Questions about No Progression, No Skills, Levels, Itemization?

@stundorn said in Questions about No Progression, No Skills, Levels, Itemization?:

@landiien said in Questions about No Progression, No Skills, Levels, Itemization?:

I agree about the RPG mechanics - I used to be crazy about them, but I'm realizing through this game the potential of having everyone on the same level playing field.

i agree - an even playing field, where everybody is equal strong regarding gamemechanics and only player skill and cooperation is what it needs to create a true sandbox.
they may want to implement some sort of Luck to have even the most skilled players have bad luck and loose sometimes.
That is not only for having a chance against very skilled players, but also to make it not able to "game the playing" and have it like the Harlem Globetrotters playing against my kindergarten crew.
So even playerskill need to be limited and that is by sometimes you just have bad luck.

I'm curious what the Community thinks about or if they have gone crazy about it in the Forums already or if they will lament and argue until the developers change it.
Then i won't play SoT.
I havent preordered, i'm not that much involved yet, but when i erad the article i was excited about the facts, although they seem to believe that because of that SoT has no content and no chance to become a successfull game.
To me this would be the best decision a developer team and publisher can do. Create a persistent sandbox/ world without any perks, items, levels, skills what make you stronger or give you a favor.

What is the common opinion in the Community about that?

Most of the community both here in the forum and those on twitch are all on board with how thegame is being made.
There are of course the very loud minority here in the forums who complain about progression and stuff but its the same crowd that complain about everything else in the game (and probably about life) so they are easy to dismiss as people whoclearly dont understand the game SoT as it was intended.
I think in a few weeks after launch all the trouble makers will be long gone and the game will continue to be fun for what it is.

@skaary27 I dont know how many hours you spend on games, and how fast you clean up games.
But §I have to tell you that I'm a pretty big gamer (about 12h gaming per day) and I'm a rusher (cleaning games as fast as i can) and this game will clearly more contents to survive.
Spending hours to shot with cannoons and discovering treasures will quickly annoy people believe me. Everyone is hyped right now and happy cause this kind of game is unique, but after 1 week of playing, you'll see a wave of people complaining about the contents.
And Rare will give more contents to people but it'll never be enough because they let players think that Rare will give nothing if they dont ask it. So they'll ask something everytime again and again...

The famous games atm are Fortnite, Pubg, LoL, Ow... All are competitives games. This is what players like, trying to be better than the others, trying to be the best, trying to do THEIR best. Which we cant really do on this game cause even if you're blind and you shot in the water with your cannons you'll lose 1 chest so what ??? Getting a chest take about 10 minutes...

I hope they'll clearly add contents fast after official release cause I dont want this game dying cause people dont know what to do on. (Clearly what's happening on MMORPG and adventures online games).

@onsorrow said in Questions about No Progression, No Skills, Levels, Itemization?:

@skaary27 I dont know how many hours you spend on games, and how fast you clean up games.
But §I have to tell you that I'm a pretty big gamer (about 12h gaming per day) and I'm a rusher (cleaning games as fast as i can) and this game will clearly more contents to survive.
Spending hours to shot with cannoons and discovering treasures will quickly annoy people believe me. Everyone is hyped right now and happy cause this kind of game is unique, but after 1 week of playing, you'll see a wave of people complaining about the contents.
And Rare will give more contents to people but it'll never be enough because they let players think that Rare will give nothing if they dont ask it. So they'll ask something everytime again and again...

The famous games atm are Fortnite, Pubg, LoL, Ow... All are competitives games. This is what players like, trying to be better than the others, trying to be the best, trying to do THEIR best. Which we cant really do on this game cause even if you're blind and you shot in the water with your cannons you'll lose 1 chest so what ??? Getting a chest take about 10 minutes...

I hope they'll clearly add contents fast after official release cause I dont want this game dying cause people dont know what to do on. (Clearly what's happening on MMORPG and adventures online games).

But you are s professional gamer basically. I mean if you spend 12 hours ( half the entire day) in front of your game youre never going to like this game.
At least i think that's what the OP is trying to ask. Hes worried pro gamers whos entire life is sitting in front of a game will start to demand this game be turned into just another time sink mindless DPS grindfest that rewards hours played over skill or strategy.
Both kinds of games are fine but SoT is definitely NOT a mmorpg but more a fps in a sandbox nonlinear server.
He dont want to buy the game then have it change.

@stundorn said in Questions about No Progression, No Skills, Levels, Itemization?:

People playing that much shouldnt be the measures @OnSorrow
If you like and need progression and play that much try out Shroud of the Avatar, there you have only grind for skills.
If people bore out because they play 10 hours a day no developer should care as they shouldn't care for those playing only 2 hours a week.
They shoudl care for normal gamers, called the casual gamer, playing 10-20 hours a week, an average of 2-3 hours a day.
Some days the won't play but have other days they play double of the time they usually play.

