Alliance Servers and the Problem They Pose

  • CasualSky
    Seafarer
    Insider

    As a player who enjoys most of the core concepts in SoT, I feel like I can target the subject of Alliance Servers without seeming too biased. I understand wanting to avoid PvP, and I understand loving the elements of PvE, but alliance servers go against the core concepts of the game. Even if some players enjoy them, it takes away the value of the main objective in SoT, the progression system.

    I played when the game first came out and hit PL a little over a month into launch. I've watched this game grow and have a deep appreciation for the development team, as well as being a Rare fan in general. So I'm a little confused why Alliance Servers are still running rampant. They bypass the grind, making actual grinding players' achievements lose their value entirely. Why should I be proud of Pirate Legend if someone can join an Alliance server and hit it in two days after starting? Gold, reputation, and even the name of the game lose their value as soon as Alliance servers enter the picture. It's not exactly Sea Of Thieves if you're not at risk to steal/be stolen from.

    So here are my solutions, because with the addition of Emissaries and Leader boards, spot number 1 should not go to who spent the most time on their alliance server. There should be an accurate depiction of who has grinded the most, and legitimately.

    You could make the amount of ships in the alliance server decrease the gold/rep gain as the number of player ships goes up. A full 6-ship alliance server could give 5%-10% of gold/rep gain between ships instead of 50% gain from five other sources. The more easy solution is to stop Alliance Servers from even being formed, and lower the alliance ship cap to 2 or 3 ships per alliance. Or make alliances purely a social/combative mechanic, having them share gold/rep doesn't make much sense to begin with anyways as it immediately imbalances the game and those players' grinding experience. It's much too easy to exploit.

    Either way the base % of a two ship alliance would have to be patched or fixed somehow. Gaining an extra 50% of gold/rep from another crew still isn't a solid mechanic. Those crews will each be gaining 150% of their actual effort/value compared to the non-alliance player. So why 6 ship alliances are even allowed doesn't have any solid ground to stand on. 6 Ship alliances are gaining 350% of their value, cutting out more than 1/3 of the grind for those players.

    If Rare really wants to keep alliances around to appease dedicated PvE players, they need to find a different way, as alliances are exploiting the game and ruin the point of grinding for non-alliance players.

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  • Captain Coel
    Commander
    Insider

    @casualsky you know that only loot your boat hands in counts toward your ledger value right?

  • CasualSky
    Seafarer
    Insider

    @captain-coel Good to know! My main point still stands, however.

  • Omnipotence13
    Captain
    Insider

    I have to agree with this. I was on a ship the other day with a guy bragging about his 20+ million gold. He mocked my 6 million, so I checked his stats. He had about 15% of my millage, chests cashed in etc. The guy sits at the fort of the damned all day, playing on glindfest servers and has next to no skill of PvP experience. He even complained that on the previous day they had seven fort of the damned loot stacked on their galleon when they got Krackened and lost it all.

    For me, I have played a lot. I have earned every coin and own almost every item in the game, but after leaving that game, I realized that all of those gold hoarding hours were a complete waste. There are players with a ridiculous hoard of gold who simply spin for hours on end. It's made the grind a bit meaningless.

    It's sad that Rare allows this abuse of servers. They are completely aware they exist, but have done nothing to solve the issues. The answer is as simple as limiting the ship count in an alliance to two or three, or as you said, creating a diminishing return. But they sit back and ignore it instead.

    In sea of thieves you pick how you wish to play. Sadly we live in an age of instant gratification, and many players would rather exploit the system in order to boost there feeling of accomplishment rather then embracing the grind. This is why PL is a joke and most Legendary ships sink so easily.

  • BurnBacon
    Vanguard
    Insider

    Are they restricting you from playing? You as a player. Are these server alliances breaking your game from being played how you want too? No?

    Then why care.

  • Kakashi Lord
    Commander
    Insider
    Founder

    @omnipotence13 I know what you’re saying but I don’t the game to become one of those that the devs sit back and nerf and limit aspects across the board.

    I think a proper solution is draw more focuses and achievements that aren’t necessarily tied to accrued total of gold, and so on.

    Like you said with your comparison the player had very little to show in regards to effort towards their achievements and only had gold and level progress to represent it.

