Sea if Thieves 2

  • I think it's time and I think it's an obvious thing at this point. They don't fix hourglass. They don't expand the map. The game just doesn't grow. It just adding new things on top of things that already exist. Reskinning if you will. Just like the cosmetics. The way the game is right now it just can't grow anymore. To many restraints and restrictions. They need to wrap this game up and start working on a new version that is more up to date not only graphic wise but performance wise. After all this is an Xbox One game that came out 7 years ago. It's out of date and you can tell the developers but all have given up because the facts are there just isn't anything they can within the constraints that they have. I really do hope they start developing a new version of the game and stop developing on the current. Every update just hurts the game more and more. Unless they start expanding the map and start giving us actual new things the game just repeats the same cycle over and over. These are my thoughts on what they should do:

    1. Improve combat. If you notice when you are in combat what happens? It just becomes a jump fest. It's the dumbest thing I have ever seen. In all honesty reducing or removing jumping would be great because combat really isn't combat its jumping around trying to get away from the person so you can try and sneak and shot it. Just dumb, not fun and not enjoyable

    2. Fix hourglass. Make it just a ship combat thing. Remove boarding. Make it fun! Make it worthwhile for anybody playing the mode. Add a timer or shrinking circle to enforce interaction. It's in opt in battle mode that lots of people just spend running away. Fix it. That was the huge miss with hourglass since the beginning. It only incentivised and was fun the for pvp people. There was nothing worth while for the non pvpers. It took to long to gain a level especially if you were losing. Yes I have both curses so I am talking from experience. Calculations need to be done based on the performance of the match and not just who sunk and who didn't. You should get credit for anything you are able to do so your level increases become easier because you are getting way more rep. The tiny barely there rep you get for losing is pathetic. You tried to win, you tried to sink the other sheet for your effort you barely get anything. Make it make sense. Also need to remove 3rd parties. I am sorry that was no most ridiculous thing Rare could have said when they said thats what they wanted. They wanted interference to make things harder for people already having a hard time just to level up. How does that make any sense? People actually exploited the 3rd party thing in beginning where you would load into a match and be surround by 5 ships...but yes Rare said they wanted that. They totally missed the part about having fun. Hourglass was a never a fun thing to do. Just a horrible grind. Again make it fun.

    3. Stop the horrible grind for commendations. Nothing wrong with commendations just stop making them ridiculous! Not everything in a game should be a horrible grind especially for a commendation that doesn't award any cosmetics. Again make the commendations fun and rewarding. Not a terrible grind that you just want to get done and not enjoy.

    4. Shrouded Ghost. Just end it already. Enough people have been screwed over in this game because it's the last commendation they need and never get it because of dumb programming choices. If you have a commendation in the game make it obtainable! This commendation especially the 5 time one is impossible. Again it goes back making commendations fun. It's not fun just sailing around and hoping you spot it. It's so rare that people who have played since the beginning have never seen it! Makes no sense to put a commendation in a game, then add a cosmetic unlock for it when the player is not in control of obtaining said commendation. It's all on bs RNG.

    5, Just make the game fun and enjoyable. The issue I have seen since season 2 when I started was the developers had a vision for the game that they never wanted to let go. The people who actually played the game has made rare make some changes that needed to be done but for the most part because RARE has been so stubborn the game is what it is today. They are trying to make changes and thats a good thing. They are trying. I hope they start listening to people for once this time. I get they had a vision but the vision did not and still doesn't match the player base who actually plays the game.

    1. Single player/private server. Let's face it. At this point it literally makes no different if people can just play on a private server an earn/get whatever they want. Just think about it. Most of us have everything we want already. Getting gold is absolutely pointless because they never add anything worthwhile in the stores in anymore only in the emporium. Let people play how they want. Stop the restrictions and just let people play how they want...private or public servers. Incentivize for playing public servers of course. Make things you only get in public servers like certain cosmetic for playing public events etc. Outside of that let people play and earn everything else. It is literally pointless to restrict anything in a private server, safer seas, whatever . People have been calling for this for years. Are you actually going to show you are listening to your player base this time? Let me make it clear, I only play Public so its not even for me, its for others who want it.

