Current State of PC Match-Making

@thornbush42

Pure PvP puts everyone on a level playing field, and people who enjoy fair PvP should strive for these such things to happen. If you're sat there reading this and disagreeing with that statement, I can only imagine you get your kicks from abusing such advantages, to which I feel disappointed that you're allowed to

You're assuming that people who steal loot and fight other ships do it because they can sink, cannon, and do ship vs ship combat. Most people are sinking ships and killing people in adventure because they want loot, if they wanted to sink ships and SvS then they would go to arena, as you can easily find people who also want to fight. If you're trying to get your point across and want people to be on your side, telling them that they are bad and that they should be disappointing at themselves for doing what they're doing is the wrong way to go about it.

I'm confused on what you're suggesting. You said that you don't want a PvE only server, but that we should split up the casual players from the PvPers. In doing so you would be splitting people up into separate servers, what are you suggesting? If you are asking that we just split up the playerbase into people who are ONLY casual players and people who are ONLY PvPers:

Developers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_yrN70591Q&feature=youtu.be&t=3578

@thornbush42

I always stated that PC and xbox users should have been treated equally and without seperation. The option of input was given to both platforms and always advocated that the controller only servers should have been just that, purely input based.

If Rare would have stayed true to their vision and design mantra we would have never been split and both platforms would have been included in the controller only option. The business end won and has determined to not upset the console xbox community and their exclusive club feeling.

That battle has been fought and lost with the introduction of the xbox only version. You are a bit late to the party, but good luck.

@thornbush42

You have my support, but I spent to much time on this specific topic of input. I don't think steam will change much to the equation at all. I am not going to be a big voice on this topic, I have no interest in having repeat conversations that I had in the mega thread regarding the xbox version. Go have a read in the archive if you're interested in the arguments made, be warned the hatred for PC is strong.

If you succeed please try and have them open those servers to the xbox community as well. They will still have their exclusive version and doubt it will ever be taken away, but the invitation should be given to them to join us once again.

The whole rivalry and exclusive of platforms is so artificial and fabricated. We are all gamers, the type of machine that runs the game shouldn't matter.

Edit: for your information load screens are based on the harddrive that one uses. Xbox users can also use a solid state drive, just an external one. Don't let people fool you to think it is a PC only perk and will be default on the new gen xbox with an internal SSD.

@thornbush42

I'm not assuming anything about what goes on about the seas at all, I'm only talking from personal experience, which isn't different from what you are saying at all, that PvP happens to gain rewards, since PvP without rewards isn't PvP it's griefing. Also I'm only saying I'm disappointed in those that abuse such systems, or lack their of, in order to gain an advantage. I'm talking minority, less than a few % probably, but they will exist wherever PvP comes. KB&M vs Controller is a huge debate, and it's not hard to see why, but it is easy to abuse such differences from a KB&M side since they could and would gain an easier experience against the opposition.

I think I'm having a hard time understanding you because you're speaking in a very broad context. When you said:

Pure PvP puts everyone on a level playing field, and people who enjoy fair PvP should strive for these such things to happen. If you're sat there reading this and disagreeing with that statement, I can only imagine you get your kicks from abusing such advantages, to which I feel disappointed that you're allowed to continue.

I assumed you meant people who PvP should always be looking for a fair playing field no matter what. That anything that gives anyone an advantage shouldn't be in the game, extra resources, cursed cannonballs, and better food should be something that we need to take out of the game as that counts as an advantage, and removes the level playing field. And I also didn't understand what you meant when you said, "Input-Based MM for PC players," That was my fault. I thought you were saying something like, "If you want to do voyages then you should get to choose a server where only people doing voyages can go, and if you want to PvP then you can go to these PvP servers. I understand now that your point was just to allow PC controller players to play with Xbox players.

As for allowing PC players with controller to go into the Xbox only servers, I'm not sure about the logistics behind it. I know most games don't do things like that as all you would have to do is plug in a controller, search for a game, then unplug the controller and go right back to using KB&M. I'm sure you could find a way to prevent that, I know some Xbox games don't allow Xbox players to plug in a KB&M to play the game, and you are only able to use controller, but I don't know of any PC games that do that kind of thing.

I'm sure that Rare could find a way to do it, but I'm not sure if they want to spend the time and resources to bring a feature like this into the game. Simply because most people on PC don't play on controller, and the few who do aren't in an outcry like the Xbox players were. I'm sure if there were enough people advocating for PC controller players to be in the Xbox lobbies then Rare would probably add it. Me personally, I don't mind the idea, sure you will get faster load times and higher FPS being in the Xbox lobbies, but the main complaints from Xbox players are the fact that they are hindered by the controller, and not the lack of FPS. So while FPS and load times would be a factor, I don't see a good enough reason to not add it as of right now.

