Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal

@skyewauker Also, I agree that SOME exp should be tied to voyage completion. I think it would actually be better to keep the amount you receive from turn ins the same as it currently is, and just do a bonus depending on the difficulty of the voyage (number of maps/animals/chapters).

@papasohan said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@i-am-lost-77 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@enpixelate honestly this idea would fix a lot more problems then I originally realized. But it should definitely be a high percentage like 80% or 90% on voyage completion.

Pros
-Boosting will be much more tedious and difficult to do
-PvE player will be happy because they get rewarded with the xp to get to legendary
-PvP players won't have to chase ships for 2 hours because they will most likely scuttle if they don't want to fight to save time. if all they are losing is gold its not as big of a deal as all your work being stolen as is the nature of the current system.
-PvPvE players will be more inclined to fight off their attackers to save time and because they got their xp. So even of they lose the battle it wouldn't be a total loss

Cons
-Only downside is PvP players will get significantly less xp but that could be fixed with a new PvP focused faction or Bounty system. End game of that faction could be something like a "Feared Legend"

I can only speak on these from my own perspective. That said:

-I could care less if other players boost, doesn't bother me one iota, especially since there is no advantage gained by the boosted player in game.
-If all PvE players want is rep, which is 100% or mostly attainable from simply completing the voyages, then they never have any incentive to fight back or guard their loot, making it boring for both sides.
-This has literally never happened to me or anyone I know. That said, even if someone is doing this, you should be able to do drive bye dropoffs of your loot while still avoiding the other ship. People need to learn how to play the game and learn how to not have all their loot stolen, not have the system removed entirely.
-I believe this would have the opposite effect. No one would feel inclined to fight off anyone as the only incentive is the possibility of some relatively meaningless gold. Even if Rare did have tons of things to spend gold on, I only really care about rep and getting to legendary.

Rep on voyage completion would change this into a completely boring game not worth playing. The thrill of stealing loot and the anxiety of having it stolen is what makes this game great. If you take that away you're left with a pretty boring and lame game.

Also, what happens if you get a five chapter voyage with multiple islands but something comes up and you have to get off the game. As it stands right now you could run to an outpost and turn your items and and get full credit for whatever you have done so far. Or, if the server is shutting down for maintenance and you get a 15 minute warning (happened to us). If you don't have enough time to finish you get zero credit?

Shipwrecks and skull forts give very little to no rep in your scenario, why bother doing them?

Although, something I could get on board with: If you are in the vicinity of a skull fort when the captain is killed, you automatically get a good amount of reputation. This would help reduce the stalemate that forts currently are.

-some people have a problem with it, I also personally don't but non the less it would

-PvE players don't want to fight anyway, its has become an incentive to scuttle to not waste time with being chased by a PvP player till the end of the map if you have little loot on board to lose, this just allows them to not lose everything they did and still allowing them to play the way they want. And giving them only 1/3 of the rep for doing all the work is why so many people want PvE servers.

-As a PvPvE player I have been in very long chases both being chased and chasing. I have personally never chased someone for 2 hours. But if someone loaded their boat up with 20+ treasures they are not gonna engage another player and some PvP players will stubbornly chase them. Give the team that earned it their xp and let them fight for their gold or surrender it.

-I would personally be much more inclined to fight off an attacker if loaded with treasure knowing the majority of what i am losing is gold. Right now you lose everything. I am more then capable of outrunning another ship indefinitely but that is boring and a waste of time but its better than giving all YOUR hard work to the sea dog chasing you.

-partial rewards for partial voyage completion? I think this is less of an issue though. But their should be incentives to finish a voyage. Its becoming popular for players to end gold hoarder voyages earlier because they don't feel solving the riddles is worth the effort.

-to quote myself in relation to your last point "The one exception is forts but they could award xp based on participation (waves cleared, captain killed, ect)"

@creeper3112 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

the game is made like this ... just as the name of the game says the goal is to conquer the seas, if you are attacked you must know how to defend your booty. Yes, I know, it's a bit 'bad that after hours of play you lose everything but in the game you are all "pirates" ... and the pirates steal the treasures

Its a game not real life. Its meant to be enjoyable and fun and no solo sloop is happy when a 4 man galleon steals an hour of his life away. I can personally handle myself fine but those who play the game casually or are not as skilled at PvP should still be rewarded for playing. Have you seen the amount of threads for PvE servers. This would solve so many of their complaints.

