4 man Sloop crew confirmed by Joe Neate

@rarden
Rare said that 4 people are kinda the magic number for a good social experience. More people tend to splinter into smaller groups again. But who knows what might happen.

@t1tus-eclipse
Maybe a bad crew will pick the sloop.
My crew would pick the sloop ocassionaly for PvE purposes, tho we are annoyed by its slow speed.
For PvP, a good crew would gain nothing by picking sloop over galleon.

Galleon is faster, harder to sink and has more firepower. Why pick the tiny boat with 2 cannons that takes water from every single hit?

@nebenkuh Are you seriously that clueless?

Faster going into the wind, 1 can easily drive and handle sails while 1 easily handles repairs. Leaving 1 to fire and 1 to board. If that doesnt sound optimal to your crew , i dont know what to tell you.

@marine-rookie said in 4 man Sloop crew confirmed by Joe Neate:

@seedy-platypus
I wouldn't say so unless I have tested it. Also, look through this forum as many other players will corroborate. Therefore, you are incorrect.
Secondly, you may have fired yourself onto a sloop but those were likely steered by new or casual players. Against an experienced sloop, you have almost no chance.
You claim that I am picking fights because I pointed out your fallacies and you have no other way to argue or support your claims. Usually how it goes for those who are in denial about being wrong. I only pointed out your post because I dislike false information, i.e., lies. Also, what I have pointed out is not relevant? Then go back and read carefully or have somebody else who is more competent do it for you. Bye bye!

“Therefore I am incorrect because loads of other people agree”, is this really your argument? Go play the game and you’ll actually see that the galleon has a massive speed advantage, unless it is against the wind. Believe it or not winds change! Race a sloop and a galleon, like I have and the galleon will outrun the sloop easily. Do not believe things just because others do, even the majority.

Secondly you clearly underestimate my skill, firing yourself onto other ships is difficult but very achievable, my crew does it all the time against all ships. Are you really telling me that a skilled sloop could avoid a well aimed human projectile? I suppose you also dodge cannon balls and bullets, I am sure you are the sea of thieves Neo.

You couldn’t point out my “fallacies” because they don’t exist. You tried to claim what I said was incorrect but I have addressed every point you have made, clearly you disagree and claim what I originally wrote to be false however other than you simply disagreeing with me, you have yet to provide any evidence to prove me incorrect.

The bottom line is this, either show some evidence to back up your claim that I am a liar or your words are nothing more than gross slander. If you do not provide evidence then it is clear you are just trying to start unsubstantiated arguments.

As a final note, I do believe my earlier post was somewhat hostile. There is no excuse, I will make every attempt from now on to keep things friendly, I hope you do the same.

@t1tus-eclipse
What's with the need to call others clueless because they challenge your opinion?

A galleon is fast enough when tacking against the wind to stay close enough to a sloop until the wind changes.
I regularly sail a galleon solo while the other 3 board or whatever. The situation you describe already exists.
Feel free to pick a 4 man sloop tho. You'll be easy pickings :)

@nebenkuh What happened to debating?

I said "Faster going into the wind, 1 can easily drive and handle sails while 1 easily handles repairs. Leaving 1 to fire and 1 to board."

I didnt even mention smaller , therefore more maneuverable and harder to hit.
Or that there are less spots for holes and less space to maneuver between barrels/holes.

You just think oooh 4 cannons its gotta be stronger, but the fact of the matter is in ship to ship combat you are never going to have more than 2 of those cannons firing at once unless some noob sails directly toward a broadside while you are parked somewhere.

Also, there is no PVE. You are always Pvping if someone finds you and decides they want your loot or the luls.

@t1tus-eclipse

So? You can do the exact same thing on a galleon. One person is enough to sail a galleon in battle. 2 if you want to be safe.
If you have even 2 people hitting the sloop with cannons it will cause substantial amounts of damage as well as knocking their crew over board or killing them. That is the advantage of more cannons and the sloops disadvantage because it's so small. We fire all 4 canmons all the time, it's easy when your positioning is good. More cannons also means sustained fire while 1 - 2 are firing themselves over to board.
Maneuverability is not a big problem for the galleon. It can turn to match the sloops direction with its broadside, unless the sloop is running away, then it's even less of a threat. :)

Also I already said that my crew would likely pick the galleon for PvE too because it's faster, and because we like to do forts when they appear. But I can see why a crew might want the sloop for only doing voyages and running away.