But I'm not a PC controller player. I started playing this game with controller, got kill by someone with a KB&M, then I swapped off of controller as I didn't want to be at a disadvantage. To me it seems like the problem could just be fixed by people swapping over to a keyboard and mouse, rather than getting into a fight with the Xbox players about how your load times and FPS will give you an advantage, as well as Rare having to make it impossible to swap back to KB&M after you've searched. But if enough people wanted this to happen, and the Xbox players didn't have a lot of push back, then it probably could work.

@thornbush42

You didn't follow the thread closely enough I believe. There were people that made your case and those that fought hard against the exclusive nature of the feature.

The same people that state that they would fight you tooth and nail to ensure you are and remain excluded. You thank them, yet as long as you don't play on a branded machine they will never accept you and will work against your case of input based matchmaking.

I truly suggest you read the mega thread.

are people that use controllers on PC really a thing? i mean, surely you could count them all on one hand, yes?

@tehstepford
There's a big enough community to warrant a discussion, but not big enough to warrant implementation. Sea of Thieves is a very casual game, because it's not a full on FPS game where there are competitive ranks and SR in play, some people choose to not make the switch to KB&M as they don't see a reason to use it because this game isn't too competitive. I'd say that when I use the SOT discord 1/10 times someone will say that they use controller, and that's only the times that they admit to using it, that doesn't count all of the times that someone did use controller but never admitted it.

So yes, while there are probably tens of thousands of players who use controller on PC for Sea of Thieves, they're still in the minority and most people will use KB&M. But I can guarantee that most people who do use controller aren't taking the game seriously, and are just trying to have a casual experience without much fighting or PvP.

@bugaboo-bill

Btw controller has also benefits compared to Kb&M in several situations.

In what situations would it be better to have a controller instead of a KB&M?

@cotu42 said in Current State of PC Match-Making:

The whole rivalry and exclusive of platforms is so artificial and fabricated. We are all gamers, the type of machine that runs the game shouldn't matter.

Edit: for your information load screens are based on the harddrive that one uses. Xbox users can also use a solid state drive, just an external one. Don't let people fool you to think it is a PC only perk and will be default on the new gen xbox with an internal SSD.

No, it isn't. PCs are inherently superior to consoles in every way. Buying a console buys into a closed and artificially restrictive system. The up-front cost for a good PC is daunting but the number of advantages it provides significantly, and I mean significantly outweighs the drawback.

@blam320 @SkylaMark

So, your argument is that to be able to have a fair input based matchmaking one must downgrade their PC to an xbox and pay more money? Instead of the person with the lesser machine upgrade their machine to have a better experience?

The specs of the machine you have is based on the money you can spend. A PC can be way better than a xbox, it can also be less. The next generation xbox will be significantly better than the current generation and will fall under the xbox tag.

Spend more money and get a better machine. This including the purchase of an external SSD to decrease load times on a xbox one, so yes it is not a PC only perk. Welcome to the real world.

Xbox are closed systems, but can be upgraded and improved with new models, external extensions and new generations every couple of years. They are a decent price to quality experience.

I don't think demanding people to change their system and buy a different machine to enable a input based matchmaking system is a good practice and yet is exactly what they did.

If you want to read more please just read the mega thread on xbox only option. This is a crossplay title... the game should at least provide a crossplay option.

@cotu42 said in Current State of PC Match-Making:

@blam320

So, your argument is that to be able to have a fair input based matchmaking one must downgrade their PC to an xbox and pay more money? Instead of the person with the lesser machine upgrade their machine to have a better experience?

What part of "PCs are inherently superior" doesn't make sense?

The specs of the machine you have is based on the money you can spend. A PC can be way better than a xbox, it can also be less. The next generation xbox will be significantly better than the current generation and will fall under the xbox tag.

Spend more money and get a better maching. This including the purchase of an external SSD to decrease load times on a xbox one. Welcome to the real world.

Xbox are closed systems, but can be upgraded and improved with new models, external extensions and new generations every couple of years. They are a decent price to quality experience.

No they aren't. With the Xbox you're forced to pay an additional fee to access online play, and on top of that you don't get nearly as large of a games library, on top of zero utility such as web browsing, video and document editing, etc.

I don't think demanding people to change their system and buy a different machine to enable a input based matchmaking system is a good practice and yet is exactly what they did.

If you want to read more please just read the mega thread on xbox only option.

You're putting words into my mouth. I was replying to a specific part of your post, where you say the rivalry between Consoles and PCs is artificial. I'm pointing out that it's not an artificial rivalry, and you're trying to insinuate that I'm making a statement about input-based matchmaking. You can use Controllers on a PC, did you know that? You've always been able to use controllers on PC. For the longest time you couldn't use KBM on a Console.

