Mouse v Controller

As an Xbox player I am enbarressed about how we are represented here. Optimize your button layout, practice PVP and suddenly you won’t care.

I know PC turn speeds and inexperienced accuracy is higher, but an experienced player on Xbox doesn’t have an issue. So please if you haven’t at least thought about your button layout, stop using your Xbox as an excuse for being terrible.

@squaz05 said in Mouse v Controller:

@kashaarafall said in Mouse v Controller:

@pomalotacusmk3 Is there now? Care to provide evidence of the claim of plenty of PC players? If they shut off the crossplay, then you pretty much cut off people's abilities to find people to play with at an ease. Also, the Shadowrun example was an example of what happens when you pit console vs PC. PC will win everytime due to better performance, better control and an overall better experience from a sound/visual quality. It's the reason it is called the masterace.

however publishers have been pressuring devs to develop the game to the lowest common denominator. So PCs got console quality games... look at the mess arkham knight was.

That had nothing to do with a "lowest common denominator", it was a mess because it wasn't tested well to cut corners.

@h4iry-0range said in Mouse v Controller:

@squaz05 said in Mouse v Controller:

@knifelife said in Mouse v Controller:

@squaz05 In response to your question, i personally would want controller only servers lol, its something Microsoft will be giving the option for.

The way i see it if i wanted to use a mouse and keyboard i would have bought a PC,

so you want

PC only server
Crossplay servers
Xbox Open servers
Xbox controller only servers

(Should we start adding Xbox 1 X servers only? or PC i7 GTX 1000 series and higher and PC i5 GTX900 series an lower servers? what about PC with controllers only servers? cuz you know... we gotta keep it fair...)

damn.... man... way to split the community

i could be done like this

• pc players on the crossplatform server Cuz a pc player is not whining and they will play against everyone.

• XBOX server for the people on xbox who want more balanced gameplay

keeping in mind that even is there is xbox kb/m support they can still play in the xbox server cuz there is no way to seperate this, and wait for it there will not be allot of xbox players using kb/m usually an gamer with a console is sitting on his couch in the livingroom most horrible position for kb/m

What? How about matchmaking for controller only games... and disable kb/m for the game while on that server...

If you can have server types then you can have server types that actually separate the problematic components.

@squaz05 said in Mouse v Controller:

@savagetwinky said in Mouse v Controller:

@h4iry-0range said in Mouse v Controller:

@squaz05 said in Mouse v Controller:

@knifelife said in Mouse v Controller:

@squaz05 In response to your question, i personally would want controller only servers lol, its something Microsoft will be giving the option for.

The way i see it if i wanted to use a mouse and keyboard i would have bought a PC,

so you want

PC only server
Crossplay servers
Xbox Open servers
Xbox controller only servers

(Should we start adding Xbox 1 X servers only? or PC i7 GTX 1000 series and higher and PC i5 GTX900 series an lower servers? what about PC with controllers only servers? cuz you know... we gotta keep it fair...)

damn.... man... way to split the community

i could be done like this

• pc players on the crossplatform server Cuz a pc player is not whining and they will play against everyone.

• XBOX server for the people on xbox who want more balanced gameplay

keeping in mind that even is there is xbox kb/m support they can still play in the xbox server cuz there is no way to seperate this, and wait for it there will not be allot of xbox players using kb/m usually an gamer with a console is sitting on his couch in the livingroom most horrible position for kb/m

What? How about matchmaking for controller only games... and disable kb/m for the game while on that server...

If you can have server types then you can have server types that actually separate the problematic components.

there is 2 issues in the bolded statement.
1- Separate = split. Rare doesn't want to SPLIT or SEPARATE the community
2- you are making allusion that having a K/M is a problematic component... nope it's not problematic to me, I don't see it as a problem to use K/M...

basically we need to learn to co-exist, lets find solutions that
A) don't involve separating the community into a multitude of servers
B) don't make PC players as "the problem" (you know I can make the Xbox players the problem as them not having the proper equipment to compete with us... see that can go both ways.)

remember we are on the same team, we are gamers, lets work together and not against eachother.

To point 1:

This is a dumb argument, there are like 6 people per server, match making by your definition is already splitting the game community..

