Suggestions for Potential Sword Changes

Cutlass isn't very good at higher levels and it can be annoying to play against at any level. That's probably not a good thing.

I am unaware of levels tha change the outcome of the game. What levels?

@burnbacon
When I say levels, I am referring to levels of play. As in cutlass is not very good against competent players, and it is annoying to play against no matter how good or bad you are. I am not referring to in game faction levels.

Yay 3 threads on this now…..

As said in other threads the sword has more abilities than any other weapon.

I’d encourage you to watch some high level players and you’ll see them equip sword.

You said it well too, no matter the skill level swords are horrible to play against.

Sword Vs Blowpipe, Pistol, Blunder, EoR, Firebomb, Blunderbomb, Traps, Bucket of Puke.

Sword is very weak weapon...If you know the proper way to fight and dont get your pants caught down, which...many of you seem to let happen if you think its OP.

As said in other threads the sword has more abilities than any other weapon.

Not sure how that has anything to do with how powerful it is in pvp. It seems to me that most people's biggest gripes with it are that the vast majority of sword players don't utilize said abilities and instead just run forward and spam m1

I’d encourage you to watch some high level players and you’ll see them equip sword.

I'm referring to consistently using sword. Equipping the weapon for 2 minutes to lunge off into the water, onto another boat to kill a few newer players, or any other extremely niche situation is not the same as consistently using sword in pvp. In fact, as someone who played a season of NAL and a season of LoT, there was no one else in either league that used sword for anything other than hopping from hole to hole in the bottom deck. Usage in a competitive environment certainly isn't everything, but it is an indicator the weapon is not finding success among good players.

You said it well too, no matter the skill level swords are horrible to play against.

Exactly the goal of the suggestions. My feeling is that these changes would encourage players to actually utilize the sword in ways other than spamming m1 and hoping their enemy misses. Well designed weapons should be fun to use and fun to play against. I don't think there's any reasonable way to take all the spam off of sword, but encouraging players to use other aspects of it could reduce the frustration of fighting it.

The way few people replied to this post makes me realize i've been around this game for too long..

Hourglass brewed this fake mastery impression – high level (rep) is mistaken for elo points and streaks for skill status.

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So let me rant. Hourglass is not a good display of "high level play" on Sea of Thieves.
TL;DR
There was a time when double gunning and sword both demanded skill, both were viable, both had answers in any situations. That’s what healthy game balance looks like. Unfortunately since the sword macro incident during NAL or Sea of Champions, the sword became dull and duller. But now with the upcoming (good) changes for double gunning, the sword needs to be sharpened again.

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Naval is a really niche set of mechanicals skills and double gun usage or sword usage there means nothing compared to their usage elsewhere.

It does not translate to any other game for that matter (which is not the issue with that btw) but with the death of Arena and the state of Open World PvP it's the only place people can falsely see what "high level" means on SoT.

Year 1 Open World Pvp was the peak of the game. Everyone questing while fighting for loot that mattered to gain rep. Most people 'fort hopping' for intense multi ship fights for those way too rare Skeleton Forts back then and your ability to fight on and out of your ship made you win or loose — THIS was in my opinion what Sea of Thieves was about.
Hourglass is about staying on your ship and spamming cannons and sometimes using your guns or sword not a really deep process.

Then came Arena while the gameplay loop was flawed good players being able to handle 1v4 on a Galleons deck to prevent repair, wipe cannons line or hold a chest on a island using double guns or a much more mechanically skilled sword back then (X cancelling, sword wallbangs and lunge) was a display of "high level" because your mastery of "hard mechanics" helped you towards winning a hard to win situation = high skill.

Then we had TDMs and spawncamping while sure being toxic part of the community it's the ultimate showcase of on-land combat skills on Sea of Thieves because it focuses on those skills and nothing else.

Being able to kill 2 players in a quick sucession during a TDM in a 1v2 or being able to hold a 1v4 spawncamp on a galleon for multiples respawns is a hard skill to master while 1 balling 2 players from your cannons is not.

Bonus: https://i.imgur.com/7pDUmRP.png

@jon-sea-nah The vast majority of high level players do not use sword. You cherry picking and pointing out a few rare examples doesn't suddenly make it true that everyone does it or that its actually viable in combat.

