Weapon balance and how to fix the sword combat issue!

You're all wrong, and there's so much wrong with what the OP has mentioned that it's going to take me a while to write up...

@lordvader1o1 I've been playing since closed alpha and know more than most, so yeah... There's that.

@gamedev1995 said in Weapon balance and how to fix the sword combat issue!:

So as most of us are saying, combat is dreadful without providing any ways to improve it...

Most? How do you know that?

Here are my thoughts!
(Year 1 Legend, Athena 10)

Not important or relevant to, well, anything really.

I have played this game for countless hours

So? You can play for countless hours and still be clueless.

and I can tell you one thing, there is barely any skill gap in this game anymore with swords.

Wrong. Many don't even know the full extent of its use.

What happened to the days when attack chains, blocking and strategy played a huge role for who would win a fight

They're still there.

rather than whoever spams attack first with the most health wins?

They don't if you know how to block and dodge.

Swords need to be brought back to where they were at launch. Period.

Closer to it, maybe, but definitely not back to launch sword.

You were right as developers to go with your gut feeling on this matter,

So why are you countering their decisions with this thread?

the community over time has brought in a lot of people who provide little to no help in managing the balance within the game other than "this needs a nerf because I don't understand how to play this game".

Those are the kinds of community members they tend to ignore, and for good reason.

This is the majority of your audience,

Again, how do you know?

yes you have to listen to the community to gather feedback...

They do.

that doesn't mean they are always right which explains the mess we are in now!

No, it doesn't, and no, we're not in a mess right now. They know things you don't, like future plans, that may coincide with current or recent changes.

Swords need to be structured as followed:
Player Blocking? > No >

You don't want pirates to block?

Opponent Attacks = Stuns the player while removing the ability to hit through the opponents attack chain.

Stun was too extreme and was reduced extensively for good reason.

Why should I be prevented from counter-attacking just because you hit me 1st? Learn how to block in turn!

Player Blocking? > Yes >

No, then yes? Make up your mind!

Opponent Attacks = A short window will appear to attack the opponent once the chain ends.

Except they'd mostly be dead by the end of the chain, and with nothing to show for it.

This reverts the changes made to swords

Going backwards is almost always a bad idea.

and applies thought and strategy during 1 on 1 combat.

No, it doesn't. It makes combat 1-sided, which they already fixed by allowing for more mobility and counters.

I also believe that players need a larger hit detection for the block so that people jumping all around you can't magically hit through your block even though you are looking at them.

They're not magically hitting you through your block - you're just not turning fast enough or moving away from them.

Blunderbuss:
None of the guns should be a 1 shot kill

No point in having a blunderbuss without it, because without it, it automatically becomes the worst weapon in the game. Also, there are 20+ ways to avoid being 1-shot by it.

remove the 1 shot from the blunderbuss as this causes a lot of frustration.

Only against those that haven't learned how to avoid it.

Seeing someone walk up to you while you are shooting them with either the flintlock or eye of reach to see them one shot you is extremely annoying.

So, get out of the way! Nothing says you have to stand still while shooting.

It already has knockback which can be viable in a lot of situations,

True.

you don't need to make this the strongest weapon in order to use it effectively.

It's by far NOT the strongest weapon.

Lowering the damage will also stop people from spawn camping the sloop with one shot kills,

But it won'tstop spawn-camping.

I have done this and even I feel horrible for using it within its current state.

So, use a sword instead.

Eye of Reach:
The eye of reach seems to be the best weapon in the game for effectiveness during "double gunning", as people are calling it.

Debatable; depends on the situation.

Well myself and some friends did some testing with this weapon over the past few days by using blu tack to create a crosshair on your screen...

You can ruin your TV doing that.

because you can practically shoot this weapon with pinpoint accuracy without actually using the scope... this is the issue.

That's not an issue, because you can't - hip firing with the EoR means that you can't hit the right-side of a barn. If you have proof otherwise, post-update, I'd like to see it.

Please increase the time it takes before hip fire accuracy transitions into scoped, this will change the weapon to be used as intended rather than everyone using it to quickscope.

Quick-scoping is the bane of video game sniper rifles. Besides, they already did that.

Flintlock:
Well... its perfect!

Hey, look at that! We agree on something!

I hope this feedback was constructive and informative,

Constructive, yes. Productive, no. Informative? To enlighten me to your ignorance, probably.

Thank you!

