Stream-sniping

@mr-dragon-raaar said:

On another note, stream sniping should never be a bannable offence anyway.

Lol I'm a free-market guy. If Rare wants to ban stream-snipers, so be it. If Rare wants to ban Conor McGregor fans, so be it.

My concern is that without the necessary qualifying information, literally anyone could be deemed a stream-sniper. I'm hoping I'm wrong.

The whole "Stream Sniping" is very confusing subject.
For starters...to even begin such a feat, one would have to spend time to find the correct lobby with said streamer and sail the direction they are in.
Second, Time. The amount of servers one would have to go through to find the correct one is large and consuming.

Who would have the time? and why is it such a big deal?
Confusing...If you are going to stream I say let it happen. Like driving a car, you are going to either crash into something or drive safe.

@burnbacon said:

one would have to spend time to find the correct lobby with said streamer and sail the direction they are in... The amount of servers one would have to go through to find the correct one is large and [time] consuming.

True. I was so fixed on how Rare might verify that a player was stream-sniping, that I hadn't even considered the hurdles a player would need to jump to even succeed in getting in a streamer's server.

@mr-dragon-raaar said in Stream-sniping:

@theblackbellamy
That would be nice but I guarantee Rare will never discuss this.
The whines from a elitist streamer is all the evidence they need apparently.

On another note, stream sniping should never be a bannable offence anyway.

I mean if it enters into harassment then it should other wise no

@luciansanchez82 I feel like cheating insofar as hacking/modding/exploiting/etc would be much easier for them to assess on their end. Anything that involves internet traffic to/from their servers should be easier for them to assess on their end.

Now, perhaps all stream-snipers behave similarly enough that Rare has sufficient data logged on their end to suspect when a player is stream-sniping.

However, this does not rule out a circumstantial possibility. In order to confirm that a player is stream-sniping, Rare would really need to have access to data that would confirm a player is on twitch. Without this, they would issuing bans based on suspicions rather than validations.

If people don't want to be accused of stream-sniping, there's a fairly simple solution, don't have streams open while you play.

You'd be surprised (or maybe not) the number of times I've been watching a stream and see a name from another crew appear in the viewer list not long after. Worse still are the ones who actually chat shortly afterwards and gloat about a "win".

I'm sure since Rare introduced linking your accounts for some promotions, it's even easier for them to track all these things.

Ever since the outrage stirred up by a streamer using certain privileges to report other players for Stream Sniping directly, I have been concerned about this even though I do not actively watch streams outside of the Weekly Developer Streams or giveaways.

A few weeks ago my crew ran into Summit. We had been on the server for well over an hour and had finished turning in a good haul when a sloop rolled upon us. During the altercation, one of my crew recognized the name and started squealing like a little school girl and expressing his love over voice chat in the game. Neither the wife nor I knew what his Gamertag was (we figured it would be Summit, but guess not) or what his pirate even looked like, so my wife asked him on the ferry while they were both there but he didn't respond. We sunk his ship, and it seemed he quit the server and that was that.

I checked out his channel the next day to see if it was truly him, and after some digging, I found our encounter! He was on the server for less than 10 minutes before he came upon us, but his channel chat was screaming "Stream Snipers!" towards us and saying we were cheating. Seriously? He just got to the server and found us, how could anyone possibly Stream Snipe like that, especially with Streamer Mode, enabled to mask names? I am not sure if Summit believed this to be the case, and nothing came our way from it, but it is still concerning how easily people jump on that bandwagon...

@realstyli said:

don't have streams open while you play... Worse still are the ones who actually chat shortly afterwards and gloat about a "win" ...since Rare introduced linking your accounts for some promotions, it's even easier for them to track all these things.

I understand why Rare might deem that as sufficient basis for issuing a ban. People giving themselves away using their linked-twitch accounts in chat rooms may be the only way Rare can support accusations of stream-sniping. Even though this is still circumstantial without confirmation of an accused player's internet traffic by either twitch (the company) or your ISP, it's better than relying merely on word-of-mouth accusations, which is what some people have suggested is being done.

In any case, I didn't post this thread for us to speculate lol. I genuinely did want some clarification from a Rare employee.

@theblackbellamy

I highly doubt you'll get any clarification from Rare. I would be surprised if commenting on any discussions about it doesn't go against company policy.

@archangel-timmy

I checked out his channel the next day to see if it was truly him, and after some digging, I found our encounter! He was on the server for less than 10 minutes before he came upon us, but his channel chat was screaming "Stream Snipers!" towards us and saying we were cheating. Seriously?

