This massive issue people keep mentioning

  • Inbred Chimera

    I'm seeing one complaint more frequently than any other. The respawning. Its poor design, but poor still that it has not yet been fixed. I'm sure some of you not been on the losing end of this and aren't worried about it because it hasn't effected your experience, but it's still a massive issue, even just in principle.

    We all know extening the respawn range of ships will make a massive difference. That's simple. It should have been obvious to the developers long ago.

    I'm just wondering what we've heard so far about how they are addressing this issue. I've had a quick look around the forum and can't see anything on it. I've heard a few users say they are 'looking at the issue' but that's as good as speculation right now.

    Because launching with this terrible system would suggest to me that player experience is not their priority. I'm not getting the game until I know this has been fixed and if that takes 3 months, I may not get it at all. Like a lot of potential players, I'm giving them a lot of leeway for launch, I'm going to wait and see what the game's got and so long as there's the kraken and the 3 guilds i'm happy to invest and get playing.

    But launching with fundamental flaws in design, that's just amateur. And forgive me if i'm wrong but RARE are new to multiplayer-centric games. My concerns are elevated by the very shortsighted brig system, and the floating nameplates (not overly immersive or justifiable in my opinion, there are better alternatives and it damages both the immersion and the stealth capacity of the game).

    So what have we heard? Has anyone heard anything solid about their plans to deal with this? Masses of players generates income, but its the smaller number of more discerning players that are going to bring the game to life and put effort into the community and spirit of the game.

    I apologise that this is a point that been made hundreds of times, but that's why it concerns me that it's still being made. We're not flogging a dead horse, the horse is just sleeping and the whip is too small. They will change this because they have to, but are they going to launch with it?

    TL/DR
    Have we any solid news or reports on the terrible respawn system being corrected for launch?

    RESPONSE: khaleesibot kindly came along to clear this up for us with a confirmation that the system IS being changed and they aim to do so as soon as possible. No guarantee of it being done for launch but as soon as possible afterwards is confirmed.

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  • Tre Oni
    Marauder
    Insider
    Founder

    Didn't you literally just comment on a thread with basically the exact same sentiment for this exact same issue, like 4 minutes ago?

    C'mon man..

    I get the concern, but do we need even more of this?

  • dark shadow9056
    Captain

    @inbred-chimera Hey mate

    If you see there’s already a big discussion on a topic, why not head over there and add your opinions? The mods are trying to keep the forums clean with less similar posts. Also it lets devs see all your opinions in one place. :)

  • Inbred Chimera

    @dark-shadow9056 I'm not convinced they are actually. I'm fairly sure they've given up, much as I would in their situation. The swaths of reposted threads are unending and trying to stem the flow would be like trying to damn a river with a plank and nails. Since I couldn't find a more relevant thread, I just stuck it in here. At the very worst someone could direct me to my answer and the thread could be abandoned.

  • Tre Oni
    Marauder
    Insider
    Founder

    @inbred-chimera @thejolirouge said in Hoping this "Game Breaker" situation be changed:

    If people are figuring out where respawns are – that is a number we can tweak. Maybe we spawned killed players in that particulate place because it's close to their voyage, but we could push them further away to prevent repeated griefing, for example. All of these sorts of things we wanted to address by running a closed beta.

    Moving respawns further away sounds like a good plan. We certainly experienced situations where we were able to kill enemy crews multiple times after stealing their chests. We joked about how we'd caused them to cancel pre-orders. Sure, it felt like fun for us, but it did make me wonder how unforgiving it might be for others.

    For you to feel great in a multiplayer game, there has to be someone on the losing end. It just has to feel like a story for them, that they can bounce back. We always believed in the potential revenge story – you do that to someone, but we'll give them enough time to regroup so they can come back and get revenge.