Where they shouldn't split the community is down different game mechanics, there should only be one game so the community shares in that single experience. Thats what it means to have a cohesive community... not no options for matchmaking... Match making already attempts to find local servers first for a better experience... there are already points of separation in the community for match making.

There is only 2 solutions, either gimp the control scheme or allow controller users to opt out of k/m match making.

To point 2:

I'm not suggesting that KB/M is a problematic... but mixing the two creates a problem. Its problematic for those using a less precise control scheme. It gives k/m users an advantage in certain cases... and those cases aren't not that rare and can take two teams of equally skilled opponents and the kb/m people might win 9/10 fights. We'd need to know exactly how big of an effect it is... but your appraoch will just alienate controller users until their gone.

You know what separates a community? People quitting and never coming back because they constantly feel like they are at a disadvantage.

So we should consider separating the problematic components... there is no reason not to.

@squaz05 said in Mouse v Controller:

@savagetwinky said in Mouse v Controller:

@squaz05 said in Mouse v Controller:

@savagetwinky said in Mouse v Controller:

@h4iry-0range said in Mouse v Controller:

@squaz05 said in Mouse v Controller:

@knifelife said in Mouse v Controller:

@squaz05 In response to your question, i personally would want controller only servers lol, its something Microsoft will be giving the option for.

The way i see it if i wanted to use a mouse and keyboard i would have bought a PC,

so you want

PC only server
Crossplay servers
Xbox Open servers
Xbox controller only servers

(Should we start adding Xbox 1 X servers only? or PC i7 GTX 1000 series and higher and PC i5 GTX900 series an lower servers? what about PC with controllers only servers? cuz you know... we gotta keep it fair...)

damn.... man... way to split the community

i could be done like this

• pc players on the crossplatform server Cuz a pc player is not whining and they will play against everyone.

• XBOX server for the people on xbox who want more balanced gameplay

keeping in mind that even is there is xbox kb/m support they can still play in the xbox server cuz there is no way to seperate this, and wait for it there will not be allot of xbox players using kb/m usually an gamer with a console is sitting on his couch in the livingroom most horrible position for kb/m

What? How about matchmaking for controller only games... and disable kb/m for the game while on that server...

If you can have server types then you can have server types that actually separate the problematic components.

there is 2 issues in the bolded statement.
1- Separate = split. Rare doesn't want to SPLIT or SEPARATE the community
2- you are making allusion that having a K/M is a problematic component... nope it's not problematic to me, I don't see it as a problem to use K/M...

basically we need to learn to co-exist, lets find solutions that
A) don't involve separating the community into a multitude of servers
B) don't make PC players as "the problem" (you know I can make the Xbox players the problem as them not having the proper equipment to compete with us... see that can go both ways.)

remember we are on the same team, we are gamers, lets work together and not against eachother.

To point 1:

This is a dumb argument, there are like 6 people per server, match making by your definition is already splitting the game community..

Where they shouldn't split the community is down different game mechanics, there should only be one game so the community shares in that single experience. Thats what it means to have a cohesive community... not no options for matchmaking... Match making already attempts to find local servers first for a better experience... there are already points of separation in the community for match making.

There is only 2 solutions, either gimp the control scheme or allow controller users to opt out of k/m match making.

To point 2:

I'm not suggesting that KB/M is a problematic... but mixing the two creates a problem. Its problematic for those using a less precise control scheme. It gives k/m users an advantage in certain cases... and those cases aren't not that rare and can take two teams of equally skilled opponents and the kb/m people might win 9/10 fights. We'd need to know exactly how big of an effect it is... but your appraoch will just alienate controller users until their gone.

You know what separates a community? People quitting and never coming back because they constantly feel like they are at a disadvantage.

So we should consider separating the problematic components... there is no reason not to.

Point 1. Flawed logic... if you make crossplay optional as a PC player I will never be able to play with an Xbox player (because why would an xbox player play in crossplay if they are at such a dissadvantage...) so Ill be playing with my PC friends and you will be playing with your Xbox friends ... that sounds like a split to me!

I'm not suggesting we make crossplay optional... reading comprehension please!

And your playing the same game, the community is still playing the exact same game. And everyone can optionally play with each other. There is nothing wrong with more match making options to make your game more enjoyable.

Optional crossplay is unnecessary... its ignoring the problem of kb/m vs controller. My suggestion was... match make option for controller only game mode.

Point 2.
if it's problematic for Xbox users to use a controller why don't you use a keyboard and mouse? M$ is giving (going to give) you all the tools to get your equipment to be on par with PCs yet you refuse to use them...

as a PC players I would not think twice if SoT required us only to use a controller. The great thing about PCs is that we can adapt...

I am a PC player and I use a kb/m exclusively. But asking everyone to change their hardware to be on a level playing field is asinine. Gaming with a controller can be more enjoyable... especially since its highly accommodating to couches while the kb/m is not.

No one is suggesting controller only also... again reading comprehension...

I'm suggesting.. again... allowing the option for a controller only server when match making... so if your on PC or console and are using a controller an do not wish to be at a disadvantage... match make based on controller only! This is entirely possible.

You want to limit our turn rate and add a stamina to jumping so we can be more on the level of consoles SURE!! if it means playing together WHY NOT? I'M IN!

So your taking option gimp PC players? Why? Why not let for higher level play with kb/m and let controller players go into a game with an even playing field.

If they limited kb/m I'd stop playing. Its a bad solution. It makes the game worse by making the kb/m intentionally clunky/slow.

but hey I don't see Xbox players suggesting that... instead, all I read is "get these hackers off my console"

Get the hackers off the game.

There is a multitude of solutions that can be applied, little fixes that can temporarily mitigate some issues while they fix the mechanics that require more work.

but nooooooo.... durr durr durr PC YUCKY.... DURR DURR I WANNA PLAY WITH MY XBOX BUDDIES ONLY.... DURRRRRR

HURR DURR ICAN'T READ SO I'll MAKE FUN OF HUUUUR DURR

I do agree on some level. I think PC does have a advantage and we need to fix it some how.

The question is how ? I love that fact we can play with PC but there aminong skills with mouse are amazing and I feel like the game runs better for them in general.

Just my thoughts.

@pomalotacusmk3 said in Mouse v Controller:

@kashaarafall Ok, you said. 'kill off the pc community', and i obviously meant 'kill the game for pc'. Everybody thats paying attention to these threads knows we both meant EXACTLY the same thing. Again, as per your previous post, you requested stats regarding my statement, yet you still haven't provided any stats regarding your statement.

I dont have any stats from Rare, but EVERY other crossplay title has OPTIONAL crossplay, and this option/feature has not caused any of those games to fail.

Also, most posters are asking for optional crossplay, not outright removal of the system. This means that those players you mentioned that dont have a decent PC, can still opt into crossplay. So can the players that play on xbox and say they have no problems killing PC. So can the players that dont read forums. Anyone can, choice is good.

I posed a question to someone earlier, and seeing as you are against separation, i'll propose the same question to you...

Microsoft are suggesting that when xbox supports kb/m, games should offer separate playlists for kb/m and controller. This WILL separate players, obviously. Is it not therefore reasonable to request that players are separated NOW, being as Microsoft admits the problem exists NOW, rather than making one section of the players play disadvantaged until some unannounced time in the future when xbox supports kb/m.

The rest of the post, although thoughtful, isn't super important, but that last bit about Microsoft, separation, and kb/m is very important, how do you feel about it?

It is reasonable to separate players now... based on KB/M vs Controller... NOT CROSS PLAY.

@pomalotacusmk3 said in Mouse v Controller:

Also, most posters are asking for optional crossplay, not outright removal of the system. This means that those players you mentioned that dont have a decent PC, can still opt into crossplay. So can the players that play on xbox and say they have no problems killing PC. So can the players that dont read forums. Anyone can, choice is good.

People always say this about "choice" or "freedom" or whatever.

Like its always good and has no cost: just give it to everyone. The same argument you are making was made for PVE-only servers with the same misunderstanding. There is value to creating the biggest, most diverse pool possible, just like there is value to segregating the population by things. Rare chose, for this game, to embrace the former. You can separate players a million ways, like by platform, KBnM-or-controller, ranking system (like many games), microphone status or whatever, but all of those are barriers to play. Making them opt in is still a barrier, albeit a softer one, and Rare has made a great effort to remove as many barriers to letting friends play together as possible.