@potatosord

One can simply be said about the players you are referring to as well! MOST HIGH LVL HG have an “agreement” of swords are cringe, BECAUSE? So broken…

Boxy is one of the best examples. He dbl guns but when met against sword users switches to sword….. and usually fairs pretty well. Hitbo? Sword, blurbs? Sword, I could go on. It’s simple to see that all players use sword I have seen high level hg players switch to sword when they are fighting decent sword players. 2 decent sword players make it hard for a dbl gun to get around.

IF you listened to the November update about season 18 being delayed drew even talks about the call for blunderbuss changes 😁😁😁😁😁 and sword changes, and seeing as how it’s been mentioned a few times in the past that the sword has “unintended” abilities that were left in the game due to the overall community reception but that were never meant to be…… but said they wanted to see the meta land and calm down from QS returning before another major change.

The fact that the next thing sword players want returned is the ability to MISS and still combo…… let me start the sword combo by hitting the ground first….. ok so let me shoot but if I miss I don’t have to reload and the bullet doesn’t subtract from my count of 5 unless I hit you, is about the same argument.

@worst-tdmer Hourglass is not competitive at all and does not represents Sea of Thieves at all. It strips down the game to naval you just sit on a ship like a turret.

Arena and Year 1 fort hopping were the closest we got to something "competitive" because it had everything loot hoarding, digging, cannons usage, on ship fights, on land fights and multiples ships involved not a very sterile environnement were you just shoot cannons balls like in Hourglass.

Hourglass is not a good facade for the game in any way nor it display any skill.
Sea of Thieves skill cap was closer to Overwatch, Quake, TF2 with fast paced gameplay with animations cancelling (both sword and double gun) while feeling like Vanilla World of Warcraft Open World PvP / Rust or even Arc Raiders like but people just want it to be World of Warships or something which i don't get why.

But the topic is about making the sword great again so let's not drag on for too much.

@worst-tdmer yet another solid example.

I’ll give you a non combat one in this game. The gold curse…… you see it used to be that everyone had a slightly different looking curse when you obtained the gold curse, rad right?! But you see one person didn’t get as much gold curse as another player so they threw a fit…… and now, all the same. Players are not happy in this game it seems unless they are the ones sinking others/yet can never sink. If you sink come to forums and blame “title of next post here”

@jon-sea-nah Go watch some early @TartTee or @Eridorrr unlisted playlist vids both like many others back then were "skilled"' with DG and (important keyword) sword.

Problem is you'll have to watch plenty of these vids to find good example of sword skill otherwise you had to be there and be good back then to fully understand since those vids are not really the skillest examples of what people were capable of back then.

@jon-sea-nah You say "He dbl guns but when met against sword users switches to sword….. and usually fairs pretty well. "

But what Utmost and me are saying is that back then you could play double gun against a full crew of sword users (skilled or not) or play sword against a full crew of double gunners (skilled or not) and if you were good you were winning in both scenarios it was a healthy balance like i said in my first comment.

It's not about one side vs the other it was complete mastery of the game not stripping it to cannons and matching your opponents once again we come back to the bs hourglass is :)

And with today increase of skill cap we would have even better plays.

@worst-tdmer said in Suggestions for Potential Sword Changes:

@hshtq

Arena and Year 1 fort hopping were the closest we got to something "competitive" because it had everything loot hoarding, digging, cannons usage, on ship fights, on land fights and multiples ships involved not a very sterile environnement were you just shoot cannons balls like in Hourglass.

"loot hoarding" "digging" competitive? Lol.

It strips down the game to naval you just sit on a ship like a turret.

Again, it just sounds like you've never fought a good crew or had a good crew.

Please stop living in a echo chamber. Please read between lines and see the full picture or stop ragebaiting :)

Otherwise i'll have to ask you to hop on a skilled shooter game to explain to you what all that means and why hourglass sucks at being a display of skill :)

@worst-tdmer said in Suggestions for Potential Sword Changes:

@hshtq

Otherwise i'll have to ask you to hop on a skilled shooter game to explain to you what all that means and why hourglass sucks at being a display of skill :)

But how can the shooter game be skilled when it doesn't have loOt HoArdIng or diGgiNg??

Naval is a core element of SoT, and in hourglass TDM is earned or demanded. Earned by applying appropriate naval pressure, or demanded by denying the other crew a chance to naval. If you think hourglass is all naval, that's a skill issue on your part since it seems like you can't do either.

What about I say I can play hourglass solo or with a "good crew" (an idea you seems attached to) and win every fights without using cannons and spawncamping all the way ?

