Games Media Says game Needs Options for Less PvP, Passive modes, something

It's a pirate game and the title is "Sea of Thieves" implying that ship over there is going to gank you and take your hard earned stuff. Yeah, I will admit that it can get frustrating, but even solo, if you play smart then it is not nearly as bad as people make it sound. The only major annoying thing I've personally found is the griefing. Like a ship that won't leave you alone despite being sunk a dozen or more times, guys that repeatedly spawn kill you, ECT. Other people have complained about outpost camping, but I've yet to see any. The reality of it is that the uncertainty is supposed to be part of the game. There is supposed to be danger. It doesn't stop because you complete a quest. I do think they should implement a bounty system and incentives to be civil with other pirates. That said not every one is hostile. I've ran into many friendly crews.

Sea of Thieves minus the thives... is just Sea. This isn't a sailing simulator, it's a pirate game where stealing and killing is always a threat.

I think it just comes down to anxiety.. Most people live frustrating, demanding, stressful, anxious lives.. sea of thieves was looking to be a lighthearted fun game that would break the mould. Instead what we have right now is a bit of a gankfest if you end up on a dodgy server..

@nanach said in Games Media Says game Needs Options for Less PvP, Passive modes, something:

Most games that ive heard of that let the community take control of content has ended very badly. Rare has stated in the past this will not happen, and for good reason it will ruin the game for both sides.

Doesn't matter what Rare said in its inception, they had no idea how the game would be recieved at the time.. If the community wants something and will stop playing if the developers don't deliver making their game non-profitable.. they will have to adapt or die.

@natsu-v2

Go on then.

Pfff... If these people had put as many solo hours into the game as I have, they wouldn't be blabbing on about needing passive modes and safe zones etc...

The game needs more content, a whole lot more content, but PvE only servers and safe zones? I think not.

As I've said multiple times in multiple threads, if you have a passive mode with no risk, there should be no rewards; no loot, no reputation etc...

If you want loot and reputation, you're going to have to risk the open seas.*

*Unless you've got lots of Twitch followers, in which case just hook up with them just before they cash in their loot.

NB: For every person voicing their wish for PvE only, there's hundreds out there enjoying the game as is.

@nanach said in Games Media Says game Needs Options for Less PvP, Passive modes, something:

Most games that ive heard of that let the community take control of content has ended very badly. Rare has stated in the past this will not happen, and for good reason it will ruin the game for both sides.

Except Warframe, World of Warcraft and more hugely successful games. Actually I think all Competitive Industry Developers take feedback and apply it to make better games, sell more copies, and retain more players.

Blizzard listens and responds to build success: https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-09-28-blizzards-success-isnt-magic-just-hard-work-and-open-minds

Warframe Devs listen to their Audience: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAUHSLcqhrk

Recently Ubisoft flew players to their studios and listened to feedback and made massive improvements to the Division and Rainbow 6.

This is just a few examples.

@echodoctrine check this article written even before the game was released, they were already worrying about the battle royale the game would spiral into by just looking at the mechanics:

Justin Olivetti  /  Feb 28, 2018

The Daily Grind: Are you concerned about Sea of Thieves’ PvP scene?

Some of the comments on that article:

I feel like at first it will be grief heaven, in fact they’re kind of embracing it. But that might because Rare isn’t an MMO dev, in fact they really haven’t ever made a pure multiplayer game before. So I guess they’ll just enjoy the s***s & giggles while it lasts until they’re forced to end up fixing it I guess.

Sigh – another PvP MMO by people who think ganking is fun. It’s amazing how game designers and producers refuse to see that gankfest games ALWAYS lose money in the end.

It’s almost impossible to get through to designers about ganking because they, the designers, know the game systems inside out, and therefore can automatically ultimo b****s gankers more easily than anyone else.

What surprises me is the sad litany of PvP oriented MMO failures is constantly ignored by the money-men behind MMOs. Those who don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat it, and that’s especially true in games.

It is a concern and one that’s been expressed very regularly on the Sea of Thieves forums. You’ve obviously got the apologists/finger-in-ears kids who’ll go “well I didn’t experience problems like that” or “mate it’s a PvP game get used to it” or so on. But this game has 0 safeguards against people doing their worst. Respawns are also really really bad – if you sink someone’s ship they’ll be able to tirelessly respawn where their ship sunk, all so they can try to board your ship/kill you AND summon a truckton of sharks that makes getting any treasure off of them super difficult.

