Why Sea of Thieves is Dying:

@fysics3037 I can agree there, 100%. Hopefully the new direction yields great results.

@theblackbellamy said in Why Sea of Thieves is Dying::

@valor-omega said:

As for "Rare not wanting to reward the PvP community," and while I truly don't think it's a simple answer as that, I'll play devil's advocate; if I were a game developer, and had a subset of players who regularly pop off in toxic manners, foster a community around that toxicity, and who have historically and regularly thrown collective temper tantrums on socials, bashing devs regularly, and harassing people who disagree with them openly, I wouldn't want to reward that bunch, either.

Lol but not all dedicated PvPers, or HG mains, or people who consider themselves part of a larger PvP community "regularly" do any of that stuff.

I too wouldn't want to reward people who target and harass anyone, on socials, in private, where ever.

But if I knew a subset of my playerbase regularly played HG, and there seems to be some general agreement in the feedback spaces regarding improvements, it would behoove me as a business to retain their activity. Rather than make them feel unheard...

Demotivating them to play, to the point they just loom in the forums... Waiting for someone to say "Arena," so they can pop in and make the same comment they've made in the other nearly identical threads...

I miss Arena.

If that was the topic, this thread wouldn't evolve into this mess. But the feedback provided and requests made in OP were too broad, and were veeeeeeeery unpopular, and unwanted.

Why any of us, whether we do PvP or not, would have anything against improvements to HG, if Rare can come up with something? Nobody here objected that.

But what's supper funny, is that OP didn't even mention HG in the entire post. But mostly the other stuff which absolutely deserved the backflash from the vast majority of the forum.

@valor-omega said:

Taking breaks, and playing other games is really something I cannot understate.

💯

I'm a lord Black Widow and Invisible Woman, and I'm working on Groot and Strange next. I only peaked gold but once my friends get more comfortable with Rivals, I'm dragging them into ranked.

I basically show up here in the forums more than I play SoT nowadays lol. I'm waiting for Rare to follow through with a few promises before I go back the game. But I do want to go back. Otherwise I wouldn't be here.

I miss Arena.

Same mate, it was a good time.

🍻

@r3vanns said:

If that was the topic, this thread wouldn't evolve into this mess. But the feedback provided and requests made in OP were too broad were veeeeeeeery unpopular, and unwanted.

Oh yeah, OP is wildin.

I just responded to Wolf b/c Wolf always bring good convo; and I responded to Valor's as I saw the comment, but I guess out of context of the OP. Also I saw "devil's advocate" and I had to. Forum PvP community, I guess.

@theblackbellamy said in Why Sea of Thieves is Dying::

@valor-omega said:

Taking breaks, and playing other games is really something I cannot understate.

💯

I'm a lord Black Widow and Invisible Woman, and I'm working on Groot and Strange next. I only peaked gold but once my friends get more comfortable with Rivals, I'm dragging them into ranked.

I basically show up here in the forums more than I play SoT nowadays lol. I'm waiting for Rare to follow through with a few promises before I go back the game. But I do want to go back. Otherwise I wouldn't be here.

Word, dude! I've heard a lot of good thing about Rivals, and might jump in. But honestly, Monster Hunter Wilds has completely taken hold of my free time, haha. Such a fun game.

I wanna try and add an actually meaningful point of discussion in this post, rather than just more PvE vs PvP nonsense. While there have been many actions by the devs that have hurt the PvP community or caused some kind of unrest, what's done is done, and there's clearly no meaningful discussion around it here.

The biggest issue with SoT has always been the polish. There have been few points in the games existence where you could play for 3 hours and never encounter a major bug, or other area that just feels off. Recently with the new quality control team and real action being taken by Rare, we have seen many many improvements in this area. But there is definitely more to be done. I'll go over why and how these different areas should be addressed; PvP/HG, PvE, and bug fixes/weapon balancing. I'll be focusing on how these additions/changes cater to new, casual, and competitive players with a theme around quality and depth of experience.

