Hello everyone, each time I go in the LFG in the Xbox app, I see a lot of alliances servers in creation. I Don't figure how it is not considered as cheating as long as it's not the way the game is meant to be played… I mean you would have implemented pve servers if it was so.
Just want to know your opinion.
Alliance Servers should be considered as cheating
I don't think it should be considered cheating, since the game doesn't stop this mechanic. However, I agree that alliance servers are extremely OP, and even though not all ships are in sync during the game, the low risk reward (or zero, in many cases) is really a problem, especially now that we have ledgers.
I made a topic about how to rebuild alliances, there are great suggestions from different players, you can see it by clicking here.
I don't think it's cheating. However, certain aspects can be frustrating. Sailing in a pirate game with no risk is silly. Another example: I used to think the Legendary Thief title was so amazing, until it was explained to me that Alliance members can exchange the chests to work towards that commendation. Blah.
I would love to see them limited. Maybe only 4 ships can be in an alliance at one time. Maybe alliance members get gold share only, and XP is gained only by the crew turning in the loot. Maybe commendation targets can only be collected by the crew completing the task. BTW, @TargasBR if I'm stealing some of the ideas in your post, my apologies.
@sammyr0cks said in Alliance Servers should be considered as cheating:
BTW, @TargasBR if I'm stealing some of the ideas in your post, my apologies.Don't worry, mate. These are not my ideas, from the moment I post here, they are ideas from the community ;)
Remembering that not only my post has some interesting things, see the comments below as well.
Currently it is cheating. They are accomplishing the server alliance through an exploit in the match making system. They are creating server alliance from the moment they are hitting the "set sail" button.
2 to 3 sometimes 4 ships pop into the same server at the same time, they form the alliance. They rinse and repeat and as they hand off that server and create another one.
If it was a server alliance where a player went to every individual ship and either fought them into submission or parley'd for the ship, then yes I would agree that is alright. That is not what is happening.
SIDE NOTE This is xbox opt out servers that are able to exploit the match making.
@pananight I have no problem with it as it doesn't really affect my gameplay. Rare gave them the tools to play in alliances without a limit. If rare doesn't like it they could have created limitations in the last year or so they have been around. There inaction on server alliances speaks volumes. If that's how they want to play who am i to say it's wrong. I've never played in an alliance server and would find it boring having no/little risk. To each his own I guess.
In conclusion, is it cheating...no. Are you loosing an aspect of the game, in this case the risk....yes.@ronin20 I know it doesn't change a lot for us, but look, now with the new emissaries stystem, there's a leaderboard for each faction, who do you think will be on top of those leaderboards ? And it's less people to sink and rob for me, too, cause if every player that wanted to do quests were searching for alliance servers, there would be nobody to rob on regular servers, or maybe newbies, but it's not funny...
@hombre said in Alliance Servers should be considered as cheating:
I don't think Alliances get credit for the leaderboards.
They dont.
@xultanis-dragon said in Alliance Servers should be considered as cheating:
Currently it is cheating. They are accomplishing the server alliance through an exploit in the match making system. They are creating server alliance from the moment they are hitting the "set sail" button.
2 to 3 sometimes 4 ships pop into the same server at the same time, they form the alliance. They rinse and repeat and as they hand off that server and create another one.
If it was a server alliance where a player went to every individual ship and either fought them into submission or parley'd for the ship, then yes I would agree that is alright. That is not what is happening.
SIDE NOTE This is xbox opt out servers that are able to exploit the match making.
No.. it literally isn't cheating and is in no way against the rules.
Dude.. nobody is exploiting... alliance servers are not exploits... joining a game looking for your friends ship because you want to be placed isn't a matchmaking exploit... it's simply finally ending up on the same server... which isn't against rules in any way shape or form...
Groups also more often than not instead of praying to RNG.. sail around offering to pay someone in chests or ask nicely to invite their friends to their ship and leave. More often than not.. people are even cool with doing that.
There is nothing cheaty, exploity, or against the rules ending up in, or working towards setting up a server alliance. Ledger leaderboards do NOT factor in alliance hand ins.. so people really don't need to care how someone else ends up in a game.. that's really all there is to it..
Wanna talk exploits? Lets talk speed swimming while continuously dropping and carrying chests.
Wanna talk exploits? Let's talk babies who forcequit game when they get attacked so their Emissary flag can't be picked up instead of losing it because they're sinking.
@sammyr0cks a dit dans Alliance Servers should be considered as cheating :
I used to think the Legendary Thief title was so amazing, until it was explained to me that Alliance members can exchange the chests to work towards that commendation. Blah.
Frankly, I don't care how others can get it. I know I got mine fair and square and that's what should matters. To you too.