    2. Listen to your player base. That is the biggest issue. They are constantly listening to the minority and not listening to the majority. You need to listen to who actually playing your game. We get you had a vision but that had to change with times because of your player base. You can't keep hiding behind your vision anymore. You have to adapt and make changes. Do things that make you uncomfortable for the better of the game. However, if I remember correctly they only had a 10 year plan so they can get by with what they are doing for the next 2 and 1/2 years I suppose but the player base will never grow.

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  • A better title for this post would have been: " My big list of grievances or how the devs should listen to me, "the player base", and abandon their vision for SOT"

    Down-vote!

  • @madfrito99 Is this ragebait?? Remove Jumping? Remove Boarding? Shrinking Circle?

  • @madfrito99

    They are constantly listening to the minority and not listening to the majority

    I'm sure that's why the game is still alive after 7+y, right... 😂

    Do things that make you uncomfortable for the better of the game

    Well, you can also play portion of the game that makes you feel uncomfortable. Or not - just play another game.

    If I remember correctly they only had a 10 year plan so they can get by with what they are doing for the next 2 and 1/2 years I suppose but the player base will never grow.

    Aaaand there you have it! See ya in 2,5 years 😅

  • Didn’t someone already “confirm” it’s not the Xbox at fault? It more Microsoft and maybe the engine they chosen.

  • @burnbacon

    A lot of people say this, but at some point you have to acknowledge that there are drawbacks/limitations that come with supporting a 12 year old console.

  • @worst-tdmer Servers do not care if you are on an Xbox One, £20k 'beast' PC or a smart fridge. It is just a device.

  • @kianonboard Actually no lol I am just stating facts that combat is simply people jumping around. Am I lieing? The other stuff are ideas that could change thing for the better. Thats all. Obviously Hourglass is not working, people don't play it. It was exploited to no end to the point they changed matchmaking as a whole and because so few play it certain commendations are not obtainable. Again just stating facts and giving ideas.

  • @r3vanns said in Sea if Thieves 2:

    @madfrito99

    They are constantly listening to the minority and not listening to the majority

    I'm sure that's why the game is still alive after 7+y, right... 😂
    It's alive doesn't mean it's thriving. Big difference. Is it really go ok to just survive?

    Do things that make you uncomfortable for the better of the game

    Well, you can also play portion of the game that makes you feel uncomfortable. Or not - just play another game.
    I play in higher seas...I play the uncomfortable lol I have since Season 2. Just giving ideas to make things better.

    If I remember correctly they only had a 10 year plan so they can get by with what they are doing for the next 2 and 1/2 years I suppose but the player base will never grow.

    Aaaand there you have it! See ya in 2,5 years 😅
    and and 2.5 years nothing will change...so yea

  • @look-behind-you

    Are you trying to say that Rare doesn't factor in the Xbox One at all when planning content?

    No matter how you spin it, there are negatives to supporting a 12 year old console.

  • @worst-tdmer I said " Servers do not care if you are on an Xbox One, £20k 'beast' PC or a smart fridge. It is just a device."

    It is literally just a few posts above.

    EDIT: if you want to argue, there are also negatives to supporting PC/Steam as well as other platforms.

  • @look-behind-you

    And I'll ask clearly this time without requiring you to contextualize:

    Do you think Xbox One support isn't a factor for Rare when planning content?

    There are clear minimum requirements listed for PC's, that could be updated at any time, and PC's are able to be upgraded. Nowhere near the same as a console made in 2013.

  • @worst-tdmer And I will reply again, "Servers do not care if you are on an Xbox One, £20k 'beast' PC or a smart fridge. It is just a device."

  • @look-behind-you

    This does nothing to answer my question, so I'll assume you just want to avoid it.

  • @worst-tdmer As I am not a game developer nor a Rare Employee, I can not speak for anything game-related, even if you would like me to..

    All I know is what I have been told as to the 'limitations'.

    Yes, PC's can be updated, but the game has been made to run on an Xbox One since it's inception (before PC version existed).

    And again Servers do not care if you are on an Xbox One, £20k 'beast' PC or a smart fridge. It is just a device.

  • @worst-tdmer said in Sea if Thieves 2:

    @look-behind-you

    And I'll ask clearly this time without requiring you to contextualize:

    Do you think Xbox One support isn't a factor for Rare when planning content?

