Is it time to fix the sword-lunge physics exploit yet?

  • I tried to get back into SoT on multiple occasions but the sword lunge torpedo bug just continues to ruin it for me.

    And yes, its a bug — that was left as a “feature” because people found it convenient. Unfortunately, the powers that be, erred on the side of ignoring the negative impact it made to the game.

    I for one am sick of getting boarded by ninja aqua men that just lung themselves from the beach after we made the effort to carefully creep up on them, using the sun and terrain to get the drop on a crew on land.

    And yes, I am salty about it. Yes I could learn to ‘git good’ and I am totally on board with doing that if the game would stick to its intended design rather than being forced to accept an obvious physics exploit.

    There are loading players into cannons, harpoons, rowboats, magic cannon balls — It’s a good time as any to fix it or introduce a new mechanic that helps a get a player where want go faster; in an intended way.

    At the end of the day, this will probably be a discarded post like the others — but I would like Rare to consider how this sinks the naval/pirate experience some of us are looking for.

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  • The devs like it, it's never going away.

  • @d3adst1ck said in Is it time to fix the sword-lunge physics exploit yet?:

    The devs like it, it's never going away.

    Can you kindly link me to a post where the devs have stated that?

  • @sumtallgy Watch any of their dev streams where they do it repeatedly. I don't have a direct link to where they have said they like it, but they made a statement in one of the dev videos on their youtube that it was an unintended effect from the physics engine but that it adds a lot to the game and they aren't going to remove it.

    They have fixed bugs relating to the sword lunge itself without removing the ability to glide through the water. For example, v2.0.8 fixed a bug that would cause the lunge animation to play twice if you lunged into the water.

  • @d3adst1ck Thank you for the clarity -- it's appreciated!

    Did the v2.0.8 fix reduce the exploitable distance players could lunge through the water?

  • Ladder guard properly with Blunderbuss or Blunder bombs and problem of boarding via sword lunge solved.

  • @sumtallgy this was decided pre-release in communication that was and is still under nda and thus cannot be shared.

    They like it, they use it it is here to stay.

  • its not even that common anymore due to the prominence of double guning, any way its countered easily lol.

  • devs liking something so it stays is not logical as developers.

    there are many bad features in games left in because devs liked them, that can ruin games it hasnt ruined this one yet... so i think they should be keeping metric on peoples desire to keep it.

    I only want it because swimming blows, if swimspeed were better, or if it were easier to get to and from ships such as rowboats that are not just worse than the sword lunge.. then i wouldnt want its bug anymore...

    So what is everyone root issue they want solved?

    mine is mobility without it is bad.

  • its honestly not an issue, 99% of the playerbase either uses it or has used it to their benefit.

  • @blappo-spawn said in Is it time to fix the sword-lunge physics exploit yet?:

    mine is mobility without it is bad.

    This and the fact that it would take a bit of effort from Rare in order to fix it. They know that not only would they have to fix it, but they also have to do a bunch of work to replace the lost functionality. Sword lunging is a very bad look for the game and makes the dev's look amateur for allowing it. Unfortunately Rare doesn't really care that much and probably are pretty amateur compared to any other AAA studio, since this is just one of many bugs and underdeveloped parts of this game.

  • @waronpants2664 said in Is it time to fix the sword-lunge physics exploit yet?:

    @blappo-spawn said in Is it time to fix the sword-lunge physics exploit yet?:

    mine is mobility without it is bad.

    This and the fact that it would take a bit of effort from Rare in order to fix it. They know that not only would they have to fix it, but they also have to do a bunch of work to replace the lost functionality. Sword lunging is a very bad look for the game and makes the dev's look amateur for allowing it. Unfortunately Rare doesn't really care that much and probably are pretty amateur compared to any other AAA studio, since this is just one of many bugs and underdeveloped parts of this game.

    I absolutely agree, its just lazy. it being a happy accident is fine IMHO but then it needs polish to feel like its intended, such as lunging and hitting water reguardless of being 1 step off should cause it... thus making it more accessible tool for even day 1 players. It would feel even better if when you charged your sword you could see faint arrow showing your distance, then being on land or being next to water you could easily tell you, from the position you are at, can achieve the water dash, also add it to tutorial island.

    A bit of polish and it would stop being a bug.

  • @blappo-spawn
    From what i've read, and i may be mistaken, it looks like you don't fully understand how to pull off the Sword Lunge, and subsequent water dash, consistently.
    You don't need to stand in a sweetspot or a certain distance away from the water to do it.

    Hold block (M2/LT), charge your attack (M1/RT), then jump (spacebar/A) when your sword rushes forward (or go by ear and listen for the swooshing audio cue).
    That's the trick. That's all there is.