So what ? Because some people are "cheating" to get it means my steal doesn't mean anything ? Hell, no, I remember them, I remember my first Athena steal and I'm proud to have and wear the title.
Nobody really cares about your title either, nobody will say to you "so you got it without actually stealing ?".The title has the same value as the adventures and stories that go with it.
It has the value you choose.My stories were awesome IMO, so my "Legendary Thief" title is awesome !
The only other title that will replace this one is the Shrouded Ghost one. I hope the story behind it will be extraordinary !
@papy-pitch I get your point of view, and I respect it. But, I think the title should carry some weight, and it doesn't. Just my opinion.
By the way, I just got the Shrouded Ghost on Wednesday, patch day. It spawned on us just as we were sailing next to the Sea Dog tavern. We hit a hard right turn, but it still despawned on us. We headed for open waters, despondent about what had happened, but still praying. Low and behold, it did in fact respawn on us about 10 seconds later. After that, it was business as usual, with the exception of everyone screaming in chat, and my hands shaking so badly I could hardly aim 😂
@tre-oni why are you so insistent on server alliances not being exploits? What's the salient difference with drop swimming chests to you?
@dekeita said in Alliance Servers should be considered as cheating:
@tre-oni why are you so insistent on server alliances not being exploits? What's the salient difference with drop swimming chests to you?
One is quite literally an exploit, and one is using a feature Rare intentionally introduced while everyone tries to call it an exploit.
Why is everyone so insistent that a mechanic Rare introduced that literally allows every ship on a server to alliance if they want to is an exploit or cheating?
How ridiculous is that? It's not an oversight. You'd have to be real dumb as developers to not be able to see that coming and not put limitations in if that was completely unintended. It's a tool people can use or ignore as they see fit.
Seriously.. got over your own hangups regarding the mechanic. It doesn't affect you, it literally isn't cheating, and there were even Rare support tickets where support literally said "they don't assist in, nor provide support for server takeovers" and that as long as everyone sticks to ToS and codes of conduct, there's really nothing more to be said.
There's absolutely no argument to be had about "cheating" when the only real bit of gameplay that can be legitimately considered "competitive" is the ledger leaderboard, which alliances have zero bearing on.
Literally only matters because plenty of you want to carry on that it devalues this or that (which is entirely a you problem, since this game has no progression or improvements to be earned. The value you place on your own accomplishments is a personal matter. Nobody else cares what value someone else places on their personal accomplishments), and ironically, when it does come down to people talking about wanting something to matter (PL) most of you are usually the first ones in to talk about how "Its your story that makes you PL" "it your journey that matters, not some rank".. and yet people feel the absolute need to keep trying to call out people using a mechanic as it's supposed to function, putting in the effort to set themselves up in a session they and others end up content in.. as cheating.
@tre-oni Stop making a strawman out of things that are intended, when we both know I'm not talking about 6 ships randomly deciding to be peaceful.
Why wouldn't they just let PvE servers exist, or let you queue up with multiple ships if it was intended.
@dekeita said in Alliance Servers should be considered as cheating:
@tre-oni Stop making a strawman out of things that are intended, when we both know I'm not talking about 6 ships randomly deciding to be peaceful.
Am I just supposed to infer that from "why are you so insistent on server alliances not being exploits?" When lately everyone raging about alliances as cheating an exploits have just been calling it out as a whole? Just mad because they falsely think alliances contribute to leaderboards, or because of the rep someone else manages to pull in.
Either way, there's literally no difference from sailing around and hitting a full server alliance, or sailing up and asking people if you can have the ship. That doesn't just make it an exploit because a group of friends put in the work to set it up.
And let's be real.. PvE servers are never coming. PvE servers by design would be an entirely different scenario with its own issues to even sort through and work out if they even cared about making it viable as a feature. They dont. People using a mechanic to allow server alliances is the closest thing anyone is ever going to get to private or PvE servers, and even still.. they aren't really.., and if they end up putting in the time to make it happen.. whatever.. you do you..
Getting all-of your friends in a server isn't an exploit, nor is it against ToS, or code of conduct. If it were cheating.. it would be.
@tre-oni I never said it was against ToS, and I personally wouldn't go so far as to say it's "cheating" to the degree of warranting a ban.
But again, why is drop swimming a chest, an exploit to you, but finangling the party/server mechanic isn't?
@dekeita said in Alliance Servers should be considered as cheating:
@tre-oni I never said it was against ToS, and I personally wouldn't go so far as to say it's "cheating" to the degree of warranting a ban.
But again, why is drop swimming a chest, an exploit to you, but finangling the party/server mechanic isn't?
