Notoriety System - The Fix for PvP & PvE

@trenix90

If you want the PvE crew behind this, make it so your notoriety drops when you kill a 'friendly' pirate.

Like with Ultima Online, your notoriety could be denoted by the color of your gamer tag..... and better yet..... have that same color as your ships flag.

Sounds like a potential punishment for good players to me. Some noobs attack me, I sink them, now I have a target on my back for defending myself? Seems a bit off.

At least you would win looters on board. Those PvP players who actually value cosmetics. Some of them at least. The rest on the other hand still won't care. Hence we need something more worthwhile. The quality bar needs to rise.

Those players who value PvP purely, they only get their kicks from a challenge. That is basically the only thing they value and what they are here for. Progression doesn't interest them unless it gives an edge at their adversaries somehow. They use every in-game feature to their advantage, exactly or less, but so does the griefers. I think we don't have to worry about trolls as much, but there's an approach to mitigate harm done by their actions too.

So the solution here for these players to really live the daring adventure, and to mitigate harm caused by griefing especially toward those players who are significantly more voyage oriented, devs need to give everyone THE challenge we all need here. This and couple small features that actually have a big impact like matchmaking options, crew details next to brig, removing item showcasing, removing set names and so on.

PvP activities rewarding notoriety which allows some players to gain cosmetics is a nice idea and would work to give more meaning and room to do things.

@trenix90 said in Notoriety System - The Fix for PvP & PvE:

@mythicalfable said in Notoriety System - The Fix for PvP & PvE:

At least you would win looters on board. Those PvP players who actually value cosmetics. Some of them at least. The rest on the other hand still won't care. Hence we need something more worthwhile. The quality bar needs to rise.

Those players who value PvP purely, they only get their kicks from a challenge. That is basically the only thing they value and what they are here for. Progression doesn't interest them unless it gives an edge at their adversaries somehow. They use every in-game feature to their advantage, exactly or less, but so does the griefers. I think we don't have to worry about trolls as much, but there's an approach to mitigate harm done by their actions too.

So the solution here for these players to really live the daring adventure, and to mitigate harm caused by griefing especially toward those players who are significantly more voyage oriented, devs need to give everyone THE challenge we all need here. This and couple small features that actually have a big impact like matchmaking options, crew details next to brig, removing item showcasing, removing set names and so on.

PvP activities rewarding notoriety which allows some players to gain cosmetics is a nice idea and would work to give more meaning and room to do things.

As a PvP player, the cosmetics we get from the shop and from factions are, kinda lame. For example, I don't want to look like a merchant and have a merchant title. PvP cosmetics should be more fearful to players, something I'd personally love to get my hands on.

Those would indeed be cool. I like the items we have, but I don't feel like a notorious pirate wearing Admiral's stuff. They make me feel like a privateer instead. Since when do we need to have all items named anyway? We are not building anything and even in those cases we would usually have names like a chest, stone pickaxe, diamond helmet and the like reflecting the actual materials they are built from or in some cases like ringmail because the mail is made from small rings connected together. Giving items predefined names based on occupation of a wearer who never wore them is a mistake. I would like to get predefined names removed and let players name them instead.

I don't like to be called a merchant either unless I am doing the trade. I can perform trading and I like it up to a point, but there are currently no options to make that choice, to build on top of that, either. The grind is a mistake and NPCs are not real players so there's no economy. It's just a system designed to feed the bottleneck endgame because the devs only focused on the ship and the sea. Hope they address the issues.

@pilks4k said in Notoriety System - The Fix for PvP & PvE:

How will this help? people will just carry on how they are now and with an added bonus of getting Notoriety... People are lazy they will not start avoiding a person after 3 fights if what they want to do is pvp for the sake of pvping and thats the impression most people give on these forums they just want to kill people and sink ships.

Like with all game mechanics, the dirt is in the details.

The premise for a notoriety system (aka player rep system) is sound, but it's how much you gain, how often, against who, that's the fine tuning.

I feel that when any pirates notoriety has become too infamous, they shouldn't be able to attain quest in your standard outposts. There should be a couple outposts where only the most notorious pirates can get quests.

@trenix90 said in Notoriety System - The Fix for PvP & PvE:

I don't believe PvP players kill others just because. There is always a reason and simply to kill someone and waste resources, is hardly ever the reason.

There is a reason, but that same reason is utilised by griefers as well. Issue is that the behaviour required for satisfaction coming from mere killing is similar to griefing with the difference that actual griefers linger around. Those who value pure PvP don't spawncamp others nor tail us, but pursue greater challenges... or at least would if there was a way to indicate the level of challenge.

For example we sank ships on the way in Final Beta, but I wasn't acute enough to tell if we had faced the opposition before or not until it was too late. When we beat them again and again we understood that this crew was the same crew all along. We then looked at their names and verified it to be so. We wasted time with this crew because they didn't know how to face us properly. We gave them lessons, but sadly we didn't find a fitting challenge. Our ship got sunk couple times due my silly mistakes, but still no decent challenge.

Griefers don't care about the challenge because they or at least some of them just want to break players and thorough that the community. Then there are those "whitehat griefers" who merely want to show what's wrong here. They don't get kicks from it coz they feel sad about it, but they keep at it so that devs correct the issue.

@trenix90 said in Notoriety System - The Fix for PvP & PvE:

@stem589 said in Notoriety System - The Fix for PvP & PvE:

@pilks4k said in Notoriety System - The Fix for PvP & PvE:

How will this help? people will just carry on how they are now and with an added bonus of getting Notoriety... People are lazy they will not start avoiding a person after 3 fights if what they want to do is pvp for the sake of pvping and thats the impression most people give on these forums they just want to kill people and sink ships.