    I highly doubt it will go away, allthough not on the same level, it's somewhat akin to Quake's strafe jumping or Tribes' skiing. Unintended design that is now part of the game and it's DNA.

  • @blappo-spawn said in Is it time to fix the sword-lunge physics exploit yet?:

    @waronpants2664 said in Is it time to fix the sword-lunge physics exploit yet?:

    @blappo-spawn said in Is it time to fix the sword-lunge physics exploit yet?:

    mine is mobility without it is bad.

    This and the fact that it would take a bit of effort from Rare in order to fix it. They know that not only would they have to fix it, but they also have to do a bunch of work to replace the lost functionality. Sword lunging is a very bad look for the game and makes the dev's look amateur for allowing it. Unfortunately Rare doesn't really care that much and probably are pretty amateur compared to any other AAA studio, since this is just one of many bugs and underdeveloped parts of this game.

    I absolutely agree, its just lazy. it being a happy accident is fine IMHO but then it needs polish to feel like its intended, such as lunging and hitting water reguardless of being 1 step off should cause it... thus making it more accessible tool for even day 1 players. It would feel even better if when you charged your sword you could see faint arrow showing your distance, then being on land or being next to water you could easily tell you, from the position you are at, can achieve the water dash, also add it to tutorial island.

    A bit of polish and it would stop being a bug.

    The function is fine... maybe. But it shouldn't be on the sword. Weapons should be about dmg not mobility. Warframe had this exact same bug(caused by same interaction) and it cause players to start maxing attack speed and choosing their melee weapons based on which had the highest mobilty. DE(the devs of Warframe) realized that players really like its function, but didn't want a bug to be a primary means of traversal, so they introduced a new movement system that was both more functional and a proper feature that everyone could use regardless of loadout.

    Rare made cannon launching a thing because they realized that players were miserably slow to get around. THAT is a good way to do it. Sword lunge isn't and it actually takes away from the cannon launch mechanic. If rare just made some changes to the game such as faster swim speed, dive mechanic, etc. players wouldn't miss the sword lunge very much. Cannon launching also needs touch up though. I hate how it turns you into a bouncy ball that gets launched 100yards sideways if you hit something. The near completely lack of water friction is also a problem that is one of the primary reasons that sword lunging is too effective.

  • 100% disagree. Anything that lessens the time I spend running or swimming in this game is a good thing. I spend enough time doing that, already.

  • I totaly disagree beceause you have to know that it's realy a functionnality of the game, look when you shoot yourself with a canon in water the more speed you have the more you go far in water it's the same when you jump from high in water you continue your way pretty far and when you sword dash you dash pretty fast so when you do it to go in water it's just a way of playing it's very useful in many way pvp, or even just for going fast to our ship when being attacked so please stop complaining just beceause you are defeated by some guy beceause when you will be able to fight well you will be happy to have this feature of the game not being removed by some salty people beceause yes it's a feature of the game stop complaining it was on beta and always been here if it was a bug like you said it would have been removed from many times ago beceause The rare dev team is realy listening to us about bug so stop taking them for fool if they did not remove it it's beceause they can't just remove a feature of the game beceause of some haters

  • @marsmayflower said in Is it time to fix the sword-lunge physics exploit yet?:

    100% disagree. Anything that lessens the time I spend running or swimming in this game is a good thing. I spend enough time doing that, already.

    -Plays game called SEA of thieves that is played almost entirely on water and want's there to not be any swimming... wow

  • @sumtallgy the feature has been in the game since launch. The devs knew about it and choose to leave it in when the game went live as a feature. How it came into existence is irrelevant some of the best things come from side effects.

  • @predalien7809
    First, it 100% is a bug.
    Second, use the damn "." button on your keyboard.

  • nah, it's fun

  • Just Ño.

  • @sumtallgy Devs already said they are keeping this in the game a million years ago. So no. Watch for mermaids and boarders. Git Gud.

  • @sumtallgy said in Is it time to fix the sword-lunge physics exploit yet?:

    I for one am sick of getting boarded by ninja aqua men that just lung themselves from the beach after we made the effort to carefully creep up on them, using the sun and terrain to get the drop on a crew on land.

    Also to point out the obvious, but if you were ninja boarded as you "snuck up on someone" then you didnt sneak up on them and your approach was a failure. Generally when you sneak up on people you get the first hit, not ninja boarded and have your crew wiped.

  • @sumtallgy said in Is it time to fix the sword-lunge physics exploit yet?:

    I tried to get back into SoT on multiple occasions but the sword lunge torpedo bug just continues to ruin it for me.