Starting off I'll go into how PvP or HG should be addressed. First and foremost, PvP is an integral part of the SoT sandbox experience. All aspects of the game should tie in PvP and PvE in some form. While things like Safe Seas distract from that, I think there have been clear benefits to that separation, and I won't be complaining about that. I will however address how Hourglass is too separated from the casual experience. Hourglass progress, in the form of allegiance, is nearly only gained through diving and fighting over and over. This system, while fun and effective, has become stale for many players. There are a great deal of people that don't interact with Hourglass in the first place, not wanting to participate in non-stop PvP with no PvE and minimal progress being made in other areas of the game. This had already slashed the number of players willing to participate with the mode. And after roughly 2 years of the mode being out, people that did enjoy playing it have grown tired of the constant PvP nature. This all has led to the mode dying off considerably. Rather than trying to "rally" people back into the mode through mode additions or sweeping PvP updates, it's my belief that defending, the long forgotten second play style of hourglass, should become the new focus. Rather than having to constantly compete in dueling matches, players would be able to opt-in to being attacked roughly every 20 minutes. This gives them plenty of time to collect loot, complete a mission, or do whatever else while still making progress in hourglass. Players interested in risking it all could level up their factions stash, allowing them to get potentially equal rewards to just diving. A new emphasis on defending as a way of play for HG would allow players to participate in the mode without being restricted to the mode. This would also provide a more natural evolution for all PL players. And this system largely already exists in the game. The issue is the few quirks of defending. The main issue being that you will rarely ever see combat, except at the start of your session. It seems that if a server is full, you will never be invaded. Also it seems that if other ships are nearby it will prevent you from being invaded. This results in defending being effectively irrelevant as getting a match is usually a once a session thing. To fix these issues I think Rare should at minimum, dedicate the last server slot to invaders, ensuring that at all points, players are at risk of being attacked. I also think that Rare should encourage defending more, allowing the faction grade to act as a secondary form of emissary, making it so that it's basically a no brainer to defend. This lowers the barrier to entry to Hourglass, makes it feel like there is a real "war" on the seas, and incorporates hourglass into the larger PvPvE experience. The current system is just too separated and it feels like we're slowly setting up for another "2% of playtime..." announcement. Rare should feed into what players want, adventure, while keeping PvP progression the focus of the Hourglass Factions.

When it comes to PvE, the major issue is depth. For many players PvE has become boring and largely too simple. As the game goes on we're presented with more and more ways to experience the same skeleton slashing experience, and it isn't working. Something that Season 15 has done is break out of the basic enemy AI's that plague this game. The new megalodons provide interesting new problems for players to overcome. And the rest of the season seems to be expanding on that idea of a fresh new way to play. I think this is something the team has done a really good job with, but there's definitely more work to be done. In my opinion, SoT's PvE works best when it can be a stage for SoT's player to player interaction. When PvE feels like a part of the player to player narrative, it's honestly magical. The most famous clips revolve around people getting "Rare'd" or FotD/FoF/Skeleton Forts for a reason. And there have been some recent attempt to recapture that feeling, notably with the BB. While I think these attempts were effective for a time, there isn't a sustainable long term gameplay cycle that keeps players engaged. And that is where depth comes into play. Players should be drawn to interact with content, not for the reward, but for the experience. If modifiers were introduced to the World Events/quests it would make each experience feel different. Imagine if an Ashen Winds event had a modifier where you would have to fight against ships while the ashen lord shot at you, or the entire arena had the spurts from the Devils Roar, or it was cloaked in the fog permanently. Each of the four bosses could even have a different attack, such as one where you had to jump/crouch under waves of fire. I mean there's a lot of little things that could be added, reusing assets, to make each experience feel different. There has to be some form of randomness to these PvE things to encourage continued play. All these little modifiers and additions further encourage sustained interaction and ensure that no part of the game feels "stale". Making each thing interesting is going to draw players towards it and create epic moments again. The other big PvE issue is the diving mechanics. While I think diving has had a great impact on short sessions and really made that a unique part of the game, it's too convenient. Diving in PvE, just like diving in PvP, has taken away from the PvPvE sandbox feel. It's not uncommon to find players with only one voyage worth of loot or a WE with a raid loot pool. Making it so playing on one server is the clear choice would be a good addition. I think with the Hourglass changes, specifically the faction stash selling bonus, would already help to discourage diving among many players. But going further, such as making these "modified" or "special" World Event unraidable, would help further push players towards them. Seeing an Ashen Battalion (the Ashen Winds with a fleet around it) would bring players together. Not only because it has more interesting mechanics, but also because it could have a diverse and larger loot pool. And this already exists to a degree in the sandbox, the Ashen Skeleton Fort, though extremely rare, is always a magnet for activity on a server. Playing into that more would just help the game feel more diverse and less "same same". To be clear, I think quest/boss modifiers should be raidable (like different bosses having different attacks or different quests having different enemies) but large imposing modifiers that make the experience harder should be somewhat rare (like 20% chance) unraidable experiences. This all helps to make the game feel more varied, provide extra incentives for interaction, and doesn't take away from the PvE's role as a "set piece" for player interaction.