    There are clear minimum requirements listed for PC's, that could be updated at any time, and PC's are able to be upgraded. Nowhere near the same as a console made in 2013.

    Why should it be? The only actual factor might be storage space on XboxOne. The game itself didn't have any visual upgrades, so requirements are basically the same. Only storage space req grew larger, and that's pretty much about it.

    What LBY is trying to say is that all the issues with performance people are experiencing have nothing to do with platforms, but servers. Which is a fact, no matter how buffed PC you have, you're still experiencing absolutely the same issues as people on XboxOne.

  • @r3vanns

    Some quotes from the original post:

    It's out of date and you can tell the developers but all have given up because the facts are there just isn't anything they can within the constraints that they have.

    Every update just hurts the game more and more. Unless they start expanding the map and start giving us actual new things the game just repeats the same cycle over and over.

    The game just doesn't grow. It just adding new things on top of things that already exist. Reskinning if you will. Just like the cosmetics. The way the game is right now it just can't grow anymore. To many restraints and restrictions.

    None of this has anything to do with performance, but content. Support for Xbox One 100% without a doubt influences the type of content Rare can add to SoT. The ceiling is much lower than it would be if they didn't have to account for the limitations of a 12 year old console.

  • @worst-tdmer said in Sea if Thieves 2:

    @r3vanns

    Some quotes from the original post:

    It's out of date and you can tell the developers but all have given up because the facts are there just isn't anything they can within the constraints that they have.

    Every update just hurts the game more and more. Unless they start expanding the map and start giving us actual new things the game just repeats the same cycle over and over.

    The game just doesn't grow. It just adding new things on top of things that already exist. Reskinning if you will. Just like the cosmetics. The way the game is right now it just can't grow anymore. To many restraints and restrictions.

    None of this has anything to do with performance, but content. Support for Xbox One 100% without a doubt influences the type of content Rare can add to SoT. The ceiling is much lower than it would be if they didn't have to account for the limitations of a 12 year old console.

    And content is stored where? On your storage.

    And content is controlled by? Servers.

    There is absolutely no proof that the content performance is limited by platforms. Again, you're having the same performance issues as people on Xbox1. Which is more likely due to server performance than local (platform) performance.

    Even if you said engine itself, I'd be more willing to agree.

  • @r3vanns

    ... Is this real life right now?

    And content is stored where? On your storage.

    And content is controlled by? Servers.

    There is absolutely no proof that the content performance is limited by platforms.

    Can an N64 run Cyberpunk if it had enough storage?

  • @worst-tdmer said in Sea if Thieves 2:

    @r3vanns

    ... Is this real life right now?

    And content is stored where? On your storage.

    And content is controlled by? Servers.

    There is absolutely no proof that the content performance is limited by platforms.

    Can an N64 run Cyberpunk if it had enough storage?

    Cyberpunk wasn't designed for N64.

    But SoT was designed for Xbox1. And remained so.

    I still think majority of SoT problems are due to server (or engine) limitations, rather than requirements, simply because requirements never changed.

    If Rare added RT, Lumen, Nanite, etc, then yea, I guess XboxOne would be super outdated and probably couldn't be optimized even for bare min FPS. But that's not the case here.

  • @r3vanns

    Now we're getting somewhere.

    SoT is a live service game, and is constantly adding new content.

    The depth and complexity of new content is limited by support for the Xbox One.

    In the same way that an N64 cannot run Cyberpunk, an Xbox One would not be able to run much more complex/taxing content that could be added to Sea of Thieves. The content we do get has to be able to run on an Xbox One, which means the potential for cool content is drastically lower.

  • @worst-tdmer said in Sea if Thieves 2:

    @r3vanns

    Now we're getting somewhere.

    SoT is a live service game, and is constantly adding new content.

    The depth and complexity of new content is limited by support for the Xbox One.

    In the same way that an N64 cannot run Cyberpunk, an Xbox One would not be able to run much more complex/taxing content that could be added to Sea of Thieves. The content we do get has to be able to run on an Xbox One, which means the potential for cool content is drastically lower.

    If you were running servers on your own machine, then yes. But you're not.

    Have you ever hosted a dedicated server for any game? That's right, it's eating up CPU and RAM resources.