@muirist

1. Solos already deal with 4 man crews. Nothing changes.
2. Galleon is faster, harder to sink and has more firepower. Also easier to defend from boarders.
3. You can do the same on a galleon already.

Why don't we just wait to see it in action before crying about it?
There are a wealth of positive changes associated with this. Don't dismiss that because 4 crew sloops MIGHT BE OP in your opinion.

Edit: two things Rare absolutely should do when implementing this change are:

1. dramatically increase player draw distance so you can see how many people are on an approaching ship before its in firing range. This will give crews ample time to react.
2. Allow changing your ship at the shipwright so people can choose what ship they want depending on server situation.

@nebenkuh You can NOT solo sail a galleon in battle. G**O

You can STEER, but you are not maintaining 3 sails and steering in ship to ship battle while your 3 buds fire away at cannons. Just stop.

If 4 man sloops should really turn out to be the unsinkable killing machines a lot of people make them out to be, I will be the first to publicly admit I was wrong on this very forum.

However, I'd also like to point out that there are more options than yes or no when it comes to the issue of 4 man sloops. There are many more subtle ways to tweak the balance so there would not be a problem. For example, players could receive more damage from cannon hits while they are inside the hull. Or cannons fired from close range could punch through a ship, causing two holes instead of one. Etc

I don't really see how the 4 man slow changes the galleon/sloop dynamic at all.

A 4 man-galleon is already literally unsinkable by a sloop due to the lack of firepower and uptime. In reality, a 4 member sloop is only going to be better at throwing their lifes away when trying to board(because boarding is garbage against people that pay attention), otherwise the sloop more or less remains the same against galleons.

With so many players as well, the chances of one player getting wrecked by a cannonball is extremely high, further reducing the effect of a 4 man-sloop against a galleon.

The 4-man sloop balance is only bad against other sloops, because they lack the player number and firepower to deal with said sloop. While this is obviously imbalanced, mostly against solo sloops, they can easily just turn tail and run. There's no secret that sinking a ship not interested in engaging you is basically impossible, meaning the imbalance hear wont be nearly as bad as people are making it out to be.

@t1tus-eclipse
I do it all the time. Who said anything about maintaining 3 sails? 1 is usually enough.
Speed is not your friend in most battles ;)

@nebenkuh

Lol

@lenny2k3
Other sloops also have to deal with crews of 4 already, so the only real change would be the ship they are up against. :)

@nebenkuh
Pretty much, except this ship is easier to outrun in a straight line, but harder to avoid in cramped areas.

@t1tus-eclipse
Great argument! :)

@Nebenkuh

Sorry , its just that i get why you are so for this now.

https://www.seaofthieves.com/forum/topic/53731/the-real-reasons-behind-larger-sloop-crews-and-why-they-re-a-good-idea

@t1tus-eclipse
What are you implying?

@marine-rookie

I lined up a sloop next to a galleon, both facing against the wind with the same sail orientation. At the exact same time, four people dropped all four sails from both ships.

What we observed is the sloop initially accelerated quicker to begin with and gained about two ships length of distance ahead of the galleon, then both ships speed seemed to stabilise and the distance stayed relatively constant.

We did the test as carefully and objectively as possible and observed the results. What I deduced was that when sailing against the wind both ships sailed at a very similar speed. The difference in speed was unobservable once both ships speed had stabilised, although the sloop may well have been going a tiny bit faster but it was negligible.

We also conducted a similar test sailing with the wind and the galleon obviously raced away from the sloop.

From the test I theorised that if a sloop and galleon were both engaged in combat, it would be incredibly difficult for a sloop to take the initiative to create distance between the two ships, where as for the galleon this would be incredibly easy. Even if the sloop were to sail against the wind, the galleon would not be far behind it, where as if the galleon sailed with the wind it would race away from the sloop and create distance. If the sloop wanted to sail in a fixed position, then the wind would eventually change to the galleons favour. If the roles were reversed then the galleon would maintain distance or race away from the sloop.

