Not a real pirate game if you can't steal from ships

  • svetli97
    Seafarer

    Don't you think that it is a bit weird how in a pirate game you can't really be a pirate at all because there are no ships to steal from. Of course there are other pirates but stealing from them is not really piracy. And I don't think there will be that many people doing the trading missions so being a pirate in this game would be practically impossible. Additionally you don't encounter other pirates that often so even if you argue that stealing from pirates is piracy it is still not the main point of the game.

    At the moment one of the main parts of the game is digging up treasure whereas real pirates are the ones who put the treasure there. It would make sense if we were the ones trying to hide our treasure from the other players while acquiring it by stealing from NPC ships. It wouldn't be that hard for you to implement this. You already have relatively good AI you just need to make NPCs that can use different parts of a ship. It's enough to teach them to move from outpost to outpost or from map edge to map edge.

    Another fun mechanic would be NPC pirate hunters and escorts for the NPC ships that will start to appear more and more as you steal from the NPC trading ships.

    In general you want the game to be about piracy but there is barely any piracy in it. You already have all the game mechanics to transform it into a pirate game. I don't want you to remove the concept of digging up treasure from past pirates but it would be cool of you could dig up the treasure of other players as well (maybe by limiting the amount of gold a player can carry and if he exceeds it he can put it in a chest and hide it somewhere). Creating the riddle type instructions for hiding treasure wouldn't be that hard since it looks like you are already automatically generating those so you can simply let the player select which objects in the world the players should interact with to solve the riddle and find the treasure. Of course you will have to add a few more things to the game like map storage on a ship and in the inventory so that if you kill a player carrying a map that shows where a treasure hidden by a player is he drops it or you can steal it from his ship. You will also have to keep the hidden chests always in the server where the player holding the map is. There should probably also be a place at the outposts where you will have to deliver the maps to claim them so that people wouldn't be able to just jump on your ship, take your maps and instantly disconnect leaving you with no way of reclaiming them.

    Sorry for the long post.

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  • TheMacmurdock
    Master

    Hi there

    That would be an amazing idea.
    I love that treasure seeking,and if we could solve riddles from other players and try to find their treasure....AWESOME!!!

  • Barnacle Remson
    Marauder
    Insider
    Founder

    @svetli97
    I See you studied Piracy on the Pirates University of piratery.

  • TheMacmurdock
    Master

    @barnacle-remson said in Not a real pirate game if you can't steal from ships:

    @svetli97
    I See you studied Piracy on the Pirates University of piratery.

    lol

  • Emanuel Wynnn
    Master
    Insider

    Splendid idea.

    I've always been thinking about a concept like this.
    Where you have npc controlled merchant ships sailing the seas, which you can board, plunder, or steal and sell for profit, if you succeed in defeating the escort militia onboard that is.

  • GreenSwede

    I see you mentioned stealing maps from other players and I think that would definitely be a good idea. I'm surprised that it's not implemented yet, but then of course it might become a thing in the full game depending on what Rare got up their sleeves.

  • Rildan

    No thanks. You may as well make the game single player only at that point. All ships should be player controlled. And i don't want to spend an hour trying to find and chase after another ship just to find it's an NPC when i finally get to it.

  • svetli97
    Seafarer

    @rildan so what do you gain from fighting another pirate ship? You sink them and then what? You win nothing. If you have chests on your ship you could lose them. But I've almost never encountered another pirate ship that had loot on it. What's the point of sinking a ship if you don't gain anything from it?

  • Vaca Hombre
    Champion
    Boatswain
    Founder

    While I'm not necessarily against your ideas, I do feel I need to point out that SoT is very much entrenched in the fantasy side of piracy. It dabbles in realism here and there, but in terms of factual content, I feel it passes Pirates of the Caribbean and is actually within easy reach of Muppet Treasure Island levels.

    Again, not dismissing any of your ideas, just reminding that any added game mechanics should probably be more focused on fun than historical accuracy.