On top of that spawn killing is a very real problem, and the only bandaid solution is to scuttle the ship. . . but then the ship respawns maybe an island or two away from where it sunk so you can easily chase down the people who sunk it (or they can spot your ship and chase after you again…). Then of course there’s Outpost camping, and in general players who want to be aggressive simply don’t have to have any treasure on board and then they have 0 consequences or risk while having all the reward available. That’s the stupidest part about it right now, is that PvP has meaningless risk/consequence for the attackers/chasers if they get defeated. Losing some chests or whatever doesn’t mean much in the long run because literally anything you do in PvE is designed around getting some objects to sell to one of the reputations to get gold/rep and then buy cosmetics. There is straight up going to be a chunk of players who don’t care about that stuff and will just hunt down other player ships because they can.

I know that they have said repeatedly that what we see in the scale tests and closed beta weren’t the full game at launch, buuuuuuuut they’ve designed this game in a way to where there’s 0 incentive or reason to group with other pirates. Every other ship is straight-up kill or avoid on sight, and that’s it. The PvP experience is quite frankly miserable because it’s not designed in a way that gives you that clear moment of “ah-ha, we have secured victory” or “oh, we have lost, time to respawn the ship and move on”.

Rare’s naivety (or hubris, or straight-up laziness) with their hands-off approach to PvP is just irritating. It’s like they refuse to see how problematic that has been in other games, and somehow they think their community will be better than that. Even with those skeleton forts teased in that video, that’s not going to be enough for people to work together or be friendly/social.

Their efforts to casualize the experience just means that the mindless PvPers get to run over everything because there is literally nothing that stops or punishes them.

@xixxo123 said in Games Media Says game Needs Options for Less PvP, Passive modes, something:

I think it just comes down to anxiety.. Most people live frustrating, demanding, stressful, anxious lives.. sea of thieves was looking to be a lighthearted fun game that would break the mould. Instead what we have right now is a bit of a gankfest if you end up on a dodgy server..

@nanach said in Games Media Says game Needs Options for Less PvP, Passive modes, something:

Most games that ive heard of that let the community take control of content has ended very badly. Rare has stated in the past this will not happen, and for good reason it will ruin the game for both sides.

Doesn't matter what Rare said in its inception, they had no idea how the game would be recieved at the time.. If the community wants something and will stop playing if the developers don't deliver making their game non-profitable.. they will have to adapt or die.

Exactly this: Adapt or Die
Ubisoft could have watched the Division and Rainbow 6 fall apart and lose massive amounts of future revenue, instead they listened to feedback and made changes and now both games have seen massive rises in player engagement, twitch views, spending in game and more.

@lobofh Casuals bring in the money bro.. this is a known fact. Look at WoW, would have died a long time ago if they didn't make it super accesible.. now you can play any way you want.

@nanach said in Games Media Says game Needs Options for Less PvP, Passive modes, something:

@echodoctrine They look at suggestions but weigh the pros and cons and if it fits the theme/core game they had in mind. This topic has been going for a year or more, Rare has never changed their mind.

Never say Never.

Also Microsoft Studios owns them and wants a successful product. They have stated they intend future content and Microtranactions of some form, but they need as many players, viewers and people spending money for that to happen.

Fortnite started as a PvE Horde mode, they tried a Battle Royal for fun and from player feedback and now look how much that game changed.
Star Wars Battlefront 2 changed its price model, DLC structure.

Things change, visions change. Rare has the option to as well.

Also its interesting some folks make such a massive deal out of something as simple as an Option to select Offline or Option to Que the server for a single ship.... Or Rare can choose to resist, tell players no, its not their vision, and see IF all those gamers and Journalists in the Videos above ever play again.

@nanach said in Games Media Says game Needs Options for Less PvP, Passive modes, something:

@echodoctrine They look at suggestions but weigh the pros and cons and if it fits the theme/core game they had in mind. This topic has been going for a year or more, Rare has never changed their mind.

Except for last week of course when they removed the planned death tax due to overwhelming complaints on the forums.

@nanach It doesn't matter if the "real players" as you say leave.. if it means the game stays alive, why would a company purposely kill themselves off to stay true to the product..

