I've been playing this game for a while. I'm a Pirate Legend 10 and play regularly with one real life friend I have that is also a Pirate Legend. A pretty big problem this game has right now is with risk/reward depending if you mainly pvp or pve. Most people when they start playing this game are focusing or will focus a good deal of their time on pve - for the simple fact that they are working on becoming a pirate legend and need to build reputation with the guild by turning in treasure. Once you get to Pirate Legend doing this is optional and if fact usually counterproductive. Why get loot the hard way - going to islands, finding it, doing voyages etc - when you can just quickly supply up your ship - in 5 minutes or so - and take it from others. The problem now comes in - you end up with very experienced players, who have very little to lose in the way of how much time they spent vs what they have to lose. For example; you might have a 3 player brig trying to kill skeleton captions on a very large, high island (of course the captains are on the top of the island). So a lot of time is being spend finishing the mission. Inevitably towards the end of the mission a sloop will be seen coming around the island towards the brig. Even in the best case -if there was someone on the Brig who noticed the sloop in time and managed to get the ship underway - the defender is at a disadvantage. Experienced pirates with nothing to lose (except the 5 minutes of supplies they gathered) vs less experienced pirates with who knows how much loot (which also equals time spent in the game acquiring it) to lose. Almost always the defender in the situation is going to have a very bad day. Which is not very fun for them. I get it's a pirate game. I get the get gud advise im sure some will post. Let's face it though. It takes time to get gud. I don't think experienced pirates want a moderate amount of new pirates abandoning the game because they have been victim to this situation one too many times. I just think there has to be a punishment for someone attacking a ship with virtually nothing to loose when the defender has a lot to loose. It's not a good game mechanic in my opinion. I enjoy some of the Pve parts of the game but usually I just do what seems to be what is standard for other experienced player to do - start game, load ship, hunt noobs.......or anyone that seems like they have loot on them. It's no surprise we usually win (you have an advantage when attacking in the first place) - not always but usually. When we do experience a group of experience pirates who defeat us - no big deal, we had nothing to lose anyway. I'm not sure what the answer is. The issue is a have sailed with randos from time to time and many have quit the game because of this. Just wondering what everyone's opinion was on my topic. Is this really an issue? Can it be fixed? Will it be fixed? if so, what could be done to fix it?
For the Pve minded player there seems to be a risk/reward problem with this game
@BuckScrotom
Well.. my short answer is Git Gud.
And my slightly longer answer is, watch some YouTube videos. There's ways to counter griefer attacks and protect your loot. If you want to play Sea Of Friends, fine I guess, you do you. But I just don't get the logic of crytards coming into clearly a PvP game and complaining about the PvP... I mean Hello Kitty Island is equally easy to download man.
Watch some YouTube and learn the game mechanics, and defend yourself.
@buckscrotom
You are making some bold statements that as someone that is very well versed with PvE seems just untrue.
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You claim that making money through PvP is the easier route. This is blatantly false, when you PvP you have no clue what the reward will be, while if you PvE you are pretty guaranteed to know how much you will earn and if you are any good at it at a way faster pace than stealing.
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The attacker is in the advantage... what?? Only if the other crew is oblivious to the ship coming for them for multiple minutes..
Your argument is if a veteran meets a noob the veteran wins... yes! Yet if a veteran is the PvE player and the noob is a PvP one... they also win even though they are the defenders, there is a difference between crew's and their abilities.
You are making assumptions that one crew outmatched the other and lay claims that their initial action is to blame. I bet you that the ships you dont catch are better skilled players.
Just like PvP, PvE requires people to learn to play the game. The excuse of well I am doing voyages does not mean one doesn't need to learn to play.
Your main complaint: New players being wiped out by old players, because they PvP more... while we all used to PVE more, that indicates the lack of end-game content not a PvE versus PvP crew one. Why don't you PvE anymore, because it isn't challenging and fun?
Btw. If the crew is at a cloud event, those are meant to be contested by others and are designed for PvP. If the crew doing it isn't willing to fight and lose they shouldn't be doing it.
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While I disagree about punishing the attackers for attacking low level/empty ships, I do agree that there should be some risk. Like you said, the only thing someone can lose is their reputation progress. Once you are a legend (and especially lvl 10 athena), you have nothing to lose or gain. So at that point, you might as well just attack anyone you see.
