Losing your emissary flag

@kommodoreyenser

Incorrect, the risk in the emissary system is sinking, period. You sink you lose the bonus, you stay afloat and get your reward.

You are describing how the game currently operates. But how the game currently operates is not always optimal game design. Personally, when my crew loses our flag, we usually call it a night. If there were a chance for recovery, however small, we would stay on longer, and I guarantee that period of uncertainty when we were trying to recover would be fueled by adrenaline, urgency, and fun!

It would also encourage player interaction. If another ship took your flag, you'd have way more incentive to track them down and fight.

Seems like better game design to allow re-attachmennt, not to mention more realistic. I don't see any downsides to allowing this?

@prescafatty said in Losing your emissary flag:

@kommodoreyenser

Incorrect, the risk in the emissary system is sinking, period. You sink you lose the bonus, you stay afloat and get your reward.

You are describing how the game currently operates. But how the game currently operates is not always optimal game design. Personally, when my crew loses our flag, we usually call it a night. If there were a chance for recovery, however small, we would stay on longer, and I guarantee that period of uncertainty when we were trying to recover would be fueled by adrenaline, urgency, and fun!

It would also encourage player interaction. If another ship took your flag, you'd have way more incentive to track them down and fight.

Seems like better game design to allow re-attachmennt, not to mention more realistic. I don't see any downsides to allowing this?

The constant attacking of the ship that sank you in the first place, their crew may beg to differ. What do they get out of sinking you a 2nd, 3rd, 4th time in the matter of 30 minutes? It is doubtful you will have any further loot onboard or raise another emissary flag beings you are trying to recover yours before it is sold. You also will continue to get fresh supplies each time you sink while they do not have that luxury. You can't just look at one side of the story when it comes to balancing things.

Floating barrels that had your supplies so they could continue to defend themselves would be a minimum. Perhaps your flag also continues to increase in value for the ship that is trying to cash it in as you continue to sink in your attempt to recover it but that seems like an easy way to cheese flags for alliances.

@kommodoreyenser

The constant attacking of the ship that sank you in the first place, their crew may beg to differ. What do they get out of sinking you a 2nd, 3rd, 4th time in the matter of 30 minutes?

Well, the first time they sank you, they would get your flag and whatever loot you had, as is currently the case. Flag reattachment would just provide more incentive for the sunk ship to take revenge, so the attacker would want to bustle to an outpost and cash in ASAP.

I'm not sure what you mean by "sinking a 2nd, 3rd, 4th time in a matter of 30 minutes?" What benefit currently exists for sinking a ship 4 times in 30 minutes? That's not enough time for a ship to make any meaningful progress in the emissary system...

I completely agree if you sink at the same time as your opponent but you kill everyone you should have the opportunity to put the flag back on at an outpost this will give the danger of having to sail with default supplies or the danger of transporting it via rowboat perhaps add a way for level 5 reapers to see a flag as to add a little more counter play, so even transporting flags will open players up to attack so many servers are empty of flags due to everyone being scared of being attacked, half the time when you reach grade 5 you will be lucky to even spot one ship on your map this will also add more incentive to level reaper flags perhaps a topic for a separate post but the idea is there

@prescafatty said in Losing your emissary flag:

@kommodoreyenser

The constant attacking of the ship that sank you in the first place, their crew may beg to differ. What do they get out of sinking you a 2nd, 3rd, 4th time in the matter of 30 minutes?

I'm not sure what you mean by "sinking a 2nd, 3rd, 4th time in a matter of 30 minutes?" What benefit currently exists for sinking a ship 4 times in 30 minutes? That's not enough time for a ship to make any meaningful progress in the emissary system...

My point is there is no benefit for someone to keep sinking you as you attempt to continue attacking for retrieving your flag. Currently there is no benefit for you to continue to try and gain your flag back either but you want to add a benefit via reattaching the flag.

So, if you want to add the benefit of being able to attack repeatedly and try to reclaim and reattach your flag, what added benefit should be given to the ship that got your flag in the first place if they repeatedly sink you when you continue to attack one or more times?

@kommodoreyenser Oh gotcha, I understand. Yeah, I think the flag is the benefit. If you don't offload it quickly and the original owner returns to fight for it, you're going to use resources defending it. So best sell it before they track you down.

@prescafatty said in Losing your emissary flag:

@kommodoreyenser Oh gotcha, I understand. Yeah, I think the flag is the benefit. If you don't offload it quickly and the original owner returns to fight for it, you're going to use resources defending it. So best sell it before they track you down.

I just don't think it will be a good idea in general. Crews keeping their ship afloat keep meaning less and less these days. High grade emissary flags are the only thing keeping people from not caring about sinking. They need to make people want to keep their ship afloat more rather than less and making the flag re-attachable IMO would go the wrong way with it. The fact that this would also increase crews doing the repeat behavior of the endless kamikaze runs without any reward for successfully defending against such crews makes it worse.