I can echo this, but the common issue I see is that Chat is usual filled with know nothing idiots. One of my streamer encounters was against Pace over a FOTD. We recognized him, said hi, yada yada. We fight 2 separate skirmishes, unfortunately we sank both times. The first sink we got Krakened mid Fight, the second we had a Ballastball Skalleon spawn on us. Not complaining, but I still had fun. Pace never accused us of stream sniping, but my god his chat was annoying when watching the vod over. When I say they are full of idiots, I mean it, they don't grasp the game mechanics at all. Their was many a times that we had guns on Pace as soon as he was curbing over ladder on his boarding attempts. This wasn't due to sniping, but visually seeing him shoot over and hearing his cannon shot as well. Those dummies in chat don't grasp that if you hear a cannon-shot but don't see a ball its a player. When you play the game long enough you notice those boarding attempts instantly.

It doesn't help that chat can feed into some streamers ego and reinforce their belief that someone is stream sniping them. I am happy to report that Pace didn't listen and this was a nice pleasant experience. Also he had streamer mode enabled.

@captain-taben said in Stream-sniping:

Just opt out mate you'll never have to see him again.
The gift that keeps on giving.

Opt-out of what, playing the game?

Stream sniping shouldn't be bannable.

You can turn on streaming mode that hides your info.

How many times would you have to hop to find a particular streamer?

This is protection that isn't needed.

@pithyrumble said in Stream-sniping:

Stream sniping shouldn't be bannable.

It's a form of cheating, so surely you'd agree it should be? It would be like someone in your server having full vision of the server, including inside ships, and being able to monitor your every move no matter where you are on the map. You think there's nothing wrong with that?

The scrambled names only help to prevent the server hopping stream snipers.

However, if the person is already in the server and recognises the name, they can easily stream snipe and immediately have an unfair advantage. This is what happens with most of the stream sniping now, so the scrambled names don't help.

@withmyapologies
No, it's not cheating. You set yourself up with added difficulty by broadcasting your whereabouts.

Would you say solo slooping is cheating too, since we also set ourselves up to additional difficulty?

Streamers put a big target on their backs. They shouldn't whine when someone wants to challenge them.

@pithyrumble said in Stream-sniping:

@withmyapologies
No, it's not cheating. You set yourself up with added difficulty by broadcasting your whereabouts.

Would you say solo slooping is cheating too, since we also set ourselves up to additional difficulty?

Level of difficulty has nothing to do with cheating. You didn't answer my question.

Would you be happy that someone in your server could see every move you make no matter where you are on the map? Whether you're on your ship, on an island, or where your loot is stored? And then using that information, could repeatedly come to attack you?

The definition of cheating is: act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage.

The stream sniper has an unfair advantage that no-one else in the server does nor does their opponent, therefore, they are cheating.

@mr-dragon-raaar said in Stream-sniping:

@withmyapologies
In my opinion if you are going to broadcast your location you deserve everything you get.
No sympathy whatsoever for the streamers.

Some of them are doing their full or part-time job. They are all gamers, just like us, but they are living the dream. Getting paid to play games.

They don't deserve to have their game ruined anymore than the rest of us.

@withmyapologies

I did tho.

I chose to give EVERYONE on my server access to my information by streaming. Someone took advantage and used the tools available to everyone.

If I'm openly broadcasting my location LIVE? I have no business complaining. It'd be like me putting up a Reaper's Mark and complaining that a combat crew came and sank me.

It's not cheating if you give someone an advantage.

Ever work customer service?
Someone has a bad day and takes it out on you? Part of the job. Getting attention and getting attacked because you're a well known streamer?

Part of the job.

@mr-dragon-raaar

@withmyapologies

In my opinion if you are going to broadcast your location you deserve everything you get.

No sympathy whatsoever for the streamers.

This is something I don't get, just because someone is famous or well known, why does it excuse this behavior that would be considered stalking in every other instance? Lets look at a non-SoT example. Hollywood Celebrities getting stalked. These celebrities put themselves out their for the world to see, but does that excuse some paparazi sneaking into your wife's hospital room to sneak a picture of your new baby? Or, should some people respect boundaries regardless of fame? Any normal person wouldn't want this treatment, why is it suddenly ok due to fame? When shroud streamed PUBG, he would get serial snipers to the point where he would know the snipers by name. In any other context someone going everywhere you go in order to see you and interact with you uninvited would usually involve the cops. Just because its in a game, shouldn't change how wrong this behavior is considered.

I get what you are saying, with broadcasting yourself comes risks, but that doesn't mean the invasive behavior of some people is suddenly justified. This is like a person who goes jogging at night, on one hand their is dangers that come with the hobby, but on the other doesn't mean its suddenly ok to attack joggers at night. Reeling this back to Streaming, just because streaming comes with risks, doesn't mean its a green light for people to engage in behavior that crosses into stalking territory.

