The Vision - The most fun and welcoming multiplayer experience ever

  • Koshdukai
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    Official Sea of Thieves New York Comic Con 2017 Panel:
    The Vision - The most fun and welcoming multiplayer experience ever

    (re)Watching the above video made me (re)question myself if RARE is/will be successful in fulfilling the main vision of Sea of Thieves.

    "The most fun" ?
    Yes, I was lucky enough to experience that, so as far as I'm concerned, that's in a good shape and hopefully will only get better with future iterations of the game.

    "The most welcoming" ?
    Personally, I didn't have any issues that made me think otherwise but (due to NDA) let's imagine the scenario where players may get a not very welcoming "log in" experience, when being randomly placed into an already existing or recent friends crew.

    Now, I'm not talking about the unfortunately inevitable and truly toxic behavior (the kind one can report to support about) mostly based on really low-level trash talking. That's something RARE (Xbox support?) can only deal with through the traditional ways.

    I'm talking about, mostly the obvious (possibility of) "abuse" of the brig functionality.

    For most, this may be a hot topic, (eventually) putting players against players, where those using the brig as "the only way" to enforce their crew policy (most likely the "you need a mic!!!" issue) vs players being put in the brig almost as they got into the game, (possibly) complaining that crews shouldn't be allowed to do that, because it's unfair and such.

    Well, I guess RARE is of the opinion that indeed, crews make their own ship laws, at least, while they last as "a crew" which may change (the "law") dynamically as members change throughout that game session.
    Using again that ComicCon2017 video as an example: "It's your crew bond [...] it should be up to you to decide what's acceptable [...] and the power should be in your hands to deal with it [...]""
    ...so, it looks like those crews insta-brigging newer players are would be playing by the RARE's own "rules" (if the game allows it, that's the rule, right?), simply following Article 5 of SoT's Pirate's Code.

    Which, makes me wonder, how the heck that isn't conflicting with all the other "Pirate Code" articles!?

    "ARTICLE 3: DISPUTES ARE SETTLE UPON THE WAVES" ...which isn't possible in these cases for those that get in the game and see themselves inside the brig after a few tries of getting into a random crew, even if they get out of the game and in again, some players wouldn't be able to get a place on a galleon to start playing anyway.

    Looks like RARE needs to at least detect these cases and after 2 or 3 insta-brigs, these "rejected" players get put into a new ship crew, preferably with other players having the same issue.
    ...either that or tackle the main cause of most of these issues: The "Mic" vs "no Mic" crowd, make that as a filter to guide the matchmaking process.
    That and the other (possible) cause: Crews wanting to keep playing as a 3 member crew. So that's another issue that can be tackled quite easily, by allowing the crew to set a member count limit or simply locking that ship from getting any new members through matchmaking.

    Maybe, this one needs some adjusting... "ARTICLE 1: THE SEA CALLS TO ALL -
    Everyone is welcome on the Sea of Thieves regardless of age, gender, race, sexuality, nationality or creed    " ...what about being discriminated due to using a Mic or not? ;)

    This issue is also kinda infringing on this "ARTICLE 6: RESPECT NEW PIRATES AND THEIR VOYAGE AHED" where some of those reports were from new players trying getting into a galleon for the first time and all the game experience they were getting was seeing the internals of the ship through the brig bars :P
    Not very welcoming, right?

    So I hope RARE will improve this "welcoming" aspect of the of SoT, because apparently there's still more work needed on this approach, as per what's been said in the ComicCon2017 video.

    So matchmaking surely needs some tweaking, some additional player controlled options to filter out these unnecessary nasty login experiences.

    Same could be said about the PVP vs PVE hot topic too, where the algorithm that places ships into game instances needs to be a bit smarter and know a bit more about the playing-style history of the players in that crew to at least roughly match the player game style expectations that has an obvious direct impact on the perceived "welcoming" experience each player will get out of the game.

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  • Its Stoobs
    Master
    Founder

    I agree that more options/filters need to be set in place regarding matchmaking.
    They also need to add an option to remove the constant searching for more crew members when one leaves, I've seen a few times that there's a crew of 3 waiting on their 4th friend to join when a random player joins. This is when they put them in the brig in hopes they'll leave so their friend can join.
    The Mic/No Mic issue I never got, I played with a few without mics, And they used the quick call buttons and could still hear me, if not, me and a friend used the quick call menu to shout commands and communicate with them to adhere to their lack of mix. It seemed to work great, And they got to enjoy the pirate experience as much as we did.

    There's always going to be a few things that RARE cannot prevent, Like trolls/deviants that just want to ruin the fun, Aside from reporting every 3rd player for trolling, The brig is a fantastic way to punish those and have a little realism in the crew and some fun.