@papasohan Well... I think I understand why you say so.
I have to say, in my opinion the lack of decision making in the offices of rare concerning the questing has a tremendous (and negative) impact on the game.

I feel like the quests towards lvl 50 should be linear, each giving xp, each quest being different with an indicator to tell you if you did the quest already.
Therefore a quest could give xp once the voyage is finished, sort of "bound to the account", meaning you couldn't have the xp from the quest again, though you could indeed gain xp from the chests if you were to do it again.

And bottles & books quest could be bonus quests.
Then you could have an achievement "complete all the quests in the game".
Then you could have a real sense of progression in pve
Then you could have a lore... a story...

You could interact with the NPCs after you finish a quest, saying "here is the skull, please tell me more about this captain I defeated/stole the chests from, who was he when he was alive? What's his story?" And obviously you would need interactions when you get the rewards stolen... Like "Someone stole it from me, please tell me what you know about it" so you could progress on the quests even when your rewards (gold) are gone.
Kinda divide gold from xp...

And pilling up to what you said, Pvp rewards are lacking in the game. It has been said hundreds of times, even the most basic things like having barrels going up when a ship goes down to salvage planks & cannonballs...

I feel like it's already too late for rare to implement all this, but I really wish it wasn't.
Staf'

@papasohan said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@i-am-lost-77 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

-PvPvE players will be more inclined to fight off their attackers to save time and because they got their xp. So even of they lose the battle it wouldn't be a total loss

-I believe this would have the opposite effect. No one would feel inclined to fight off anyone as the only incentive is the possibility of some relatively meaningless gold. Even if Rare did have tons of things to spend gold on, I only really care about rep and getting to legendary.

This point especially I think you are very incorrect on. I personally do PvP because it is a lot of fun. The treasure is a bonus. As stated earlier its not a productive way of getting loot. If anything I think this would increase the amount of pirates who fight back, even if they have some loot on board, and would in my opinion would be a lot more fun. The reason people with treasure always run is because they literally lose everything if they lose.

Picture a ship low on loot but had a little but they wanted to go hunt another ship. They spot one and head for it. The ship there heading for has a decent amount of loot lets say like 10 chests. If its the way it is now 99% of the time they will run because they have so much to lose and possibly nothing to gain if the ship coming at them is empty. Now instead they just finished their voyage and got a majority of their xp. They now think well its been a pretty successful voyage lets try and sink these guys so we can turn in out loot faster. Some will still flee but i think a larger majority will fight and here is why:

They win:
Old: They keep their xp gold plus enemies xp and gold (likely minimal)
New: They keep their xp and gold plus enemies gold (likely minimal)

They lose:
Old: the lose all the xp and gold (likely high) they spend the last hours or so on
New: They lose a currency used to buy cosmetics and a tad of xp

@skyewauker said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@papasohan You dont anyway though. If you are playing for legendary status, you are doing forts anyways. There is no quicker way atm. This is what needs to happen honestly:

• Tie 66% of voyage exp to completion of voyage, the other 33% on turn in.
• Non-voyage turn-ins exp increased by 50% (10% is a joke)

This would solve everything. It would give you reason to go for the treasure another player has and it would give you reason to explore random islands and care about what you find. As it stands right now, experience is garbage, especially when its tied to voyage turn-ins only.

I personally think 80% is the best for voyage xp completions (cashing in loot making up the remaining 20%). 66% is ok and 50% is just too low (this is only xp you can still lose all your gold). I want 80%+ because I want more people who play PvPvE (like me) to actually fight more often and not just run away. I often run when I have over 8 items and only attack with 3 or less because its not worth it to lose it all.

As for non-voyage items they can stay all xp and gold on cash in as they wouldn't give xp otherwise since they are non-voyage items.

@daveyjay1984

Not the gold, the XP. I don't think you should get any gold for finishing a voyage. You should have to turn in the item for that. I just feel you should earn the XP.

@daveyjay1984
"Why do you think you deserve to be rewarded for not actually finishing the job that you stated you would do."