And if the sandbox in itself lacks beeing interesting and fun to play then it is not progress what makes the game better, in fact it only divides pro gamers from casual gamers and desreoy the even play field. The pro gamer is still the one who wins due to more practice most of the time.
If they bore out, it's because they are pro and compete against non-pro.
Arena Style Games have matchmaking to cover that.
Afaik SoT also matches players together in several intances of the open world, they can also match more skilled and less skilled players with this.

I think i basically just told him the same thing ha ha ha oops.
I get where youre comming from. I have a life , job, home, and property to take care of plus other hobbies and can no longer find a game for players like me.
Every game is made for pro gamers or basement dwelling kids with nothing to do but game.
I hope this game stays casual fun.

@stundorn Yeah but casuals are killing every games.
WoW died cause of Casuals, people playing only 2h per day cant raid etc, so cant get good stuff. So Blizz made the game easier, too many easy for the FIRST and REAL players of the game, the real community spending many €€€ for 1 year subs and buying collectors editions, FanShirts etc... This is what makes a game surviving, Casuals will never buy something since spending 50€ is already too much for them.
BDO is dying cause of Casuals, cause they cried like "we cant be strong cause we cant play like top players classements (in hours)", so Devs made a system to buy/boost with real money and now we cant recognize a good player and a bad, cause even the terrible player can get the best Gear of the game.

And a Casual will play a game cause he's bored atm. When a new game/update will appears on another game, they'll just leave the actual one which will die cause every real fans of the game left it cause of casuals and casuals will leave cause they cant stand more than 1 month a game cause they're not real FANS of a game and not really IN LOVE with a particular game,n which hardcore gamers are.

All dev's teams are fucusing to give what casuals wants, cause they're a lot. they're like "If we keep Casuals on our game, we will survive". But they're wrong, the community that makes a game surviving is the hardcore gamer community, not the casuals one.

And actually you said "if you need progression", but there's progression on SoT, every games got some. Otherwise it's not a game.

I already created a topic suggesting more contents PvP/PvE which can be reach from both HardGamers and Casuals cause HardGamers will need Casuals and Casuals will need Hardgamers. I described everything in...
Devs hate doing that (i guess) but they should sometimes copy things from other games and evolve/upgrade it for their games. This is how the world works, someone try something good but fails. someone smart will take the idea again and repeat it with another system, and it'll works perfectly.
I got a Library full of PC games (in my room), from 2000 to 2017, and also no-CD versions on my computer, and every online games i played are dead/are dying cause devs missed somewhere. and it's always in the same case : They favors casuals ideas.

@misterdoomed said in Questions about No Progression, No Skills, Levels, Itemization?:

@stundorn said in Questions about No Progression, No Skills, Levels, Itemization?:

People playing that much shouldnt be the measures @OnSorrow
If you like and need progression and play that much try out Shroud of the Avatar, there you have only grind for skills.
If people bore out because they play 10 hours a day no developer should care as they shouldn't care for those playing only 2 hours a week.
They shoudl care for normal gamers, called the casual gamer, playing 10-20 hours a week, an average of 2-3 hours a day.
Some days the won't play but have other days they play double of the time they usually play.

And if the sandbox in itself lacks beeing interesting and fun to play then it is not progress what makes the game better, in fact it only divides pro gamers from casual gamers and desreoy the even play field. The pro gamer is still the one who wins due to more practice most of the time.
If they bore out, it's because they are pro and compete against non-pro.
Arena Style Games have matchmaking to cover that.
Afaik SoT also matches players together in several intances of the open world, they can also match more skilled and less skilled players with this.

I think i basically just told him the same thing ha ha ha oops.
I get where youre comming from. I have a life , job, home, and property to take care of plus other hobbies and can no longer find a game for players like me.
Every game is made for pro gamers or basement dwelling kids with nothing to do but game.
I hope this game stays casual fun.

