I am reading some of the posts here. Apparently, there's no such thing as griefing, because that's just playing the game the way it was intended. Nice.
Sea of Griefers
@mountainriderak and @Kashaarafall There is griefing in Sea of Thieves and almost everyone agrees on that; the things that people are up in arms about however is the capacity of enemy crews to grief another player's ship. There are some people who consider grieifing to be stealing other players loot, others may think that spawn killing is griefing as well... but those who are logical in the community understand that the only griefing that exists is between players on the same crew.
What Griefing IS
- A member of your own crew is dropping the anchor randomly.
- Someone on your crew is dropping chests overboard while sailing.
- A person on your crew is blowing up gunpowder kegs below deck.
- Your animals are getting killed because a player on your crew is killing them intentionally.
What Griefing ISN'T
- Getting hunted by the same ship for hours.
- Getting killed by an enemy crew as soon as you spawn in on your ship (spawn killing).
- Getting your chests stolen by another crew.
- Someone rocking up to the skull fort on the last wave and stealing the key from your crew.
Now you may call this rant uneccessary but you've written so little in your threads that it's impossible to distinguish what you consider griefing. But @MountainRiderAK, referring to your original statement, there have been no posts on this forum out-right denying the existence of griefing, just clarification for the definition.
@personalc0ffee Elaborate; as far as I'm concerned, players are given every opportunity to prevent themselves from being griefed.
@personalc0ffee So you saying that if I jump on another players ship and kill their crew constantly to steal their resources, that's griefing? And if I hunt a ship for hours because I know they're bad at PvP but are usually carrying loot and resources, that's griefing as well? Or if I know an enemy has been at a skull fort for WAY too long so I rock up and steal the key, that's unacceptable behaviour?
@spunkus-skunkus said in Sea of Griefers:
but those who are logical in the community understand that the only griefing that exists is between players on the same crew.
Agreed. That is what I mean by griefing. A crew member actively sabotaging the game.
@spunkus-skunkus said in Sea of Griefers:
- A member of your own crew is dropping the anchor randomly.
- Someone on your crew is dropping chests overboard while sailing.
- A person on your crew is blowing up gunpowder kegs below deck.
- Your animals are getting killed because a player on your crew is killing them intentionally.
You might want to add
- Intentionally jumping off the ship and asking the rest of the crew to stop the ship
- Spamming comms with requests to put another crew member in the brig
- Giving misleading feedback to the helmsman so that the ship crashes
Here's a specific thread where an unapologetic griefer chimes in:
https://www.seaofthieves.com/forum/topic/67708/is-there-a-place-to-warn-other-players-about-trolling-players
See if you can find the griefer's posts.@personalc0ffee Calling people names and mocking them isn't griefing AND (like always) there's a way to prevent it; if you don't want to hear what other players have to say then turn the "Mute other crews" option on so you don't have to get roasted every time you get sunk. Oh, and if someone's going to willingly spawn back on their ship for literally no gain except to PvP, then they're basically giving you permission to kill them as this is what they're basically saying: "I saw the prompt on the Ferry of The Damned to scuttle my ship but I chose not to, and instead spawned back in to see if I can kill the guy killing me." And hmmmm, why would I choose to kill another player and sink their ship... could it be because this is a PvP game? or maybe because stealing loot is in the name of the game?
Might I also add that I have never been griefed before, and you wanna know why? Because if I'm getting spawn killed then I'll scuttle my ship, if I'm getting hunted down every two seconds then I'll switch servers, and if someone's calling me names then I'll just ignore them. It seems that people would rather write an entire essay on the forums about how "They got griefed for no reason" or "There should be PvE servers" rather than actually figuring out a solution to their problems.
So if you're saying that different crews can grief each other, then you're wrong; the only griefing in this game is between a player and their own crew.
@mountainriderak Well I'm glad we can agree on the 'Griefing' situation and your additions to the list are very welcome; I'll be checking out the thread that you linked, but if we never speak again then I bid you a good day/night.
@spunkus-skunkus said in Sea of Griefers:
"I saw the prompt on the Ferry of The Damned to scuttle my ship but I chose not to, and instead spawned back in to see if I can kill the guy killing me."
I can scuttle my ship on the Ferry of the Damned? I never saw a prompt about this. The game seems to spawn me away from the ship if a camper spawn kills me.