    And yes, its a bug — that was left as a “feature” because people found it convenient. Unfortunately, the powers that be, erred on the side of ignoring the negative impact it made to the game.

    I for one am sick of getting boarded by ninja aqua men that just lung themselves from the beach after we made the effort to carefully creep up on them, using the sun and terrain to get the drop on a crew on land.

    And yes, I am salty about it. Yes I could learn to ‘git good’ and I am totally on board with doing that if the game would stick to its intended design rather than being forced to accept an obvious physics exploit.

    There are loading players into cannons, harpoons, rowboats, magic cannon balls — It’s a good time as any to fix it or introduce a new mechanic that helps a get a player where want go faster; in an intended way.

    At the end of the day, this will probably be a discarded post like the others — but I would like Rare to consider how this sinks the naval/pirate experience some of us are looking for.

    Coming from someone who rarely uses the sword, I like it. It gives people a benefit to using the sword. Without it, for now, the sword is useless.

  • I for 1 enjoy the unintended feature, but I do see where the OP is coming from - I myself have been in his very position in other video games: for example, I was against quick-scoping in Call of Duty, and against BxR quick reloads and teabagging in Halo - both unintended side effects that were never fixed, simply because the majority of the community liked it. Sadly, all of those are still here in other games today, in some form or another - animation cancelling, quick-smiping, and, ugh, I HATE teabagging.

    I like to think the gaming community is better than that, but am constantly reminded that the majority of the playerbase are prepubescent immature little 🤬.

    Sorry, got a bit off track there... 😅

    Anywho, I do think that the animation could be updated, in order to make it look even more official. For example, I always called it sword-surfing, so how cool or funny would it be to actually see your pirate surfing on his sword!? 😂

    It could be programmed only to use that animation near water or on the edge of a ship or dock, I'd imagine, so that way it won't look like pirates are surfing on the ground. 😋

    Regarding Rare's stance on the matter, I understand that they're acting on things on a case by case basis - like how they did with the aforementioned manuever, and even the dreaded double-gun exploit. However, I'm surprised that they're completely mum about other potentially unintended side effects of the mechanics that are still in the game. Effects such as:

    1. Quick digging
    2. Silent repairs

    Quick-digging allows you to dig up loot 2x faster (simply press your stow away button twice very quickly). Great, if you're in a hurry! This shouldn't be needed. It should be removed, and then the normal digging should be sped up to its level, IMO.

    The silent repair (simply hold block and then hold attack with a wooden plank near a hole in the ship's hull). If done correctly, you would only ever hear the 1st hammer fall, followed by complete silence. The animation is a bit weird too. It's not any faster or slower than normally repairing, but it's great if you know enemies might be nearby and that might take advantage of you doing said repairs. This is 1 that I personally think should become standard - all Rare would have to do is fix the animation, and balance it out by, oh I don't know... Slowing it down perhaps?

    Meanwhile, they're also silent on others that were great, but were completely removed or nerfed into the ground, not because they were bad, but simply as collateral damage from other changes. Effects such as:

    1. Quick-draw
    2. Running sword slash

    The former allowed you to counter attack by blocking with your sword and instantly aiming down sights with your firearm when you switched to it (block+weapon switch). Unlike the DGE, which is why this was unintentionally removed, it was balanced in that, because you only had 1 gun, you only got 1 shot.

    The latter is still technically in the game, but it's nowhere near as good as it once was before they added the speed boost to the sword's overall movement. It allowed you to more easily dance around your foes and get behind their block (block+move+tap attack). I find it ironic that the speed boost was supposed to help the sword, when all everyone had to do was learn this simple trick. Even now, 95% of pirates don't know about it, despite the fact that I still find it quite useful, even in its nerfed state. Instead they consistently complain about how much slower sword combat is - and they're not exactly wrong.

    It still baffles me that many pirates still don't know the utility of the sword dodge mechanic (block+move+jump). Many know of it and how to do it, but not that it allows you to jump through enemies - an incredibly valuable tactic. This is just another example of how little the overall community actually knows in regards to how deep the combat mechanics actually go or went in the past. Most still think it's mindless spam when they couldn't be any more wrong.

    In regards to the advanced sword charge, I'm quite surprised that they don't just make it the default sword charge, without having to require the block.

    I do question some of these side effects and whether they can be considered skill too. For example, some can be quite hard to pull off, but can it really be called PERSONAL skill if everybody can't reasonably do it? I'm not entirely certain that it could. The DGE is an excellent example of this. Pirates weren't skilled just because they could do it, because it took any sense of balance and counterplay, and made it walk the plank.