@galactic-geek
How so? Can they turn faster? I've used controller way back so it's possible that they've changed it, but I didn't think that you can turn the wheel faster or turn the cannons faster.

@blam320

The rivalry between the players on PC and xbox is artificial. The gamers are gamers, they are people that play games... The difference between the two is the hardware that they bought and the brand it has attached to it. The specs of the system shouldn't be relevant, PCs have all different performances.

PC is not inherently superior, it is an open system that can be superior based on the price tag you pay. Go look up the spec requirements of the game. Go buy a budget laptop and tell me that is better than the next generation xbox or a xbox one with an external SSD. In the world you get what you pay for, the variety in the PC world is huge... also the additional benefits of a PC over a dedicated gaming machine a console is irrelevant to playing the game.

The topic is about the lack of input based matchmaking based on the system brand you have. Stick to the topic.

@cotu42 said in Current State of PC Match-Making:

@blam320

The rivalry between the players on PC and xbox is artificial. The gamers are gamers, they are people that play games... The difference between the two is the hardware that they bought and the brand it has attached to it. The specs of the system shouldn't be relevant, PCs have all different performances.

PC is not inherently superior, it is an open system that can be superior based on the price tag you pay. Go look up the spec requirements of the game. Go buy a budget laptop and tell me that is better than the next generation xbox or a xbox one with an external SSD. In the world you get what you pay for, the variety in the PC world is huge... also the additional benefits of a PC over a dedicated gaming machine a console is irrelevant to playing the game.

The topic is about the lack of input based matchmaking based on the system brand you have. Stick to the topic.

Like I said before, hardware isn't the only reason why PCs are superior. We can choose our input device at our discretion, online play isn't locked behind a second paygate, we have thousands upon thousands more games to choose from, and we have many extra utilities that Consoles don't have. Your "argument" that the only difference is hardware and branding is utter nonsense. It's like comparing a bicycle to a Boeing 747. Both get you from point A to point B, but one of them has a ton of extra utilities.

Going back to input-based matchmaking, it's impossible. As I said, PC players can choose input devices at their discretion. Console players will still complain about PC players having hardware advantages, regardless of the input device used. Hence why the PC versus Console "debate" is relevant.

@blam320

Because someone buys a Tesla or a Ford do we have different rules on the road? My desktop PC is a beast, yet the laptop my nephew plays on is nothing in comparison. You act like any PC is a high end device while that just isn't realistic.

Your comparison is wrong, the machine might be superior, but the people playing it are not. The choice to buy a machine, the specs, the perks and restrictions is on the person. The fact that PC players can use word, browse the internet or have more games at their disposal have nothing to do with the game we all play.

Xbox players can use a mouse and keyboard or a controller at their own discression, both inputs are supported. Yet the lesser machine by your own accord is given privileges that is denied to the better one? You think that makes sense, why shouldn't they both be given the same options?

There is no true rivalry between the platforms, because they are just branded machines; they run on the same core Windows 10 framework that the Xbox OS is built on, they still just have a hard drive, graphics unit, RAM and CPU. The elitist mentality is not justified, just because you buy a better machine or a branded machine does not make you a better human, gamer or anything. You just choose to buy something else... you act like owning a Xbox or PC is not something you choose. Are you going to come out now and demand that people on laptops get different options in the game, because it isn't a desktop? A computer is a computer, the fact that it is pre-built and runs a different operating system is quite irrelevant. Most people buy pre-built machines and never tinker with it in their life-time. The specs they buy are the specs they get.

Just because people whine doesn't mean that they are justified to be treated differently and be given more rights. Xbox users have differences between them, external extensions, newer models and will be expanded in the future next winter with a machine that is a multitude better than any of the three current ones. People like you act like xbox players are all equals on a hardware level, but they are not. People act like all PC players are on a high end device while they are not. The truth is simple, spend more money on your hardware and you will have a better machine. That is just how the world works.

If someone on a PC uses a controller or a person on a Xbox uses a Mouse and Keyboard, why are they forced into the shared world? If your argument is: Xbox should be separated from PC based on hardware restrictions, why are those players on a Xbox with a mouse and keyboard not included? The Hypocrisy of the whole Xbox tag on the opt-out option is so blatant it is sad that we have people defend it. What makes a controller user on a Xbox so much more special than a mouse and keyboard user on a Xbox? Don't they both have the same hardware... What is the more important difference; that of the hardware or that of the input model?

@Thornbush42 and this is exactly what I meant...

@kaijoi

The unplugging of a controller could be detected, the disabling of input controls of a keyboard can be done, the technology is there and Rare can implement it. It might take a little while, but it isn't all that much different than what they do on a Xbox.