  • E0SE
    Rogue
    Insider

    Npc's will kill the point of the game stop being Xbox players and start trying to think outside if the dumb Xbox. Dayz would be dead and pointless (even more so then what the devs did to it) with npc's to loot around the map, pubg pointless, fortnight pointless, ark, pointless. The point of these types of games, which I know is hard for Xbox players to grasp. Isn't to add more npc's it needs to be a way to add more reasons for players to interact. I agree there needs to be more. Something. But adding npcs isnt the way. The point is when you rarely see a ship you know its someone else. You known you can either run or fight or maybe even work together. There needs to be better missions on stealing. Maybe random sunken treasure ships around the map that will pop up for everyone and you can try to go loot it, and it will have a lot of gold and a lot of special weapons and gear. I also think they do need to add special options for you ship maybe thing you unlock by doing these risky missions that everyone on the map can see. Like you can have special wood that your ship is made out of to make it harder to sink, but makes it slower, or things like that. Or else you end up with a game as wide as the ocean but only a inch deep. I don't fully have an opinion on the game yet. I do know they need to add more. But as for playability its fun!! I enjoy it and will play it for hours! Will it keep me coming back for weeks/ months no sure I hope so!

  • Rildan

    @svetli97 You mean why PVP? Because it's fun. And my intention isn't to sink it. Usually i'll try to jump their ship and then take as much resources i can.

  • Rildan

    @e0se said in Not a real pirate game if you can't steal from ships:

    Npc's will kill the point of the game stop being Xbox players and start trying to think outside if the dumb Xbox. Dayz would be dead and pointless (even more so then what the devs did to it) with npc's to loot around the map, pubg pointless, fortnight pointless, ark, pointless. The point of these types of games, which I know is hard for Xbox players to grasp. Isn't to add more npc's it needs to be a way to add more reasons for players to interact. I agree there needs to be more. Something. But adding npcs isnt the way. The point is when you rarely see a ship you know its someone else. You known you can either run or fight or maybe even work together. There needs to be better missions on stealing. Maybe random sunken treasure ships around the map that will pop up for everyone and you can try to go loot it, and it will have a lot of gold and a lot of special weapons and gear. I also think they do need to add special options for you ship maybe thing you unlock by doing these risky missions that everyone on the map can see. Like you can have special wood that your ship is made out of to make it harder to sink, but makes it slower, or things like that. Or else you end up with a game as wide as the ocean but only a inch deep. I don't fully have an opinion on the game yet. I do know they need to add more. But as for playability its fun!! I enjoy it and will play it for hours! Will it keep me coming back for weeks/ months no sure I hope so!

    This.
    About the sunken treasure ships i believe they are already in the game. At least i found a half sunken one with the tip above the surface. I dove down and explored and there was a treasure inside in the bottom deck :D

  • Cyberlith

    @svetli97 Your post in general highlights the main problem I have with the game - not enough content.

    Honestly I don't even know what the point of this game is.

  • GreenSwede

    @cyberlith I don't think it's fair to judge the game's content from the scale tests/early beta tests alone. In the full game there will be more quests to do and more content will be added post launch, things like ship customization for instance.

  • svetli97
    Seafarer

    @cyberlith As far as I understand it the point of the game is to just mess around. It's a sandbox game. You could compare it to Minecraft in that it is also a sandbox game. There are things that will give you some general directions or options for things to do when you have no idea what you want to do next but the main point is that you can do whatever you want.

  • Saltyzar

    @cyberlith the point is to mess around with friends acting all piraty. It's an advanced party game. I love it but if you don't this game just isn't for you.

  • svetli97
    Seafarer

    @greenswede ship customization makes your ship look better but it doesn't change how the game is played.

  • svetli97
    Seafarer

    @v**a-hombre My point is to make it more fun. Will you be willing to dig up treasure for hundreds of hours on the same tiny map?

  • GreenSwede

    @svetli97 True, and that's how Rare wants to design the game. While a lot of people clearly want a progression system which gives them better things, Rare does not want players to have better weapons, ships than anyone else in terms of stats. It's all skill based, which I like personally.

