Tall Tales should not have fail states.

  • WilboBaggns
    Master
    Insider

    I get it. Fear of failure and the tension that arises with this are core parts of SoT.

    But.

    Recently I decided to finally get around to doing the second half of the Tall Tales. I am up to the Trickster and the first attempt was a dead end as a bug meant I was given clue page for the wrong island, making it impossible to proceed with.

    The second attempt? I was blown up with the key. Okay. That's fine. But then an automatic Tall Tale fail? I have to start all over again?

    If this MUST be the case, I should have some option to skip the stuff I've now done twice. What does it add to the experience by having to do the same, unchanged, steps in this quest?

    EDIT: Because this seems I wasn't clear enough... the bug happened like this - go to Plunder Valley and start the Tall Tale. Given the map, do all the stuff to get the spyglass and notes. Okay. The notes specify Plunder Valley (island I'm on) and am given a first map and clue. I complete that no worries. Second notes then use the SAME MAP of Plunder Valley, with a clue that only works on Discovery Ridge. Quest logic error - it seemed like it pulled a clue from the wrong set, not that I hadn't paid attention to which island I was on.

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  • mferr11
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @wilbobaggns said in Tall Tales should not have fail states.:

    bug meant I was given clue page for the wrong island, making it impossible to proceed with.

    Can you describe the bug? What do you mean wrong island?

  • WeakDexx
    Commander
    Insider

    @wilbobaggns

    With that mention of skip. I finished the TT once can i now skip to the end and finish it the five times?
    Not so much a fan of that idea.

    a TT needs a failure option. This is to the core of SoT.
    Stuff can get stolen. If your totem gets stolen u can not complete the quest thus failure. Restart or retake are your options.

    I do see u mention failure not because of someone else. So thats a lil diffrent

  • Arch iDeall
    Marauder

    @wilbobaggns Few days ago I suggested that there should be a magical box that spawns lost Tall Tale items:

    https://www.seaofthieves.com/forum/topic/109196/the-box-of-stories/

    Being able to respawn the Trickster barrel would save a lot of needless frustration.

  • WilboBaggns
    Master
    Insider

    @mferr11 the map I was given and the clue did not match up. I spent over an hour trying, only to look it up and find the clue was for a different island. So, there I was on Plunder Valley pulling my hair out and going crazy, only to find that yes... no such solution existed for the island I was on. And, because the map I was given was for Discovery Ridge, the only way I could solve it would be to go to DR, find each spot to stand on, find the spot and hope that the game triggered the item to be dug up.

  • Little Squash
    Commander
    Insider

    @wilbobaggns
    That's not a bug. There are a few different islands you can get clues for. That's part of the puzzle....figuring out which island you need to go to.

  • Sweltering Nick
    Castaway

    @wilbobaggns You're supposed to figure out what island to go to, bro... Part of the puzzle. xD

  • CotU42
    Lord
    Insider

    @wilbobaggns

    You can skip all chapters you have completed. Those are your check points.

    Going to the wrong island because you didn't bother to read the book, is your failure that would be easily resolved by going to the other island.

    Getting the key blown up, is a fail and loss condition. The whole point of it being a barrel is make it that you are to protect it from harm. You failed to do so and therefoe you were reset to the start.

    Why should a tale be risk free? Games are about winning and losing, if you cannot lose than what is the point. Since when have games evolved into something that should have 0 lose conditions and is demanded by gamers.

  • Minhoca SoT
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    Being rewarded for failing is not a good idea. Failed? Do it from the beginning.

    This new generation of gamers... I bet they wouldn't play a Battletoads or a Contra for more than 10 minutes.

  • WilboBaggns
    Master
    Insider

    @cotu42 ah, let me clarify:

    The book pointed to Plunder Valley. In fact, the first clue was also for that island. And it worked fine. The second clue was seemingly pulled from the clue pool for Discovery Ridge. Therefore, while the map I was given was for Plunder Valley, the clue was for Discovery Ridge.

    This was not an error on my part, but a glitch in the quest logic.

  • WilboBaggns
    Master
    Insider

    @targasbr my dude, I had Battletoads on my Sega Mega Drive. And yes, it was brutal.

    The difference being that investing an hour in Battletoads meant you had several check points. Investing an hour in a Tall Tale and one thing goes wrong... all the way back to the beginning.

    The further problem here is not having to redo. After all, if I redid a Battletoads level, at least I can get better at it - faster, do a cleaner run etc. In a Tall Tale all I'm doing is repeating the same thing over again: Talk to this NPC, move the skeletons this way (the same exact way) and I've already lost about time that has added nothing to the experience.

