Suggestions on PVP side of the game

The PVP community makes up for the majority of the high-hours playtime for the game

Disagree. The pvpve community players keep it up most.

The current status of PVP makes defeat hurt badly and teams disband after 1-2 defeats. After each defeat the team has to go through a very tedious process of searching for and organizing supplies

Well yeah. Losing is meant to be bad and hurt but also a learning experience. What did you do wrong? How to improve.
And the whole “has to get supplies” is such a player issue. Not games.

When players choose to participate in PVP or dives with hourglass, the ships are prepared in advance with supplies ready

Starters. You’re always ready for pvp each ship has enough supplies when you load a new ship.
As for hourglass. You’re still in an open adventure world, so when you choose to dive or defend you keep whatever supplies you have.
Having a max amount won’t fix anything because it comes down to the player.

the current status of the game requires players to get a high win streak in order to achieve some sort of satisfaction from playing the game

Meanwhile us normal players get satisfaction just from having a pvp match. Win or lose, hourglsss is working.

How I choose to fight is my style. If I wanna sink my own ship and give you a “free win” while giving you a streak is my choice.
If I choose to run around the map and waste time, out lasting the mental game. My choice. (Farmers)

Seems to be. Pvp or rather hourglass is working but you demand more to fix issues besides cheaters that aren’t an issue.
Supplies aren’t the problem. It’s the players who think “if only I had more supplies” are.
It’s not farmers who are the issue. It’s the players who can’t take a win because they didn’t fight.

Side note: farmers lose so you get more wins. After awhile you’re gonna be in a pool of players who only wanna fight. The results of the farmers. (Nobody thinks of this)

Cheaters. Well that just up to Rare.

@burnbacon do you have an actual argument against faster supplying for hourglass. It would be the best QoL update hourglass could ever get. The worst part about hourglass is how long it takes to requeue

@captain-knyt said in Suggestions on PVP side of the game:

@burnbacon do you have an actual argument against faster supplying for hourglass. It would be the best QoL update hourglass could ever get. The worst part about hourglass is how long it takes to requeue

It will be even more unfair than the current supply.

If you are up against a loss farmer, all of a sudden you have double the "PvP supplies"with just a bit of harpooning, next match against a fresh spawn means you'll have almost twice as much supplies as your opponent.
At least currently, you have to do something to get a load of supplies.

@lem0n-curry The difference between having 500 cannonballs and 1000 cannonballs is moot

The difference between 80 cannonballs and 160 cannonballs is more important.

You should automatically start with enough supplies to put up a decent fight, on bigger boats the default supplies last you maybe 5 minutes at most. Losing to supplies is only ever boring, so is winning due to supplies.

It doesn't matter if you have twice the supplies of your opponent, if you both have enough supplies to get a sink in a reasonable time.

It's simply a timesaver, so you can skip the boring part of getting supplies (and taking supplies from sinks) and just get into the action

In my eyes it would have the opposite effect of what you say

@captain-knyt said in Suggestions on PVP side of the game:

@lem0n-curry The difference between having 500 cannonballs and 1000 cannonballs is moot

You want the HG starting supplies to include 500 cannonballs ?
I assume a hunderd planks and a couple of dozen good fruit as well.

So after one hour glass match will leave them with enough supplies (especially if it's a short one) to last a long session if it's the only match and they continue playing standard adventure ?

Losing to supplies is only ever boring, so is winning due to supplies.

If you're losing due to supplies: you should have prepared better (if you only have the default supplies).
Winning due to supplies: Preperation pays.

@lem0n-curry Yeah, that would also be a good incentive to play a match of hourglass, filling up the queues. You don't need a lot of starting supplies for adventure anyways, you get lots during your session.

If you're losing due to supplies: you should have prepared better (if you only have the default supplies).

That's exactly why it shouldn't take forever to do, prep is boring, actually getting fights is fun

@captain-knyt said in Suggestions on PVP side of the game:

@lem0n-curry Yeah, that would also be a good incentive to play a match of hourglass, filling up the queues. You don't need a lot of starting supplies for adventure anyways, you get lots during your session.

If you're losing due to supplies: you should have prepared better (if you only have the default supplies).

That's exactly why it shouldn't take forever to do, prep is boring, actually getting fights is fun

But it doesn't take forever, just about 5 minutes so that's hyperbole.