    Source: Interview with Mike Chapman (Design Director), February 13th

  • dark shadow9056
    Captain

    @inbred-chimera said in This massive issue people keep mentioning:

    @dark-shadow9056 I'm not convinced they are actually. I'm fairly sure they've given up, much as I would in their situation. The swaths of reposted threads are unending and trying to stem the flow would be like trying to damn a river with a plank and nails. Since I couldn't find a more relevant thread, I just stuck it in here. At the very worst someone could direct me to my answer and the thread could be abandoned.

    Well at least if you don’t repost you won’t be contributing to the cluster :)
    It’s like saying who cares about pollution since the earth is already polluted.

  • Inbred Chimera

    @tre-oni I don't see your point. This is a thread and I'm asking a question. That was a post and I was making a statement.

    I hate to see clogging of the forum, but it is clogged, and it's clearly not going to clear up any time before release. At best your observation is as pointless as my thread, but i'm actually asking a question to which I have not yet seen an answer.

    If it were down to me the entire forum would be respawn and brig complaints. Ideas are fun, but the game shouldn't risk launching with design flaws in my opinion, and I feel that needs to be emphasized since there seems to be no solid confirmation that this is being addressed.

    I say purely because I would like this game to succeed, and i'd consider it a massive risk to launch with these issues. I care about the other players and it upsets me to see someone lose 4+ hours of in game progress due to an issue with the games design. For me that would be one of those situations where you put the game down and realy have to consider if you want to sink any more time into a game that will do that to you.

  • Le Joli Rouge
    Marauder
    Insider

    @inbred-chimera said in This massive issue people keep mentioning:

    TL/DR
    Have we any solid news or reports on the terrible respawn system being corrected for launch?

    I'm not convinced they are actually. I'm fairly sure they've given up, much as I would in their situation. The swaths of reposted threads are unending and trying to stem the flow would be like trying to damn a river with a plank and nails. Since I couldn't find a more relevant thread, I just stuck it in here. At the very worst someone could direct me to my answer and the thread could be abandoned.

    Well, here is a thread I made with a revelant explanations on how Rare is dealing with this mechanic, as well as a few others:
    What we already know on PVP mechanics, respawn, death penalty, safe zones and cosmetics

  • Coloridium

    @tre-oni said in This massive issue people keep mentioning:

    @inbred-chimera @thejolirouge said in Hoping this "Game Breaker" situation be changed:

    If people are figuring out where respawns are – that is a number we can tweak. Maybe we spawned killed players in that particulate place because it's close to their voyage, but we could push them further away to prevent repeated griefing, for example. All of these sorts of things we wanted to address by running a closed beta.

    Source: Interview with Mike Chapman (Design Director), February 13th

    I was gonna post the same thing but you were way faster :D

  • Inbred Chimera

    @dark-shadow9056 sort of, yeah, if my contribution to pollution was C02 and salt. Unlike "another 30 chest ideas that won't be balanced / have already been mentioned' my post has a point. We could all just not post at all and solve the problem. But i'd rather post something relevant and push something not overly concerning out the way, at least until launch.

  • Soda Jack
    Founder

    What I am seeing is a 3 death limit on PvP encounters when playing solo. Once a player reaches 3 deaths, they are respawned on a different server. Which is fine with me, I certainly want a fair chance at retaliation and treasure recovery if I die.

    I dont know how it works on a full crew though. However, there should absolutely be retaliation and recovery possibilities in this game.

  • DeAshkiin
    Marauder
    Insider

    @inbred-chimera I actually haven't seen this issue as well spelled out as ion here and given there is yet to be an actual response to the actual problem for this long ... Well, I'd say it's appropriate.

    @Tre-Oni That is both old and unhelpful. Specially given how old it is and not even that very basic thing has been changed. We're getting ridiculously close to launch and nothing has been said (that I know off, would like someone to actually prove me wrong by answering OP) or done.

    More than anything related to content or progression, this is what will decide the game's population weeks after launch.