    Except, you're not running SoT servers. Rare (well, MS Azure) is, along with handling all the connections, with their specific set of resource troubles.

    TL:DR - everything that is going on in the background, all the processing, is not done locally (on your client), but on the server.

    Yes, you still need CPU, GPU, RAM power to actually put out those frames for running the game, but those requirements didn't grow. The only thing that actually grew, is tax on Rare's servers, with stuff they have to process in the background with each new addition.

  • @worst-tdmer

    The limitation is the engine, UE4, not Xbox One. That is where the memory constraints currently are, and that's what limits the amount of content that Rare can add. Getting rid of Xbox One support won't change that. Upgrading to UE5 is not so straightforward though, as Sea of Thieves uses a custom version of UE4.

    The game may run with worse framerates and have a lower resolution on Xbox One, but that's not affecting anyone else but those playing there, as servers are agnostic to which device you play on.

  • @realstyli

    I don't buy that there aren't compromises being made with the current engine to maintain playability for the Xbox One.

    Even if they updated the engine, they would still have to end support for Xbox One.

    The alternative is just releasing updates/content that make the game unplayable for Xbox One without any sort of official statement.

  • @worst-tdmer said in Sea if Thieves 2:

    @realstyli
    I don't buy that there aren't compromises being made with the current engine to maintain playability for the Xbox One.

    Rare have already shot down this argument many times. There's no big conspiracy happening. The sky is not falling. Like I said, the bottleneck is UE4 not Xbox One, currently.

    Even if they updated the engine, they would still have to end support for Xbox One.

    If they updated the engine, they would also have to end support for lower end PCs as well.

    The alternative is just releasing updates/content that make the game unplayable for Xbox One without any sort of official statement.

    I'm fairly sure they will make a big announcement well in advance, if that ever arises.

    Scalability is important, and that's why I am happy for them to continue to support Xbox One. When studios are required to make their games run on lower spec machines it actually helps keep their games optimised better for the top end as well.

  • 1.) Play against what your opponent is doing. If they jump a lot, use the sword or blunderbuss to hit wider areas. If they are sword lording, practice blocking and tracking them as you block.

    2.) Remove boarding? Boarding is an essential part of even naval only hourglass play, you get someone on the ropes and then you board them to make sure they can't rep and bucket. This is standard even at the highest level of play. I agree that runners are annoying, 100%, but it's on demand PvP and unfortunately some people aren't very good at PvP. I think it would be a good system to add to give players bonus xp based on the actions they took during an hourglass match, since losing feels like such a slog currently and the system encourages loss farming. 3rd partying is such a minimal issue that I don't know how it's affecting you so much. I have had more rounds of hourglass interrupted by skeleton fleets, ancient megs, and krakens than I have been 3rd partied (ally 320, both curses).

    3.) This game has so many commendations because it has so much content. Some commendations definitely do need to be adjusted, and I can't stress how badly balanced so many of them are, but overall they're one of the parts of the game that has kept me coming back for more. If a commendation unlocks something cool, I'm gonna do it, and I enjoy this game a lot, so I feel like the comms are all relatively simple for me. I have Pirates of mischief, Rowboat revelry, siren song, Sea forts, Legends of the Sea, Cursed Sails, Festival of the damned, and Gunpowder skeletons completed, and more than 50% completion in many more.

    4.) Shrouded Ghost isn't real and anyone who has the title is paid by Rare.

    5.) Rare wanted to make the game they wanted to make and you (and some supposedly existent players) don't like that so they should make the game they don't wanna make? What? Who are these people? People who still play don't like the games vision?

    6.) And there it is. You want SoT to be single player. Admit it. The reason why the game will never allow players to play in fully offline or fully segregated seas is because they know that a huge portion of the playerbase will leave high seas. I see enough people complaining about it here, and I know that if it comes down to it, you will leave high seas and make the servers feel even more dead than people say they feel after diving was introduced. High seas exclusive cosmetics already exist, and people like you complain about how hard it is to get them. A lot of people will say "This will kill SoT" to many things, but having full access to the game for any player in single player with 100% payouts and no restrictions to events will genuinely kill the game. SS fleets will not, and custom seas will not, though both of those will have notable effects on high seas playercounts, for sure.

