@hieroglyphe7 The sword is also not the answer since a sword is a melee ranged weapon and guns are inherently not. Quickswapping from more than 10 feet away outright defeats the sword. You guys can say "half a second doesn't matter" but a fight is a pile of split second decisions happening all at once. Everything you do in a fight is measured in fractions of a second. To say that half a second doesn't matter is stupid, when half a second is very very very very very often the difference between surviving because you had time to eat and dying because you didn't. It takes less than a second to dump a bucket and switch to food, and sometimes you have to decide between bucketing or eating in a tough fight. Having your opponent be able to stand away from you, and quickswap you makes it harder for any fight to be fair. The real solution is to do the thing that EVERY OTHER VIDEO GAME does where they have one gun pull out animation and they use that no matter what. "BuT iT'Ll mAkE tHe GuNpLaY cLuNkY" As if it's not already clunky, being the only FPS game where you only have guns that reload after one shot. Fixing jams and hitreg would do 10000000000X more for gunplay than making the entirety of combat worse for the entire playerbase to cater to people who keep using exploits and cheats.
Quickswap is a terrible idea you have repeatedly gotten rid of because it is a terrible idea. Don't put it back.
Feels like beating a dead horse...... The solution is simple. Re-balance all damage so double taps are literally impossible. That is why quick swap felt awful. Because it lead to many cheap deaths and made the game not fun. But weapon draw delay feels worse than cheap deaths. Re-balancing damage and removing draw delay is a win-win on both fronts. Combat will feel fluid and snappy like it did in year 1 (hit marker issues aside) and the cheap "awww man another double gunner so i got shot twice in 0.1 seconds
If you look closer, you'll see that I wasn't actually saying the plant is the gateway, but the flawed laws that prohibit(ed), access to it, which drives people to make connections with criminal sellers.
In the same way that refusing to budge on FoV (a harmless QoL update), drove thousands of players to "get their fix" on shady forums.
In a different vein, using cheats to get the FoV you want is not comparable because the options to do worse things are built into the program you are using.
FoV being strictly a cheat menu thing is a new development from the past few months. Before paks were cracked down on, players could "only" download FoV paks (of course they would likely download a lot more than FoV, which is the point I'm making).
As usual, your takes are endlessly wrong.
Ironic.
Calling double gunners cheaters and exploiters is crazy... Calling the TDM/PVP community who dedicated thousands of hours into improving "Sweats who don't actually play the game" is even crazier...
Unfortunately I don't agree with anything you said in this post, and here are a couple of things:
Don't cater to the cheaters and exploiters
I don't know what your experiences with cheaters are, but they can quick swap already, we cannot, therefore bringing quick swap back would actually bring us to an equal ground in regard of weapon switching speed.
it's what will make current players never come back.
I have started playing before quick swap is patched, funny enough, a lot of my friends left the game because quick swap was fixed, they all had thousands of hours in the game. Even funnier, I told a few of my friends that quick swap was coming back, they decided to download the game again.
are you just buffing the thing that exploiters exploit?
Last time I watched the preview video, quick swap is going to be changed and its no longer an exploit. It used to be an exploit, as in it utilized game mechanisms to do something that was unintended. Now they are going to shorten weapon switching time so everyone can switch weapons faster, as far as my interpretation stands, we don't even have to do the little sprint to animation cancel anymore. This is not buffing an exploit, this is giving the buffs of a shortened gun switching time frame to every player.
To be brutally honest, I think you don't have that many hours in-game, or at least not enough hours in PVP contents such as hourglass. The skill gap in the game is huge, this does not mean we have to punish highly skilled players from being good at the game. Double gunning is a high risk high reward loadout which IMO was brutally hard to learn (we were all swabbies once), where if you miss a shot puts you in an immediate disadvantage against sword users. Additionally, with blunder nerfed, you also need to get into a close position with the enemy to land enough bullets for a 2-tap, or you could use the pistol but that takes away the stopping power blunder provides.
On a side-note, I hate swords too, just got slashed to death as soon as I respawned on my ship as I am typing this since I missed my first blunder, here are 2 options we could go regarding this:
-
Nerf swords, so gunners can stand a chance in a point blank situation against a sword after missing a shot.
-
Get good Atuo, you missed your first blunder point blank you have no excuses.
Which one is it going to be?