    Some of the changes made were good ones, of course - for example, I'm personally happy that you can no longer chain-combo off of the environment. That was certainly a weird abuse of the system, IMO. Others included massive hit-stun and cancelling the cool-down of the sword lunge. I'm also glad those are largely dealt with.

    This game is still very much a work-in-progress, and I sincerely hope that Rare can continue to do well overall and make their fans relatively happy, preferably in the near future rather than the distant future. 😊

  • I kind of like the sword lunge for it's "time-saving" travel benefits. But I can also see your point about removing it. Alternatively, Rare could make the ladders on ships retractable and then the sword-lunge would be more or less only good for travel?

  • @sumtallgy The sword lunge bug is awesome it adds so much life to the game and ways to attack i cant disagree more i LOVE this feature and its not going anywhere.
    What is your peoblem with it?
    Its fun just "pirates in real life dont do that" dont mean a thing its a GAME.

  • @waronpants2664 lol, this isnt COD or rainbow. Sea of thieves is an inherinetly silly game with stupid mechanics. if steam removed 1/2 the glitches in tf2 they game wouldve already been dead by now. not all glitches are malignant, and in the case of sea of thieves sword lunging is benefical.

  • @galactic-geek a dit dans Is it time to fix the sword-lunge physics exploit yet? :

    Anywho, I do think that the animation could be updated, in order to make it look even more official. For example, I always called it sword-surfing, so how cool or funny would it be to actually see your pirate surfing on his sword!? 😂

    I'm in.

  • @fllw3rb0y said in Is it time to fix the sword-lunge physics exploit yet?:

    @waronpants2664 lol, this isnt COD or rainbow. Sea of thieves is an inherinetly silly game with stupid mechanics. if steam removed 1/2 the glitches in tf2 they game wouldve already been dead by now. not all glitches are malignant, and in the case of sea of thieves sword lunging is benefical.

    Spupid mechanics that are designed to be sill are not the same as bugs. There is a reason why you use a cannon to launch yourself long distances instead of grabbing the helm and spamming attack(this is a nonsense combo that in this hypothetical situation would lead to you flying across the mapbecause of a BUG not a feature(and dear god don't reply to me the BS "sWorD LUnGe iS a FeATuRe NOw")). Sword lunge is functionally beneficial to the game , but it's at the cost of making the game look like an early access indy game with amateur devs that don't take their game seriously. The same general functionality could be given with an proper feature such as diving, grappling hook, faster swim speed, etc that would be universal and not depend on a weapon that shouldn't be a mobility tool. Weapons should be picked for combat, NOT because it gives you super powers.

  • @waronpants2664 my whole point mentioning other tripple a titles was to point out that NOBODY cares about rare looking like ametuers. its such a non-issue, there isnt a real competetive leauge, there are relatively few competeive events, the game isnt even complete yet lol. but personally i think it doesnt matter i have plenty of fun just messing around with my friends. the bug has become a part of the game, sure its not an intended feature but the game wouldnt be the same without it.

  • @fllw3rb0y The only game you compared it to was TF2 which isn't a AAA game? I know most people don't care. Most people can't even tell the difference between the most obvious bugs and actual features. I annoys the heck out of me that I need to switch to the sword just to reduced some of the tedium of travel. Part of the problem is that the mobility is on a weapon and part of the problem is that the tedium is there to begin with. Swimming specifically is just way to slow, traversal is way to underdeveloped. There are lots of times where the sword launch saves tons of time because you have to go around to an area where you can climb up, when if you could just climb up some of these small cliffs you would get to your destination much faster than using the sword to go around. There are many other circumstances where general mobility improvements would be far more helpful than the sword lunge, but hopefully you can imagine yourself.

  • @waronpants2664 Being able to mantle out of the water or over low ledges would be a nice animated touch and greatly improve mobility options. The programming needed is already there whenever you climb onto a rowboat too. It just needs to be applied to more surfaces without a prompt, and use the jump button when next to those surfaces.

  • @galactic-geek said in Is it time to fix the sword-lunge physics exploit yet?:

    @waronpants2664 Being able to mantle out of the water or over low ledges would be a nice animated touch and greatly improve mobility options. The programming needed is already there whenever you climb onto a rowboat too. It just needs to be applied to more surfaces without a prompt, and use the jump button when next to those surfaces.

    Mantle?
    I don't think the rowboat system would work. Idk exactly how it's designed, but from what I can tell it's not a physics interaction at all. When you hit the button, the game seems to pick your character up and set them on top of the rowboat.

  • @waronpants2664 Mantle is a term the Halo games used for basically vaulting, or jumping, over low objects. I simply adopted it from them, but after your reaction, I Googled it, and it doesn't appear to be an actual verb outside of that game series, so I'll probably stop using it. 😅

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