Where is my credibility? I conducted this test under strict conditions, the only independent variable was the ship type. If you would like to conduct the same test yourself and validate or invalidate my test, then feel free to and post the results.

How does all of this link in to my original post? Based on the results of my test, I maintain that the galleon has initiative to gain distance when faced against a sloop in the vast majority of situations. This is why I think four man sloops won’t be a problem, the galleon will still have some good advantages.

@t1tus-eclipse said in 4 man Sloop crew confirmed by Joe Neate:

@nebenkuh You can NOT solo sail a galleon in battle. G**O

You can STEER, but you are not maintaining 3 sails and steering in ship to ship battle while your 3 buds fire away at cannons. Just stop.

I have sailed a galleon into battle solo and sunk another ship at a fort. I raised sails in advance, parked my ship so I crossed the other ships T, shot a few balls below the water line, shot myself onto their deck and camped the lower deck until they sank. This was 1v4 btw, they were not paying attention and they had pretty much sunk by the time the other two got back to the ship. If they were moving or paying attention then this would have been a lot more difficult but not impossible.

I’m not getting involved in your argument or even saying that @Nebenkuh managed to do what he said he could do. I am however saying that it is totally possible to solo sail a galleon and win.

@seedy-platypus said in 4 man Sloop crew confirmed by Joe Neate:

I have sailed a galleon into battle solo and sunk another ship at a fort. I raised sails in advance, parked my ship so I crossed the other ships T, shot a few balls below the water line, shot myself onto their deck and camped the lower deck until they sank. This was 1v4 btw, they were not paying attention and they had pretty much sunk by the time the other two got back to the ship. If they were moving or paying attention then this would have been a lot more difficult but not impossible.
I’m not getting involved in your argument or even saying that @Nebenkuh managed to do what he said he could do. I am however saying that it is totally possible to solo sail a galleon and win.

Cherry picked instances of idiots and beginners doesn't count in game balance btw. Game design 101.

@lenny2k3
That works both ways tho. Balancing around noobs isnt exactly a good idea either. :)

@lenny2k3

Never said it did, I was just pointing out it is possible. Some other guy thought the notion of managing a ship on your own was unthinkable, he was wrong.

Can we please just let this thread die already? Most people don't want the unbalanced mess that would be a 4 man sloop.

@ve111a
Argumentum ad populum.

Most people would probably want 20 captains chest from a single GH riddle. Doesn't make it a good idea. :)

this is a horrible idea I think the limit of a sloop should be two max then come out with another ship for 3 to 5 then a remodeled galleon for 5 to 10. or maybe a smaller ship for 1 player, faster smaller carries less loot on cannon on the bow weak to ramming and cannon fire but almost impossible to hit. but weak against storms.

@nebenkuh said in 4 man Sloop crew confirmed by Joe Neate:

@ve111a
Argumentum ad populum.

Most people would probably want 20 captains chest from a single GH riddle. Doesn't make it a good idea. :)

Then those people don't understand balance. This is different and was built this way for a reason.

@ve111a
They are also changing it for a (very good) reason.
Why don't we just wait and see how it works out, then tweak a bit here and there if it's really unbalanced? Why must it be black or white?

@nebenkuh said in 4 man Sloop crew confirmed by Joe Neate:

@ve111a
They are also changing it for a (very good) reason.
Why don't we just wait and see how it works out, then tweak a bit here and there if it's really unbalanced? Why must it be black or white?

When it comes to balance it needs to, People will quit. This isn't a good idea and never will be people just need to stop and be patient for the new ship. That's in the summer and I can probably guarantee it will be a 2-3 person ship.

@nebenkuh said in 4 man Sloop crew confirmed by Joe Neate:

@lenny2k3
That works both ways tho. Balancing around noobs isnt exactly a good idea either. :)

You misunderstand me.
Games balance should mainly be based around the top percentage of players.

@seedy-platypus said in 4 man Sloop crew confirmed by Joe Neate:

@lenny2k3

Never said it did, I was just pointing out it is possible. Some other guy thought the notion of managing a ship on your own was unthinkable, he was wrong.

That's because it is(managing a galleon that is). Again, you sunk beginners and idiots, where half of the players admittedly werent even present. You cannot base your argument around that.