You don't have to force your way through to get into a lobby with friends. The servers can literally just do that without trying. The server has no parameters that actively try to keep friends separate.. you don't have to circumvent that to play with friends.. it just disperses people throughout whatevers available. It can literally happen naturally.. It happens alot more often than people want to believe it does.. I wouldn't necessarily call it "finagling" your way into it. Also.. Any number of factors of ending up getting your friends in that I wouldn't really consider "finagling".. I've seen people leaving and checking in with anyone else in server to see if they wanted the ship.. people making chest trades.. whatever.. I wouldn't really call it finagling.. I'd just call it a community playing the game, and enjoying it under Rares "tools not rules" mindset, and using tools to put themselves in a personally ideal, or fun situation. Part of the freedom of it all.
Drop swimming a chest to move faster than intended isn't a feature, or a very blatantly foreseeable side effect of some feature Rare decided to add. Literally an exploit in animations, and tricking the game.
You don't need to trick the servers to play with your friends. Sure some people manage it that way.. but the servers actually do still do it on their own, it's just down to how the server decides to place people.. and there are alot of worlds/servers
@tre-oni Well, running is a mechanic Rare implemented, and so is dropping a chest. And some people have decided to use those tools back to back in repeated succession. I'm not sure why you're against Rares enlightened "tools not rules" mantra tre
@tre-oni come to think of it though. The two are quite equivlant because it's not dropping Chests or running that's an exploit, it's doing them in repeated succession.
In the same way that it's obviously not joining a server that's an exploit. But doing it over and over till you get what you want.
@dekeita said in Alliance Servers should be considered as cheating:
@tre-oni Well, running is a mechanic Rare implemented, and so is dropping a chest. And some people have decided to use those tools back to back in repeated succession. I'm not sure why you're against Rares enlightened "tools not rules" mantra tre
Playing ignorant on clear differences between mechanical functions and intentions isn't going to help drive your point
@dekeita said in Alliance Servers should be considered as cheating:
Well, running is a mechanic Rare implemented, and so is dropping a chest. And some people have decided to use those tools back to back in repeated succession.
And Rare hasn't patched out that or Alliances. So we're all good!
So nice when we can agree on things. =)
@hombre said in Alliance Servers should be considered as cheating:
@dekeita said in Alliance Servers should be considered as cheating:
Well, running is a mechanic Rare implemented, and so is dropping a chest. And some people have decided to use those tools back to back in repeated succession.
And Rare hasn't patched out that or Alliances. So we're all good!
So nice when we can agree on things. =)
The way I see it, chest swimming and sword lunge diving are quite literally.. both exploits in the way the game handles momentum... Rare obviously isn't doing anything about sword lunge, it was unintended originally.. they came to love it. They left it there. They've said as much. It doesn't change that that they are exploits though. They can stay, I don't really care..
But when talking exploits..
Getting friends on the same server? Not so much.
@tre-oni & hombre
Well the funny thing is, the 50% alliance share is obviously intended, and thats the part that bothers me, regardless of how people use exploits to take advantage of it. It would still bother me even if they did something about the matchmaking exploit. And personally i'd rather they could fix all exploits, especially combat ones, aside from the sword lunge which has come around to being intended.
But i'm just curious why you're so insistent on the idea that theres no exploits what so ever. Server hopping for any reason is an exploit. Asking someone random for their ship is an exploit. All of this stuff is an unintended consquence of the systems we use to play the game. And its not a big deal for the most part, i'm sure it's even seen as a positive sometimes, how the community has taken advantage of the exploit to make events and what not. But nobody in their right mind would design the system the way it is, if they wanted people to play on the same server with multiple ships. It can happen randomly sure, but one of the primary ideas of Sea of Thieves is that you never really know whats gonna happen, sometimes you run into people you know already, sure thats great. But if it was meant to be a thing you can control, they'd give you the option of controlling it. I dont understand why you're unwilling to admit that.
Eh, I think we're getting into semantics here. Sounds like you guys just have different definitions on what constitutes an exploit.
Well sure. It doesn't matter to me anyway, I'll argue for the postive effects of exploits, the whole Noah's Ark thing was an exploit but I kinda thought it should've been left in the game. And really, it seems weird that they ever bothered to change that whole system, when they were planning on making a much more ridiculous cheese with Alliances anyway.
I just wish I'd come across some of these super profitable Alliances that people are concerned about.
Maybe I'm just anti-social, but I've been in two Alliances since they were introduced. One was for battling a skellie fleet and went nowhere. Another was just an out of the blue brig passing by and was actually pretty profitable.
All the other offers of Alliances I got were from crews I managed to slip away from after they attacked me. I'd either get my anchor up in time or give them the slip on land. All of a sudden, I'd get "we're friendly" messages and offers of Alliance.
I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but c'mon guys. Give me a little credit.
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