The simple solution in the event you end up with your own flag is just sell it to the same company for the faction rep and gold you would have got if you lowered it. Though it does not count towards any emissary rep in anyway as in no value multiplier added to it, no points to a new flag rank if you put up a new one and no value towards the ledger, this is your punishment for your failure.

Still only worth 1g to the reaper man, he is not impressed with your failures.

Honestly I don't know why it isn't like this normally.

@vivio1337 said in Losing your emissary flag:

The simple solution in the event you end up with your own flag is just sell it to the same company for the faction rep and gold you would have got if you lowered it. Though it does not count towards any emissary rep in anyway as in no value multiplier added to it, no points to a new flag rank if you put up a new one and no value towards the ledger, this is your punishment for your failure.

Still only worth 1g to the reaper man, he is not impressed with your failures.

Honestly I don't know why it isn't like this normally.

It's not like that right now because that would promote vengeance with ZERO reward for the crew who took your flag if they continually sink you as you attempt to retake it. All the possible reward is then only towards the ship trying to take back their flag and ZERO for the person who has it. Bring up a reward for the other crew if they manage to keep it and maybe a lot of minds would change.

@isaacmarteen13 said in Losing your emissary flag:

At the moment when you lose your emissary flag, and recover it, you cannot put it back on your boat. I think this should be changed so that if you recover it you can put it back on to keep your levels.

i think it's fine because most reaper ships will leave you alone after they sink you

@isaacmarteen13 said in Losing your emissary flag:

At the moment when you lose your emissary flag, and recover it, you cannot put it back on your boat. I think this should be changed so that if you recover it you can put it back on to keep your levels.

OP, the mechanics as currently designed prevent you from arbitrarily dropping your flag, while retaining the benefit.

There are many occasions where one might self-sink for both offensive and defensive purposes. I do it all the time. Thing is, I can't do it if I am concerned with retaining my emissary rank.

When you fly the emissary, you are all in. It is a well designed mechanic, and working as intended.

This is highly exploitable. As much as I would love to see it you could level up, put supplies in storage crate, scuttle and come back, keep all your loot and look like you are not doing anything but right when you get to an outpost you raise it and sell all of your stuff

@isaacmarteen13 i mean I feel as if it should punish you for losing it in the first place like either delevel you perminantly by 1 or something. But idk

I do find it funny though how you can slap a piece of driftwood on a cannonball hole 10x larger then it and seemingly stop it from leaking even though you can still see the outside shining through but you can't just shove an emessary flag back in the flag hole thing it was in to begin with.

@brknjackdaw yeah, but maybe lose a level, so it’s not op

@angelsdawn6055 yeah i think you should lose a level of it when you reattach

@l-snapper-l not if they make it so that if you scuttle then you can’t reattach, and you lose a level for reattaching.

@naughtyd0gg if you could lose a level for reattaching it would be more balanced

@isaacmarteen13 said in Losing your emissary flag:

@l-snapper-l not if they make it so that if you scuttle then you can’t reattach, and you lose a level for reattaching.

@naughtyd0gg if you could lose a level for reattaching it would be more balanced

@angelsdawn6055 yeah i think you should lose a level of it when you reattach

This is still very exploitable, as has been pointed out. Even at grade 4 you are making 2x value on your treasure turn-ins. Being able to retain that after dropping your flag removes the whole purpose of the emissary system.

I achieve grade five. I see reaper on the map. I drop flag. Reaper can't see me! Load up on loot. Sail to an outpost. Raise the flag. Presto - loot sold at 200% markup!

And who needs to scuttle?

• Thanks, handy shoreline. I needed that hole.
• Thanks, handy ghost ship. I needed that hole.
• Thanks, handy meg. I needed that hole.
• Thanks, handy random powder keg. I needed that hole.
• Thanks, handy storm. I neeed that hole.
• Thanks, handy cannon skelly. I needed that hole.
• Thanks, handy island cannon. I needed that hole.

Not to mention just bucketing water into one's own ship. How about a quick swipe through the red sea? The list goes on and on.

You lost your emissary flag. Go raise another and get your stuff back, you will be back probably 1 level below where you were.

If a Reaper took it, this still holds true IF you can sink them and get your stuff back.

Running back to get your stuff without a flag raised is your own fault. No re-attaching, ever, period. That destroys the risk in the risk/reward balance. Unless you want to ditch the loot multiplier that is.

@vin-the-rat honestly just being toxic rn XD it was just a suggestion I put out about 4 months ago, only a suggestion and if you don’t like the idea you don’t need to keep repeating it

@isaacmarteen13 said in Losing your emissary flag:

@vin-the-rat honestly just being toxic rn XD it was just a suggestion I put out about 4 months ago, only a suggestion and if you don’t like the idea you don’t need to keep repeating it

OP, my offering counterpoint to your suggestion is not me being toxic. I have offered very lucid and rational feedback on why your idea will not work mechanically.