  • WilboBaggns
    Master
    Insider

    @sweltering-nick as explained in another post - I was on the correct island. The clue given for the first step was correct for Plunder Valley. The second changed island, but kept the same map. Quest logic error, not human.

  • Minhoca SoT
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    @wilbobaggns said in Tall Tales should not have fail states.:

    @targasbr my dude, I had Battletoads on my Sega Mega Drive. And yes, it was brutal.

    Battletoads on Mega Drive was like a walk in the park compared to the hell of Battletoads from NES

    The difference being that investing an hour in Battletoads meant you had several check points. Investing an hour in a Tall Tale and one thing goes wrong... all the way back to the beginning.

    Battletoads had no checkpoints

    The further problem here is not having to redo. After all, if I redid a Battletoads level, at least I can get better at it - faster, do a cleaner run etc. In a Tall Tale all I'm doing is repeating the same thing over again: Talk to this NPC, move the skeletons this way (the same exact way) and I've already lost about time that has added nothing to the experience.

    In Battletoads you always did the same thing too: you walked, jumped, punched enemies.

  • WilboBaggns
    Master
    Insider

    @targasbr

    NES vs Mega Drive: K 🤷🏽‍♂️

    Checkpoints: Battletoads most certainly did have checkpoints. You may be thinking of something else, here.

    Doing the same thing: What you described includes a high degree of variability within that. Pressing the same button to interact with the same NPC, getting the same dialogue and then repeating the exact same interactions (move hands on skeletons, pick up objects) do not include variability.

  • CotU42
    Lord
    Insider

    @wilbobaggns there is no way for me to judge whether it was a glitch or a human interpretation error.

    If you figured out that it was the island next to the one you were at it would have been an easy task to check.

    The standpoint does not change, if you lose you are to start over. I disagree with your notion that the game should not have fail states, it is a game.

  • ScallywagMango
    Commander
    Insider
    Founder

    TT 6 is probably the least forgiving tale. When I was playing through with my friend, I had him take the barrel since I was at high ping. I didn't want that barrel going off bc of me! It's frustrating but try sailing with a buddy. TTs are more fun with a friend!

  • Minhoca SoT
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    @WilboBaggns

    We will not get anywhere with this discussion. Just understand that you are punished for failing, and that is not going to change.

  • Sweltering Nick
    Castaway

    @wilbobaggns said in Tall Tales should not have fail states.:

    @sweltering-nick as explained in another post - I was on the correct island. The clue given for the first step was correct for Plunder Valley. The second changed island, but kept the same map. Quest logic error, not human.

    Forgive me if i persist with my doubts, but... I think you simply failed to locate the correct area on the island in question, and incorrectly assumed it was on another island. :S

  • Sweltering Nick
    Castaway

    @targasbr There's a bunch of community-funded projects going on right now where they create miniature versions of old-school consoles.

    I own a Mini NES, Mini SNES, Mini Commodore 64, Sega Mega Drive Flashback (With fully functional cartridge slot), and Mini Playstation.

    If you loved the old games, i'd suggest you buy them if you see them in electronic or gaming shops, 100% worth the money, they come with a bunch of games and whenever they release software updates they add more games. :D

    This is off topic though, and yeah, games should punish you for failure... That's what games do, reward success, punish failure... You fail? Try again, that's what games are. : /

  • Minhoca SoT
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    @sweltering-nick said in Tall Tales should not have fail states.:

    @targasbr There's a bunch of community-funded projects going on right now where they create miniature versions of old-school consoles.

    I own a Mini NES, Mini SNES, Mini Commodore 64, Sega Mega Drive Flashback (With fully functional cartridge slot), and Mini Playstation.

    If you loved the old games, i'd suggest you buy them if you see them in electronic or gaming shops, 100% worth the money, they come with a bunch of games and whenever they release software updates they add more games. :D

    This is off topic though, and yeah, games should punish you for failure... That's what games do, reward success, punish failure... You fail? Try again, that's what games are. : /

    You have an AWESOME Collection! Congrats mate! I unfortunately never played a Commodore, maybe one day. I still have my NES, Atari and SNES and I regret having sold my N64 and Playstation (one fat)... I think it will be my next purchases.

  • D3ADST1CK
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    I completed the Trickster 4 times solo and didn't run into any glitches with the map during the key retrieval section. This must be really rare.

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