  • kermar tutu
    Commander
    Insider
    Founder

    first game should alowed crew of 3... Without the possibility to become 4. 3 friends want play togeser only they don t want a 4th player. The brig and this 3 arent the problem here. they want to be 3 only and they should be able to. And i beleve they will allow it.

    actualy i prefer go in a romdom crew who put me in a brig strait away to show me they dont want me than a crew who cant put me and i see a lack of teamplay after awhile... what make a waist of time for every one.

    the solution is simple... after be 3 on the boat... lock the team of 3 ... like this no ramdom players come. no victim.

    i like the brig it should remain.

  • zemaryal
    Founder

    Totaly agree and about MIC thing, I think the game has a chat option where people communicate with, so not a big deal I guess. :?

  • Koshdukai
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    @clumsy-george said in The Vision - The most fun and welcoming multiplayer experience ever:

    @koshdukai

    This game CAN be the most friendly one around, but it doesn't come automaticly, not one game has that...It all depends on the players and their will and joy and reward to be friendly.

    Hello :)

    btw I know about Alfred Nobel the chemist, dynamite inventor and also the successful businessman that earned so much money due to the good and bad uses of his invention that he ended up having some conscience issues which resulted in the creation of the Nobel Prizes that further carried on after his death according to the instructions left on his will.

    Problem is... Sea of Thieves isn't a standalone invention thrown into the world for the world to have a good or bad use of it, like dynamite ...though this game could be considered "dynamite" ;P (...and that's my poor attempt of being funny, sorry).

    Sea of Thieves is an online game, a set of rules imposed and enforceable both client and server side.

    Obviously, there's outcomes impossible to predict and control or enforce (like dealing with audio-based annoying players ...though you can mute them).
    I won't lose any of our time discussing real toxic players. That unfortunately and inevitably comes with the online aspect of games and is always hard to deal with technically.

    The issue I'm trying to point at here is a possible mismatch between the vision and goals RARE has set for this game and the end result.

    What I'm pointing out is that, there might be a mismatch (currently) simply because simple technical aids weren't implemented yet.

    Example 1: The hot topic related with "we brig any player that joins our crew without a mic". I'm not discussing who's right. I'm pointing out that a simple toggle option at "Set sail" expressing the player stance on that would help to avoid unnecessary aggravation on both parties, the ones not wanting mic'less crew members and the ones being put in the brig for... let's say, "the wrong reasons" ...at least according to the initial RARE ideals when coming up with that feature.

    Example 2: Crews wanting to lock their member count to less than 4 members, abusing the brig to set their goal... forgetting how innocent every new team mate is when landing on that crew.
    Both parties are not getting what they want from the game. So... this game "political" and technical issue isn't benefiting anyone (not even RARE, IMHO).

    I could go on and on about other examples, even touching the PVP vs PVE hot topic which to me also has technical solutions that would at least lower the severity of expected playing experience clashes.

    RARE vision for this game is in the title of this thread.

    To achieve it fully, there's still some extra work to be done around simple details, fine tuning some aspects (some easier than others to implement) of the game matchmaking and instance pairing of ships so every player is presented with "their own reality" that matches their expectations from this game which ultimately will measure how fun and welcoming the game is to that player ...to every player. The more, the better to all, including RARE, for obvious reasons.

    Of course, clear headed, intelligent, kind, patient, open minded, friendly players will always make a difference on some of these edge cases of incomplete game design, basically "covering up" (unintentionally) these edge cases by not making them happen.
    Unfortunately, the SoT player population is not made 100% of such kind players, so the game needs to refine those rough edges brought to light due to the inevitable "human nature" of some players.

  • A Cranky Eskimo
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    @koshdukai agree with you on most points, specifically that this game shouldnt be expected to change human nature, though it is flawed in many ways, its much easier to implement a matchmaking filter than to force everyone to be "politically correct" for the sake of the enemy players in a pirate game. I know this is Rare and thats probably why a lot of more casual "pick up and play" gamers are interested. Thing is that this game isnt really a matchmade pick up and play style game. It can be in a sense but dont expect to get to far without putting your time in, regardless of progression not being vertical. Imo it really comes down to player expectation which seems to be a bit to high, probably because of the ways they advertise the game as being the friendliest most inclusive community, i wouldnt say it isnt but they may be shooting themselves in the foot. They need to be more vocal about the fact that this is really an open world pvp adventure game, not a friendly sailing simulator with a pirate theme. This dosnt "excuse" players for insta brigging, but it dosnt solve anything to pretend like those players owed you a spot on the crew, because rare said the game was supposed to be super friendly. Report any actual toxicity and then realize the way you have fun in this game is by finding a solid bunch of likeminded players to crew with, and friending them. In this way the game may actually be the friendliest around, but we cant go defining what making friends or what a good friend is for all the different people in the world. Some have much different opinions and standards for such things and would be appalled at what some of me or my friends say to each other etc, likely the same people who just cant understand why the crew they matchmade into cant just play nice without them having a mic or whatever, dosnt mean that the brig voters did anything more wrong than the guy with too many expectations. All in all this is why i agree that game design really dictates how a lot of things are perceived, rather than individual player motivation. Any real toxicity like actual anger or threats and basically bullying should just be reported through xbox. Any form of gameplay considered "trolling" should be decentivized by in game means.