@personalc0ffee But you're thinking of griefing in all the wrong ways! Of course I'm going to intentionally ruin someone else's fun by stealing their chests! Obviously I'm going to make someone annoyed when I blow up a gunpowder barrel underneath their ship! If we always kept others feelings in mind when playing video games then there wouldn't be anymore PvP games! Griefing is doing something for absolutely no gain, but I can assure you that everyone who spawn kills other pirates has their own reason for doing so; and if their reason is simply to have some fun, then so what! You're seriously telling me that people should be banned for spawn killing; do you realise that this occurs in literally ALL PvP games? At least Sea of Thieves gives you ample opportunities to stop this from happening, and it's honestly not that difficult! The griefing in games is only dictated by a player's capacity to do so, so if you ACTUALLY want to stop griefing, then you'll stop feeding that spawn killer easy kills. If you're to ignorant to change your opinion on griefers then at least remember this, how is someone going to grief you if you have your mic muted and you switch servers when they take control of your ship?
@mountainriderak There's this piece of paper on right hand side, underneath the steering wheel; it basically tells you that if you're getting spawn killed then you can scuttle your ship by going to "My crew" and finding the "Scuttle my Ship" option.
@personalc0ffee You're saying the same thing over and over and it's not making your statement any more logical. Whether you like it or not, there will never be a way to stop what you consider to be griefing because it would ruin other aspects of gameplay. So how do we (as players) stop griefing? By doing something about it! Like I said, the only person to be blamed for being 'griefed' is yourself; there's so many ways to stop spawnkilling and witch hunting from happening that complaining about it is comparable to crying over spilt milk.
And what do you mean by "This behaviour"? it seems like you're heavily implying that the things I've mentioned is what you consider to be griefing; if so, then I'd advise you play another game, because I'm going to spawn kill crews as much as I like until I've completely drained their ship of resources and made sure that they're not going to be bothering me again - this is being smart, this is thinking logically, this is PvP, this is NOT GRIEFING!
You won't get griefed if you don't play solo. Last time I played alone, which was months ago, I was sunk by 3 ships sailing together, respawned and already saw them on the horizon, 5 minutes later I was sunk again.
Lesson learned: If you play solo you're gonna have a bad time.
And no 3 ships rolling over a solo player that just respawned because they just sunk him has nothing to do with PvP, that's pure griefing.I have never been griefed when playing in a Galleon crew. So that's my advice, crew up and give 'em hell. (But don't crew up with randoms as that is hell.)
@spunkus-skunkus
Please explain to me how this is a PVP game....where are these stats for PVP? In comparison, how do these PVP stats hold up to PVE stats? My point is this is a PVE game with PVP elements in it. Spawn killing for some supplies is a nul argument, they're pretty much at every island.For me PvP becomes griefing when it's something that will repeat without any chance to break the cycle until you leave the server.
If I'm in a galleon crew getting hunted by another galleon there always will be a change to sink them, so that's just PvP not griefing.
If a galleon crew sees a sloop and sinks it just because it's fun that's also not griefing but just normal PvP.
But if this galleon crew would continue to hunt the sloop, that they know they can sink easily, for an extended period of time then it becomes griefing.next time I see a ship I’ll kill them once and then wait another hour to see the next one... or I could have some fun playing the game and getting into some small arms combat. If anyone really thinks the main goal for most people when they pvp in this way is to have fun specifically at the other persons expense, its mechanically true, because that is literally what the game is, But it isn’t the persons conscious goal. I hear more toxicity from angry losing crews who think they are entitled to friendship in a game called sea of thieves, than I see anything toxic from people who spawn camp or board ships just to fight in small arms combat.
Killing people and stealing while laughing about it in real life is abhorrent behavior, in a video game with a large focus on pvp and theft though? It’s called playing the game, and you don’t need stats or a screen that says “you won!” (Or lost) for pvp to be more fun than standing around doing “work” to sail and play pirate dress up/errand boy simulator...
I have patched enemy ships to continue to kill them and camp their crows nest, for fun alone, you can call me a Griefer, I call it the most fun this game offers besides a real ship encounter where both sides are aggressive.