Also, take a look from the other side. Two crews with "PvP Supplies" fight their first match of their session, they're evenly matched and it takes quite some time and supplies to end it. They're almost finished with their supplies when finally one crew wins.
They (the winner) now have very limited supplies - even when they harpoon the barrels of their opponent.

The losing crew can start almost immediately again (after some gg's and the sinking intermission, server move, raise emissary and voting for HG), while the winning crew now must spend considerable time to find & buy enough supplies to have a chance to fight another crew that probably has at least the "starting PvP supplies".

@lem0n-curry Yes it's just 5 minutes, but it's 5 frankly unnecessary minutes every single time you sink. If you're having a bad day in hg and sink a lot, you have to keep doing the same 5 minute ritual every time you sink, it's mentally draining

As for your second point, that could be solved by you getting a minimum of supplies every time you dive for hourglass (it would be extra convenient if it was placed straight into a dedicated hourglass storage crate placed upon your deck when diving). Then if you didn't have a lot of supplies you would automatically be topped up, but if you already had a lot of supplies it wouldn't start to overflow with too many supplies

prep is boring

It's simply a timesaver, so you can skip the boring part of getting supplies

Nobody said getting prepared for Work should be fun...(it a real world thing) best learn that lesson. Collecting supplies, getting ready is all players issue. You chose to do this, Dont and you find more fights quicker.

The difference between 80 cannonballs and 160 cannonballs is more important.

and difference between 10 cannon balls vs a ship is simple sink. With 'good' aim. And yes..Ive sun ships by firing only 10 shots, each hit.

Yes it's just 5 minutes, but it's 5 frankly unnecessary minutes every single time you sink.

Than, dont waste those 5 min....

You also forget. Majority of players dont even bother shooting cannon balls anymore, not supplies wasted. Board, Spawn camp, drop anchor and sail your ship out of bounds.
So your extra supplies...worthless.

So what is your idea on Once you win, and you have all these supplies, you basically have more supplies than a new spawn ship who isnt HG and you are free to roam the seas with fully stacked ship. No work...that isnt fair to those not doing HG
and Third party ships who join the fight, come in and say...use Barrelball or Peaceball. Now what? All those supplies are doomed..

Bottom line: More supplies, extra supplies, starting supplies...doesnt solve your problem. It all you.
Choices. Deciding on what to do and how to handle it.

@burnbacon said in Suggestions on PVP side of the game:

Honestly, I think you are disagreeing for the sake of disagreement, let me break down what I mean for you:

Disagree. The pvpve community players keep it up most. >

And hence the PVPVE community is part of the PVP community, whereas PVP community refers to any players who is actively playing the PVP aspects of the game and actively learning how to improve PVP skills. Of course all PVP players would go for a world event every now and then, that doesn't mean they are no longer part of the PVP community and in a new "PVPVE community".

Well yeah. Losing is meant to be bad and hurt but also a learning experience. What did you do wrong? How to improve.
And the whole “has to get supplies” is such a player issue. Not games.

You are right, that goes for pretty much every game, losing is meant to make you hurt bad, that does not mean we have to punish new players for losing any more by having them go through a 5 minutes process of scraping the island. Personally, I have learned the game enough and able to get streaks for a satisfactory gameplay, I am asking this on behalf of the swabbie crews I have matched up against and managed to sink them within minutes. The process of getting back into the game and rediving for another match is too long and redundant and causes these swabbies to rather disband their team. YES, this is a player issue, they need to get good. YES, there are things we could do to help them to improve QoL in aim of getting a good player base willing to learn the game.

Starters. You’re always ready for pvp each ship has enough supplies when you load a new ship.
As for hourglass. You’re still in an open adventure world, so when you choose to dive or defend you keep whatever supplies you have.
Having a max amount won’t fix anything because it comes down to the player.

It might be enough for you, I'm sure 90 cannons, 16 coconuts and 16 bananas split between 4 players in a galleon fight is not nearly enough for the majority of the players. We should be referring to the average player base instead of your opinion right? After all, TDM rammers probably won't need cannons at all, and you will always find players thinking a completely empty starter ship is fine too.

Meanwhile us normal players get satisfaction just from having a pvp match. Win or lose, hourglsss is working.