Let me tell you why. The reward in reputation is for committing and putting the time in. The other reward in gold is for turning in loot. Losing the gold is still a huge blow and isn't an insignificant loss. It still sucks to lose the gold. There are still penalties which hurt. Why not let us have some credit for the hours we put in. Just because you don't care about increasing your reputation doesn't mean others don't. Let everyone be happy, not just you. It's not like it would hurt you in any way because other get reputation still even though you stole their gold. For your so called real life analogy, plenty of jobs pay you regardless of completing a task. You get paid for putting in the time and not the result. Do I need to list them to prove a point? Race car drivers don't have to win the race to get paid, teachers don't have to have all A+ students to get paid, etc. Maybe the gold hoarders are impressed that I put in the time and effort to drive to five islands and look for gold. Maybe they are happy that I was willing to fight until the bitter end to defend the gold I was bringing them. Maybe they value commitment. Do they want someone to rise higher up in their ranks because they know they will go the distance? Maybe they do. Get off your high horse, it's a video game. Not real life. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. It can still be fun for everyone without being so demoralizing.

I like the way it is now in which you receive your "XP" and gold when you hand in your goods. However, there should be some incentive to completing a voyage. Right now there are too many reasons to not complete a voyage. Just do it as a bonus.

@papasohan You had mentioned some disbelief in long "2 hour" chases. I have been involved in 3 marathon attrition battles. Faced off with an equal opponent and the winner is the last one left with cannon balls/planks. I had one last night that was probably the worst. I was teaching some newer (levels 10-15) players the game. We had just finished a Gold Hoarders and had 6 chests aboard. While getting the last chest on we got attacked. We circled, fired, repaired, and repeated for a good 45min until we ran out of cannon balls. I made a decent maneuver getting the wind at our back. The other ship chased us from Mermaid to Aspire! We were able to get 3 of the 6 chests in doing the drive-by. The whole event from starting the voyage to demise lasted close to 3 hours. That's an hour per chest. It just killed the night.
So, yeah, it happens. Not often, but it's a game killer when it does.

How can you seriously request this? The entire point of the voyage is to find and turn in the item to the appropriate faction who are paying you to find and turn in to them the item. You want to get credit for non completion? In what world does that make any sense? If you lose the loot or get sunk or whatever then you failed to complete and should receive zero credit. Makes perfect sense and yet you don’t see it that way? How is that possible ...

@enpixelate I agree 100%

@metrohotness Hello, find this item for us and bring it back and we’ll reward you. What? You found it but then lost it? No problem! Congratulations on at least finding it! Here, take some credit - we appreciate that you at least found it. Haha if that doesn’t sound ridiculous to you ...

I think this is a good suggestion actually. I've been entirely against safezones, but this is a decent trade-off in my opinion.

I could see getting a portion of EXP when you finish, and a portion when you turn in. Only time you can get gold is by turning in though.

I was opposed to this idea the first time it was suggested, but I am beginning to see that it makes sense

@touchdown1504 yes I’ve lost loot on a disconnect, it sucked. But it’s rare. I’ve never lost loot to another ship. I’ve played since the beginning and it’s just way too easy to avoid other ships. Yes if you get caught up on an island searching and don’t have time to check horizons someone can sneak up on you sure. But it is entirely avoidable. Nothing about this game is punishing. If you enjoy playing it then where is the punishment? Ok let’s say you lose loot, a lot of loot, a skull fort worth of loot, ultimately what did you really lose? Time? No because you played and enjoyed your time with the game. You lost loot? Ok so you won’t be able to buy a jacket until next time. Everyone who complains about losing loot or battles I think is just not getting the point. If you’re playing with the goal of advancing then you’re already lost.

Currently it appears that you are awarded Reputation Points for

1. Earning gold
2. Buying voyages

It seems like the current formula is something along the lines of
RepP = Gold Earned + Gold Spent.

I think you should also get rep from completing voyages, i.e. not only for completing voyages, since the OOS or Hoarders want you to finish off their business, but they also want you to actually get the stuff back to them.

I think your RepP for completion should be something along the lines of 10 times the cost of the voyage. E.g. if you complete a 100 gold voyage where you found 1,500 gold in chests, you get 10x100 = 1,000 RepP for completing the voyage, 1,500 RepP + 1,500 gold for turning in the chests.