-
What players does Rare even stand to lose at this point? Y'all "current players" are acting like the game has been thriving and Rare is going to take a massive hit if they lose you. In reality, the game hasn't been over 10k concurrent players since July 2024. In fact, over the last year (including last 30 days, seeing as September is almost over) the game has averaged 6,595 avg. monthly concurrent players. In Sep 2023 - Aug 2024? 10,556 avg. monthly concurrent players. That marks a 46.3% drop off in players from year to year. I'm sorry but you "current players" aren't enough to sustain Rare, changes need to happen for SoT to continue. And I think Rare is right, they need to go back on controversial decisions that lost them players, change how they're approaching content delivery to ensure reliable results, and foster a stronger community again by encouraging different ways to play (including PvP).
@oo-atuo-oo I have over 1000 hours, over 1000 matches in hourglass, and am ally 470+. I know for a fact that I have the skill you think I don't. I got skeleton curse in 3 weeks as a solo, then ghost curse in 2 weeks as a duo. I'm considering stopping playing again once they introduce this mechanic as they are only doing it because they lack the technical skill to actually deal with quickswap exploits in any meaningful way, and they don't have the ability to address any real problems with the gunplay like hitreg, backtracking, and gun jams.
Nerf swords? You have to get 4 hits with a sword and you have to get 2 hits with a gun. Melee range vs range so far you can hit someone on another boat. The sword already is nerfed, and people who need every possible advantage to win because of a lack of skill are the only ones who complain about it.
@fysics3037 I took a 4 year hiatus from the game and have been playing nearly every day since december 2024. I'm one of the ones who came back, and I'm one of the ones who probably won't come back again.
@potatosord ok that doesn't mean much in the face of a rapidly declining player count. I'm sorry for you but would you not agree it's better for Rare to prioritize keeping the game active, relevant, and profitable compared to letting it continue to deteriorate until even dedicated players like yourself can no longer enjoy it?
@fysics3037 I've been enjoying most of the features they've added recently. I feel differently to you about why the game is declining. Rare is not taking the time or effort to make the game work at the absolute base level before they add more. Hitreg, foodreg, fake buckets, cannon reload desync, these are all issues that affect the game at a level that all players feel regardless of the way they play the game. These are issues that affect all players, even safer seas players. These are the things I want to see them actually try on instead of catering to people who use cheat menus and exploits. FoV is not going to bring the game back. Balance patches are not going to bring the game back. Making the game not a buggy mess is what will make people want to come back. Very few people who have quit the game will come back from FoV or QS. Imagine telling a friend to play SoT with you and they say "Nah I don't wanna play that buggy mess anymore" and you tell them that FoV and QS are coming as if those make up for the fact that you can wait for a piece of food to disappear and the next one to appear after it and your health doesn't go up, or for the long loads, or for the lack of actually trying to stop cheaters.
@potatosord I know a lot of long time dedicated players that quit after QS was removed. These are small steps that help, addressing hitreg, food reg, wave issues, etc etc are all more complex issues. And they already named most of those things as on their "list of fixes" coming to the game. Just quit until they fix it that's what everyone else is doing lol
@fysics3037 "Just quit until they fix it, that's what everyone else is doing" Thank you for validating my point entirely. People are not leaving en masse because QS was removed or because of the FoV is too limited, ignoring that 90 is pretty standard in gaming. People are leaving because the game just doesn't work so much of the time that its hard to have a nice experience. When I walk up a flight of stairs and throw my bucket of water and it teleports me back to the bottom of the stairs and forces me to backsplash causing me to sink when it was not my fault, that causes me to not want to play the game. When I eat to try to survive a keg, before the fire damage ends me and it decides I didn't actually eat, that makes me not want to play the game. When I hit a giga keg, offer instantly, run to the ferry door instantly, and run out the door instantly just to be forcibly long loaded because the game decided my ship sunk because they designed it in a way where you don't have enough time to save it it, that makes me not want to play the game. When I get hit by a continent sized lava rock that instantly puts grade 3s all over my lower hull, offer instantly, leave the ferry instantly, and my boat still sinks because it respawned me on the helm, not giving me enough time to get even a single bucket, thats what makes me not want to play. This game is FULL TO THE GOD DAMNED BRIM with things like that. I have a much much higher tolerance than most for BS like this, so I can understand why the player numbers are dropping so fast. These supposed "QoL improvements" not only won't help bring the game back, but will only help expedite its death. Fix what matters.
Nerf swords? You have to get 4 hits with a sword and you have to get 2 hits with a gun.