  • Inbred Chimera

    @tre-oni Thanks for this, but if its all we have then I remain concerned. It seems like a very jovial attitude towards the issue, and there are a lot of maybes and 'we'll look at it' sort of suggestions.

    Based on that statement I'm not at all convinced it would be addressed by launch. He mentions that someone has to be a loser, but doesn't acknowledge that both the winner and the loser should not be losers, and that actually the winner should win, unanimously. It's almost the person making that statement has not played the game. Thanks for posting that though, better than nothing.

  • Inbred Chimera

    @soda-jack Really? Are you sure? that seems like terrible design....I didn't think they'd ever consider moving instances as a result of dying, like you say it completely removes any chance of vengeance... that's something I look forward to.

  • Soda Jack
    Founder

    @inbred-chimera said in This massive issue people keep mentioning:

    @soda-jack Really? Are you sure? that seems like terrible design....I didn't think they'd ever consider moving instances as a result of dying, like you say it completely removes any chance of vengeance... that's something I look forward to.

    3 lives is fair.

  • Vertabreaker26
    Rogue

    This is a dead issue...If anyone read the forums they would have seen posts WEEKS ago by the devs saying it was a known issue and something they were absolutely working on. Finding the right balance of how far away to respawn the ship is the sweet spot. Don't want to force the losers of the engagement to respawn on the opposite side of the map, needing a 10minute sail time back to the voyage area....They also posted about water spawning and being camped. Betas are for these reasons exactly....fix whats not working. Just chill and enjoy a great game.

  • Le Joli Rouge
    Marauder
    Insider

    Why don't you try to wait for the next final beta, or better, the launch, before getting so much concerned about it ? Xbox Game Pass allow you to play 14 days for free, even on PC, so you won't even have to pay a thing to make yourself an idea. Otherwise, you'll have Twitch streams that will do it for you ;)

    We know they are working on it. The jovial attitude has nothing to do to their professionalism, and there is no terribly dramatic deal in the mechanic we experimented during the beta — which was an old version of the game with some temporary systems, I remind. I survived the scale tests 3 times and I'm the worst player ever!

  • Inbred Chimera

    @soda-jack The number of lives isn't too cruical, its the consequence of loss. Moved to a new instance? that's harsh. That's 0 chance for revenge. You can destroy people and not have to worry about grudges or revenge at all.

    Player relationships will struggle to develop in game because of the constant migration of players. Afterall, someone has to lose engagements.

  • PapaSohan

    @inbred-chimera We've already been told that the death mechanic seen in the beta is not going to be the same at launch. Save your respawn qualms til then.

  • Inbred Chimera

    @vertabreaker26 Well, rather than me sift through weeks worth of posts I thought i'd just ask the community and gamble on someone actually being helpful. They haven't fixed what's not working and I haven't seen any evidence so far of them 'absolutely working on'' the issue. What i've read just now seems more like they want to sound like they're working on it, but are specifically aoiding making any promises.

    @TheJolirouge Unlike yourself I am concerned about the success of this game and refuse to take a 'let's just leave it to the devs and hope they nail it' attitude. A chef can cook for 40 years and make a mistake. A mountain climber can fall and die on his thousandth climb. A game developer can definately mess up their first attempt at a new type of game. This is why I am concerned now, and not once the game releases and the masses make their judgements of it.

    Also you claim 'we know they are working on it'. How? If you'd be so kind as to direct me to the source of this knowledge, I'd very much appreciate it. Though, working on something and fixing them are two very different things regardless. What i'm asking for is if we've seen a 'yes, it will be sorted for launch.' statement.