How I choose to fight is my style. If I wanna sink my own ship and give you a “free win” while giving you a streak is my choice.
If I choose to run around the map and waste time, out lasting the mental game. My choice. (Farmers)

It seems like you are misunderstanding what I meant by farmers, I don't know what your experience with PVP is, but there are farmers who would scuttle their ship instantly as the match begin, and then sinking, their opponent does not get an increase in their streak, the streak stays the same. To make this clearer, here is an example:

I have a 4 streak - I dive - I match up - we emerge from the water - enemy scuttle and sunk before the match begun - I stay as 4 streak.

Here is another instance:

I have 4 streak - I match up - black screen - farmer matches up and realizes they didn't match up with their friends or alt accs - alt f4 before emerging - I get sent back to an outpost and tells us unable to find opponent - sometimes buggs out my war map which requires me to restart the game.

I do not have an issue with loss farmers, I do not have an issue with runners although I believe something could be done to prevent this, I do not have a problem with TDMers, I have a problem with players who are trying to match up with their friends and scuttle for a high streak which results in wasting time for another crew. I also have a problem with players who are trying to start a business selling levels to other players which resulted in this phenomenal to become so common in the Asia servers we cannot go a day without encountering them.

@burnbacon said in Suggestions on PVP side of the game:

Nobody said getting prepared for Work should be fun...(it a real world thing) best learn that lesson. Collecting supplies, getting ready is all players issue. You chose to do this, Dont and you find more fights quicker.

The difference is, I get paid for work, we play games to relax, not work, the QoL could be improved. Is it something that renders the game completely unplayable? No. Is it something that could make everyone's life better? Yes. This is a suggestion in how to make the game better, of course we could just simply "not waste time" by diving instantly with starter supplies.

and difference between 10 cannon balls vs a ship is simple sink. With 'good' aim. And yes..Ive sun ships by firing only 10 shots, each hit.

I have TDMed ships into sinking with only 1 tier 2 hole, due to a massive skill diff of course. 10 cannons = 5 tier 3 holes or 10 tier 2 holes, both EASILY manageable with a competent bilge and flex on a galleon, completely manageable with 1 player on sloop and brigantine. You are talking about instances where there is a massive skill diff, or the opponent simply does not know what they are doing.

You also forget. Majority of players dont even bother shooting cannon balls anymore, not supplies wasted. Board, Spawn camp, drop anchor and sail your ship out of bounds.

Play more HG, I can guarantee you the "majority" of players don't board and spawn camp... I have 1700-1800 allegiance levels and 3500+ hrs in-game, not a lot, what are your hours? I can also guarantee you it is not as easy as you say to just board and spawn camp... I challenge you to camp my crew and do all that magic you are talking about. You need a major skill diff to spawn camp, especially in TDM.

and Third party ships who join the fight, come in and say...use Barrelball or Peaceball. Now what? All those supplies are doomed..

You really don't have much hours in HG huh... Barrelball barely has any effect as nobody stores their supps in barrels anymore, peaceball only lasts for a few seconds. I don't know if you will agree with me on this, probably not, but the skill diff between a HG ship and a casual ship you meet on the high seas is huge, bad luck if you meet another HG crew doing world events or emissary hunting.

You are disagreeing for the sake of disagreements, all your arguments go around the theme of "get good". The suggestions are here for ideas of increasing QoL for swabbie crews and assisting them to improve, or at least decrease the sunken cost for learning the game. The ideas are of course drafts of a rough idea, how to implement them or whether or not to implement them is up to Rare.

You are disagreeing for the sake of disagreements

I disagree because I don’t have an issue where players make the issues. Simple as that

What else is simple. Is I seem to enjoy the current playground as it is and see no reason to change it.
Your wanting change because it’s “boring” well it’s boring to login, move to a ship and fire cannons at players who rather board. But that just how players work.