What can be done about it though? Not sure. Either they change the way ships respawn (which might hurt the new players as well) or they encourage players to have loot onboard in the form of a ship buff or something.
I'm not really complaining. It was an observation. From my point of view. I do just fine in the game. I win some, I lose some.....overall I win more than I lose. The issue is that most experienced players don't really need loot (I certainly don't). The newer players do, so they go on voyages which take them to islands which make them extremely vulnerable to attacks from more experienced pirates (who are usually the ones logging on solely for PVP. So my point was just that there is a built in unbalance in the game. Most experience players will hunt less experienced players - the experienced players have nothing to lose and the ones on voyages have much to lose - if not in actual treasure then in time spent attempting to complete or do whatever they are doing.
@buckscrotom said in For the Pve minded player there seems to be a risk/reward problem with this game:
I'm not really complaining. It was an observation. From my point of view. I do just fine in the game. I win some, I lose some.....overall I win more than I lose. The issue is that most experienced players don't really need loot (I certainly don't). The newer players do, so they go on voyages which take them to islands which make them extremely vulnerable to attacks from more experienced pirates (who are usually the ones logging on solely for PVP. So my point was just that there is a built in unbalance in the game. Most experience players will hunt less experienced players - the experienced players have nothing to lose and the ones on voyages have much to lose - if not in actual treasure then in time spent attempting to complete or do whatever they are doing.
Again you are making assumptions... I am an experienced player and I don't want to lose anything. Not because I care about the gold, not because I care about the rep... I just don't like to lose! Yet by being a more veteran player I also just engage in battles while carrying around 20k worth of loot on board. To be honest experienced players are more likely to attack with loot on board than the new players.
Again you are making the argument of more experience is better... DUH! Yes the seas are filled by random crews, which means that there is a built in imbalance between crews based on how good they are, this doesn't mean that they are either PvE or PvP crews!
Additionally I have been attacked by new players while solo slooping, to be honest the rarity of meeting a crew that actually can keep up with me while I am sailing around is rare. Do not assume that the only ones PvPing are old veterans of the game or that the veterans only PvP?
The ones on the voyage if they just simply pay attention can decide how they want to respond to the sails approaching, they can risk nothing or everything! The choice of battle is pretty much always in the hands of the voyaging crew as they can simply flee!
How do you know if the more experienced pirates are only logging on for the PvP? If that is your conclusion doesn't that mean there is a problem with the end-game content, not that of the PvP or PvE crew? Why are they only logging on to PvP? Why aren't you doing PvE?
@buckscrotom
I agree with your Observation,
but there is no solution to this for a PvEvP sandbox like game.All mechanics that want to rule this would either miss the intention and limit all players or it would be exploitable or only shift the problem to another part of the game, for example safe zones.
Mostly all these mechanics trigger the "Killers" extra and make it more worse.
The best way to counter to many Killers is already implemented.
Horizontal progression and the possibility to see everybody coming minutes before they aproach (mostly).You can't do PvP content in this game without dealing with PvE threats - Megs, Skeleton ships, Krakens, Storms etc.
You also can't do PvE content in this game without dealing with PvP threats.
PvP is no more difficult in general than the PvE stuff. Some crews are complete potatoes, some are really good. Just like some PvE threats are easy to deal with and sometimes you'll get a meg, kraken and skeleton ship spawn on you when you're down to 3 planks.
The moral of the story is: "you can't win 'em all"
I LOVE to defend when someone attacks, they think that you're not aware of what's going on and a good pirate ALWAYS check the horizon.
Most of the ones that attacks me (in 1 of 10 cases) are strictly noobs who don't know how to properly play the game.
Defending, you stay on the island....see a boat approach, you ready up....lift the anchor (if its been dropped when you was at the island, which u shouldn't) and just aim and shoot. - You usually win.So yea, this might not be the game for you mate.
You can outrun a sloop on a brig, even solo, EXTREMELY easily. If you're paying attention to your surroundings on a brig and know how to sail, no ship will catch you. Even if you're just one man.
Punishment for attacking someone with no loot, you do realize this would be easily exploitable right? You know how easy this would be to use in order to grief people?
This is a PvEvP game. That means PvE is just as important as PvP. I think chasing a brig being unable to catch them is the biggest punishment because it wastes my time and aggravates me to no end. Ladder camping on Brigs is also straight cancer, and unless you get a deck shot, a player who knows the basics with sailing on a brig will never get caught.