  • CoyoTe4711
    Captain
    Founder

    why is everybody freaking about issues being fixed on release?! you guys know how patches and hotfixes work right? what if the damn game isnt 'balanced' at release? will the damn world end? nope! will the game be utter s***e? certainly not! will they adjust certain issues after release? i bet they will!

    ppl throw around the term 'balanced' alot these days. you guys know how balance works right? its never perfect cause that would make it obsolete. balance is never perfect cause it simply cant be perfect, its about countering movement and dynamics. and thats actually a good thing, cause it makes sure that things evolve and dont just stay a certain way once its deemed perfect. it keeps a game in shape and keeps it dynamic. so balancing things is a necessity in games and its good that its done and it should be seen as a constant process - its like maintaining the game not just finishing it and leaving it as is.

    so yes, i love to see the game being balanced all the time, before release and after, go ahead rare, balance the s**t outa this game. and pls keep doing it until the day this game ceases to exist cause you got it perfect.

  • DeAshkiin
    Marauder
    Insider

    @vertabreaker26 said in This massive issue people keep mentioning:

    This is a dead issue...If anyone read the forums they would have seen posts WEEKS ago by the devs saying it was a known issue and something they were absolutely working on. Finding the right balance of how far away to respawn the ship is the sweet spot. Don't want to force the losers of the engagement to respawn on the opposite side of the map, needing a 10minute sail time back to the voyage area....They also posted about water spawning and being camped. Betas are for these reasons exactly....fix whats not working. Just chill and enjoy a great game.

    I read and had not seen this at all. What did they say about water spawning and is there any exact measure that has been taken regarding ship distance as well?

  • StafyLocok

    @inbred-chimera I tried myself to start a megathread about it here

    Apparently, this wasn't interesting enough at the time.

    Still agree with you though, the respawn system is highly flawed

    Staf'

  • Le Joli Rouge
    Marauder
    Insider

    @inbred-chimera a dit dans This massive issue people keep mentioning :

    Also you claim 'we know they are working on it'. How? If you'd be so kind as to direct me to the source of this knowledge, I'd very much appreciate it. Though, working on something and fixing them are two very different things regardless. What i'm asking for is if we've seen a 'yes, it will be sorted for launch.' statement.

    I've already link the post earlier, but here are the quotes from Design Director Mike Chapman :

    Moving respawns further away sounds like a good plan. We certainly experienced situations where we were able to kill enemy crews multiple times after stealing their chests. We joked about how we'd caused them to cancel pre-orders. Sure, it felt like fun for us, but it did make me wonder how unforgiving it might be for others.

    For you to feel great in a multiplayer game, there has to be someone on the losing end. It just has to feel like a story for them, that they can bounce back. We always believed in the potential revenge story – you do that to someone, but we'll give them enough time to regroup so they can come back and get revenge.

    If it's not clearly telling that they already rethinked the system (and it was on February 13th) I don't know what you need ?

  • DeAshkiin
    Marauder
    Insider

    @coyote4711 The game is quite nicely balanced just horribly designed in this particular aspect. A somewhat simple one at a glance that they seem to be dodging.

    What I don't get is the need to be so defensive about this issue everytime it's brought up. I don't think hot-fixes and patches are meant to solve obvious issues with core game design in any game. And launching as it is would have an obvious impact on both the games population and health

  • QuietPup6938743
    Ship Mate

    @inbred-chimera I think the issue they're encountering with moving the ships too far away is that if you're on a voyage and get sunk they don't want you to have to cross the entire map to do your quest. That'd be my guess anyway. But I take a little issue with sinking someone and having them return before their chests even float to the surface. I don't think it's quite the easy fix everyone thinks it is. There's numerous effects on gameplay as well, like a chance for revenge.

  • DeAshkiin
    Marauder
    Insider

    @suicidal-will I don't think you need to go that far.. Just slightly more than outside of sight (taking into consideration the other ships current movement) would fix it imo.

    At that point you need to know where you were and pay attention as to where they were heading before dying/spawning if you want revenge. Giving them just enough time to try to run away and actually making it gratifying if you do manage to catch and beat them

  • QuietPup6938743
    Ship Mate

    @deashkiin That's a lot of complicated coding, really not possible with the current state of the game. Would also require linking of fault to the ship that sunk you, also not possible with the current state of the game as sinking is not a direct result of another ship or player.