  • svetli97
    Seafarer

    @e0se I'm a pc player.

  • CoyoTe4711
    Captain
    Founder

    @svetli97

    stealing from other pirates is not piracy? 0_0 what a disappointement, I was pretty sure I was pirating. maybe if I do it in the name of the king I am sheriffing.

  • svetli97
    Seafarer

    @coyote4711 Let me explain this in a way that you might understand. Do people who steal steal from other people who do so or do they steal from people who don't do so? There is a reason why only one of the options is true.

  • Zalavaaris
    Marauder

    I don't think there needs to be npc ships all over the place. But kind of like skeleton fort raids it would be cool to see a large treasure ship spawn that has routes it can take. Then pirates fight over the treasure. The ship will obviously be much larger than our ships (with more cannons!). It could even be escorted by two sloops on each side requiring multiple pirates to take down. And again, these won't be all over the place making it a single player game. They will be events that take place. Like an alternative raid.

  • CoyoTe4711
    Captain
    Founder

    @svetli97

    Stealing from someone who stole, is still stealing, savy?!

  • RareBabySteaks
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    Beta. Thats all im saying

  • svetli97
    Seafarer

    @rarebabysteaks do you really think they will change that in the future? I don't.

  • ArecBalrin
    Ship Mate

    We all know what a true Pirate Legend would do.

  • NateDem
    Commander
    Insider
    Founder

    @cyberlith its in Beta. So yeah more content to come and long into the future is what the plan is I believe. Just don't expect "loot crates"! Ha ha! It's a game for gamers, not just for business.
    This process is a bit different from going buying a game in the shop and wanting it to be the best, til you're bored and play the next new release from someone else.
    Lots of us have been helping this game with feedback and play sessions. I'm excited and have no doubts that this will be a great game considering it's development process.
    If you have ideas for content like this thread, (I kinda like the player created treasure map idea, but maybe loosing chests as well as maps could be quite frustrating) keep em coming it may just make it in some day. ;)

  • Program 024
    Founder

    @svetli97 You know, I don't see much purpose in being able to bury treasure. If you want to stash treasure, you can simply stow it amongst the bushes or in caves on islands. Usually it is for the short term. As in you are about to be chased so you hide your treasure on the island and come back when the danger is passed.

    The only circumstance where burying the treasure would be justifiable in my eyes is if you are very far away from an outpost and you see a chest on an island just sitting there but you don't want to risk carrying too much. You bury it, get the map, and come back later.

    Now Rare's position on NPC ships is quite well known. The main motivation behind that decision I think is related to AI programming. It isn't that Rare is incapable of making an AI for ship movement, but rather Rare doesn't feel it to be worth it to develop an AI that even remotely comes close to player simulation. And for an AI to become even close to what a player may do, since unpredictability is key here, significant resources need to be allocated which may be better used elsewhere. Computers are significantly better at being predictable than unpredictable.

    My last point is that there could be plenty of lore reasons why there are not any NPC ships out and about. If you look at the islands, specifically those who show obvious signs of settlement like in the Sea O' Plenty, you also may notice that they are obviously old to some degree. Houses have fallen in or rotted away. You have fortifications out in The Wilds that are not manned in addition to the many wrecks. There are sculptures and monuments in The Ancient Isles that have no visible author. Outposts are sparsely populated.

    Perhaps something happened to the previous inhabitants that depopulated the region? Perhaps we and those at the outposts are the first to arrive after this unknown calamity? And after such a cataclysm, who would want to go back? Who would go to a place that is clearly cursed and mostly populated by vengeful skeletons?

    That would be us. The thieves and risk takers. Going where the law won't go to make our fortune. Taking advantage of the misfortune of others to make a name for ourselves. You know, piratey things.

  • Vaca Hombre
    Champion
    Boatswain
    Founder

    @svetli97 said in Not a real pirate game if you can't steal from ships:

    @v**a-hombre My point is to make it more fun. Will you be willing to dig up treasure for hundreds of hours on the same tiny map?