This is how almost all businesses that failed to adapt have died.. Nokia, Blockbuster to name a couple.

@nanach said in Games Media Says game Needs Options for Less PvP, Passive modes, something:

adapt and they do die, they will lose most of the all of the testers and players who actually have been watching and playing the game for years. The true fanbase will all leave. The reason we play this game is becuase it is so special with the core game mechanics, take that away and it becomes some avg, nothing, un-interesting game.

And to the majority who didn't play for years it's a very heavy pile of gankfest or borefest. You're going to end up with a tiny core of players.

I love cosmetic microtransactions, I've spent about a thousand if not more in Fortnite alone. I was ready to purchase every single cosmetic for cash there was in SoT when they launch the store.

Of course I won't now after seeing what a repetitive pile of garbage it is.

@xixxo123 said in Games Media Says game Needs Options for Less PvP, Passive modes, something:

@nanach It doesn't matter if the "real players" as you say leave.. if it means the game stays alive, why would a company purposely kill themselves off to stay true to the product..

This is how almost all businesses that failed to adapt have died.. Nokia, Blockbuster to name a couple.

A perfect example. Adapt, listen or be left behind.
I think the massive amount of Forum posts all regarding this topic speak to the interest quite well.

@lobofh said in Games Media Says game Needs Options for Less PvP, Passive modes, something:

@xixxo123 dijo en Games Media Says game Needs Options for Less PvP, Passive modes, something:

@lobofh Casuals bring in the money bro.. this is a known fact. Look at WoW, would have died a long time ago if they didn't make it super accesible.. now you can play any way you want.

No, uniqueness brings in the money. Dark Souls, Bloodborne, NioH, The Surge, Demon's Souls are hard games that stick to a vision and ignore the complains of casual players crying to get hand holding...and were an economic and creative success.

...and Sea of Thieves is not so hard like those games or any other example of the multiplayer survival scene, mind you.

But some guys and journalists don't want to make a minimal damn effort.

"Uniqueness" brings in the Money?

Really how much has Nioh made?
or The Surge....
Demon and Dark Souls I can agree on

But Compare that with Destiny or Call of Duty.....

Destiny and Call of Duty both broke record sales numbers, have Options for solo modes or PvP and Microtranactions to continue making money..
and They are Casual games marketed to get the Largest Audiences possible

@lobofh said in Games Media Says game Needs Options for Less PvP, Passive modes, something:

@echodoctrine all of them were profitable. If a game is only profitable if it gets the number of CoD or GTA then every game except half a dozen mainstream AAA's is a failure.

I am sure that the plans for SoT are more modest. More middle class than crazy best sellers.

BTW, CoD and Destiny are NOT casual games. You really need to understand the meaning of casual.

COD and Destiny are not games Casuals buy.....
wait what?

next you will tell me Minecraft and Fortnite are not casual games

A couple days ago a crew mate and I on a sloop lost enough treasure to fill up the skeleton fort vault probably 3 times. The galleon we were fighting took over 125 cannon balls and still survived. We sank from a small hole that I was unaware of in the midst of cannon fire and repeated attempts at boarding; and you know what, its ok its a pirate game. Sometimes I attack people sometimes I don't depends on how they act and sometimes on how I feel.

If you don't like pvp you probably knew this before you bought the game. The game isn't even non stop pvp like some make it out to be, its intermittent if anything. Most of the combat can be totally avoided by watching whats going on around you. So when people complain about something that was stated as being in the game I really don't even know what to say.

Make suggestions about items, sure. Giving feedback on how to fix something that's broken about combat, np. Buy a pvp game and complain it has pvp, no... just no.

Small community with heart and soul or huge mainstream community?

Pick your poison.

@v**a-hombre

My issue is that i don't have very long to play the game each day.. Working full time, house and bills to pay.. i get an hour or so at best a few nights a week. I've had far too many sessions of being instantly ganked by teams straight after booting up the game.. unable to complete a single voyage without having to turn and run for the entirety of my alloted playtime.

@finanzminister Huge mainstream community.. at least then we will see what this game can be capable of.. If there is only a small community with heart it wont last a year.. And either Epic keeps revenue coming in to support the online servers.. (can't be done if they p**s everyone off who then leaves) or they create what a lot of people want anyway.. a PVE only option.