    I honestly can't think of a way to fix it that is without faults.

  • Vertabreaker26
    Rogue

    @Inbred-Chimera
    It was just another mega thread I came across the other day. Someone carefully gathered all the devs responses to these issues. As for the water spawn camping...I did NOT hear an exact statement as to whats happening. Closest ive heard is that some of the issues were people loading in white screen, and showing up in game to others before they could see anything themselves. Allowing easy K.O.s since you cant see it coming. That was a bug supposedly. As long as they simply make you spawn right next to the mermaid with no white screen delay, there should be NO reason you cant click to escape. My very first time in this game was a solo sail, wanted to figure out the controls. Ran into another sloop and then a galley shows up. After death I spawned in the water to the galley camping overtop and snipers shots flying by my face. I made it to the mermaid ez pz 4v1. Granted...sometimes you might not. I'm sure these will be tweaked over time as the player base grows. But you must take the bad with the good, and this game IMO has far, FAR, more good times than bad.

  • DeAshkiin
    Marauder
    Insider

    @suicidal-will not sure I understand why. Currently you spawn at a distance that is literally just before sight limit of where you were. Just calculate how far a ship could go in amount of seconds it takes to spawn (even easier after water spawning is fixed) and add that to an already slightly increased distanced. You get the new value which you use for all ship spawns. Seems pretty easy

  • Aprovoked Mango
    Insider
    Founder

    The spawning is a concern that is clearly being acknowledged by the devs with the mega threads made available (namely pve/pvp). Its also come up in interviews about there awareness of it. Now will they act on it before launch? I thoroughly hope so and I believe there could be some changes and await data on those.

    With all that said, will you see it any change of the stress tests/betas - No. Why? Because theyre different builds to the released product (pretend theyre 1.0 and the release build is 1.1) and at this close to launch its almost guaranteed there isnt time to be adjusting 1.0 when 1.1 is being released in days thus all feedback is being taken on board, whether its seen at launch or not will obviously remain to be seen but yes spawning is the biggest concern on the entire game and is most definitely something that will be high on the priority list of feedback adjustment.

  • DeAshkiin
    Marauder
    Insider

    @vertabreaker26 that's a very strange excuse and I don't think you understand the major problem. Say you actually took down the Galleon and have their chests floating. Think you can beat them with infinite spawn in order to take their chests? No. You will die very soon. They will sink your ship and hide their chests as someone goes to the get their new ship. There's no victory to the victor.

    This is my personal opinion and unfortunately I don't get to test it ofc, if you're in a galleon and you died before it sank - you get to spawn in the water. If you die after it starts sinking - you spawn with new ship.

    In a sloop is where the testing would be useful (which it should have been done already btw, ence the worrisome situation). It seems to me one spawn after sinking would be needed for balancing though, specially if they want to keep the hiding chests dynamic. Which they should imo

  • DeAshkiin
    Marauder
    Insider

    @aprovoked-mango That's what's strange to me. Why not use these tests since they've been aware for so long? Sure, now it's more than too late but it wasn't always so. It makes me think they're either without solution, unconcerned (at least appropriately) or inventing something way too complicated misjudging the issue

  • l2l HAVOK l2l
    Founder

    @inbred-chimera So long as they have the Kraken and 3 guilds Im ready to invest and start playing? You do realize a few lines before you said that you said your not gonna get the game if the respawn system isn't fixed l**o so whats the real problem here?

  • QuietPup6938743
    Ship Mate

    @deashkiin Seems easy, but it's not. That distance is critical to Rares' vision for encounters. I don't think the map is quite big enough for that to really help. You'd be placed in sight of someone most likely either way. unless they aimed spawns around the outer rim of the map at islands, so you'd always spawn with the island obstructing view. I don't like that either though for reasons.

    I'm happy enough as is, I'd rather wait and see how it develops after launch before complaining about it or demanding a fix.

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