3 fast, guaranteed hits because of sword stun, with a nearly 360 degree radius, 1 to finish them; vs 2 precise hits on a moving target, with a 3-4 second reload if you miss.
Melee range vs range so far you can hit someone on another boat.
Melee range is one way of putting it. You can jump off a boat while sprinting and still die in midair from a sword lord that isn't even at the rail.
Add the sword lunge/dodge on top of that, and you have a weapon that is capable of
- Two taps
- Stunlocks
- Knockback
- Movement
- Multi-kills
- 1 second "cooldown"
- Blocks throwing knives
- Requires no aim
There's a reason why good PvPers will sometimes say something along the lines of "screw this, I'm putting on a sword" when their back is against the wall, and it's not because the sword is a balanced weapon lol. No other weapon in the game is anywhere near as stacked with utility/value.
people who need every possible advantage to win because of a lack of skill are the only ones who complain about it.
If this were true, they would just pick up a sword. It's not like sweaty players aren't using swords because it's such a "hard" weapon to learn, they think it's a boring way to play that requires no skill. Getting kills with swords is no where near as satisfying as a clean two tap.
@worst-tdmer The sword is only capable of two tapping if you do two charged attacks, which takes about as long as 6 normal swipes and reduces your mobility heavily. I find very few times when a sword lunge is worth it. If sword is such a broken weapon as you claim then they would be using it as the meta instead of mainly using double gun. Sword has a lot of tech to it that people don't think about, it's actually an incredibly skillful weapon. You are looking at it the same way as someone looking at double gun as point, click, point click. Kiting, dodging, and many other things are sword tech that have a high skill ceiling. I consistently use sword to pretty good outcomes against double guns because I don't just hold w and spam m1. I chase, but not directly. Not just following the same path as you, but I'm anticipating how you're trying to herd me, then countering by going in a direction where you move yourself into my sword. Especially after you jump over the rail on helm, I might jump the rail on the stairs and slice you a couple times before you hit the ground. Speaking of which, in a moment like that, the 0.5 seconds saved for double gunners by QS is something that might make the difference
The sword is only capable of two tapping if you do two charged attacks
Lunge into pistol/EoR/blunder; swipe into blunder.
If sword is such a broken weapon as you claim then they would be using it as the meta instead of mainly using double gun.
Like I said before, a lot of sweaty players will swap to a sword when their back is against the wall. Doesn't get more meta than that. Most prefer not to because it's a boring way to play and generally seen as a no-skill weapon.
Sword has a lot of tech to it that people don't think about, it's actually an incredibly skillful weapon. You are looking at it the same way as someone looking at double gun as point, click, point click. Kiting, dodging, and many other things are sword tech that have a high skill ceiling. I consistently use sword to pretty good outcomes against double guns because I don't just hold w and spam m1. I chase, but not directly. Not just following the same path as you, but I'm anticipating how you're trying to herd me, then countering by going in a direction where you move yourself into my sword. Especially after you jump over the rail on helm, I might jump the rail on the stairs and slice you a couple times before you hit the ground. Speaking of which, in a moment like that, the 0.5 seconds saved for double gunners by QS is something that might make the difference
These are "techs" that aren't specific to sword, just movement/pathing. Not saying you're bad with a sword, just the ceiling for sword is not high compared to other weapons, and the skill floor is rock bottom.
@potatosord It might not matter to you but issues like QS and FoV do matter to players. And supposedly them working on adding features like this doesn't really impact the people working on fixing wave desync, hitreg, etc. It's the same "team" at Rare but not necessarily the same people. Some things are just a lot more complex and require a lot more work than others. Adding more FoV controls to the game was relatively simple. We have yet to see just how involved the QS changes are going to be/how long they will take but I imagine it won't too much comparatively. An unsung change of this patch was the DPI glitch getting fixed. That's been something commonly abused for a long time that was just fixed. The fact that they're actually taking positive actions and showing that this new team can produce results and quickly is huge. The game might not be in a good state yet, but to most people these changes show Rare is actually trying now, and public perception is everything right now. Just be patient and see if the changes you want come through, if they don't then don't play.