RepP = Gold Earned + Gold Spent + sum[voyages completed](voyage_cost * 10)

For those that argue that why would anyone want the gold, people would just complete voyage and abandon the gold I have three points and/or fixes.

1. Split the rep - This has been said multiple times but it seems very logical to me and keeps both sides happy.

2. Expensive Upgrades - Rate could always add more expensive things to purchase that you would want more gold to be able to purchase. There are tons of things that you could customize or purchase.

3. True pirate - A pirates fortune is just as important to him as his status. One of the biggest reasons to get a higher rank is to get better voyages to get better loot. The loot is still the end goal. Giving experience with completing voyages does not escape that fact. Everything we do is working towards getting more loot. Losing our plundered booty is ultimately worst than losing the XP in gaining rep, but at least there is some kind of consolation prize this way.

There are a lot of good points to be made but ultimately I feel this will benefit the majority of players from getting fatigue and leaving the game. There just needs to be a discussion on balance. How much rep do you give for completing a voyage and hope much is held back for turning in the loot. I absolutely love this game and can't wait for more content but I still feel like some of the frustration will set in when you feel like you've wasted so much time.

@enpixelate I think somewhere between 70% and 80% rep for voyage completion would be a good number. if it’s too low players are still gonna feel like it was a waste of time. Too high and PvP players feel robbed even though there the ones doing the robbing.

Btw been spreading this topic on the “PvE only servers” threads with a link to this thread and been getting a lot of upvotes. Great idea hopefully Rare will catch on

This is something that is sorely, sorely needed. As others have said, in PvP attackers generally have no risk, and the defenders (generally carrying treasure) risks everything. Awarding XP as portions of the voyage are complete, and/or upon full completion would help to balance the risk/reward.

@honusdan But again, it should not have taken you that long to do that many drive bye turn ins. With 6 chests on board you should have been able to drop off 2-3 at a time at each outpost you passed. I would have done two at a time and used the 3rd person to defend during the turn in. It should have taken 20 minutes tops from the time you decided to stop fighting to the time you decided to just run and try to turn in. Also, did you not have someone on your ship as a lookout? How was another ship able to engage you so easily? You could have turned tail and ran a lot sooner, unless you actually wanted to fight them, too. But that's the choice you made.

@enpixelate A voyage is only completed when you hand over what the vendor asked for.
Would you still pay Amazon if they didn't deliver what you ordered because someone nicked it on the way?

@jackthehammock

Obviously you haven't read this thread. To argue this same point yet again, you get XP in tons of games for doing little tasks regardless of whether you're doing it for someone or they see you do it. Almost every rpg game ever gives you credit for doing tasks such as discovering something or repeatedly doing something, this is the exact same thing. Should I also point out that this is a video game and not real life? If you want to argue realism, how is it that I'm able to eat bananas under water so I don't drown? It doesn't logically make sense but they do it for the sake of the gameplay to make it for enjoyable.

@touchdown1504 I get what you’re saying. However I disagree that the game should be entertaining to everyone who plays. Obviously that’s not possible. The game should be entertaining to those who are entertained by it lol trying to appeal to everyone is not possible. If the developer start changing the game then some others will be alienated by the changes. So at some point the devs decide what game to make, they make it, and those who enjoy it will play it. Those who don’t enjoy it will try to change it but you see how that’s also problematic. But also, it’s so early in this games lifespan that who knows how many game modes and changes will occur down the line. If the player base remains strong then maybe the devs will be able to begin to try and appeal to many who may not have been excited with the original idea. One thing is certain, drastic changes should not be occurring 2 weeks after release lol

You cant get Rep till you hand in the item to the person giving you the gold and Rep ! its Not compete by Digging it up ! its Compete by Turning it in, BUT ... I would Like the Treasures to Lock to your Crew for turn in Once you reach the Outpost, I have had 2 Instances where I am solo and there was No Ships at Outpost and I checked, Landed at dock, grabbed my Gaged chicken, turned One in and as I was climbing back onto my ship I see a Jerk jump off with my 2nd Chicken and turn it in before I could Catch him, and Screw my Quest because Now I am missing one of the 3 I needed. 8( and for a Timed quest like Merchants this can be a Fail on the Quest.