If you are unable to handle simple counterpoint, that is your problem.

I don't think you should be able to re-attach it, but id DO think if you recover it, you should be able to hand it in and that counts as "lowering" the flag. if you can re-attach it, it kind of loses all risk for keeping your emissary bonus

To balance it out, enemy players should also be able to raise your broken emissary flag as their own if they want.

I disagree about keeping all of your levels. You did allow your boat to sink. Having said that losing 2 levels as a penalty would be fine my book it it not reducing below 2. In this way you can re-attach upon rescue and the other team / environment has inflicted a penalty on you for sinking.

@yungkrusty said in Losing your emissary flag:

To balance it out, enemy players should also be able to raise your broken emissary flag as their own if they want.

This would promote non-emissary ships hunting regular emissary ships. While I think it would be good to give the other emissary players a taste of the harassment Reaper's get from non-emissary ships, this will destroy the "opt-in" PvP system Rare has built.

Also, Reaper's are the primary hunters and sinkers of other emissary ships. Why would they want to raise a flag they just got when it is worth way more to them to have the emissary bonus for Reaper and turn in said flag?

@hug-e-bear said in Losing your emissary flag:

I don't think you should be able to re-attach it, but id DO think if you recover it, you should be able to hand it in and that counts as "lowering" the flag. if you can re-attach it, it kind of loses all risk for keeping your emissary bonus

The reason it is as current, is that it promotes you trying to stay afloat at all costs. Once you sink, there isn't much reason to try and go for revenge other than ego and maybe your loot if you had a bunch.

I personally think they should remove the reward from lowering it. The bonus and the emissary mission is reward enough. The lowering reward just leads to more people quickly running to an outpost and cannoning over to vote it down when they finally get confronted on the seas

@naughtyd0gg said in Losing your emissary flag:

@galactic-geek

Maybe it could be that people would purposely scuttle after fleeing from a fight(So the opposing enemy will no longer chase), gather the flag swim to a island wait for their crew mate to pick them up?

Don't know for sure but it could create a betty hill skit and break the system.

benny hill good sir

@captain-fob4141 actually no, the context is that you keep the grade 5 you had. You’re not getting a second G5 for recovering your own flag. This means that if you had already collected the emissary quest you don’t get a new one. This is simply to keep your multiplier if you get sunk and a are able to recover the flag. There have been times when I have loot and am at 5 and on the way to turn in I am sunk by let’s say a volcano. I have a row boat and recovered everything but the flag that came up is useless because I have to re raise a new one and get even more loot to get to 5 again to sell everything with the desired multiplier. It’s just more convenient and makes sense, I mean how hard could it be to just plot the flag back where it was? You could also have the choice if you sink someone to use their flag and steal their bonus xp and gold benefits.

@illbushido305 said in Losing your emissary flag:

@captain-fob4141 actually no, the context is that you keep the grade 5 you had. You’re not getting a second G5 for recovering your own flag. This means that if you had already collected the emissary quest you don’t get a new one. This is simply to keep your multiplier if you get sunk and a are able to recover the flag. There have been times when I have loot and am at 5 and on the way to turn in I am sunk by let’s say a volcano. I have a row boat and recovered everything but the flag that came up is useless because I have to re raise a new one and get even more loot to get to 5 again to sell everything with the desired multiplier. It’s just more convenient and makes sense, I mean how hard could it be to just plot the flag back where it was? You could also have the choice if you sink someone to use their flag and steal their bonus xp and gold benefits.

I want to quote my most recent post regarding people aquiring and using an emissary flag from a ship they sank:
@kommodoreyenser said in Losing your emissary flag:

This would promote non-emissary ships hunting regular emissary ships. While I think it would be good to give the other emissary players a taste of the harassment Reaper's get from non-emissary ships, this will destroy the "opt-in" PvP system Rare has built.

Also, Reaper's are the primary hunters and sinkers of other emissary ships. Why would they want to raise a flag they just got when it is worth way more to them to have the emissary bonus for Reaper and turn in said flag?

As far as keeping your grade if you sink, not unless a Reaper emissary who sank you gets immediate rep/gold and no longer has to turn in your flag to get credit. Even then, this completely destroys the risk emissary ships are supposed to have for that nice 1.25x-2.5x multiplier.

As a guy who plays reapers bones I would like to at least see a requirement that you have to have another emissary flag raised at the time you pick yours back up to reattach it. I can see ships constantly suiciding against me over and over for it wasting my supplies with no gain for myself.
It is already hard enough just finding and catching an emissary in the first place than to have to fend them off a few more times for no extra gain.

@illbushido305 shouldnt be rewarded for sinking to anything

@captain-fob4141 you’re not getting rewarded for sinking, you’re getting a boost in rep and gold if you manage to recover the flag.