@karkona Fixing issues at the core of the game would make combat smoother than anything they can do with QS and FoV
Yea reg’s gonna affect everything but the fact that the sword STUNS is a big issue, and even if it doesn’t you are still being messed up by the hits, so it’s completely sane to say sword counters double gunning
i dont see why its so unbelievably offensive to people (people that dont know how to aim a gun) that sot (like every other pvp game) would have techniques that require a good amount of skill to utilise and that people with less skill would have to learn how to counter it or become as skillful
it makes me wonder if these people have EVER played another game? just because YOU want to be able to spam click sword and win doesnt mean everyone else wants to turn their brain off and do that, some people want to genuinely be good at the gamei also think removing quickswap in the first place literally hasnt helped anyone at all, they lowered the skill ceiling but the people who were complaining about it still arent very good at the game where as those who cared about the techniques inherent in the games combat continued to practice it in different ways (delayswap)
ALL it has done is made guns clunky, there are situations where your gun does not fire, situations where it takes SECONDS extra than its supposed to be able to fire weapons which is by far the clunkiest weapon system ive ever seen in a game when the combat was fairly interesting and the biggest issue was reg beforehandalso funny launch was good, and i barely knew how to do it :)
@worst-tdmer cook! Also bring back one blunder as it was nerfed due to the harpoon gun being op….. then they nerfed the harpoon prior to launch in high seas but left the blunder.
The sword is THE most broken weapon
@potatosord said in Quickswap is a terrible idea you have repeatedly gotten rid of because it is a terrible idea. Don't put it back.:
Quickswap is a terrible idea you have repeatedly gotten rid of because it is a terrible idea and has always been an exploit. Don't put it back. Don't cater to the cheaters and exploiters.
Actually cheaters always had access to quickswap, nowadays when you waiting for end of animation you already being two tapped by them. With returning of QS legit players will have more chances to win against cheaters.
Stop catering to the loud sweats who don't actually play the game.
The ones who you call 'loud sweats' was the most active players who was spending days playing SoT back in the days. Those players brought into the game NAL, TAE and TDM leagues with self hosted tournaments.
@swagalisous7451 said in Quickswap is a terrible idea you have repeatedly gotten rid of because it is a terrible idea. Don't put it back.:
Yea reg’s gonna affect everything but the fact that the sword STUNS is a big issue, and even if it doesn’t you are still being messed up by the hits, so it’s completely sane to say sword counters double gunning
Na, you aren't supposed to be able to approach someone that uses double gun, especially one using a blunderbuss, you are dead before reaching him, if a sword can approach a double gunner it's only due to lack of skill or awareness from the double gunner (or hit reg happened, but this is not gonna be fixed anytime soon, double gunner should indeed ask hit reg to be fixed before asking for quick swap)
"Na, you aren't supposed to be able to approach someone that uses double gun, especially one using a blunderbuss, you are dead before reaching him, if a sword can approach a double gunner it's only due to lack of skill or awareness from the double gunner (or hit reg happened, but this is not gonna be fixed anytime soon, double gunner should indeed ask hit reg to be fixed before asking for quick swap)"
Exactly my point. Double gun has a shorter TTK than sword, takes less hits, and can do so from much further away, and if you use blunder you can do up to 90 damage and knockback that stops a sword user from even hitting you, then two tap him with your other gun. A skilled double gunner can still beat me regardless of how good my movement is. If I try to kite him, like the example I used in a previous message, he could shoot me with a blunder, pushing me away before I can hurt him, then get a second hit on me before I can recover. If the game worked properly at a base level, the supposed need for quickswap would be diminished because we wouldn't have 10 pellets hitting a target, doing 0 damage and no knockback, leading to a Dgunner dying for a reason that is not their fault. Quickswap is a bandaid for a much deeper issue of game stability. Hitreg is not an issue in basically any other FPS game, though no other FPS game takes place on a physics realised ocean either, so I get how its hard, but it's something that will positively affect game health more than FoV and QS ever could. Even with QS being added, hitreg will still be an issue, possibly a worse issue with shorter times between shots, so no matter how fast you can swap your gun you still have a significant chance of your shot not even hitting because the game decided so.
Isn’t it appropriate for a skilled double gunner to always be able to beat someone who’s using grapple/sword, though? Two weapons versus one? Pistol/sword is a nice combo.