Like with all game mechanics, the dirt is in the details.

The premise for a notoriety system (aka player rep system) is sound, but it's how much you gain, how often, against who, that's the fine tuning.

I feel that when any pirates notoriety has become too infamous, they shouldn't be able to attain quest in your standard outposts. There should be a couple outposts where only the most notorious pirates can get quests.

But now you're punishing players for their playstyle. I mean how about when I PvP players, I could also steal some of their gold? Wouldn't be fair would it? These outposts specifically say they don't care where you get the loot from, as long as you complete the quest.

..... where I don't see PvP players congregating around the same areas (outposts) as a bad thing.

If we're all trying to be our own pirate legend, lets get some immersion here! Reputation.... cough...... notoriety, right?

Why is a self proclaimed pirate murderer getting quests from a merchant who needs pigs and chickens? Give them their own quests at different islands and turn ins at their own islands.

I also think outposts should have towers that will fire on anyone who attacks within an outposts. Not a 'safe zone', but a strongly encouraged 'no fire zone'.

I think it would be fun to shoot up a outpost and see if you can make it back to your ship and away before the guards take you out.

Everyone can still do everything they do now, but with limited consequence and far more player customization.

;)

@trenix90 said in Notoriety System - The Fix for PvP & PvE:

@stem589 said in Notoriety System - The Fix for PvP & PvE:

@trenix90

If you want the PvE crew behind this, make it so your notoriety drops when you kill a 'friendly' pirate.

Like with Ultima Online, your notoriety could be denoted by the color of your gamer tag..... and better yet..... have that same color as your ships flag.

In DAoC, same developers I believe, they didn't punish you for killing low levels, but you weren't rewarded with experience either, except loot. That is exactly how I'd like to see it in this game. DAoC had probably the best PvP system in existence. I don't want to punish PvP players. I instead want them to obviously be rewarded, but be rewarded for more meaningful fights.

Killing a PvE player or someone who isn't a fighter, shouldn't really give you notoriety. I mean you're killing a target that doesn't even want to fight. It's bad enough that the PvE player can kill the PvP player and take away their notoriety, but of course there should be cap for that and you will obtain notoriety by doing so. So basically, I want piracy to continue, but PvP would be also be more than just stealing and there would be an incentive to actually do it.

Very different developers. DAoC rewards you in RvR (PvP) zones when you kill someone who is of similar level to you or higher with no reward for those extremely lower. Max level was 50 and players 37+ were free game to 50s, and 36 and under were not as an example. There were safe zones however where people could PvE to their heart's content.

Agreed though, best pvp system ever. Makes me want to keep going back, but alas we must move forward.

@stem589 said in Notoriety System - The Fix for PvP & PvE:

@trenix90 said in Notoriety System - The Fix for PvP & PvE:

@stem589 said in Notoriety System - The Fix for PvP & PvE:

@pilks4k said in Notoriety System - The Fix for PvP & PvE:

How will this help? people will just carry on how they are now and with an added bonus of getting Notoriety... People are lazy they will not start avoiding a person after 3 fights if what they want to do is pvp for the sake of pvping and thats the impression most people give on these forums they just want to kill people and sink ships.

Like with all game mechanics, the dirt is in the details.

The premise for a notoriety system (aka player rep system) is sound, but it's how much you gain, how often, against who, that's the fine tuning.

I feel that when any pirates notoriety has become too infamous, they shouldn't be able to attain quest in your standard outposts. There should be a couple outposts where only the most notorious pirates can get quests.

But now you're punishing players for their playstyle. I mean how about when I PvP players, I could also steal some of their gold? Wouldn't be fair would it? These outposts specifically say they don't care where you get the loot from, as long as you complete the quest.

..... where I don't see PvP players congregating around the same areas (outposts) as a bad thing.

If we're all trying to be our own pirate legend, lets get some immersion here! Reputation.... cough...... notoriety, right?

Why is a self proclaimed pirate murderer getting quests from a merchant who needs pigs and chickens? Give them their own quests at different islands and turn ins at their own islands.

Pirates did engage commerce, but I think NPC merchants are not the way to go here. Becomes quite boring very quickly.

I also think outposts should have towers that will fire on anyone who attacks within an outposts. Not a 'safe zone', but a strongly encouraged 'no fire zone'.

Outpost-specific action-limited bounty system? Engage other players at an outpost too long to get the community of this specific outpost to lay a bounty of your head and deny you from their services on that specific island.

1. As long as the bounty is active, each crew that defeats you gets a reward. First crew to deliver the killing blow also gets your head in a pouch which effectively negates you from materialising properly which means that you end up as a headless ghost on your ship and killing your crew now rewards other crews instead since you are just an apparition. They don't drop a pouch though.

2. Delivery of the pouch to the PvP faction at this specific outpost bestows an additional reward for the crew that carried it there.

3. Other players can steal the pouch. Crew with the bounty target has to help their ghost mate to steal the pouch back, in case one is created, to make themselves materialise properly and continue their voyage of salvation.

4. To get clean, the crew would have to sail to a distant "safe harbour" outpost very far away from the outpost they have the bounty in. This is not a safe zone, but simply a destination in which they are marked okay again. Then they are rewarded for it.

5. Until the crew gets to clear their names, the bounty stays active.

6. If the pouch is created and a crew brings it to the PvP faction on the specific outpost the bounty was laid on, the target mate will materialise again, but the safe harbour is now determined anew, relocated very far away from the location the crew is at instead. The outpost the bounty was laid on cannot become a safe harbour.

This doesn't negate griefing, but makes it a bit more fun for players to endure.