Some of us do get paid playing games though xD

@burnbacon

You are mistaking issues with suggestions. I do not have an "issue" with the game, these are suggestions of how the game can be improved to retain the most amount of players, especially swabbies and newcomers who would spend most of their time sinking and losing. Of course there will be players like you who would reflect on their matches and actively improving, spending time scraping islands or even doing a fortress or 2 just to get supplies. It is not hard to identify that there would be more players willing to attempt PVP or get good at it if they hade supplies ready and all the the other QoL features that would make requeuing less tedious. A game thrives off a large playerbase and a large portion of players who are willing to learn the game. After all, I am benefiting from matchmaking swabbies where I just sink them as easy as stepping on an ant. Cheaters are issues, farmers who exploit the matchmaking system using bugs to dodge matchmaking are issues. PVP ready ships and other stuff are suggestions that many players believe would make the game even better if. Having suggestions does not mean this is a rubbish game, it certainly isn't perfect either. We are writing these suggestions to help improve.

@oo-atuo-oo hg shoulda had set supplies (or at least minimum supps)/insta requeue years ago. It's wild to me Rare wants people to spend 5 minutes to get back in queue, which can take another 5 minutes, to play HG. And the crazier part to me is that people will say that's how it should be 😂

I used to suck at PvP, then I got into HG for the curses. Ultimately, I got good. Pro tip for anyone who sucks at hourglass and wants to improve: Stop buying so many supplies. When was the last time you ran out of wood or cannonballs? When was the last time you used more than 50 cannonballs in a fight? When you lose, do you lose because of lack of supplies or because you can't keep up with the pressure? Always buy pineapples, those are the only food worth having. Meat can saturate you and give extra health, but you have to wait too long for that extra health to actually matter in a fight. 99% of my HG matches are on default supps+pines. I win more often than I lose. Ally 465 (350 serv 115 guard). Food wins me more battles than cannonballs ever have, to the point where I had a kick on doing only evil mode in hourglass. I would immediately full right my wheel, then board, and burn their boat down while swording them over and over until they sink. Literally winning without using a cannonball, relying solely on food and fire.

Honestly, looking back at Rares history with Theb, they do not actually care that much about stopping cheaters. I have seen multiple occasions where Theb was banned while fighting a cheater, who themselves was not banned. Rare was hunting him with a ferocity that makes me wonder how good the game would be if they focused their energy on the game instead of banning one guy they don't like over and over again to the point of false DMCAing his channel to make him stop playing.

"In conclusion, the current status of the game requires players to get a high win streak in order to achieve some sort of satisfaction from playing the game" Only if you think so little of yourself that you only hold value in winning more instead of just winning. I get satisfaction from every win I have.

"It also punishes players hardly for defeats (losing all resources and require players to go gather resources again). This is devastating for newer players getting into PVP as they WILL sink a lot." And they will have to learn, like you did, like I did, that you don't need to waste all that money on supplies. Chances are likely that your opponent has default supps.

"A nice cover will get people to start reading a book, but we need good content in the book to keep readers reading." We have it, you just aren't good at it apparently.

@captain-knyt Just buy pineapples and queue. If you can't win on default supps, you probably weren't going to win anyways.

@oo-atuo-oo You get paid for work, but you do not get paid to shower for work. You do not get paid to get dressed for work. You do not get paid to drive to work. You get paid when you are at work. In this analogy, getting ready and driving to work are resupping, and working is hourglass, your payment is XP. It would make everyones lives better if we all got paid to drive to work, but that would be unfair because it would help some people disproportionately to others.

@hieroglyphe7 A level requirement for HG would just make the servers even more dead. Less people would play it because inherently more people would be locked out of it by default

@potatosord

Read your post, I am assuming you are talking about solo sloop because it sounds like it. Here are a couple points I would like to point out:

1. I am agreeing with you on this regard, the startup items in a sloop is sufficient for a solo sloop match, even without buying captain supps and other supps. 60 cannons means you could refill your inv 5 times, 4 chains would be more than enough to break the opponent mast with some practice in aiming. Additionally, most of the opponents I personally met on solo sloop were indeed on default supplies. Which then leads on to point 2.

2. HG does not only consist of solo sloop, there is also duo sloop, brigantine, and galleon. Both galleon and brigantine have 90 cannons in them by default, therefore averages to 30 cannons and a little more than 5 coconuts per member on brigantine. The galleon averages to 22.5 cannons and 4 coconuts per member on a team. You see the point? I would think it completely reasonable if they gave 240 cannons by default on galleon, 180 for brigantine, and 120 for duo sloop. I can guarantee you the default supplies are not enough for a galleon fight.