@guepard4 said in Stream-sniping:

@realstyli dijo en Stream-sniping:

If people don't want to be accused of stream-sniping, there's a fairly simple solution, don't have streams open while you play.

You'd be surprised (or maybe not) the number of times I've been watching a stream and see a name from another crew appear in the viewer list not long after. Worse still are the ones who actually chat shortly afterwards and gloat about a "win".

I'm sure since Rare introduced linking your accounts for some promotions, it's even easier for them to track all these things.

Lol.

Stream snipers join random crews that appear in the stream.

They just have to see in the logs if you tried to join a lot of people that werent your friends before and were in the same server until someone accepted.

You dont need a super secrer plot making people to link twitch/mixer accounts.

1. I love how people who haven't thought about their reply fully start with "LOL"
2. I said it was "even easier", I didn't say it was the only tool they use, how could it be, but it is useful in situations where the in-game gamertag is not the same as the one that might appear in chat afterwards (as an example). It's not the only reason for the linking of accounts but I'd be very surprised if they don't use the tools at their disposal.
3. The scenario you paint is only one of many ways stream snipers can appear in the same game as a streamer and it's the one that is far, far less effective now with the introduction of Streamer Mode that allows them to hide other crews' gamertags.

@theblackbellamy I doubt they will say because it would encourage workarounds.

My guess is that it isn't easy to get banned for sniping. It requires repeat offenses - this means multiple reports (with video evidence) of the same individual.

@burnbacon said in Stream-sniping:

The whole "Stream Sniping" is very confusing subject.
For starters...to even begin such a feat, one would have to spend time to find the correct lobby with said streamer and sail the direction they are in.
Second, Time. The amount of servers one would have to go through to find the correct one is large and consuming.

Who would have the time? and why is it such a big deal?
Confusing...If you are going to stream I say let it happen. Like driving a car, you are going to either crash into something or drive safe.

No.

@pithyrumble said in Stream-sniping:

@withmyapologies
No, it's not cheating. You set yourself up with added difficulty by broadcasting your whereabouts.

Would you say solo slooping is cheating too, since we also set ourselves up to additional difficulty?

Streamers put a big target on their backs. They shouldn't whine when someone wants to challenge them.

Using third party software to gain an advantage over another player in the game is, by definition, cheating. And, it is absurd to argue that the intent of streaming is to provide other players with an advantage.

@theblackbellamy said in Stream-sniping:

@burnbacon said:

one would have to spend time to find the correct lobby with said streamer and sail the direction they are in... The amount of servers one would have to go through to find the correct one is large and [time] consuming.

True. I was so fixed on how Rare might verify that a player was stream-sniping, that I hadn't even considered the hurdles a player would need to jump to even succeed in getting in a streamer's server.

The name change settings have helped, because it used to be done by joining other player's ships. Now, with all of the light pollution in the sky, it's easier to identify when you're likely on the same server as a streamer.

@mr-dragon-raaar said in Stream-sniping:

@withmyapologies
In my opinion if you are going to broadcast your location you deserve everything you get.
No sympathy whatsoever for the streamers.

Again. No. Streaming is not an invitation for players to cheat.

Example, just because you're in a public place and someone was broadcasting their location doesn't mean you can go consistently bother them and insert yourself into their stream. The police still view that as harassment. That's the position Rare has taken and it's a good one.

Twitch, also, has a no stream sniping policy and considers it harassment and cheating. I'm not sure what Mixer's stance is yet.

Okay got it. I'm going to stream and if anyone approaches me you're stream sniping.

It's essentially what y'all are saying.

Where's all the people saying "it's a pirate game" now?

@pithyrumble

Okay got it. I'm going to stream and if anyone approaches me you're stream sniping.

It's essentially what y'all are saying.

Where's all the people saying "it's a pirate game" now?

I can simultaneously criticize the act of Stream Sniping, while also criticize streamers crying wolf in-cases that aren't Stream sniping. These aren't mutually exclusive. I think the end goal here should be Rare needs to follow proper due process before kicks or bans happen, rather than follow the word of a streamer that may or may not be salty with a conflict of interest.

@theblackbellamy
Oh this is an easy one and something I've experienced personally.

If you rob a streamer while he's streaming, you're a stream sniper, plain and simple. The larger the streamer the larger the ego and thus the larger the problem is. Now, especially expect accusations if you go into their stream after you dumpster them to gloat like my crew did. Be prepared for a lot of crying cause that will happen too.