Honestly I came into this post with bad assumptions, but what you've suggested is quite good. I'd love more reasons to cooperate with other crews for things that aren't limited time events or glitterbeard.

More difficult PVE would be quite nice too; I liked needing to actually dodge the Eternal Guard's spears as opposed to just wailing on them like every other boss. The combat in this game is quite simple, so having a focus on the mobility of our pirates might be the move going forward.

I dont like the idea of procedurally generated stuff and much more prefer hand crafted worlds.

These are two totally different kind of games. They can not even be compared as such. Both have their strengths and weaknesses.

Im planning of playing both as they cater to two totally different things.

@axecaliburtv said in Actual Things Sea of Thieves Can Learn From Windrose:

I dont like the idea of procedurally generated stuff and much more prefer hand crafted worlds.

I get what you're saying but the point is to keep it fresh and constantly replayable. A fixed map, like I said, isn't difficult to learn. It wouldn't replace the existing Adventure map though.

The difference with "procedural" and "semi-procedural" is worth considering. This isn't something like No Man's Sky, it's a lot more modular. The individual pieces are still crafted. Just the islands are shuffled around the map.

It also gives scope to include older island layouts back (Golden Sands Outpost, for example) as those exist as memories.

@ghostfire1981 said in Actual Things Sea of Thieves Can Learn From Windrose:

These are two totally different kind of games. They can not even be compared as such. Both have their strengths and weaknesses.

Im planning of playing both as they cater to two totally different things.

Exactly what I said in the opening.

@ol-squinty said in Actual Things Sea of Thieves Can Learn From Windrose:

Honestly I came into this post with bad assumptions, but what you've suggested is quite good.

I fully expect a lot of eyerolls and replies from folk who just read the title. Windrose is really just a jumping off point for an idea I've had for awhile. The semi-procedural map and fog of war are really the only ideas I actually had from playing Windrose.

As you said.
Pve use to be something of a challenge but over time and a lot of player complaints. They nerf them into the ground.

Skeleton ships use to spawn even when you were on islands!
Skeletons use to spawn on islands in waves, more kegs and even EoR versions.
Kraken was a monster now it more of a wild dog.

But players didn’t like the. To hard they said, difficult to fight and or the got in the way of PvP
Now….they are annoying because they are weak.

@burnbacon said in Actual Things Sea of Thieves Can Learn From Windrose:

As you said.
Pve use to be something of a challenge but over time and a lot of player complaints. They nerf them into the ground.

Skeleton ships use to spawn even when you were on islands!
Skeletons use to spawn on islands in waves, more kegs and even EoR versions.
Kraken was a monster now it more of a wild dog.

But players didn’t like the. To hard they said, difficult to fight and or the got in the way of PvP
Now….they are annoying because they are weak.

I'm not going to belittle anyone finding things difficult, we all have differing skill levels and thresholds for patience. This is one reason I think it works well in a separate mode to the normal Adventure, it's an opt-in to a more difficult experience.

As a related note, I did get a Kraken spawn on me as I was doing the doubloon voyage at the weekend. Took about 10-15 seconds to dispatch. It is kind of pathetic these days, and that is a shame. The Kraken should be feared. Maybe a Sea of the Damned version could be.

@d3adst1ck said in Actual Things Sea of Thieves Can Learn From Windrose:

@realstyli said in Actual Things Sea of Thieves Can Learn From Windrose:

As a related note, I did get a Kraken spawn on me as I was doing the doubloon voyage at the weekend. Took about 10-15 seconds to dispatch. It is kind of pathetic these days, and that is a shame. The Kraken should be feared. Maybe a Sea of the Damned version could be.

You also know exactly what to do to kill it. I imagine a lot of new players still find it challenging as it pulls them off the ship or wraps them up.

Indeed. I just think they nerfed it a bit too much. And I wish there was a way to scale it optionally.

That's why it's hard to introduce challenging PvE into the regular world. When we did have more challenging variants, people complained it was too hard.

Have they nerfed the Ancient Megs, Boars, or Eternal Guards yet? That's the kind of level I'm talking about for general enemies.

Because you are right when you say:

It also makes PvP interactions more lopsided to whoever is not being targeted which is something that doesn't need to be considered by games like Windrose.

I'm really getting at this area being more co-op focused in terms of world activities. PvP is not ruled out but, for your best chances, it's the least efficient way to go.

Think Raids in MMOs.

Solo is also not impossible, for lower tier "voyages", but you're gonna want to team up for the harder stuff. (I guess Arc Raiders style here?)

Again, once an event is complete, the cards are off the table and game theory sets in once more. But then, if you want the additional treasure, getting to the sell point is going to be tense if you're alone.

2. [A lot of] Players enjoy difficult PvE

This part is fascinating to me.

The challenging part of SOT is PvP. It serves effectively the same purpose as difficult PvE. If you're playing SOT with the same intent as you do Windrose, then simply muting other crews completely should create a similar experience.

Yet, for some reason, some of those same players that love a challenge, refer to the PvP element of SOT as "toxic" and wish that the game was reduced to mind numbingly easy PvE.

@realstyli said in Actual Things Sea of Thieves Can Learn From Windrose:

Have they nerfed the Ancient Megs, Boars, or Eternal Guards yet? That's the kind of level I'm talking about for general enemies.

Just did the Ancient Feared Redmaw solo, had no fire on my sloop, she didn't have an opportunity to bite.

Before, it would have a large chance of setting fire on the ship and even explode before it got killed. I might have gotten lucky that each and every approach was in the range of the cannons and I didn't miss the two shots it takes to stop the attack.
It also seemed to take less balls to kill it

The "Feared" part can be taken from its name.

@sweetsandman said in Actual Things Sea of Thieves Can Learn From Windrose:

2. [A lot of] Players enjoy difficult PvE

This part is fascinating to me.

The challenging part of SOT is PvP. It serves effectively the same purpose as difficult PvE. If you're playing SOT with the same intent as you do Windrose, then simply muting other crews completely should create a similar experience.

Yet, for some reason, some of those same players that love a challenge, refer to the PvP element of SOT as "toxic" and wish that the game was reduced to mind numbingly easy PvE.

All this can be summed up as: humans are weird.

@lem0n-curry

I always had a feeling the OG megs had a random variable applied to aggression. I wonder if that's also the case for the Ancient ones.

@quitespace1450 said in Actual Things Sea of Thieves Can Learn From Windrose:

i think it now is more an issue.. what the remaining sea of thieves players can learn from windrose.... it took forever for people to come out with games to compete with sea of thieves. it was an untapped gold mine and no one took advantage of it even rare themselves. if a new game along the same lines has come along and is actually better.... time to uninstall. if you havent already. i plan to in the next few weeks. just tying up loose ends

Like I said in the opening, they're very different games. Yes, the pirate theme is enough to spark interest with Sea of Thieves players but, just like Skull & Bones, whether they stay is down to if they like the gameplay. Windrose is more akin to Valheim than anything else. It also just happened to drop at a low point for Sea of Thieves, so folks are taking the opportunity to check it out.

The "lessons" from Windrose were mainly just a framing device for me to propose a Sea of the Damned mode and what it might entail, while keeping it very much within the same gameplay as Sea of Thieves.