3. Just like bacon dude, you are talking about instances with a huge skill gap, where your opponent allowed you to board and spawn camp him until sunk. It is not rocket science to work out if you had an opponent of equivalent skill, he would not lose to you in tdm over and over again to the point where he sinks purely to fire. I play HG on all ship types, I cannot count how many swabbies I have sunk so quickly where they probably spent more time preparing than playing. The QoL suggestions would benefit them, lets do some simple math, a newcomer team gally averaging of 500 hours, knowing the PVE side of the game and now wanting to improve in PVP gets matched up with pros. What are the chances? My bet is that they would sink within 2 minutes, so therefore do you see where it doesn't add up? Spending 5 minutes stocking, 5 minutes matchmaking, sinking in 2 minutes, I would probably move on to another game because this game is simply so unwelcoming. We want to work a way out of this, we want to welcome new players, we want to aid newcomers into learning the game, not just step on them on like an ant and tell them to get good.

On to quotes now:

Only if you think so little of yourself that you only hold value in winning more instead of just winning. I get satisfaction from every win I have.

You become champion ships after 4 streaks, which increases the xp you gain from winning a game, this is designed by Rare, which means I need to reach at least 80% win rate in my games to be able to get the maximum level of satisfaction designed by the system, it is also the streak which gives you the maximum return when lowering. Of course, you might argue that one does not "need to" get a 4 streak, but you are not getting the most out of your games.

And they will have to learn, like you did, like I did, that you don't need to waste all that money on supplies. Chances are likely that your opponent has >default supps.

Remember, we want an expanding player base, not a dying player base, if the threshold is so high just to learn PVP, chances are newer players are not willing to learn them. There is no escape in life, we can't just say "I ain't doing this" and escape life, but they can escape SOT if they feel this game is extremely harsh on newcomers. My suggestions always revolve around reducing the threshold and helping newcomers learn, not just give them the L and tell them to get good by themselves.

We have it, you just aren't good at it apparently.

I have over triple your allegiance levels... (1120 serv, 650 guard) Its crazy to just say that I am not good at it xD

On a side note, I have your ID remembered, looking forward to see you TDM me to sunk in solo queue hourglass :D

@oo-atuo-oo For all things other than solo sloop I would generally tend to agree with you. That said, nothing you said would indicate which version of HG you are talking about, and it mostly comes across as stuff I hear a lot of solo sloopers complain about.

3.) I would accept that as more likely if it wasn't literally the only way I played HG for almost a month. It's not a skill gap, many of these players were not easy to beat. I won more often than I lost. Keep in mind I have been playing HG for less than 3 total IRL months, and it's not the main way I play SoT.

So number go up is the only satisfaction you get from HG? I enjoy playing the mode, regardless of wins or losses or even my opponent taking it seriously.

So we should make the game a hugbox that holds your hand through everything? That's the reason why the playerbase is the way it is, so conflict averse. People need to understand that they are buying a PvP game where people will fight them. As long as we keep making it easier to just press one button and have what we want, we will be slowly smothering the game in supposed good intentions. The gold economy is already ruined beyond belief. In Lost Gold Fort, there is a list of the top 10 earners in the entire beta. That was months long, and only 2 of them even passed 2 million gold. Now you can do a mega stash and leave with 1.2mn gold on a single world event. Royal Crest Fort is going to have a 175k gold payout for one item. I currently have more gold in my account than the entire list of people in lost gold fort put together. It no longer feels rewarding to buy cosmetics because we make so much money now that the joy of working to save up for that cool sword is gone. Even without an emissary, you could make 400k on a mega stash, and that alone is enough to buy a galleon. During that event, a player could log in, do 3 skeleton forts, and have enough gold to buy a new ship and everything they think looks cool for their pirate and ship, then they never play again because they already have what they wanted in one day. If we want more people to play SoT, Rare needs to be more transparent about what the game is. People stop playing way more because they get mad when someone sinks them in adventure mode. People coming into this game not expecting it to be the way it is get shocked and skill gapped and mad about being sunk. In a pirate game. They get mad that you steal from them on the seas in a game named "Sea of Thieves. It's not a game problem, its an expectations problem.