Dude, by the past you couldn't play WoW cause you needed a guild to get something and you had to play a lot to improve your skills/stuff to get access to a raid. Now, in 1 evening, you can rush two raids and get awesome stuffs.
You couldn't play LoL properly cause every casuals players would've fall in Bronze Div (cause of mechanicals failures etc). Now, even people playing 1 game every 2 days can grind Gold which is where people got good mechanics but bad mindgame (cause of the lack of time played).
You couldn't play FPS cause it needs a lot of practice to aim nicely and to get a good mindgame. Now you can be a good player cause even if your aim is bad, if you got a good mindgame (a brain...) you can help your team by giving strats or infos. Which you couldn't do by the past cause even with strats, a good mechanical player would just destroy 1v5 a game against people with bad mechanics. Which now isn't possible. (or only if you smurf)

So, dont tell me you cant play a game please. Every games of this world are good for casuals now ^^

@onsorrow said in Questions about No Progression, No Skills, Levels, Itemization?:

@misterdoomed said in Questions about No Progression, No Skills, Levels, Itemization?:

@stundorn said in Questions about No Progression, No Skills, Levels, Itemization?:

People playing that much shouldnt be the measures @OnSorrow
If you like and need progression and play that much try out Shroud of the Avatar, there you have only grind for skills.
If people bore out because they play 10 hours a day no developer should care as they shouldn't care for those playing only 2 hours a week.
They shoudl care for normal gamers, called the casual gamer, playing 10-20 hours a week, an average of 2-3 hours a day.
Some days the won't play but have other days they play double of the time they usually play.

And if the sandbox in itself lacks beeing interesting and fun to play then it is not progress what makes the game better, in fact it only divides pro gamers from casual gamers and desreoy the even play field. The pro gamer is still the one who wins due to more practice most of the time.
If they bore out, it's because they are pro and compete against non-pro.
Arena Style Games have matchmaking to cover that.
Afaik SoT also matches players together in several intances of the open world, they can also match more skilled and less skilled players with this.

I think i basically just told him the same thing ha ha ha oops.
I get where youre comming from. I have a life , job, home, and property to take care of plus other hobbies and can no longer find a game for players like me.
Every game is made for pro gamers or basement dwelling kids with nothing to do but game.
I hope this game stays casual fun.

Dude, by the past you couldn't play WoW cause you needed a guild to get something and you had to play a lot to improve your skills/stuff to get access to a raid. Now, in 1 evening, you can rush two raids and get awesome stuffs.
You couldn't play LoL properly cause every casuals players would've fall in Bronze Div (cause of mechanicals failures etc). Now, even people playing 1 game every 2 days can grind Gold which is where people got good mechanics but bad mindgame (cause of the lack of time played).
You couldn't play FPS cause it needs a lot of practice to aim nicely and to get a good mindgame. Now you can be a good player cause even if your aim is bad, if you got a good mindgame (a brain...) you can help your team by giving strats or infos. Which you couldn't do by the past cause even with strats, a good mechanical player would just destroy 1v5 a game against people with bad mechanics. Which now isn't possible. (or only if you smurf)

So, dont tell me you cant play a game please. Every games of this world are good for casuals now ^^

[mod removed]. I said theres nothing wrong with how you play [mod removed].
And i consider WoW a horrible grindfest game that rewards time played not skill so we have different ideas on what skill is.
I consider skill games , games like SoT where on day one you are as good as anyone else pretty much. Yes you need to hone your skills or learn the rules but it still comes down to skill vs skill not hey i grinded for 5 weeks to get max level and the super power sword and purple dragon helm of coolness.
All the games you mentioned reward time served as much or more than skill. Heck LoL is f2p and has the grind to gear reward system.
And i dont consider hardly sny game a game for casuals i consider most games dumbed down to the base common denominator to make it as easy as can be for sheep but i dont consider them casual.
Either way its not worth you getting crazed over man. We just see casual as something different and you're a 12 hours a day in front of screen player, how could we ever see things the same?
I simply told the OP what i think he wanted to know. I think he understands what i mean. If not then sorry to you both.

I wish we could name drop on forums because there are or where great examples of hardcore games that used skill and strategies over hours played and was very hardcore but easy to be great by a casual player.

@captain-surgee
Ive seen many people say that they play on xbox but bought a mouse and keyboard to go with it. Seems if its that big of a deal people will just do that.
They also have things like inventory wheels and scope sensitivity lock etc to level the playing field.
I personally dont want to play with xbox players so im with you on all of us being together but i think it will be fine.
Ive even seen people who play on pc and xbox both and dont see a real difference.
Ill bet the differences wont be so bad.

Gold hoarders reputation does at the moment.

@stundorn "progression on SoT, every games got some"
"It's a lot, but not progression only"

You dont even know how to read properly. I dont want to waste my time explaining things to someone using things I never said to talk.

On video games, the real GAME begin when you hit a certain level of skill/stuff. And casuals dont even touch this cap, so it's useless to talk about a GAME with them. Or maybe we can talk about Worms, Theme Hospital, Sims, and things like that. But not about competitive and evolving games.
Someone said "this game isn't for you". Do you mean that this game is made for weak people ? Like, there's no progression to get more power or levels, like this everyone is equals, but even with that there will be a big skill difference between players and a lot will continue to cry and stop playing SoT cause they'll get rekt. And you'll see i'm right two weeks after the release. Cya at this moment c: