@almightyanima What do you mean by "you people?"
Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal
@touchdown1504 haha. "You people"... Right? W*F? Although they make points.
As for our discussion. Like I said I would like a compromise where you don't lose everything but the person who makes the effort to steal your stuff also gets something that they deserve, hence a percentage to each. You still get something for your time, just not everything because you didn't finish everything. The gold is a turn in reward and shouldn't be changed.
As for lore vs game mechanic, the game mechanic supports the lore and the lore supports the game mechanic. That is basic game design.@daveyjay1984 Yup, I get that. A bonus in rep on turn in would actually be necessary, because we need to account for things like shipwrecks, or chests that are found washed up. That sort of thing. The only thing I am at a complete loss for is the Merchant's Alliance.
@touchdown1504 Yeah. I don't know what to say about merchant alliance. I mean I don't want people to get rep just for capturing an animal because they will just go and catch one, get rep, kill and then catch the next. Nasty cycle of aweful behaviour to level.
@daveyjay1984 Well I hate to admit it, because if someone doesn't read everything it undoes the entire discussion. Leave the MA as is because it is timed with a set location. It really is (to me) the only one that makes sense to reward both at turn in.
@touchdown1504 Hahaha. It has been a long discussion. And entertaining. I'm not sure we will ever come to a full agreement but I think we've brought a good discussion to the table.
If this was done, nobody would turn in their loot or voyages. They would just fulfill them and start a new, to boost levels as fast as possible. It would also almost completely remove any sense of risk and excitement. Very bad suggestion that would destroy the overall gameplay, feel and point of the game.
@triableterror49 How would it destroy gameplay? Why wouldn't people turn in their loot? I agree, folks would probably use it to boost as fast as possible, isn't good grinding about efficiency? How would risk and excitement be removed? You didn't read the entire thread! Looks like you jumped in on the end and just tossed a comment, all of these questions have been addressed.
@DaveyJay1984 yup, good convo, good constructive convo. We need more of that in the forums, and less of the last two posters!
I agree with you @enpixelate. An example is a Raid itself. I finally jumped into a game where the crew was already in the Raid. We spent another 2 1/2 to 3 hrs finishing up the Raid, mainly because ships kept returning, and after we open the vault and got all the stuff to the ship another ship had already shown up and sunk us. So not only did 2 1/2 to 3 hrs of work get wasted in losing the actual loot but we didn't get a darn thing. Personally after about an hour helping the crew I was already starting to get bored but I am one of the handfuls of people who play multiplayer games to help people not cause them to have a bad day so I stayed to the end. Being my first raid it may also be my last raid because I don't want to spend hours trying to get the loot just for someone else to be able to turn it in and get all the stuff for not doing a darn thing. I find a lot more needs to be done to reward the player for things they do. I left the Division for this very reason and although they supposedly fix their game since I left 3 months after the game released it is to late I already had a bad enough taste in my mouth I don't want to go back. $100 wasted on that game.
So if there was a way to reward people for at least completing stuff and then instead of getting the XP for turning them in you get "Gold" only. That way when people steal your stuff they are getting the "Gold" only which is what they should get. They shouldn't get the XP/Level advance for not spending hours doing the quest/voyage/raids.
There will be a lot of people who will be angry about that and those are the people who enjoy sitting back and waiting till everyone does all the work so they can just go take it from them. Even the ones that say "I am one that does all the work and doesn't like getting stuff taken from me but that is the game". I'm sure you are one of those that do what I am saying and are saying the opposite just to try and make sure the game isn't changed against you.
Please improve this game so hours of grind doesn't feel like a waste of time or you will eventually lose people just like The Divison and recently Destiny 2 did. Once people leave with a bad taste in their mouths a lot of them won't come back regardless of how much you change the game.
@kn1ghtra1der Excellent points! I rarely do forts, so that hadn't even entered my thinking yet. Thanks for your input!
So people are against this idea because it doesn't agree with 'faction logic'; that being, if you don't return the items to the faction, then you shouldn't earn the reputation. This does make sense, and I once held the same belief.
Now I believe that we should earn some reputation when the voyage is complete, even if it is only a part of the full rep you'd earn as you hand in the goods. It does not have to agree with faction logic; in fact, there are many things which don't make logical sense in this game. Sometimes, breaking logic is ok if it means the player has more fun and stays engaged with the game.
@kn1ghtra1der Your point of getting Gold only, but not faction XP if you have stolen it from another player, I really like. It would maybe deter people from screwing you over if they also wanted reputation bonuses. They would get the gold but not the reputation for all your hard work.. YES! But yes something needs to be done so hours of work can not easily be taken away and you're left with nothing. That is a morale killer for sure.
@Scrub-Toaster and @BosunBrad you guys get it! The "faction xp" does look logical from a lore and story telling perspective. But makes almost no sense from a "fun" game play perspective. Early on, maybe promotion levels 15 and below it did not bother me at all. Now, when running with 4 or more maps and a literal boat load of loot, easily 1 1/2 to two hours of effort put in....the loss is very punishing, and not the least bit fun.
@enpixelate Don't agree. Rep = reputation, why would a pirate gain reputation when they were unable to finish their voyage and hand in their loot?
This is a game and I'm all for making PvP itself healthier but this would mean pirates have less to fight for, oh whatever if we sink we still get 50% of the reward....
It's not hard to be on your guard and sail away from ships which mean you harm. Hand in frequently at outposts and you minimise losses if you do get sunk.
I agree with a little credit for solving riddles and maps, that's a great idea, but if you've been sent by an NPC then the majority of rep gain should still come from handing in.
If you spend two hours on a voyage and haven't handed in then that is your fault, that's quite a long amount of time to be accumulating loot.
@touchdown1504 Why on earth would a player sail around 'loaded with loot', that's asking for trouble. Plus if they were loaded with loot, sail cautiously, avoid tight areas and stay in the open sea where you can see anyone approaching. It really isn't difficult o_O
I don't think we need to coddle people who don't know how to defend their loot. I've had loot stolen too and it sucks but the vast majority of voyages I can hand in no problem.
@angrycoconut16 Where in this entire discussion did anyone say they needed help turning in? Where did anyone say they don't sail cautiously? Nobody is asking to be coddled. I think you replied to the wrong thread. This is about reward timing for Xp and Gold. "Loaded" is a relative term. If I have a map with 4 chests on it, for me that is loaded when playing solo!
@touchdown1504 What? For heavens sake don't take what I say so literally, I'm just trying to make a point. I'm replying to the thread asking people to get some of their reward early in case they aren't able to hand in. While I support a little rep for solving a riddle, or a map, most of the reward should still come from handing in.
What I'm saying is that if you sail cautiously it is really easy to ensure you can hand in your loot in a safe manner, thus I don't understand the need for people wanting lots of rewards before they've even reached the goal of handing in the loot.If you are playing solo and you want to dig up 4 chests solo and hand them in, that is the risk you take. I think you should be given some rep for digging up each individual chest and correctly finding the location, yes. But the majority of you rep, and all of your gold, should come from handing it in to the NPC. If it's really that difficult, dig up two chests, turn in, sail back... if you can't be bothered and that would take too long then fine but that's the risk you take playing solo - there is literally no one else to defend your ship but you.
@pearlay Uh the message across my screen when I did up the last chest says otherwise.
Clear as day it says "Voyage Complete".
I don't care what anyone says. It is horrible gameplay / system design to make players get ZERO for an hour of play if they get killed in PvP. Do a 3 chapter mission, get ganked. No progress whatsoever. Its an annoyance to me, but I personally know people who have quit the game over it.
Its not good to have such archaic systems in game that literally make people quit and uninstall. Its hard winning those people back. Uninstalling = smaller playerbase = hurts everyone.
Order of Souls - 80% experience for killing all of the targets. 20% experience + 100% gold upon turning in skulls
Gold Hoarder - 80% experience for digging up all chests. 20% experience + 100% gold upon turning in chests
Merchants - 50% experience for capturing animals. 50% experience + 100% gold upon turning in (this one is different because turning in does complete the voyage, unlike the other 2).
@angrycoconut16 Ok that makes better sense. But, it isn't about the diffuculty, or lack of, or anything in between. It is about complete loss when you lose, say , even one chest or skull. You lose all Reputation, all gold, and all time invested. The idea here is to split the reward system. You gain the reputation (which is really just experience points) by the doing of the task, you gain the gold (which is really just points toward cosmetic rewards) by turning in. You may need to read back through the whole thread to get better clarity on what is being discussed. It really has absolutely nothing to do with difficulty, everything to do with enjoyment.
@touchdown1504 Skulls - yes rep should be awarded for killing said pirate. NOT for finding (i.e shipwreck), I can't remember if merchants alliance rewards you for capturing the correct animal? But I'd be for that too, or locating the correct item.