    Their needs to be incentives that go against alliances, deflating alliances most likely won’t have a positive result. I’ve been in full server alliances and it’s refreshing on those rare occasions that I’m on them. Either way there will always be people who cheat the system. The first pirate legend literally server hopped and got followers to do their work for them.

    Not sure what the best solution would be but we know alliances don’t impact ledgers directly, and they don’t impact commendations directly. Perhaps they should add on a statistics standpoint on how long they have spent in certain number of ship alliances. Sort of like an anti achievement. Gives them the way they enjoy to play with the add annoyance of knowing that their heavy reliance would be advertised.

    Like I said I don’t have the solutions. I’m just weary of starting to nerf things that may ruin their purpose in the first place. If people aren’t wanting to alliance as much it also makes it hard for those wanting to infiltrate them.

  • CaptBeefhart936
    Marauder
    Insider

    The only way to stop alliance servers is to literally not allow any user to send a game invite mid session.

    Somehow i dont see that ever happening.

  • Omnipotence13
    Captain
    Insider

    @troubled-cells said in Alliance Servers and the Problem They Pose:

    The only way to stop alliance servers is to literally not allow any user to send a game invite mid session.

    Somehow i dont see that ever happening.

    True, but all rewards of them could be removed. Alliances were created to allow teams to team up towards a common goal. They were not designed to meet up, sail in different directions and receive 50% of something you contributed nothing for.

  • Lem0n Curry
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @casualsky
    I agree with the sentiment of your post - allianced servers doesn't seem to be the intended gameplay.

    I have no problem with a server where by chance every crew is friendly towards each other and get more gold and rep; because even though nobody might attack another crew there is still the tension of a possible betrayal.

    A server set up as a friendly server (with or without every ship in an alliance) by exploiting or by perseverance of a couple of players to end up on the same server to "grind 24/7", without a sense of danger should be shut down because they are basically a PvE server and take away a significant part of the intended workings of the game and are basically unfair.

    If people want to show off, for example, their "legendary thief" title when they only have delivered 5 given Athena chests, that's laughable and to be honest I pity them. But when crews because they have an easy and cheesy way of getting in Tier 1 take away the chance (or make people work harder) to get the sails of Tier 1 it's a different story.

  • RiShanji
    Seafarer

    @casualsky

    You could make the amount of ships in the alliance server decrease the gold/rep gain as the number of player ships goes up. A full 6-ship alliance server could give 5%-10% of gold/rep gain between ships instead of 50% gain from five other sources. The more easy solution is to stop Alliance Servers from even being formed, and lower the alliance ship cap to 2 or 3 ships per alliance. Or make alliances purely a social/combative mechanic, having them share gold/rep doesn't make much sense to begin with anyways as it immediately imbalances the game and those players' grinding experience. It's much too easy to exploit.

    Either way the base % of a two ship alliance would have to be patched or fixed somehow. Gaining an extra 50% of gold/rep from another crew still isn't a solid mechanic. Those crews will each be gaining 150% of their actual effort/value compared to the non-alliance player. So why 6 ship alliances are even allowed doesn't have any solid ground to stand on. 6 Ship alliances are gaining 350% of their value, cutting out more than 1/3 of the grind for those players.

    This is the only thing I disagree with. Killing any incentive to form an alliance without adding a reason to make one is, Imho, really dumb. Yes, gaming the system is bad. However, we should not prevent any non-premade alliances from forming.

  • mferr11
    Vanguard
    Insider

    I used to have a strong opinion on this subject, but as time's gone on I've just stopped caring. I don't care that someone hit Athena 20 on day one of the update. I don't care if someone has maxed out all the companies in 2 days. If they get enjoyment from that, go for it. If they then complain that they have nothing to work for, that's on them. I don't care if someone has 20 million gold and all of it was earned from an Alliance Server. Are there changes I'd make to the Alliance mechanics? Absolutely, but I'm not personally bothered if someone accomplishes something quicker than me because they played on one of those servers.

    Rare commented saying that the percentage of players using Alliance Servers is soo small it has hardly any impact on the ledgers. I've managed to get in the top tier of GH without being on an Alliance server, so it really isn't that much of an issue.