    Other than that having reduced my hopes for the scale of the game slightly since last year or before, i would say they have achieved something great with this game if they include even half the activities that this forum has hoped/asked for by next december. The alpha had very little in the means of progression content but the sandbox pvp and treasure loop had me on every session, so imo it can only get bigger and better. Add in pirate clans with an instanced island or player trading and a pve player hub island bigger than we have seen, and they are on the way... the items and rest of the gameplay should fall into place as they go along.

  • Zombie P1ague
    Marauder
    Insider

    In so many games the creators might imagine or want you to play in a certain manner. But the community might have other ideas.

    People will always play a game the way they want. May it be passive or single minded and driven. All we can do as individuals is try to set a good example and try not to be a part of the Inevitable toxic behavior

  • VipeNess
    Master
    Insider

    Very excited for the game from all the videos I've seen.

  • Entinome
    Lord
    Insider
    Boatswain
    Founder

    With friendly multiplayer experience, I think it comes down to two things. One part is, dont do to others what you wouldnt want others to you. To me, that means that sure Ill kill or steal but I very unlikely fire first, and dont spawncamp, Ill sink and then give you the chance to take the mermaid. If you dont take it, and are aggressive Ill kill you. I dont usually shoot first, but I do go up to other ships. With a range of different motivations, but not usually to sink. If they attack, I strike back though. But thats personal, what i would find acceptable isnt to others.

    And thats the biggest problem with friendly multiplayer experience. Its subjective. Thats  where the second part comes in, friendly multiplayer lies in the mindset of the players applied to the game. The way I see it, Rare is trying to create a welcoming multiplayer game by mechanical changes such as low death penalty and sinking cost. It might, and most probably, will change but big part of creating a welcoming mentality is reducing the competitive nature by allowing you to learn from your mistakes and make informed choices with the freedom of the world. I think Sea of Thieves is very good at making frustration a learning experience, or for allowing the possibility to turn it around into a victory against the same people.

    If you are thinking friendly in the sense that people will go around helping eachother, not shooting first, and not being doubtful of being backstabbed thats a very different ballgame. Sea of Thieves allows you to be the kind of pirate you want to be, so there are friendly pirates. I, and many others have employed the secret santa technique. Or play by an honour code. But, its just like real life. Not everyone has time or wants to do such things. Some people like sinking ship, others like getting a rise out of people, others just like messing around and then theres people who take it to the extreme and troll. But all those terms are, once again, fairly subjective.

    My point is cooperation often happens out of shared interest, or individual wants. It sounds sad, but not everyone wants to be friendly and thats okay. However, if rare decides friendly means not shooting everyone on sight or being doubtful of everyone. They will probably have to do something like incentivizing not shooting first. Or tying intent with something visual out of player control.

    Lastly, Rare has also talked about and has already acknowledged player stories. As players get added, perhaps we'll see interesting ingame dynamics. I have said it before, but i hope that this community continues to grow in a way where people become known for certain things. Things to be respected for, and this type of inclusion of Rare might also lead to interesting dynamics. We already have fleets who uphold a certain honor code to protect the seas and keep it honorable. Then theres players who you know that if you encounter its time to get rowdy. Others who you know you can trust if they say so, but you still keep a knife hidden behind your back. Or players who dont shoot unless shot, who might give you treasure, but who are extremely vengeful. And then who you know mean no harm at all. Or just a mixture, or something totally different.

    Building up a notoriety of sorts is important in this game, as it allows you to influence how encounters go on your server. I think thats the beauty of it. Ive already seen this in practice, fleets and people having influence on the servers they play in. Rare just needs to build off that in some way, like showing who is in your server so you know what to expect. Or signal flags. It could still not work out or be a lie, but its at the cost of your reputation if its contradictory to what you say elsewhere.

    Summary: Depending on how you define friendly multiplayer experience, Rare needs to adjust how the game works (creating reasons to cooperate) or bring greater attention to certain other aspects such, for example, distinguishing player reputation through visual means. Additionally, the player mentality you should have playing sot, as explained by Rare, needs to be included in an important way ingame.

    Did I ramble again?

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