I know I’m not a bad person irl for doing this, and I also know that I’m not that important that if someone did this to me that I should tell them that I had a bad time so that makes them a bad person and their behavior needs to stop... That’s laughable... If you are sunk and your loot stolen and don’t want to engage further there is literally no reason not to switch servers besides being stubborn and spiteful about the loss. In which case just scuttle instead of leave, stock up on some cannonballs, and sink them! If you can’t do that don’t point your finger and cry “griefer you terrible bad people how could you :0” say “what led to that conclusion that I can fix”
By its loosest definition half of pvp encounters end up with someone being “griefed”, does this mean that the person who had fun With it is evil or something? No it means they came to the table with the right attitude about playing video games in the first place, and knew what type of game they were getting into.
@a-cranky-eskimo said in Sea of Griefers:
I hear more toxicity from angry losing crews
This.
I get a good bit of hate mail, but I found this one especially amusing at 4:35.
[Mod Edit - Video Containing Callouts, Harassment, NSFW language]
Griefing does exist. Here on the forums however, you see so many daily posts of people complaining about things that are not actually griefing. Mainly any sort of PvP where that player lost their loot.
This is a bit messy but I want to say some things about the points people have discussed here:
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I think that it's a bit hard to define all the types of griefing. For example, If
a legendary pirate that has no need for gold or rep kills another ship and steals all their castaway chests, is that griefing as well?
It's obvious they do it for fun and sport at that point, does it mean that legends shouldn't attack others anymore? :p -
It's hard to distinguish the players and their intentions. You will always have, in any type of game, people that just want to ruin it for others simply because they want to see them rage. However, I don't think that these people are that common. If it does happen, you have the tools to make it stop. It's not the best solution but what can you do? Some people are simply like that.
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I see SoT as a game with PvE elemets but with the main focus on the interactions with other players, which is PvP a lot of the times.
This game reminds me of Rust mostly. Sure, you can find friendly players, but you are going to be killed by a naked dude many times as well.
The problem in this game however is that currently, you have no reason to be friendly to others. Hopefully the new alliance system will change that. -
Some people are only interested in PvP and don't even care about the loot. It can be annoying but I don't see it as griefing, and this is coming from a player that is being chased on a daily basis :p
If you think about it, gaining levels and gold is only used to get better looking cosmetic items and ship skins. It's only there to show off that you are a high level pirate when you encounter others.
Anyway, in games with PvP, your success and fun is related to someone else's failure and sometimes even unhappiness. One wins and the other loses, and it's not fun to lose.
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I agree that the vast majority of PvP "griefing" reports posted do not actually fall into the griefing category. That said, I think this scenario by personalc0ffee does constitute griefing....
@personalc0ffee said in Sea of Griefers:
But consider this example. You chase a ship for hours, that you know has nothing to be gained, there is no treasure and no fight to be had but you manage to catch and then board this ship, and patch the holes so it does not sink. Then you proceed to kill that crew over while trash talking, mocking them, etc and over again, until they either leave the game or scuttle.
There is nothing to be gained in this scenario, you've already taken the supplies or they burned through them after a few rounds of boarding and sending them to the Ferry. The pirates in question would be doing this simply to ruin this person's experience for their own fun.
It's how they are getting their jollies and it is abhorrent and despicable behavior that does not belong in the sea.
That is an example of griefing outside of one's crew.
There's no excuse for that behavior, don't care how bored they are and I've seen it happen.
... HOWEVER...
Rare did put in the scuttle from the Ferry note specifically to combat this kind of unsportsmanlike behaviour. If you have nothing of worth on your ship, you have nothing to lose, so it's best to just scuttle and move on if you are stuck in that spawn killing loop. It will also annoy the griefers more than staying in it.
99% of griefing in the game though is from people on your own crew. Voting to the brig is an option but it doesn't deal with the situation adequately. They either leave and go grief another crew or they stay in and take up a place on the crew while also getting a cut of the earnings.
Two fixes to this could be...
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Players in the brig don't get a cut of earnings from loot
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If you get voted to the brig in 3 different sessions in row, in a short time, you get suspended from matchmaking for a bit (20-30 mins, for example)
Yep, I realise that won't work in sloops as it is, because the brig doesn't work... Perhaps the "vote to brig" option in that case could be replaced with "report for griefing"?
Not sure, just brainstorming that one
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@spunkus-skunkus said in Sea of Griefers:
Griefing is doing something for absolutely no gain, but I can assure you that everyone who spawn kills other pirates has their own reason for doing so; and if their reason is simply to have some fun, then so what!
That is a lie, there are plenty of people who just keep spawnkilling when there are no loot and resources, just for the lols of killing others. And those people are griefing. That's what @PersonalC0ffee was talking about, which is quite clear in his posts.
The moment where you've taken everything possible, yet still keep spawnkilling instead of sinking the ship or leave. And that is griefing.
Just because the other crew can avoid the behaviour doesn't give the griefers an excuse for their behaviour.@personalc0ffee said in Sea of Griefers:
@spunkus-skunkus Ah, but it is because THAT IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF GRIEFING. That is a griefer. Someone that is INTENTIONALLY ruining someone else's experience for their own fun.
Saying that you can do x to avoid it, does not make it OK behavior. I'm getting tired of people trying to excuse their abhorrent behavior in these seas by using excuses that you can just leave or utilize mechanics to get away from the situation as if that suddenly undoes the abhorrent behavior that was used in the first place.
We aren't going to agree here. People want to grief and they'll continue to be reported.
For what?
Pvp?!?@a-cranky-eskimo said in Sea of Griefers:
next time I see a ship I’ll kill them once and then wait another hour to see the next one... or I could have some fun playing the game and getting into some small arms combat. If anyone really thinks the main goal for most people when they pvp in this way is to have fun specifically at the other persons expense, its mechanically true, because that is literally what the game is, But it isn’t the persons conscious goal. I hear more toxicity from angry losing crews who think they are entitled to friendship in a game called sea of thieves, than I see anything toxic from people who spawn camp or board ships just to fight in small arms combat.
Killing people and stealing while laughing about it in real life is abhorrent behavior, in a video game with a large focus on pvp and theft though? It’s called playing the game, and you don’t need stats or a screen that says “you won!” (Or lost) for pvp to be more fun than standing around doing “work” to sail and play pirate dress up/errand boy simulator...
I have patched enemy ships to continue to kill them and camp their crows nest, for fun alone, you can call me a Griefer, I call it the most fun this game offers besides a real ship encounter where both sides are aggressive.
I know I’m not a bad person irl for doing this, and I also know that I’m not that important that if someone did this to me that I should tell them that I had a bad time so that makes them a bad person and their behavior needs to stop... That’s laughable... If you are sunk and your loot stolen and don’t want to engage further there is literally no reason not to switch servers besides being stubborn and spiteful about the loss. In which case just scuttle instead of leave, stock up on some cannonballs, and sink them! If you can’t do that don’t point your finger and cry “griefer you terrible bad people how could you :0” say “what led to that conclusion that I can fix”
By its loosest definition half of pvp encounters end up with someone being “griefed”, does this mean that the person who had fun With it is evil or something? No it means they came to the table with the right attitude about playing video games in the first place, and knew what type of game they were getting into.
Woah careful mate.
Them be griefy words according to our caffeinated beverage friendo!
Watch out he doesn't report you!!Haha but seriously, you hit the nail on the head.
Some people are just absolute babies that refuse to fight for their treasure, or will cry and moan that people were being "toxic" - and seriously wish that people who use that term to describe behaviour would actually be dunked in toxic waste.
Makes my skin crawl. But perhaps just because I loathe victimhood and pathetic-ness Olympics which is why I 100% agree with you and @Spunkus-Skunkus@spunkus-skunkus said in Sea of Griefers:
@personalc0ffee Elaborate; as far as I'm concerned, players are given every opportunity to prevent themselves from being griefed.
Preventing themselves from being griefed....does not cancel out the act of griefing that was causing it lol.
@blindnev said in Sea of Griefers:
- I see SoT as a game with PvE elemets but with the main focus on the interactions with other players, which is PvP a lot of the times.
That you clearly see this game from a PVP person view. Not what the game is supposed to be about. Sailing with friends hunting treasure, doing mission becoming PL, since all that can be done without once enganging in PVP, it's not a PVP focused game.
The problem in this game however is that currently, you have no reason to be friendly to others. Hopefully the new alliance system will change that.
There are plenty of reasons...splitting lot at forts means quicker, more rewards long run. Not fighting or defending a lot means you turn in missions faster. Plenty of other examples.
- Some people are only interested in PvP and don't even care about the loot. It can be annoying but I don't see it as griefing, and this is coming from a player that is being chased on a daily basis :p
Griefing no..but not what the game is about and these players make the game more hostile than it should be.
Anyway, in games with PvP, your success and fun is related to someone else's failure and sometimes even unhappiness. One wins and the other loses, and it's not fun to lose.
No it's the case with man PVPVE games. It depends on risk vs rewards. Right now it is all one sided. Attacker has nothing to loose unless they choose to except time.
@spunkus-skunkus so let me throw a hypothetical if I board your ship and take your Legend chest as an enemy Player and texture glitch it behind the bar so you cant pick it up would that be griefing or no.
@dragonsire2016 said in Sea of Griefers:
That you clearly see this game from a PVP person view. Not what the game is supposed to be about. Sailing with friends hunting treasure, doing mission becoming PL, since all that can be done without once enganging in PVP, it's not a PVP focused game.
I'm not a PvP person at all. I actually never attack others :p
Also I didn't say that this is a PvP focused game. I said the focus is on player interaction, which results in PvP many times.This might be just me, but I think that if the game was supposed to be mostly PvE, then we would probably have more stuff to do than just 3 types of voyages for gold.
I see the voyages only as a way to get currency for you to be able to look cooler in the game. There is no real progression since levels and gold is meaningless in the end. Everyone just dresses the way they want anyway.
There are plenty of reasons...splitting lot at forts means quicker, more rewards long run. Not fighting or defending a lot means you turn in missions faster. Plenty of other examples.
Well obviously everyone would level faster if we all joined forces or left each other alone. If that was the point though, we would have PvE servers by now. The PvP aspect is there for a reason. The point of the game is not just getting gold together and level up. It's about the experience, danger and survival in the world.
This is a game where all types of players play. Some just want to be left alone and do their grind while others like the competitve aspect of it.
Yes, you can share the loot at the fort so everyone wins but get a lesser reward. Others however see it as a challenge like a "king of the hill" type of game, where you need to defeat everyone else and claim the rewards for yourself.
Griefing no..but not what the game is about and these players make the game more hostile than it should be.
Again, there is no "right way" to play this game. It attracts all the types of gamers and leaves you with the choice of deciding what kind of a pirate you would like to be.
No it's the case with man PVPVE games. It depends on risk vs rewards. Right now it is all one sided. Attacker has nothing to loose unless they choose to except time.
I agree that it's not very fair. Most PvPers will attack others only when their ship is empty, so like you said, they have nothing to lose.
Not really sure what can be done about that though.
@blindnev said in Sea of Griefers:
I'm not a PvP person at all. I actually never attack others :p
Also I didn't say that this is a PvP focused game. I said the focus is on player interaction, which results in PvP many times.Well you also said this game had pve elements which appeared to suggest that. However I understand better what you mean now.
This might be just me, but I think that if the game was supposed to be mostly PvE, then we would probably have more stuff to do than just 3 types of voyages for gold.
That's debatable. Since the game got released earlier than it should it is harder to judge, but clearly the teaming incentives of the bilge rats, cursed sails AI, alliances etc certainly appears to favor the pve aspect. With zero incentives to pvp, if it isn't supposeded to focus more heavily on pve, they are clearly doing it wrong lol
Griefing no..but not what the game is about and these players make the game more hostile than it should be.
Again, there is no "right way" to play this game. It attracts all the types of gamers and leaves you with the choice of deciding what kind of a pirate you would like to be.That's corporate speak usually for lack of content and direction. Overly hostile players to new players, pushes them away...and that is the last thing RARE wants, in fact they have mentioned the want new players to feel welcome and helped by others. Choice is good until the choice of a few make it toxic, and new people stop coming to game.
I agree that it's not very fair. Most PvPers will attack others only when their ship is empty, so like you said, they have nothing to lose. Not really sure what can be done about that though.
I really don't know. Any suggestions I would have are fairly drastic. RARE has kinda put themselves in a bad position, and I think that is why they are now focusing on giving reasons to players not to focus on PVP in normal game play..it will be interesting to see how it plays out.
@dragonsire2016 said in Sea of Griefers:
That you clearly see this game from a PVP person view. Not what the game is supposed to be about. Sailing with friends hunting treasure, doing mission becoming PL, since all that can be done without once enganging in PVP, it's not a PVP focused game.
It's also not a PvE game. It's a "do whatever you want" game.
@blindnev said in Sea of Griefers:
@dragonsire2016 said in Sea of Griefers:
I agree that it's not very fair. Most PvPers will attack others only when their ship is empty, so like you said, they have nothing to lose.I like to display my treasure on the top deck as to say "this is what you will win if you sink me".
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