You're welcome! 😅

@lordvader1o1 said in Weapon balance and how to fix the sword combat issue!:

@galactic-geek great... so if you have been playing as long as me and you are a real fan of this game then you should be liking the thread and agreeing with us... because I say again if you are REAL fan of this game and want it to grow then you will understand how broken combat is, the issues with it and what needs to be done to fix it. You and I shouldn’t be arguing over this because you should be standing with us admitting the faults.

Who are you to define what a REAL fan is?

The game has its faults, certainly, but most of what I've already responded to is simply due to lack of skill.

@lordvader1o1 said in Weapon balance and how to fix the sword combat issue!:

@galactic-geek Your arrogance and sarcasm is hilarious observe because it is the reason why Sea Of Thieves Combat is broken. I hope people as big headed and arrogant as you are happy with what you have achieved. A great game slowly turns broken because of players like you. Well done... now go back to your double gunning, spam bombing and Kangarooing around the seas.

Personal insults aside, there is nothing wrong with the use of 2 guns (sans exploit), using throwables, or jumping. All are easily counterable.

1. Double-guns - force them to miss.
2. Bombs - move out of the way to avoid damage or get closer to them so they hurt themselves.
3. Jumping - hit them as they land.

@gamedev1995 This will be the 3rd time I'm doing this for those of you who refuse to think for yourselves. You're welcome! 😉

@galactic-geek said in blunderbombs, blunderbuss, & sword combat:

@wusker said in blunderbombs, blunderbuss, & sword combat:

@galactic-geek 19 ways, please list them?

1. Back up
2. Back up left
3. Back up right
4. Run away
5. Run away left
6. Run away right
7. Run away back left
8. Run away back right
9. Jump
10. Jump left
11. Jump right
12. Jump back
13. Jump back left
14. Jump back right
15. Strafe left
16. Strafe right
17. Sword Dodge back
18. Sword dodge left
19. Sword dodge right
20. Sword dodge back left
21. Sword dodge back right
22. Use concealment
23. Use cover

Oh, look at that - 23 ways to avoid blundering into a blunder (and I'm sure that I'm still missing some).

Because a 1-shot requires all of the pellets to hit, any 1 of these can be used as a preventative measure by simply making some of those pellets miss.

If you take the time to look deeper into the thread that I quoted, you'll see that other pirates brought the number up from 23 to 28 with their own contributions

@lordvader1o1 said in Weapon balance and how to fix the sword combat issue!:

@galactic-geek 1) Force them to miss? didnt know Jedi mind tricks work on the seas...

2. This isnt the Matrix...

3. hit them as they land, I cannot believe what I am reading XD

All you gotta do is move out of their line of sight. Stay mobile = stay alive. That's also true for throwables.

I can't believe you didn't think of it - what goes up must come down; gravity yo!

@gamedev1995 said in Weapon balance and how to fix the sword combat issue!:

@galactic-geek You just proved my point entirely, you are one of those players who thinks that because they can win in every encounter the game is fair and balanced...

I make mistakes all of the time and lose encounters because of them. But rather than be quick to blame the game or the devs, I look inward at my mistakes and how I was beaten in order to learn from them.

Why are you so confident is saying your word is any better than ours?

Experience; knowledge; insight; skill; common sense; facts; evidence; logic... Etc. Call it whatever you want; just start using yours.

@bubah1z1 said in Weapon balance and how to fix the sword combat issue!:

Here is my take on the state of the PVP aspect of the game.

And here's my take on your responses. 😁

Cutlass:

• Start again from scratch, WAY TO OVERPOWERD.

Too. And they don't have to start from scratch, because they already did. We're well beyond that now.

• Your hitboxes need to be fixed.

Hit boxes, no; hit registratio, yes.

( Ex. you can sword people over the map )

The map table isn't that big, and they've already reduced the seord's range once.

• You should not be able to spam left click and get away with it.

You can't - the sword combo ends after 3 strikes.

• There is no skill gap anymore because off all these buffs you bring to swords,

There is a skill gap; it's all in how you personally use the sword, and many unknowingly under-utilize it or don't even know all of its capabilities. Just ask, and I'll be happy to elaborate on this point.

if your shots don't register you can get killed by any sword player.

This is true, and is why everyone agrees that hit registration should be looked into, which they are. Otherwise, try not to miss. 😅

• Deflecting with a sword should have a meaning at this moment it doesn't really.