What would that means, none. Simply that hourglass is not any good even if you flip it 20 times like a Rubiks cube

@worst-tdmer I'm the type of person that plays any game the hardest and the skillest way possible.

If you do whats hard then everything becomes easy but if you do whats easy then everything will be hard. Prime life advice via gaming so if you can't understand that I can't help you further.
(and in our case playing naval is easy while playing non naval hourglass is hard and a display of skill)

@hshtq but you are using player preference over anything else. I could do the same with anecdotal evidence, I have a harder time anchoring and holding down a gally of sword users vs dbl gun.

The opponents meta and loadout should change how you fight. Two dbl gun are going to be hopping, keeping up ejects in front of you to possibly block the shot, working angles to do so.

A blunder user HAS to push close even then shouldn’t “kill” me…… usually results in a weak blunder. Then they have to reload to do more damage….. here’s where sword has MASSIVE advantages.

If a player has a blunder and I’m attempting to board, if they miss/weak blunder, I’m up. They still have to reload before they are a threat with it again.

A sword user can stand above the ladder and click away. Not only does it knock you off, there is no reload. Seems to be quite balanced …..

And to the next point should you find yourself on board cue the mad dash and spam clicks of the sword. Know what you can’t do while being hit by the sword? Eat, reload, move really due to the stun/sword lock. When does the swinging end? Oh, when you die or they do.

If I hitreg or miss 1 shot it’s almost a guaranteed death if the sword user is remotely competent as they know I now have to reload 2 guns to be effective. The minute the first shot doesn’t land they should push, they can’t die here from one shot….. massive advantage in the sword player.

@Worst-TDMer said it well. The new kid with a noob tube, 2 rpgs, running scavenger will most likely have a decent kdr but almost everyone in that lobby calls them trash.

I can't argue with y'all. Too new to the game and possibly not aware of what skill is in video game where you shoot guns.

@jon-sea-nah "If I hitreg or miss 1 shot it’s almost a guaranteed death if the sword user is remotely competent as they know I now have to reload 2 guns to be effective. The minute the first shot doesn’t land they should push, they can’t die here from one shot….. massive advantage in the sword player." That's a skill issue. Competent double gunners have no issue pushing away sword users. Blunderbuss on its own is pretty good anti sword meta, especially with how much stronger the knockback is now. Yeah, it misses and gets weak shots sometimes, but these are issues with hitreg, not with the weapons. What you actually want is for them to fix the underlying systems of the game so that you don't get 6 hitregs in a row. You literally open with "If I hitreg". The game is broken at a basic level, that's why you have the issues you do.

@hshtq You've been pretty on point with what you've said. Not only is sword balanced, if the gunner has any level of skill or game sense, then they'll be able to deal with the supposed "uNsKiLlEd M1 AnD W sPaMmErS" who wipe them so easily apparently, despite their supposed skill...

Hit reg: Man, we need this fixed for all of us. Drew said about 110 FoV that it's "Not just for PvPers, it helps all players. It helps you do your skeleton fort, etc" In the same way, hitreg is not just for PvP or sweats. When I throw a throwing knife at a skeleton, I watch it hit, and it disappears like it hits, but does no damage when its supposed to one hit kill the enemy, that's annoying. We need hitreg fixed for all of us, for all weapons and tools. Foodreg is pain

Increased Block Jump: This could be a good addition, however I see it potentially over correcting and jumping too far. A balance needs to be had so that you aren't likely to block hop off your boat just by trying to be tactical.

I don't use the lunge a lot, since when it misses the cooldown is pretty long and has lead to me getting into a disadvantageous situation more often than not. This might not be too bad.

@potatosord hitreg is a skill issue? Where do boarders go immediately after making board? Anchor? So if the other player knows where you are going to be and rushes that spot and swings aways it’s not hard to hit someone.

Let’s make it simple shoot me a friend request we’ll load into a server and get another ship. I can show you this in real time. I’ll let you play with as much meta as you’d like. I promise the answers you learn will be humbling.

To say that a good dbl gun simply avoids swords….. if the sword user is scared maybe. You get 2 people on him with swords and he’s dead. I’ll let you show me how effectively you kill me and my teammate each time using 2 guns we won’t use anything except swords. I will be kind enough to remove 2 weapons against you. We won’t need it..