I am against a 50/50 split though, I'd say... around 15% up front? Rest on hand in. I know that might seem harsh but this is my reasoning:
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There has to be a sense of 'oh we really have to get this to an outpost!' if I find something valuable like a villainous skull I can feel my heart beat increase especially if I spot another ship on the horizon, I know I need to make turning in a higher priority on my list if I don't want to lose it. Getting half of your reward early would still give that effect, but far less.. because you have a decent amount of the reward already..
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I know it's just exp, but for the sake of this game exp is called rep, in other words the reputation of your pirate and thus contribution to pirate legend. I think a large part of that has to involve defending what is yours, if the time comes (i.e. you are attacked), that's why I think most rep should come from handing in...
I understand the points, I really do. But the moment you leave the outpost on a quest you are on the sea with pirates, you should never feel safe with your loot until you RETURN to an outpost and have handed in your loot, at any point in that journey you can be attacked.
I understand it's for enjoyment but to be honest if you're that annoyed about losing loot then take a break and come back to the game, I've lost loot and I know it sucks but it's called SEA OF THIEVES, when it has happened to me I've picked myself up and learnt from my mistakes (including new tactics) to stop it happening again...
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@skyewauker 80% upfront? Then where is the challenge? More like 20% up front 80% on hand in. The thing is, remember after each voyage your progress IS SAFE, after every single voyage (and by voyage I mean outpost turning in, I do agree it's bizarre the game tells you your voyage is complete when you haven't even returned the item yet)...
When you have got the gold and rep, it doesn't matter how many times you die, you will not lose it! I don't think it's unfair for you to have to go out and earn it, why should it be easy? There is nothing archaic about it, it just isn't a game which babysits you, if you die, and someone takes it, it is lost to you.
@angrycoconut16 I am not annoyed at losing loot. I enjoy the game. This is a discussion about improvements to the system. I also understand your reasoning here, I simply disagree. The Gold, is the turn in reward. I don't think another player that stole the loot from a player that solved the riddle, killed the boss, captured the animal, whatever, should gain that player's reputation. I also don't think ANY reputation should be lost on a disconnect, a storm, the kraken. If we want to call Experience Points reputation, what really makes a reputation? Encountering the Kraken should award points, defeating a fort should award reputation, defeating another pirate, every skeleton kill, the list can go on forever. reputations are built in many different ways, not all are good reputation. If we want to go down that road maybe reputation should be a sliding scale and you begin to gain negative reputation for doing things like ambushing people at an outpost, sinking docked ships, etc. So, for the purpose of this discussion, it is experience points, because all it does is allow you to unlock purchasable promotions toward legend. With that in mind, Reputation on Voyage Complete, Gold on turn in. In no way does that impact the game play in a negative way.
@angrycoconut16 What do you mean where is the challenge? I just went and dug up 7 chests. That is the challenge for the experience.
Gold is the challenge for getting back to the outpost without getting jumped.
You still don't get it. It seems like no one really does. It is not good game design to have a short session game and lets be clear, thats what this is. Its a lobby based game. Hop in, do some missions, hop out. Its not good design at all to have your players hop in, spend 30 minutes ACTUALLY doing the mission (kill bosses, gathering animals, getting chests, whatever it is) and get ZERO in return due to server crash or PvP.
Im fine with losing the gold if I get ganked. I am not fine with losing progress. Casuals are the lifeblood of any game, with the exception of games like Mobile Strike where its F2PExtreme and the whales rule the world. Without casuals in a game like this, it will sink faster than a beached Sloop.
There is potential to play 2-3 hours and with a bit of bad luck and never have your rep move at all. Trust me, I have had it happen to me. Ive done a 3 tier mission, had 7 skulls on board my ship, get into a PvP battle and lose everything. Thats fine. I start another mission, spend another 30 minutes, get jumped again by not one but 2 ships (1 galleon 1 sloop) and lose stuff again.
2 and a half hours. No rep. Its a bad feeling and no one sane would agree that no progress for 3 hours in a game is good design.
@enpixelate Thank you for pushing this too. I've been telling this for literally weeks but maybe this is the right time. I hope my upvote would help this mechanic to be a thing.