It does - the moment you successfully block an attack, you have options. Sadly, many stand there like a training dummy.

• Make them do less damage overall.

Why? They just increased the damage, and many agree that it's largely for the better.

• You run way to fast when you hit a target with your swings.

Staying mobile is key to not getting hit and staying alive. If you're not going to move, you might as well surrender and hand them your loot.

• Remove or reduce the stun lock.

They already did. Again, stay mobile and don't get hit.

• The most anoying part is if you try to oneshot someone with a blunderbuss and it doesn't pay off

True, so aim for centermass to increase your odds of success.

you don't have enough time eat and run away from a guy spamming left click.

You do if you can stay mobile. Eating food doesn't slow you down. Alternatively, don't let them get close to you in the 1st place. Capitalize on their mistakes (for example, if they try a charge).

Blunderbuss:

• One shot kills when ADS is nice but make it consistent.

It is, at close range and when aimed at center mass.

I always make sure every pallet hits

Are you sure? To make sure, practice by having a crewmate stand at a wall or rock. See how many pellets marks are behind him when you shoot at him from various ranges - if you see any, he survived your 1-shot attempt.

even then they sometimes take 4 more sword swings to kill without them eating! (plenty of footage of this)

Hit registration or network latency issues (or both).

• The knockback is just frustrating because this most likley means they should have died in the first place but the shot never registerd.

No it doesn't; knockback works beyond the 1-shot kill range. It has to, because they don't get knock backed when they're already dead.

• Fix the bug when you can only reload all but one bullet.

Haven't heard of that bug - I always reload 5 shots.

Eye of Reach:

• This weapon is completly useless if the hitreg is not fixed.

That's true for any weapon that suffers from the hit reg issue.

The amount of hitmarkers without them registering on; players,skeletons,kegs,snakes,pigs,chickens,.. is unbelievable.

Happens to me maybe once a week, so I personally don't think it's bad as some say it is - and I sail just about every day.

• You took no scoping out of the game because... idk?

Balance, and to reinforce a sniper's sole purpose: long-range.

• Bring in headshot oneshots, maybe a noob gets lucky who knows.

That would favor mouse and keyboard pirates to the point of breaking gameplay balance. Even if controller users go controller only, that leaves PC pirates high and dry until the Steam release.

• This weapon is beautifull in combination with the Flintlock ( If they both work ).

Definitely subjective and subject to skill.

Flintlock:

• Pretty useless,

I beg to differ; jack of all trades, but master of none.

not the accuracy of a Eye of Reach,

It's actually more accurate if hipfired.

not the damage of a blunderbuss.

No, but unlike the blunderbuss, its damage is consistent.

At range the hits never do the damage they should.

It's 50% damage regardless of range.

Ships:

• You try to nerf the PvP aspect of the game over and over and over again to keep your beloved PvE players happy which is fine.

No they haven't. PvP has always been present. All they have done is ease the burden of PvE for smaller crews.

You try to take the "solo plays" out of the game and give a "crew" more of a meaning.

Kind of hard to balance 1v4. Impossible actually, without some major gameplay changes.

But what i don't get is how there are the same amount of ladders on a sloop,brig & galleon ?

Because there are still any number of other ways to board.

• There are diffrent ship speeds and i accept that but is there anyway to give people a "trailing boost" when you chase a ship for X amount of time.

It's already there - detonate a gunpowder behind your ship.

• There is no need for a ship to spawn with Firebombs, Blunderbombs and chainshots.

Yes there is; it gives them a viable deterrent when attacked early on by pirates that have been sailing for longer.

• Emissary Flags are griefed of ships all the time by just running into a island and turning them in or scuttling your ship so they despawn.

Scuttling doesn't despawn them; quitting out does - and that's being looked into. Turning in your own flag after sinking nets you only 1 or 2 gold.

Random Events:

• How about we stop spawning a kraken in the middle of a ship battle?

Kraken only spawns in between cloud events (sans FotD), and only on a random ship in open water.

The megs and skeleton ships are annoying but you'll survive those..

Yep.

But the kraken is just a instant loss.

Not if you know what you're doing.

Character:

• Can we stop being green skeletons or rendering in w/o clothes.

Agreed. An annoying bug for sure!

• Fix the hitboxes & hitreg on them.

Just the hit reg.

You have this beautifull forums with Feedback and Suggestions.