I’ll be looking for the friend request and we can run it

@potatosord but the sword doesn’t hit reg hardly ever….. so NO it’s primarily a double gunners problem.

The fact the sword has abilities you choose NOT to use shows again how it’s broken, I don’t not use a feature of EOR/pistol/blunder……. Is it because the sword has 2+ attacks, stun lock, combo, knock back,extended range.

Can I have a choke for the blunder so I can effectively shoot it further? Better yet let me customize the pellet spread.

Can all weapons force people off the ladder?

If I face the opposite way in the water can I use the blunder “kick back” to increase my movement speed?

Can I use the blunder aimed at the ground to jump higher?

Can we add a feature that lets me shoot the ground and lesson fall damage by shooting at the correct time?

I feel these changes would bring the blunder to the same level as the sword. Ability for ability.

Currently the only ability the blunder has is knockback……. And to not kill a player without reloading or switching weapons…..

@worst-tdmer worse, they are entitled to more.

I saw the video about SOT looking into the toxicity claims….

Here I’ll nail down real quick. IF I win, NOT toxic, because I won. Get wrekt nerdz

I lost…….. it’s the toxic cheaters in this game. Stupid QS’ing double gunners ruin this game and make it so toxic!!!! I’d better go make some posts about bugging everything I use, nerfing all I hate, and call it toxic if you don’t agree.

@worst-tdmer said in [Suggestions for Potential Sword Changes]

"That's a skill issue. Competent sword users have no issue baiting shots from double gunners." Therefore no need for sword dodges or screen shake on hits.

I somewhat disagree with this one. Yes, good sword players are capable of baiting shots from double gunners. However, the problem I have with block-jump now is that it’s extreme ineffective at closing distance. Fighting a competent doublegunner in a 1v1 situation ends up requiring dodging 3-4 shots consecutively in order to close distance and secure a kill. (and that’s assuming you’re doing 2 slashes, quick swapping to sniper, and hitting the snipe. If you miss it, you’re going to need another 2 dodges) Against a good doublegunner, that’s just not happening, and as time passes, people are becoming more and more accurate causing sword to become more and more obsolete. I do agree that the screen shake is terrible though.

"That's a skill issue. Competent sword users have no issue swapping to their secondary weapon." Therefore no need for stunlock.

This has to be rage bait right? Im assuming you’re implying that the sword would be absolutely fine if you kept it how it is and removed the stun. If you were to take the stun off the current iteration of sword, in what situations would anyone ever be slashed more than once before just sprinting out of range? I’m all for encouraging players to utilize their secondary weapons, but what you’re talking about would take sword from underpowered to completely unusable.

These are all issues with skill, not with the weapons. What you actually want is to be better at the game, but the game gives you a dozen different utility crutches to lean on, so you think you need more.

This is quite the take, especially since the goal of the suggested changes was to encourage players to actually use the other utilities of sword, and to make sword actually fun to use. Saying that I am suggesting more utility because the weapon already provides so much utility and I subconsciously feel I need more to be better at the game is not only entirely speculative, it also just makes absolutely no sense.

@utmxst
First of all, there are no improvements to the hit registration of any guns. They just show hit markers and then you either get the registered shot or not, and sometimes even the hit marker doesn’t show because the server packet gets lost.

Second, to actually improve the sword and make it more usable, it needs to be more skill-based. The Bone Caller already makes the sword stronger, because the sword can hit enemies through skeletons while bullets get blocked by them. Skeletons also can’t be one-shot with a pistol and sometimes not even with a blunder. On top of that, they can be stacked by each team member, so if your team has enough Bone Callers, you can spawn anywhere from 3 to 11 skeletons on the enemy ship without a cooldown. Guns are extremely ineffective against these skeletons since the pistol can’t one-shot them.

I don’t think it's possible with the current state of the game hit registration and server-client architecture to fix this without major changes. For example:

Adding a parry mechanic to the sword would help.

Double pistol is almost unplayable because of the input delay between pressing the button and the gun firing.

The harpoon gun doesn’t allow you to board a ship (unless it's a galleon) and is useless in combat.

Knives have terrible hit registration and terrible projectile speed.

The blowpipe is basically as useless as the harpoon gun.

I suggest adding an additional weapon slot for these weaker tools (like the harpoon gun or blowpipe) to make them viable options instead of replacing core weapons. Also, please bring back the ability to swap weapons while on another team’s ship.