Emissaries and Combat Logging

  • So most are already aware of the things of which I am bringing up here. However, lets get the easy one out of the way. I am hoping that when people quit the game it still drops an Emissary flag. Otherwise this just feels like a tool to combat log a reward they would have otherwise have given.

    The second thing I am bringing up pertains to what I see as much more of combat logging. What I mean is when people are being chased and will slam on the anchor and rush to remove their flag just to avoid sinking the ship 30 seconds behind them. Now many would argue that this isn't much different than a ship rushing to cash out that Athena chest, I would argue that his is different. That chests value lies in a physical chest. Once its cashed it disappears. The Emissaries value lies in a physical ship floating on the water. While a cashed in chest is wisked away the Emissary ship still floats there. It remains the only item that one physically doesn't have to carry in order to cash it out. This leads to people fleeing only to drop flag out of spite for not losing it to another crew.

    Just the other day we were pursuing a ship only for them to drop the flag regardless of them not actually turning in their loot. We were able to sink them to steal the rest, but it just seems silly they can just combat log part of their value with little to no effort. So with all that being said, I have a few propositions to suggest that might alleviate this combat logging.

    First, a crew cannot drop emissary immediately. Dropping their Emissary status requires an amount of time to pass depending on their grade. Maximum time for grade 5 would be around 2 minutes. I don't wish to make it an absurd amount of time so that it still allows players who have made a clean escape from pursuit the option to cash out. I don't want to remove fleeing as a tactic, but I think someone needs a larger gap than what it takes to rush to a voting station.

    Second, rather than have a delay, make the Emissary value tied to an item that can be collected and turned in by its own crew. I am aware that sinking a ship leaves a flag, but what I am asking for is that if they vote to close Emissary, an item appears on their ship to physically turn in. This would make it near identical to any other chest in the game by making it a physical item to turn in. It meets a middle ground of mine by still causing players to take more time to turn in that value.

    Third option, is more of a throwaway idea. Just make it a permanent pick-able item that can be stolen. Its would be just a physical flag that can be removed. Its like option two where it requires to be turned in, but it makes it so players aren't required to physically sink the ship in order to take it. This option has problems, because it would be easy for your own crew to mess with it by removing it prematurely.

    In conclusion, I don't want to remove running as an option, but for it to so easily remove seems to create issues of people removing it out of plain spite. I'm not intending to sound bitter here, but I hope something can be done about this. Yes I am aware that pirates aren't known for ethics, but in the context of a video game we can still strive for sportsmanlike behavior. Just because someone can do something doesn't mean they should. Reaper's bones already has issues of leveling by relying on the presence of other Emissaries, by removing this type of combat logging we help alleviate that. When people sign up for Emissaries, they accept the risks of being targeted. To remove that risk with a simple quick vote seems way too easy.

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  • I’d vote for having a small timer of 15 seconds per level for the flag to drop. If you sail away from the outpost it stops the timer and you keep the flag up. As the timer ticks down the flags could slowly lower down the pole to give indication on the timer to other crews.

    This would make it a battle at an outpost. With no choice but to stand your ground and battle.

  • I could see maybe making it to where you can't lower the flag while in combat but 2 minutes is a bit much. Even if I'm not being chased and want to just log off it would be really annoying to have to sit there for 2 minutes waiting on a flag timer. I know 2 minutes isn't much in reality but anyone who has waited on a timer like that knows that it can feel like an eternity.

    Personally I'm fine with people being able to lower it, If a reaper can steal it and turn it in without a timer then why shouldn't they be able to turn it in. But again if I saw some sort of combat freeze on turn in's I wouldn't be completely against it.

  • @nabberwar said in Emissaries and Combat Logging:

    So most are already aware of the things of which I am bringing up here. However, lets get the easy one out of the way. I am hoping that when people quit the game it still drops an Emissary flag. Otherwise this just feels like a tool to combat log a reward they would have otherwise have given.