I certainly enjoy them.

but all you guys seem to care about is the PvE aspect of this which is just oh so sad.

You're lying to yourself. They care about ALL of it; it's their passion project.

Oh, I made it to the end? Good. 😅

@bubah1z1 said in Weapon balance and how to fix the sword combat issue!:

@galactic-geek

Thanks for you response, but from your response i can tell the kind of player you are.

You can't judge someone accurately from a single post...

You like to do the PvE aspect of the game

I like PvP too.

but when you come against one decent player who dubble guns down your whole galleon you think its overpowerd.

I don't think it's OP; using 2 guns is fine. It's the exploit that isn't, because it completely removes skill from the equation.

You correct me on my english, yet you type so many things wrong yourself;

I correct where I can, even hours after posting as I read replies.

"hit registratio", "seord's" ,... I didn't know this was english class my bad ( FYI: we would both have failed). :)

Mg English is exceptional, so while I'm not infallible, I definitely would have passed. 😅

Now back to the issue at hand;

• Swords are to overpowerd,

Disagree

if you don't see this then i don't know what to say.

That's fine. I'd be happy to show you.

• The hitreg is broken and you CAN sword over table maps.

Agree on the 1st point; still testing the 2nd.

• The "3 hit strike combo" should not be a thing since that is 75% HP.

Why not? It gives the defense some breathing room.

( but i can see where you PvE players come from :) )

Adventure mode; I can't stand long wait times for Arena.

• If you like to believe sword defecting is usefull I'm ok with that, i'll just keep jumping over you :)
  And I'll hit you on the way down. 😉

Also, I don't deflect. I stab you in the back.

• The blunderbuss does not always oneshot, even hitting all 10 pallets due to hitreg.

Yeah, but that's a bug; not a balance issue.

I don't think you play this game often, you do spend alot of time on the forums though. :)

I play this game almost every single day, and have since the closed alpha. And yes, I do spend a lot of time on the forums.

@bubah1z1 I just wanted to say that while I don't think it was truly productive overall in terms of gameplay objectives, I was excited that you took the time to invite me to go sailing with you and your girlfriend.

I enjoyed our candid and civil conversation regarding this thread and have more respect for you as a result, even if we still disagree on a few things and were unable to test other things out. Until next time! 😁

@bubah1z1 said in Weapon balance and how to fix the sword combat issue!:

@Galactic-Geek
When we were talking on the forums I had an idea of the kind of player you are
After the game We"ve just played together this just confirms it.

I don't think you are a bad person and i don't mean this in the wrong way but you are just delusional about the state of the game and how you see yourself in the game, You told me you rate yourself 9/10 overall.. I won't comment on this because otherwise it will feel like I'm comming at you.

Although You've told me you do alot of testing, All the tests i did with you on the ship turns out your tests were wrong; Silent repair, Hitboxes,..

I hope when Dueling is brought into the game we get to duel someday and i'll show you what I mean !

Greetings, BubaH1Z1

Well, this is unfortunate... 😑

First, let me start by saying that I said YOU were a 9 or 10. I rated myself at 8 or 9, and told you that. Regardless, it's a ballpark figure based on 1st impressions and inflated egos, which isn't really measurable. Please try to listen more carefully next time. 😉

I admit to being wrong about the silent repair, but that's because my own testing was flawed.

As for the hitboxes, they're working exactly as intended and our tests showed that. Yes, some bullets hit even when missing your head, but that's only because our pirates aren't as big as others, and the hitbox is designed as a 1-size fits all. This is why I said smaller pirates are easier to hit and larger ones aren't - it's because if you're aiming at center like you're supposed to, you're going to be aiming at the thin torso vs. a fat one, where the bullet might appear to pass through a part of the belly. In reality, you're simply missing the hitbox on the fatter pirate. It's like the young son from the film, The Patriot said: "aim small, miss small" - because you have the visual of the thin pirate, you're aiming for the thin center mass where you'll definitely hit. You don't get that with the fatter pirate because his bulk is an illusion, or a coverup of the hitbox. For the same reason, it's why you can still get a hit on a miss with a thin pirate like our tests showed today.

Hit registration is not about the hitboxes at any rate; it's about the registration of the hit. You're hitting your mark, but between your network and the server, as well as the networksof others, it's not consolidating that information and therefore can't register it. This has been discussed to death within the community.

@CotU42 No, don't!

🤣