My friend is not as good at PVP as I am. It may be due to our platforms, or due to my years of FPS play, or any number of other things. If your change went through, of course he would choose "Controller-only" servers on his own. Why not. Now, when I get on and can join him, we have a choice to make. A barrier. What if I don't have a controller? But he's in the middle of a mission! You dirty PC cheaters! Heh. I like it this way. It's more inclusive.

@pomalotacusmk3 said in Mouse v Controller:

@savagetwinky said in Mouse v Controller:

@pomalotacusmk3 said in Mouse v Controller:

@kashaarafall Ok, you said. 'kill off the pc community', and i obviously meant 'kill the game for pc'. Everybody thats paying attention to these threads knows we both meant EXACTLY the same thing. Again, as per your previous post, you requested stats regarding my statement, yet you still haven't provided any stats regarding your statement.

I dont have any stats from Rare, but EVERY other crossplay title has OPTIONAL crossplay, and this option/feature has not caused any of those games to fail.

Also, most posters are asking for optional crossplay, not outright removal of the system. This means that those players you mentioned that dont have a decent PC, can still opt into crossplay. So can the players that play on xbox and say they have no problems killing PC. So can the players that dont read forums. Anyone can, choice is good.

I posed a question to someone earlier, and seeing as you are against separation, i'll propose the same question to you...

Microsoft are suggesting that when xbox supports kb/m, games should offer separate playlists for kb/m and controller. This WILL separate players, obviously. Is it not therefore reasonable to request that players are separated NOW, being as Microsoft admits the problem exists NOW, rather than making one section of the players play disadvantaged until some unannounced time in the future when xbox supports kb/m.

The rest of the post, although thoughtful, isn't super important, but that last bit about Microsoft, separation, and kb/m is very important, how do you feel about it?

It is reasonable to separate players now... based on KB/M vs Controller... NOT CROSS PLAY.

I agree that the split would work if done by input device instead of Xbox or PC.
The big problem with that is numbers.
It would be a tiny tiny number of xboxers using kb/m, and a small number of PC users playing with a controller , so the kb/m servers would be even less populated than a pc server would be. What do you think?
edit: in fact, I'd go as far as saying that there are so few xim users, that 99.99% of all kb/m servers would be PC only servers...wait, how come PC get their own servers, thats what xboxers have been asking for :D

I think that's absurd. Why would the KB/M servers be less populated.

Why would PC users get their own servers if the point of separation has nothing to do with platform?

And it's expected that xbox will have keyboard/mouse support eventually. Where do you even get the 99.99% figure from...

You clearly don't understand the argument I made, and your pulling statistics out your butt.

@electricape said in Mouse v Controller:

@savagetwinky
Do you think that every xbox player is going to rush out & spend £100+ on a KB+M just to be able to play fairly against pc players who they don't really want to play with?

No I expect them to be able to player with a small percentage of players from PC that use controllers if they want a controller only game mode... and I expect PC players to be able to play with a small percentage of players that have kb/m from xbox. This is a completely fine solution. Its allowing xbox players to separate based on the control scheme... along with PC players.

If SOT was (as it should've been) an Xbox exclusive title, there would be no issue.

NO.

As it's not & pc players have joined with a host of advantages, xbox users are expected to

These are dedicated servers.. not P2P there is no host advantage.

a) Deal with it & 'git gud'
b) Buy a PC.
c) Buy an overpriced KB+M if they are ever released.
d) Ask to be separated from pc players
e) Stop playing.

Or play on a controller only mode... problem solved.

Crossplay is another passing fad & forcing it on players will just kill it sooner rather than later.

Cross play is fine. It's treating platform agnostic. Options for matchmaking should be exclusively around

Console users wanted crossplay between consoles, it's MS that wants PC involved due to ££££ & now the pc players know how much of an advantage they get, they want it too ;)

Ok so why are you so hell bent on crossplay not just optionally disabling the advantage and solving the problem. What do you xbox xbox players to do to be on an even playing field.... upgrade to a one x? Upgrade their storage to SSD? When it becomes an option buy a kb/mouse when they are at a disadvantage because of it?