    The second thing I am bringing up pertains to what I see as much more of combat logging. What I mean is when people are being chased and will slam on the anchor and rush to remove their flag just to avoid sinking the ship 30 seconds behind them. Now many would argue that this isn't much different than a ship rushing to cash out that Athena chest, I would argue that his is different. That chests value lies in a physical chest. Once its cashed it disappears. The Emissaries value lies in a physical ship floating on the water. While a cashed in chest is wisked away the Emissary ship still floats there. It remains the only item that one physically doesn't have to carry in order to cash it out. This leads to people fleeing only to drop flag out of spite for not losing it to another crew.

    Just the other day we were pursuing a ship only for them to drop the flag regardless of them not actually turning in their loot. We were able to sink them to steal the rest, but it just seems silly they can just combat log part of their value with little to no effort. So with all that being said, I have a few propositions to suggest that might alleviate this combat logging.

    First, a crew cannot drop emissary immediately. Dropping their Emissary status requires an amount of time to pass depending on their grade. Maximum time for grade 5 would be around 2 minutes. I don't wish to make it an absurd amount of time so that it still allows players who have made a clean escape from pursuit the option to cash out. I don't want to remove fleeing as a tactic, but I think someone needs a larger gap than what it takes to rush to a voting station.

    Second, rather than have a delay, make the Emissary value tied to an item that can be collected and turned in by its own crew. I am aware that sinking a ship leaves a flag, but what I am asking for is that if they vote to close Emissary, an item appears on their ship to physically turn in. This would make it near identical to any other chest in the game by making it a physical item to turn in. It meets a middle ground of mine by still causing players to take more time to turn in that value.

    Third option, is more of a throwaway idea. Just make it a permanent pick-able item that can be stolen. Its would be just a physical flag that can be removed. Its like option two where it requires to be turned in, but it makes it so players aren't required to physically sink the ship in order to take it. This option has problems, because it would be easy for your own crew to mess with it by removing it prematurely.

    In conclusion, I don't want to remove running as an option, but for it to so easily remove seems to create issues of people removing it out of plain spite. I'm not intending to sound bitter here, but I hope something can be done about this. Yes I am aware that pirates aren't known for ethics, but in the context of a video game we can still strive for sportsmanlike behavior. Just because someone can do something doesn't mean they should. Reaper's bones already has issues of leveling by relying on the presence of other Emissaries, by removing this type of combat logging we help alleviate that. When people sign up for Emissaries, they accept the risks of being targeted. To remove that risk with a simple quick vote seems way too easy.

  • I really dont see a difference between rushing to sell your flag so a pursuer cant get it and rushing to sell an Athena so a pursuer cant get it. Can you expand on this more because it really just comes across as you couldn't get a ship in time and they rush sold what you were after. Seems like totally fair play on their part.

  • @sk-xenoglossy

    I really dont see a difference between rushing to sell your flag so a pursuer cant get it and rushing to sell an Athena so a pursuer cant get it. Can you expand on this more because it really just comes across as you couldn't get a ship in time and they rush sold what you were after. Seems like totally fair play on their part.

    Certainly, the way I see it and how I deem them different is the following. First the time and effort it takes to cash out. This is completely different to a physical chest to be turned in. Its intangible to be cashed out, so you can't just steal it or fight over it. Its physically tied to the ship yet can be removed with ease regardless if the ship is being physically attacked. Yet, once people sink the ship, it suddenly follows the same rules as every other item in this game. It now becomes a physical item that can be stolen and takes time to transport. I'd argue its inconsistent with precedent that has been established. This remains the only cash and reputation valued item that can be turned in without being a physical item. Its the safest thing to cash out in this game because it physically can't be touched.

    Ultimately, I just want consistency. Every item in this game takes effort to remove and sell, why should this be any different?

  • @nabberwar Perhaps, then, it should become a physical item. Voting to drop it only drops the flag and it appears, then, on the ship’s voting table. Then you have to grab it and turn it in for the reward.

  • @entspeak

    @nabberwar Perhaps, then, it should become a physical item. Voting to drop it only drops the flag and it appears, then, on the ship’s voting table. Then you have to grab it and turn it in for the reward.

    I'm fine with that, as long as its consistent. Right now its just too easy to cash out even with players around. This would be otherwise so much harder had it been a physical item to carry. Side note, it should then be displayed on the map for Reaper's Bones grade 5 if that is the case.