Triple my levels, more than triple my play time, probably more than triple my hourglass play time. Levels in hourglass are not a measure of skill, they are a measure of how little you respect your time. I could already be double gold if I wanted to. I did the math and if I played HG for 8 hours a day, at my current progression rate, I could go from 0 to double gold in less than 2 months. I have occasionally hit 30+ levels a day on hard grinds, more than once.

@potatosord For solo sloop you only need fruit

for brig or gally you will not have a good time like that

@oo-atuo-oo You get paid for work, but you do not get paid to shower for work. You do not get paid to get dressed for work. You do not get paid to drive to work. You get paid when you are at work. In this analogy, getting ready and driving to work are resupping, and working is hourglass, your payment is XP. It would make everyones lives better if we all got paid to drive to work, but that would be unfair because it would help some people disproportionately to others.

It's a video game, why do you want this tedious mechanic to stay. The limits are endless

Sure it's not explicitly required, such is the nature of QoL updates. Strictly unnecessary but welcome nonetheless

@huibuh34 The only thing you need to do to make sure your opponent sinks to fire is kill them after their boat is on fire. Don't give them time to do anything but fight. I've done it as a solo sloop to every class of boat. Done it to 4 man galleys.

@hieroglyphe7 said in Suggestions on PVP side of the game:

also adventure players wouldn't see the difference without hourglass players, in fact they would see more action in their own servers

No.

No, they would not.

@burnbacon

Let’s break a few things down. High level HG players have a MASSIVE involvement in keeping the game afloat idbz…….

When hg gets old or boring or broken they come to adventure and wreck most every crew taking all the higher tier loot.

My friend group talks a lot about how if I were just starting this game I would 100% uninstall the game and never touch it again. It’s easily one of the most toxic games at times.

I generally have good-great play sessions. 2 days ago it was 5 hours before we could get a voyage done due to broken dive mechanics. Those mechanics leading to full gold hg crews bumping into us repeatedly. One of which I knew and was talking with and they were on the 7th fof and 12th new voyage steal due to hg not allowing a match.

I think the vast majority of newer hg players and SERIOUS hg players spend $ and time stocking the ship to get rolled by the first team to spend 20+ minutes resupping so I get the argument.

Hg should be on stand alone servers imo. It ends the toxic 3rd party players just out to ruin a players experience. I’ve had brigs chase me as a solo sloop with a 2 streak just to prevent me selling one flag and lowering. Which the get no real reward for and most the time when I’m on a ship that does this it’s usually a “hey lets go ruin their day” kinda thing.

Once I have the game 100% commendation wise I doubt I’ll have a reason to play anymore. The developers aren’t really giving new players a reason to stick it out to learn, players playing since day one watching the game peak and then rapidly fall. I have been a huge defender of SOT on the forums through the years but this game is dying.

I’ve had 3 new voyages just be a kid or streamer that takes the key to reapers lair and throws it in the lava just to troll. No interest in the voyage, game, simply to rage bait then use obscenities in game as they spawn camped new crews.

“Scuttle and leave to new seas” we saw this occurring on multiple servers. The game has taken a turn and it wasn’t for the better unfortunately

@hieroglyphe7 If PL was required for HG I wouldn't have been able to play HG. I started off as a swabbie, and I can admit that I thought I was almost good at the game then, and I wasn't even close. I was a swab. But I learned to enjoy it and I got the cool bones curse from it eventually, and then the glowstick curse too. Now I'm more than 1/3 of the way to gold bones. We don't need a level limit on HG. Limiting the number of players who can play HG limits the number of people who can learn that they actually kinda like naval PvP and HG. Even if 90% of swabbies leave HG, that means 10% are still staying for the long haul, actually enjoying the game mode.

Extra supplies would be a good idea. Either a HG crate bought from the skelly or stranger once you vote for HG or a default reset each dive for a set of barrels on each ship.

There are several unused barrels on each ship, it would not be hard for rare to pick one or two on each ship to be an HG Barrel.

Sloop: First on right when you go down stairs
Brig:, barrel on top of wood barrel,
Galley: two barrels, on on either side of stairs mid deck.

These barrels reset each pvp dive with somthing like 150 cannon, 10 chain, 5 of each throwable & scatter, 50 wood, and 1 pinapple, two cooked chicken, 3 mango.

It either of these would not upset the balance.