@skyewauker Said it better than I could have! That is an excellent angle to look at this, a short session game. That is the entire point of this thread. I can't speak for everyone, but for myself, time is very limited. So, if I hop on, play an hour and a half, and hop off with zero, I have to ask, what was the point (yeah I know exploration, blah, blah, heard it all before) Some of us like to progress too! Casuals are what will keep a game like this rolling into the future.
@AngryCoconut16 I have asked several times in this thread for someone to give me a true, honest, articulated reason why splitting the rewards would actually be a negative. I get things like "its not supposed to be easy", "the game doesn't hold your hand", "it will ruin PvP", look through the thread. The game is entertainment, it is supposed to be fun. It simply is not fun ending a session at a complete zero.
@touchdown1504 This wouldn't be an improvement! It would be numbing down the game to people who don't like dying! Your job is to get the item and turn it in, not get the item and not return with it!
If a pirate steals your loot, THAT is what they are getting rep for, pirate REPUTATION for being a BETTER pirate! A reputation is increased by completing impressive deeds, and completing acts to EARN rep, digging up a chest then losing it to a better player is not reward-worthy...
You seriously want to REMOVE rep for people acting like a pirate?! This is a pirate game, I am losing patience with people like you at the moment, don't even suggest punishing people for acting like a pirate in this game. It is called sea of thieves not SEA OF FRIENDS.
I really don't understand how else to explain this. People are acting like sore losers and expect to be hand-held. This would not improve the gaming experience it would change it to one where there is far less to be scared about on the sea, and that should never be the case. Loot is up for grabs until it is turned in, and it should always be viewed that way.
EDIT: 'it is supposed to be fun' well I ENJOY being chased by people trying to steal my loot, it gives you a reason to defend - literally your reward. If you don't find it fun, then this is not the game for you. You are only at complete zero from that single voyage, you are acting as though you lose all of the gold from your profile, everything you have handed in previously is safe...
@skyewauker Server crash and disconnections are separate issues, if that happens, that sucks but that's not the games fault. (well server crashes are, but it happens sometimes).. if I am playing a ranked game and I disconnect, I do not expect to not lose ranking, if I am playing a game whereby it's a dungeon on a particular server and I disconnect, I don't expect the rewards unless I can reconnect back in time or something.
Digging up 7 chests is really not that challenging, just time consuming if you are solo. I agree with 10-15% rep up front if Rare decided that but no more.
In this game exp serves no purpose - you have no stats, and no gains from levelling up other than cosmetic, therefore rep is literally what it is called - REPUTATION, if you are wearing that expensive pirate legend gear or if you have an impressive sail from being 50 with a faction, it means you are not a pirate to be messed with and you are a seasoned pirate. Why should you gain contribution to that when you have all of your stuff stolen all the time? And if it isn't all the time but only once or twice, then why are you crying about it? It's part of the game.
Yes, there is a potential you will play 2-3 hours and not get rep, but that's the game. For heavens sake, if I play 2-3 hours on a different game and I'm never able to defeat the end boss (as a separate example..) I'm not going to go on the forums and complain 'look I want more exp even though I didn't kill the boss because I spent time on the game...'
I know that's a slightly different example, but same principle, only this even more so because the very basis of this game is that you are in a sea with pirates/thieves, you should never view loot as yours and guaranteed income until you have turned in.
I agree it's not nice, but if it's that much of an issue, sail with other pirates, join a galleon or duo on a sloop. I assume you were solo with these 7 skulls? If so then that's extremely risky anyway..
@kn1ghtra1der I can't say that I agree with the splitting of exp./gold on loot. For example, yes the group that sunk you did not spend however much time you did finishing a skull fort but if they rolled up on you and swam a person to each side of your boat with explosive barrels and then boarded you and shotgun the bottom deck as you try to come fix it then they showed good strategy and "experience". This is why rep for completed voyages makes sense. You finished the map and proved you can do all the puzzles. If you return with said loot then it is an added bonus, but if another team out sails/guns you then that is your lack of experience/skill and I know that sucks but that's how pvp works and for a successful takedown they deserve all the gold/exp. the loot rewards.
@angrycoconut16 It is extremely obvious you have only read a part of this thread and cherry picked for your comments. I don't disagree with you on most of this, go back and read. this has nothing to do with hand holding, and all this other nonsense people keep throwing in this thread, or PvP, threads, or PvE threads. A bunch of recycled comments. Read deeper, NOBODY said remove rep for acting like a pirate. Oh, and calm down bro, if you are losing patience for people like me? in the whole 9 days you have been here? I suggest you find another hobby.
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