    Oh, I'm sure that's your intention. It wouldn't have been as well thought out if not. I was more just giving a general reminder since I've seen the "it's not realistic" excuse used rather cavalierly in the past. Especially in a game that has only a passing acquaintance with realism in the first place.

    As for me, yeah, I probably would be mostly fine with that. I'm not sure I'd call the map tiny, but I see what you mean. Of course, I fully admit that I seem to be easier to please than your average gamer. I see other people's criticisms of games I've played and agree with them; but was just never that bothered by it.

    Don't get me wrong, I'll always be a fan of more content. But if all we got was what's already been announced, I'd still probably pour hundreds of hours into it.

    Probably a good thing most people ARE more critical than I am, since that's how games actually improve. :D

  • E0SE
    Rogue
    Insider

    @svetli97 Thumbs up for Pc player, I think that they need to dive more into ocean lore. I think it would be cool to do raids on skely forts/ maybe like a ghost ship that will appear and have a charted route that you and everyone can see would be fine, But to do micro npc ships meh.. not really that cool, I think what they need to do is implement more intensives to do things like why do I want to look for treasure vs being a trader and getting chickens? which would say create reasons to attack trade routes. give me a intensive to go after things. I get what they are trying to do with like all ships are equal and all wepons are equal but in real life it isnt always the case. Like I was saying about adding different types of wood to the ship that may make it slower but a little less likely to take on water from hitting rocks or a single cannon shot. and maybe you can only get this special wood from doing trade missions or attacking a trade ship that has it.

  • E0SE
    Rogue
    Insider

    @Rildan yeah, I've seen them, My only problem is it seems everything is only surface level. hopeful I'm wrong! you find a wreck and get only a small amount of gold to use for somewhat better rungs and different play things. but I would like to see things that are a little deeper than surface level. What I mean by random sunken ships is more of like a Server things, Like everyone will get some sort of ping on the map, (In a more pirate way than just ping sunken ship) or like you just get a general area where this ship maybe and you have to try to search for it, And on that ship there will be a good reason to look other than just because you get one chest. I think the came is lacking intensive. at the moment it may seem to be just as deep as like a PUBG is or day z. Nothing else to do other than kill each other.

  • E0SE
    Rogue
    Insider

    @apocacide ugh that will be awesome! Say what you want about PUBG (I dislike the game due to the fact that its not actually a game) but how do you think the meeting would of went if someone would of pitched that to xbox or PlayStation? They would of said get out of our office. But yet pubg has made millions and now even GTA is trying to make a little cash of that. Happens countless of times on early accsess. Can you name me a game that Xbox or PlayStation has green lit that they didn't just play it say on? That has went on to make crazy amount of money and destroy records? No. Right didn't think so. Just keep sucking up your triple A battle field and cod remakes for that last 12 years and enjoy. Weird that microsoft started a Early accsess program.. Hmm. I think the mainly killer of this game will be the devs trying to play it safe.

  • DeviLettuce
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    @svetli97 you have to attack the right ships. If a ship is at an outpost most likely they either just loaded in or are turning chests in, leave them alone
    Instead look for ships that are at random islands, or are leaving random islands. Don't attack ships right when they arrive at islands, give them a chance to find some booty. Once you see the ship begin to pull away then attack. Your chances of finding chests is higher that way. Be smart and think like a pirate. And my rule of thumb, I never attack a ship unless I have at least on chest on board, having something to loose makes it more fun.

  • CaseSugar401098

    If you don't raise your reputation with the merchants alliance, you don't get to legend.
    So people will do those missions.

    However I do like the idea of NPC cargo ships and pirate hunter ships. Though the game Skull and Bones is going to have those so it'll look like an idea stolen from them.

    You could even have different fleets flying under different flags so that you might have a couple different navies hunting whichever flag you attacked. This could lead to there being privateers that only attack one side in service to the other.

    I'm sure pirates stole from each other, but it's true most the time they took from easier targets.

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