There are two weapon slots, I don’t think the game should be balanced around those who choose to use only one. If someone only uses pistol, or snipe, or blunder, and they go against someone of equal skill who’s only using sword, my money is on the sword player. But there are two weapon slots…
@capt-greldik Did you even read what I said? Yes. A double gunner should always beat a sword user, if all things are equal. Not all things are equal though, and that's why I can take advantage of my skill with the sword to win most of the time. I admitted that as long as there is no hitreg issues, a double gun should always be able to push away and kill a sword user. I did not say I think the sword is too weak in that, even once. I said that guns are stronger than sword inherently, which is a non issue. Adding quick swap as a feature is not the solution to the other issues that plague gun users. Quickswap will not make gun jams go away, it will not make hitreg go away. You will still have to deal with the same clunky base system. You will swap faster to your other gun and shoot and still be miffed when you get to the ferry because your blunder full reg'd and you got blended by my rapier.
@potatosord did you read what he said? He said a dbl gun would beat a SWORD/HARPOON then went on to say he would put his money on a EOR/Sword combo over a dbl gun.
Hitbo doesn’t dbl gun and can seemingly handle his own as do many other prominent names. I get the frustration against dbl gunning, but as a former dbl gunner it’s WAY harder now that blunder isn’t 1 hit. It’s the reason I went back to sword. It’s easier and honestly the most op
@potatosord said in Quickswap is a terrible idea you have repeatedly gotten rid of because it is a terrible idea. Don't put it back.:
@capt-greldik Did you even read what I said? Yes. A double gunner should always beat a sword user, if all things are equal. Not all things are equal though, and that's why I can take advantage of my skill with the sword to win most of the time. I admitted that as long as there is no hitreg issues, a double gun should always be able to push away and kill a sword user. I did not say I think the sword is too weak in that, even once. I said that guns are stronger than sword inherently, which is a non issue. Adding quick swap as a feature is not the solution to the other issues that plague gun users. Quickswap will not make gun jams go away, it will not make hitreg go away. You will still have to deal with the same clunky base system. You will swap faster to your other gun and shoot and still be miffed when you get to the ferry because your blunder full reg'd and you got blended by my rapier.
Did you even read what I said? You made a choice of utility over lethality. You made the choice to use grapple gun to assist with your boarding, you’re using one weapon. We can’t have a quickswap discussion revolving around someone using one weapon versus quick swapping two guns. Anyswap is greater than noswap.
One gun versus one sword, equal skill, the sword wins. How does that equate to “guns being inherently stronger”? The premise of your argument is that quickswap is op, which is a double gunner method, not single gun. Of course two guns should be stronger than one weapon of any type. You’re putting yourself at a disadvantage by using one weapon.
Any discussion about whether quickswap is op shouldn’t be based on how it manages versus someone who’s only using one weapon. Use two weapons, swap them using the new timers, problem solved?
@potatosord said in Quickswap is a terrible idea you have repeatedly gotten rid of because it is a terrible idea. Don't put it back.:
Adding quick swap as a feature is not the solution to the other issues that plague gun users. Quickswap will not make gun jams go away, it will not make hitreg go away. You will still have to deal with the same clunky base system. You will swap faster to your other gun and shoot and still be miffed when you get to the ferry because your blunder full reg'd and you got blended by my rapier.
This change might not get rid of all gun jamming, but it will definitely improve it by a lot.
Most of the gun jamming revolves around the quickswap prevention system, which punishes you if you try to shoot quick.
I honestly dont remember if gun jams were a problem before that. Now that that system is no longer needed, since quickswap speed is now the normal swap speed (rare is not adding quickswap back btw.), it will get rid of gun jamming.
The clunkyness will not be an issue anymore, because it being any quicker than that is just ridiculous and noone wants instaswap times back.
If you think thats what the PvP community wanted, then you're very wrong.And of course it wont get rid of Hitreg, as its a completely separate problem and noone assumed this is a fix for it, because it obviously isnt.
I dont know why you even mentioned this.I distinctly remember gun jamming becoming an issue only after the removal of quickswap.
I remember posting about it and people telling me "iTs BeCausE yoU're TrYing tO qUicKsWap". Felt like I was going crazy cuz nobody seemed to notice it until it started getting worse and worse.
@potatosord soooo.... no, most people who access FOV have no direct access to real cheat programs. They used paks which are single files uploaded to client side of sea of thieves. (I think I can talk about these cus they are discussed in Rare updates) These are way different from cheat engines, which cost money and can affect a lot more than the visual field. When rare last cracked down on paks, months after their anti-cheat push which targeted cheat engine users, they realized that a lot of people had specifically the fov paks downloaded. My guess is they realized they miscalculated how many people really valued fov and decided that instead of trying to fight the narrative they would adapt to the community.