I agree with the statement about attackers have 0 risk, never been attacked with a ship with loot worth more than 2-3k. Thats not seems fair tbh.
HaHa PiRaTe GaMe GeT GuT, yeah, brave enough risking nothing, whats the point of that statement? i can sail with nothing but supplys looking for easy cash. And if you are so solid at "IS A PIRATE GAME" , real pirates got death as a loss, here you just raspawn on nearest isle possible and can keep the chase 90% of the times.
Also what about serverhopers? it takes much less time find FOTD active server by hoping that actually collecting the lights needed to activate it. That leads to the point that i find FOTD active forts with literally 4 not even hiden sloops sitting near and noone actually doing it, i saw that many times. You should judge if a problem is a real problem by imagining almost everyone doing that.
I love this game, with all the involving PVP, the loot i lost, the shoots i took in the face on raspawn, the PVE events, TT.... I also like it alive, with people to play with and vs, pirates and not black dressed ninjas sitting on a bush or underwater. Risk vs Risk, not risk vs "LuL U NOOB I GOOD hahá sub to my ttv".
TLDR: some risk at empty boats attacking and loosing, at least spawning on the farest isle of the map from the encounter.
I think a simple bounty system would help with the risk part and adding commendations for doing PVP related things without sinking or doing it in one session would give attacker a few things to worry about and look for.
For the pvp part I think that defendant always has advantage especially when the attacker comes to you when you are parked. You can easily turn your cannons towards them instead of running and dumpster them. I always do that if I ever get attacked, and at least kill 1 person on the deck. They get panicked and I easily board them. With the new chainshot and blunderbombs it’s even more rewarding.
I mean, without going into details, I think most people with risk/reward complaints should pay attention to the update Rare has announced for this month.
Clearly, the Devs have already considered some elements of the OP's concerns and it looks like they have in fact developed potential solutions.
The main point I disagree with is PvP pirates not carrying loot. I always carry loot into PvP, what's the point in fighting if I don't get the adrenaline rush of having something worth fighting for?
Those lootless ships that go around causing trouble? They're never much of a challenge, all half baked tactics, terrible aim with cannons and players who are so new to PvP they don't carry any loot in case they lose it. They're only little fish, testing the waters.
Running into one of the old salts who've been around since Day 1? Those pirates stack ships with plunder just to make things interesting, then they give you the fight of your life when you try to take it.
The only difference is, most of us who've been around a while are only interested in challenging fights, so we tend not to attack first unless it looks like it'll be a decent scrap.
You can literally see ships from a couple islands away... how did they get to your ship undetected?
If you want to be friendly with another crew, awesome. Keep your boat away from theirs, and send someone to go talk. You can run off if they get any ideas.
The disadvantage is null. Mermaids might suck, but they do put you on the boat in reasonable time. The loot will still be on the island when you come back.
This game has a great story. It's done an awesome job giving us an immersive environment to play in. However, these are PvP servers. There is no timer and anyone can ruin your day. This is the intent of the game.
My honest advice isn't get gud. It's keep your eyes up. Yeah it sucks to stop a mission... If you act fast you can react. Grab a keg or try and board.
I know not every player is gonna know what to do. That point can be made in any game though. (Did you know if you have a weapon in borderlands that increases it's explosive damage. It will increase all explosive damage you deal, even from other sources, while it's out?) Experience takes time. Help your crew grow.
-"Sloop against the wind."
@buckscrotom There was originally going to be a Death Tax implemented, however players felt that they would never have any gold. It's honestly a bit of a shame it never made it into the game. Would provide at least some loss in the situation. Because I'm one of those Legends that roams around with a ship with no supplies hunting other ships and stealing their supplies and treasure. Death Tax would be great. Would keep me invested actually accumulating gold.
The answer is super simple. When a ship sinks move it to another server. All the servers are synced. So the transition would go unnoticed by the crew.
This would make sinking aggressive crews a viable solution since you would be rid of them. At the moment 90% of the ships that I sink just keep coming back within 5 minutes. This makes doing something like a Tall Tale impossible.
Even better, move the sunken aggressive crews to a server with other aggressive crews. They can fight it out there with like-minded crews. You are rid of them. Everybody wins!
Another plus: this mechanic would make getting sunk a far more serious consequence than it is now.