  • CaptBeefhart936
    Marauder
    Insider

    @omnipotence13 then you get the issue of rare having to implement a solution to differentiate a small group of ships receiving alliance rewards against a entire alliance servers worth of ships.

    Again...

    I cant see it happening.

    You cant take away alliance servers without damaging something else that's legit.

  • Stundorn
    Castaway
    Insider
    Founder

    @casualsky sagte in Alliance Servers and the Problem They Pose:

    As a player who enjoys most of the core concepts in SoT, I feel like I can target the subject of Alliance Servers without seeming too biased. I understand wanting to avoid PvP, and I understand loving the elements of PvE, but alliance servers go against the core concepts of the game. Even if some players enjoy them, it takes away the value of the main objective in SoT, the progression system.

    the progression system is allways seconded by me, its completely optional and nothing i concentrate on.
    The main objective is to have an adventure with your, rival and/or allied crews!

    I played when the game first came out and hit PL a little over a month into launch.

    You hit PL a month after release. How did you cheese it?
    Or did you play 24/7?

    I've watched this game grow and have a deep appreciation for the development team, as well as being a Rare fan in general. So I'm a little confused why Alliance Servers are still running rampant. They bypass the grind, making actual grinding players' achievements lose their value entirely.

    The value of your grind is your value, nobodys else.
    Your grind affects me in no way and i dont compare myself to others. for sure not in a video game about pixels.

    Why should I be proud of Pirate Legend if someone can join an Alliance server and hit it in two days after starting?

    why should you be "proud" anyway to play a video game daily for how many hours? 10 or more - just assumption, because you said you hit PL a month after release.

    Gold, reputation, and even the name of the game lose their value as soon as Alliance servers enter the picture. It's not exactly Sea Of Thieves if you're not at risk to steal/be stolen from.

    I dont play on alliance serves, but arent they the smartest pirates ever? they do what pirates do, thats all.

    So here are my solutions, because with the addition of Emissaries and Leader boards, spot number 1 should not go to who spent the most time on their alliance server. There should be an accurate depiction of who has grinded the most, and legitimately.

    leaderboards are not affectedd by alliances, because only loot handed in by your crew counts for the ledger.
    If you are nitpicking about this, what about 4 players get all 1000 Gold and Rep from a Captains chest, while one solo Slooper gets only 1000 gold and rep once.
    Shouldn't crews then have the gold and rep of a chest split and not doubled, trippled or quadrupled?

    You could make the amount of ships in the alliance server decrease the gold/rep gain as the number of player ships goes up. A full 6-ship alliance server could give 5%-10% of gold/rep gain between ships instead of 50% gain from five other sources.

    And then make loot divided by the amount of pirates of a crew right? so as i said above a captains chest that sells for 1000 would only give 250 for each pirate in a galleone crew, ok?

    The more easy solution is to stop Alliance Servers from even being formed, and lower the alliance ship cap to 2 or 3 ships per alliance.

    Its tools not rules! There are also 6 Ship alliances that got formed ingame. I remind some events where we had all 6 ships allied ingame on a regular way. Why have a rule to stop this?
    Because you are nitpicking about pixels you grinded for?

    If Rare really wants to keep alliances around to appease dedicated PvE players, they need to find a different way, as alliances are exploiting the game and ruin the point of grinding for non-alliance players.

    tbh to ruin the point of grinding is a great move by Rare!!!
    Stop grinding, start playing!

  • FlintSilver1397
    Master
    Insider

    @omnipotence13 said in Alliance Servers and the Problem They Pose:

    I have to agree with this. I was on a ship the other day with a guy bragging about his 20+ million gold. He mocked my 6 million, so I checked his stats. He had about 15% of my millage, chests cashed in etc. The guy sits at the fort of the damned all day, playing on glindfest servers and has next to no skill of PvP experience. He even complained that on the previous day they had seven fort of the damned loot stacked on their galleon when they got Krackened and lost it all.

    For me, I have played a lot. I have earned every coin and own almost every item in the game, but after leaving that game, I realized that all of those gold hoarding hours were a complete waste. There are players with a ridiculous hoard of gold who simply spin for hours on end. It's made the grind a bit meaningless.

    It's sad that Rare allows this abuse of servers. They are completely aware they exist, but have done nothing to solve the issues. The answer is as simple as limiting the ship count in an alliance to two or three, or as you said, creating a diminishing return. But they sit back and ignore it instead.