  • @nabberwar I dont mean to be argumentative here but you can certainly fight over it, how would you stop an Athena rush sell? Rushing the bar and killing the guy to take the chest while the rest of the your crew sinks the ship. This situation is slightly different depending on crew size but strategy remains the same. Rush emissary to lock down while remaining crew sinks the ship. Whether or not a ship is under attack doesnt matter because it doesnt matter for any other item in the game. They can all be taken and rush sold. If you want it to follow the same rules as every item in the game then it should be a flag in the crows and should be able to be removed at anytime by one crew member and rush sold as an item. All your other suggestions made it special in some way and gave chasers an advantage. It physically can be touched by locking down the emissary table then moving to the boat and locking it down while remaining crew sinks the ship.

    If you want consistency I think you'll find the crows nest idea much more in line with every item in the game rather than all the special chaser advantage ideas you were throwing out earlier but I honestly dont see a need for change as it's perfectly combatable with current strategy for any other rush sells.

  • @nabberwar said in Emissaries and Combat Logging:

    Certainly, the way I see it and how I deem them different is the following. First the time and effort it takes to cash out. This is completely different to a physical chest to be turned in. Its intangible to be cashed out, so you can't just steal it or fight over it.

    In all fairness, it takes more effort to bring the flag down versus rush selling an item depending on crew size. Larger crews need to send more people off ship to get the enough votes to bring it down and the ship has to be within a certain distance of the voting table. Rush selling an item only requires 1 person and can be done as a drive by.

    Both the voting and the rush selling are going to be restricted to a specific part of the outpost (voting table or faction person), so it's equally possible to beat them there and kill them first. It also takes longer to vote (hold mechanic) vs. selling an item (instant button press) but not by much.

    I wouldn't be against preventing flag selling if your ship was in combat recently, but I don't think it's 100% true to say that selling a flag is easier or quicker than selling a chest. If you want to turn the flag into an item, the vote down should be moved to the ship maybe? Vote down the flag, then you have to carry it off the ship to the company representative to cash in.

  • @d3adst1ck

    In all fairness, it takes more effort to bring the flag down versus rush selling an item depending on crew size. Larger crews need to send more people off ship to get the enough votes to bring it down and the ship has to be within a certain distance of the voting table. Rush selling an item only requires 1 person and can be done as a drive by.

    I don't agree, because players who don't have anything to carry have an advantage of using cannons to make the trip extremely short. A cannon shot from dock to Golden Sands and Dagger Tooth Tavern to name one of the biggest examples. While certainly only one person can sell, that one person is significantly slower and can't use cannon. Its just a much riskier play, you can kill a chest carrier and take the goods, you can't say the same about Emissaries. While certainly you can kill them, but there is nothing to take and nothing to stop the dead man from trying again. One can simple ignore their ship getting blasted as long as they can make it to the vendor once.

    The fact that they physically have to carry something makes it that much harder. I would switch around the comment then, if it is easier to physically sell something, then there should be no problem accepting this change. I mean if anything, it makes it easier for them if they hold that belief its easier.

  • @nabberwar Minimaps!! P-tooey! I spit on minimaps. It shouldn’t be anywhere. It’s not enough that it’d be a physical thing, and would make it akin to turning in a Chest if Legends, or Reaper’s chests (something that is fine with everyone)?

    Why is everyone so keen on having the game made easier? Down with minimaps, I say! A pox on ‘em!

  • @entspeak

    Why is everyone so keen on having the game made easier? Down with minimaps, I say! A pox on ‘em!

    Not an issue of need, just being consistent and avoiding people just hiding an emissary. Reaper's Grade 5 grants the ability to see all Emissaries, that shouldn't stop just because someone wants to hide their flag. That and I am only talking the map table not an actual HUD mini-map.

  • @d3adst1ck Erm... but you have to sink the ship before they can vote in order to gain the prize. Whereas, with the chests, you kill one pirate before the reach the Company Rep (a much easier, and faster thing to do) to claim that prize.

    I think making the flag a physical item that needs to be retrieved from the ship and turned in after the vote is reasonable.

  • @nabberwar No, I know what you mean. I’m expressing my distaste for the whole system currently implemented that turns the ship table into a kind of minimap.

    But, sure, if they’re keeping the current system, then sure... Reaper V can have the easy mode. Why not?

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