Well, skeletons and sea creatures are not really much of a threat to your progress, it's really in the other players scouting about and the uncertainty of their intentions. Without pvp focused crews this game wouldn't have the same excitement. There isn't really anything that can be done to "remedy" the situation of risk / reward because it's pretty fair and randomized as it is. I also think that getting to legend or completing all of your tall tales is not achievable by just sinking other ships because you don't know what they have got and sinking and killing doesn't further you in tall tales at all. Basically, the risk / reward is random and fair as is. There is no problem here. The only "solution" would be pve servers and that takes the "pirating" out of the pirate game.
Also, we have been around since before day 1 and we attack everything all of the time, we don't usually carry a glittering hoard on-board just to make things interesting either. We make an alliance with other players maybe once in a million encounters and more often than not, that goes to hell in a hand basket because one of us can't maintain peace. We find that endearing and funny.
We are not impervious to defeat either. We get attacked all of the time and it doesn't bother us. If we didn't get attacked regardless of what we are doing at the time, it would be too safe!
Actually, going head to head with another ship while carrying loot is a bit too honest and honourable for our tastes... We like vanity ships that are anchored at an island, with a crew that's not paying attention, with a glow coming off the top deck that can be seen from space. First order of the day is to send our designated boarder and close quarter combat specialist over to keep the crew busy as we hammer cannonball's into its hull from the stern, or the bow but never in the jaws of their cannons on port side or starboard. Secondly, we take the masts out so they can't turn and give us a fair fight or worse, escape. Thirdly, after we take the masts with a healthy hail of chain shots we then carpet their ship in fire. Lastly, and this usually does it, we get em with a curse ball. Then it's just a case of picking off the stragglers in the water and waiting for the loot to surface if there is any loot at all.
If we get a fair fight, we usually try to make it unfair by using islands and other obstacles to our advantage. We also hate it when we have to break a sweat. Better to go into Arena for a fair fight, the sea of thieves is full of opportunities to ply strategy and tactics and winning formulas usually have to be switched up in order to keep rivals on their toes!
We are all PL ATH 10 without any real fear of losing certain treasures if we are defeated. We have all been around since beta and we all still play the game the way we always have. Dirty yet successful. Hahaha.
SoT has never had much in the way of consequences. Lose your ship, get a new one free. Shark ate you. You'll be back on your ship in 30 seconds. Fall overboard, mermaid is on it's way.
The only real consequence is losing treasure. But experienced PL's have little need for treasure. Plus they are hard to catch. Noobs are easy to catch. But few of them hoard treasure since they learn pretty quickly to cash it in ASAP.
Let's be honest. Chasing and sinking Noobs may be more fun than beach-combing. But the second is a better "get rich quick" scheme.
It seems that your problem is based in the very core of SoT. I don't know what the solution is. But it sounds like it would require some serious changes by Rare to the core game concept?
@chris-enigma Yes! You sound like exactly the sort of ship I like to fight.
If I lose I'll learn something, if I win I'll feel like I earned it.
To be clear, I don't carry loot to give anyone who defeats me a prize. I carry loot because having something on the line gives me a rush, it's purely selfish, loot doesn't really matter anyway, it's just a means to an end.
I don't dunk on anchored ships because they're never gonna be as fun as fighting a crew like yours is. I tend to solo a fair bit too, so fair fights aren't really ever a thing.
Then again, is any fight ever really fair?
Well, when we do end up in a head to head fight, I consider all to be fair until one of us gets the upper hand and then it becomes, very quickly, unfair. Lol.
We have very little need for loot now as it stands, we are all pretty flamboyant in how we dress and the weapons and clothing we have equipped are all what we have stuck with for a long, long time. BUT, I like cashing in loot and watching the gold and doubloons rack up into the stratosphere so I still care about loot lol.
@buckscrotom well, in a game where it's only cosmetics, most people will just do what they want, and it's mostly not doing voyages and not gathering loot in a pve way.
so that will always end up doing pvp, no matter if there is loot or not.
just always get a rowboat to go away with the loot before they come if you know you don't stand a chance, if you are on a big island, stash the loot somewhere if it's faster than taking it to the rowboat. (some small island have very good places to stash loot, big plants in general, skulls can be hard to stash because ez to spot, so put them somewhere else)
also, reaching a fort with a rowboat instead of your ship reduces chances to have ennemies coming in the middle of your fort