    In sea of thieves you pick how you wish to play. Sadly we live in an age of instant gratification, and many players would rather exploit the system in order to boost there feeling of accomplishment rather then embracing the grind. This is why PL is a joke and most Legendary ships sink so easily.

    I used to legitimately fear seeing pirate legend sails and Athena sails incoming...now, we are pretty certain it's going to be an easy fight. It's almost become unfashionable to wear PL and Athena stuff because it usually reflects a crew that have just achieved it and for us, that means easy pickings. Beginner wear is far more deceptive now. White sails can present a greater challenge than the aforementioned.

    I was day 1. Beta player. I've played this game almost every week since it was launched and that was when legends was a far more elusive, exclusive and difficult grind. Now, with the alliance system, thieves haven runs and sea of friends becoming more dominant, legends screams "I'm a PVE player possibly carrying lots of valuable loot."

    I never thought I would be so into the reapers bones. I always fancied myself as a hero not a villain but...It's pretty much all I play as now.

    🔥 ❤

  • LordClopax
    Ship Mate

    So you don't like how people want to play because it's not the way you play... Then you complain about something that has litteraly NO impact on the way you play, nor your own progression in the game and ask for some ways to play to be banned just because your idea of a SANDBOX game is not the same as others...
    Really, leave server alliances alone... I've had the luck to meet some and they are delightful players, not obsessed by harassing other player and don't want nor can put as much time as PVP grinders on the game...
    Don't go on alliances servers ! You've never been forced to join them, so leave them be...
    "oh but they got in 2 days the title I got in one month" so what ? You got the PL title in one month, I got it after two months and a half, did I cry on the forums that "gnugnuh I hate grinders because they make me look terrible with the same title as me with less difficulty to obtain"... You sound like a spoiled baby, the same on that complained about time-limited cosmetics being available after some challenges...
    It's time to mind your own business and care about your butt, my friend... Stop trying to control others butts and you'll play freely without any troubles...
    Peace out man !

  • LordClopax
    Ship Mate

    @mferr11 I completely agree with you ^^ I've been on an alliance server this week, to investigate and understand the subject before openin' up me jolly ol' mouth and I shall say I had a wonderful time (not as good as with my friends on a regular game session because it wasn't as w.t.f'ey without my trusted crew of tender idiots) but I enjoyed meeting new people, practice my english and just relax while sailing... It was nice just for once after getting back from work to be able to let go of hate, stress and worries and just play... I'd go again some days but not at full time, it's not the way I'd like to always play ^^'

  • Stundorn
    Castaway
    Insider
    Founder

    @lordclopax sagte in Alliance Servers and the Problem They Pose:

    @mferr11 I completely agree with you ^^ I've been on an alliance server this week, to investigate and understand the subject before openin' up me jolly ol' mouth and I shall say I had a wonderful time (not as good as with my friends on a regular game session because it wasn't as w.t.f'ey without my trusted crew of tender idiots) but I enjoyed meeting new people, practice my english and just relax while sailing... It was nice just for once after getting back from work to be able to let go of hate, stress and worries and just play... I'd go again some days but not at full time, it's not the way I'd like to always play ^^'

    How dare you? XD jk ;-)

    I played 2 or 3 times on an alliance server in 2018, it was like you described, but i also like it to have some threat around and the grindy way they played was not for me as I dont want work off stuff that much.
    But i cannot say i never grinded if i wanted to unlock something.
    The original Bonecrusher Set for example. But i did that all "regularly".
    But normally and actually i like to have no goals, but roam around and take what thw Sea has to offer or what others are willing to do.

  • BarBar0ssa6836
    Sailor
    Insider

    I really don't understand who dose it impact the non aliance players with the grind its not like you are grinding on an aliance server and you are getting cut out of your share of gold , and lets be honest there are players who enjoy pve more the pvp that is their choice and the fact that they join an aliance server shouldn't impact your game experience you are just trying to satisfy your ego nothing less nothing more i have friends who have been playing the game since launch and sit on 150+M gold you having only 6M just goes to show that you don't grind as much or play as much as you think i make 3M gold each day on non aliance server by server hopping and hunting down flamehearth/skelly fleet

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