It is also no new concept or that it has never been done before, Call of Duty is one of the games where they actually have controller only support for PC. Funnily enough a shooter is doing what Rare stated their design mantra was... while Rare threw the towel in the ring.

@Blam320 @Thornbush42
To remind people of the principle that Rare had which they abandoned with the Xbox exclusive feature; input based matchmaking:
No Compromise Cross Play - No * Cross-play turned into: "*Xbox only"

@cotu42 said in Current State of PC Match-Making:

@blam320

Because someone buys a Tesla or a Ford do we have different rules on the road? My desktop PC is a beast, yet the laptop my nephew plays on is nothing in comparison. You act like any PC is a high end device while that just isn't realistic.

Your comparison is wrong, the machine might be superior, but the people playing it are not. The choice to buy a machine, the specs, the perks and restrictions is on the person. The fact that PC players can use word, browse the internet or have more games at their disposal have nothing to do with the game we all play.

Xbox players can use a mouse and keyboard or a controller at their own discression, both inputs are supported. Yet the lesser machine by your own accord is given privileges that is denied to the better one? You think that makes sense, why shouldn't they both be given the same options?

There is no true rivalry between the platforms, because they are just branded machines; they run on the same core Windows 10 framework that the Xbox OS is built on, they still just have a hard drive, graphics unit, RAM and CPU. The elitist mentality is not justified, just because you buy a better machine or a branded machine does not make you a better human, gamer or anything. You just choose to buy something else... you act like owning a Xbox or PC is not something you choose. Are you going to come out now and demand that people on laptops get different options in the game, because it isn't a desktop? A computer is a computer, the fact that it is pre-built and runs a different operating system is quite irrelevant. Most people buy pre-built machines and never tinker with it in their life-time. The specs they buy are the specs they get.

Just because people whine doesn't mean that they are justified to be treated differently and be given more rights. Xbox users have differences between them, external extensions, newer models and will be expanded in the future next winter with a machine that is a multitude better than any of the three current ones. People like you act like xbox players are all equals on a hardware level, but they are not. People act like all PC players are on a high end device while they are not. The truth is simple, spend more money on your hardware and you will have a better machine. That is just how the world works.

If someone on a PC uses a controller or a person on a Xbox uses a Mouse and Keyboard, why are they forced into the shared world? If your argument is: Xbox should be separated from PC based on hardware restrictions, why are those players on a Xbox with a mouse and keyboard not included? The Hypocrisy of the whole Xbox tag on the opt-out option is so blatant it is sad that we have people defend it. What makes a controller user on a Xbox so much more special than a mouse and keyboard user on a Xbox? Don't they both have the same hardware... What is the more important difference; that of the hardware or that of the input model?

@Thornbush42 and this is exactly what I meant...

You keep putting words into my mouth and I don't appreciate it. Either we're going to have a debate or we're not.

@thornbush42 They should instead implement input based matchmaking whilst maintaining crossplay.

Jason Ronald even said SOT was getting FPS enhancements for series x.

The opt out usage percentage is around 7.5% of the player base.

In all honesty though I've played on those xbox servers, and its shocking how easy it is when it comes to the PvP aspect.

Although if you really want to, you can still use a K+M in these servers if you know how.

@blam320 are you referring to the topic of the thread or are you trying to derail the conversation? Are you interested in a discussion or just want to disrupt the conversation.

The topic is how input matchmaking is limited to those on a xbox console owners and should be offered to those on PC.

You are the one arguing that it is justified because PCs can be significantly better if people are willing to pay the price. While ignoring that xbox owners can improve their system with external hard drives, newer models and soon a new generation xbox which will have many of the perks that PC players already have or that PC owners can have lesser machines based on their specs that they bought. The price you pay makes the hardware you use better, this is not exclusive to PC, while PC has a bigger range, it also applies to xbox users.

You want to make a conversation about input based matchmaking to a PC vs Xbox conversation, while the specs of the system one buys is irrelevant to the input based discrepancies. Both options of input is offered to each platform, so why is a input matchmaking system limited to one?

The whole idea that the hardware used to play the game on should provide benefits to those that buy the right brand is correct and is a practice we should support? You believe that is justified?

Why is the line of hardware variety and differences drawn with a brand? A xbox with an external SSD drive has significant advantages in terms of load times, just as PCs with a SSD have those advantages. This is not an opinion but a fact.

The variety of how we access the internet is irrelevant to the topic, the variety of games we can play is irrelevant to the topic and the variety of activities one can perform on the platform is irrelevant to the topic. If you truly want to have a discussion about the topic, feel free to respond. If your goal is to derail the topic, stop.