable way to fight. Unlike you I can defend my ladders without issues and force a fight into a naval one at any point that I want. You know nothing about me, I play the game mainly solo and pick fights with larger crews. If a crew is anywhere near decent I have to battle purely with my ship and use my cannons, my ship position and never leave my vessel. I don't have a crew to patch up a single hole when I leave the ship, so please tell me exactly how I rely on boarding to fight? However I tend to have opponents that keep throwing bodies at my ladders and still manage to win fights, make it about the naval positioning, the cannon fire and the supplies we carry. Please, go out on the seas and go solo versus brigantines with three people and tell me how easy it is to go board and not sink. You want to make assumptions on my fighting style, my concerns and all that jazz...

Pff please, YOU rely on boarding, YOU rely on Kamikaze tactics... You don't want to learn to fight properly with your ship and need new rules to force everyone into it. Learn to use the tools to achieve your goals. You don't want to talk skill, then I am going to assume you and your crew are as good as I am and that isn't even the best out on the seas. Therefore if you want to have a Sailing and Gunning battle without boarders ruining the day you would easily be able to achieve it, by simply guarding your ladders properly. Yet here you are wanting to impose a rule to force it upon us.

@bugaboo-bill sagte in Why Boarding should be fixed.:

@Deckhands people call me a liar is ok?
I share my opinion.
Let them share theirs without to become personal, thanks.

Well if you say something wrong, that basically slanders a whole part of the community, then yes I will call you a liar. Enough people already told you the truth and you keep spreading this false information.

There's a difference between stating your own opinion, as in "In my experience..." or "So far, the only tdm'ers I ecnountered..." but you make it sound like it is a fact, like every tdm'er is that way, which is as wrong as it can be.

@idneon
Mate, your ego here is quite massive. Here is the thing, I don't blame you for that alone. Good crews rarely face each other, but you talk as if I am just sitting there twittling my thumbs and not reacting whatsoever. Good crews will not let you get away with what you are talking about. I too get an ego in this game as well, but in the 2-1/2 years of playing it my track record for not getting sunk speaks for itself. Too many crews are big fishes in small ponds in this game, my crew included. I welcome Rare to come up with a way to pin good crews against each other. Maybe some of these egos might get put in check.

You're probably a raging inferno for our entire approach at max range lol.

Fire is useless and can be ultimately ignored for other things that take priority. Its a nuisance more than it is a detriment. You are also assuming we aren't hitting you back. I too can hit long range shots, it isn't hard. Especially when you are on our ship with tons of supplies to waste. We never stop collecting and we end sessions with planks in 100-300s with cannonballs ever higher.

And you're getting rammed and boarded while on fire.

Again, fire isn't as useful as you think, amateur crews panic on fire, good crews ignore it and do stuff that takes priority. It takes like 10 minutes for fire to actually start damaging the ship, that is ages of time to deal with it over things that take priority. Those include ship boarders, holes, and ship 2.0 damage. Fire can be mitigated by carrying a full bucket of water on you at all times as well as packing a lunch with food items.

And probably from the back.

How are you ramming us from the rear while cannoning? I mean you can throw stuff certainly, but you have to be close as well. So in this imagined scenario you are nailing us with long range shots and simultaneously ramming our rear? Odd scenario in general.

And we'll be back in 5 min with a new boat.

Neat, I enjoy those types of people. I always welcome them, if we sank you once, it can be done again, especially if your strategy includes ramming.

Side note, if you want quote bits of text like I just did here, type the Greater than symbol “>” or shift period to create that symbol. It will create a dialogue box that can be separated through paragraph spacing.

@idneon sagte in Why Boarding should be fixed.:

If you're expecting to have to board to pvp that's YOUR problem.

With that logic in mind, isn't it "YOUR" problem, if you're expecting to not have to board to pvp?

It's a sailing game and some of us RIGHTLY want it to be a sailing game.

It is a pirate game, and boarding was a commonly used strategy by every pirate.

Boarding to win is literally the most boring thing about this game.

Well that's your opinion, did you ever consider that for others the boarding aspect might be more fun, than to just shoot cannons?

@idneon said in Why Boarding should be fixed.:

@insaiity frankly people who want to board can just play call of duty.

WE...most of the community. Want something more.

And fyi pirates had to actually sail and fire cannons to catch a ship.

Not fire themselves out of cannons and grab conveniently placed unremoveable ladders lol....so the idea the game should be based around boarding is just silly.

Especially when the boarding mechanic is fantastical and absurd to real life.

There's only one thing round here that is fantastical and absurd and it aint the boarding mechanic bless him!

@idneon sagte in Why Boarding should be fixed.:

@insaiity frankly people who want to board can just play call of duty.

WE...most of the community. Want something more.

Didn't know you spoke for the community, so far all I see is that YOU want this.

And fyi pirates had to actually sail and fire cannons to catch a ship.

Not fire themselves out of cannons and grab conveniently placed unremoveable ladders lol....so the idea the game should be based around boarding is just silly.

Thank you and for your information, pirates also couldn't patch a cannonhole with 1 plank and fit 100liters of water into one bucket. But because they can in this game, boarding becomes essential. Especially if you want to perserve resources and time.

Especially when the boarding mechanic is fantastical and absurd to real life.

Really? You come with that argument? In a game with megs, krakens, skellies, flamelords, ghosts, cursed cannonballs, and all that other fantastical and absurd stuff? Come one, you can do better.