    7.) How do you dictate that? You somehow know who the majority is? The majority of players of this game don't care about most of it and just play. The loudest players and the loudest opinions are the ones you know and hear, but not the majority opinions. Why do you get to dictate what opinions are the majority and how are you determining it? Why do those opinions matter more than the opinions of the devs who make the game and why is it a bad thing for them to make the game according to their vision? You can't please everyone, but if you do your best on what you love, more people will be happy about it. The is game is better now than it has ever been. There is more cool tools, more events, more ways to play, more everything for any type of playstyle. Sorry you can't see that.

  • @madfrito99 Don't you think that removing jumping sounds a bit ridiculous, same with remove boarding? I mean, how will you board your own ship? They'd have to rework the whole map if they were to remove jumping...

  • @r3vanns tdmer is not talking about server performance, they are talking about game performance

    It is true that the game needs to be smaller in scope (or optimized better) to make sure it has good performance on lower end devices, I remember the devs saying that whenever they add a new world event, they have to find ways to optimize or cut other things to get more memory, though tbf I don’t remember if that was about server memory or client memory

  • @r3vanns said in Sea if Thieves 2:

    If I remember correctly they only had a 10 year plan so they can get by with what they are doing for the next 2 and 1/2 years I suppose but the player base will never grow.

    Aaaand there you have it! See ya in 2,5 years 😅

    They said recently though that they have plans for another 5 years, so they'll have to wait twice as long 😎

  • @captain-knyt said in Sea if Thieves 2:

    @r3vanns tdmer is not talking about server performance, they are talking about game performance

    It is true that the game needs to be smaller in scope (or optimized better) to make sure it has good performance on lower end devices, I remember the devs saying that whenever they add a new world event, they have to find ways to optimize or cut other things to get more memory, though tbf I don’t remember if that was about server memory or client memory

    I know TDMer ain't talking about it.

    The entire discussion with LBY and myself vs TDMer takes is around him claiming Xbox1 is holding the game back due to technical (hardware) limitation, while LBY and myself blame server netcode/optimization or the engine itself (or engine limits affecting the game itself and/or servers).

  • @lem0n-curry said in Sea if Thieves 2:

    @r3vanns said in Sea if Thieves 2:

    If I remember correctly they only had a 10 year plan so they can get by with what they are doing for the next 2 and 1/2 years I suppose but the player base will never grow.

    Aaaand there you have it! See ya in 2,5 years 😅

    They said recently though that they have plans for another 5 years, so they'll have to wait twice as long 😎

    Oh no! Oh well.

    I guess it's time for OP to switch to Ubislop's Spam & Trash. This might take a while 😂

  • @potatosord ok so no I don't need the single player lol Again I have been playing since season 2 and I have unlocked most stuff. However, if Rare wants Sea of Thieves to grow that have to entice people to play and what better way is to have the single player version. Most players solo sloop anyway thats a fact and obviously in Higher Seas solo slopping is considered hard mode and everything is pretty much catered towards the bigger ships. Hence why at this point it makes perfect sense to just make the private server/single player version and be done. Yes some players will leave the higher seas but that is why they can come up with new and exciting things that are public server only that will keep them to come back from time to time to get those. It't only for the better

  • @realstyli Whatever the put in the game has to work with Xbox One and Series X|S. That right there holds the game back. Stop supporting old consoles and upgrade the servers. Neither things they want to do. Either that don't have the funding or player base to justify doing that which comes back to player base. You want a larger player base, make the game fun period. Give people the things they want like the private server/single player whatever. Just listen to the player base.

  • @kianonboard Is it really ridiculous though? Think about it. You don't need to jump onto your boat, you have a ladder. Tell me if I am wrong but every single time when I am in hand to hand combat it is just a jump fest. How is that remotely fun at all? How is that defined as combat at all? If you just simple reduce the height you can jump, or have a stamina bar it would force people to actually have combat instead of a jumping fest which is a huge issue for combat which could in fact maybe perhaps possibly fix hit reg lol

  • @r3vanns You are both right. Servers need to be updated/expanded. However, whatever is put in the game has to work on both console. They can't make anything that only works on series X|S. That is the issue we are addressing. Because of the support of old consoles and lack of better servers the game is held back tremendously

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