The last point I want to cover is balancing/bug fixes. I think polish has been one of SoTs biggest issues. New players come to the game and are often met with a wall of bugs that diminish the experience. I've had many friends snub their nose at SoT due to that. And it also impacts experienced players. We are often fed up with bugs by hour 600 and it becomes difficult to continuously play the game when solutions are "implemented" but nothing really changes. I think Drew and the new quality assurance team has been doing a fantastic job and the game is in a much better state than it was, however there is definitely more to be done. There's not much to be discussed on the bug side of things, as we'll see how things play out. The second part is weapon balancing. Weapon balancing has been not great. I mean I respect the attempts but it's clear that there are "PvE" and "PvP" weapons. Some just don't work well in the PvP space and updating/improving them would be great, not only for high end players, but for everyone. When new weapons are added and are just pointless or unplayable in certain areas of the game it really sucks. And it sucks for new players to come in and fall in love with the DB, only to discover it's really clunky. I don't think this should be the main area of focus when it comes to polishing the game, but improving it at some point would be incredible. And this is really where stuff like the new QA team can give some meaningful feedback. When good players are given the chance, we'll gladly help you improve the weapon quality across the board. Greater variety and practicality in the combat system would really help improve the game on all levels of play.

@look-behind-you I'll just remove that part, clearly going to be an issue for people to talk about.

@fysics3037 said in Why Sea of Thieves is Dying::

@look-behind-you I'll just remove that part, clearly going to be an issue for people to talk about.

Clearly, indeed.

Because through the entire thread same people keep dancing around playing semantics, trying to pitch in the return of removed exploits, this way or another.

No matter how many times it was explained why it won't and shouldn't happen. So... good choice, for a change.

@look-behind-you

I just want them to bring back the giant flowers.

@fellowsot said in Why Sea of Thieves is Dying::

@dlchief58 high seas are almost more dead than hourglass atleast that’s how i feel

You realize how this kind of proves the point that pvp is not the single most popular aspect of the game yes? If people are playing in a way that is more passive and likely parked somewhere and not hunting down their next fight, it makes them harder to notice. Its hard to recall the last time you didnt see some one when their ship is parked out of view. And typically when people are doing a voyage, thats what they do, they try to park where they expect less people will spot their ship in passing.

The only times i recall seeing people parked at an island was when i chose to attack them. Otherwise if im doing my own thing and seen some one parked somewhere, i dont remember them because theres nothing special about it to remember.

The servers are never empty, they automatically fill with people until full before creating another for other people in your region. So if the servers seem dead or empty, thats because they are either hiding their ships well, or are anywhere except where you are currently by chance, or both. Cant remember a person who IS there if you never saw them. But not having seen them does not make them any less there.

@goldsmen PvP is popular but obviously the minority since no swabbies do it

@fellowsot said in Why Sea of Thieves is Dying::

@goldsmen PvP is popular but obviously the minority since no swabbies do it

Bad generalization. Swabbies can and have come in trying to fight, whether they win or lose is entirely random and depends on the fight they get into.

Some new players signed up to this game expecting a chill game to play with friends ala Deep Rock Galactic, some come into this game liking the pirate theming, some came to this game because of the massive Disney crossover that definitely didn't cause overwhelming ramifications to the future of the game.

Just cause you're finding sailor outfits analog turning and parlaying, or emporium shipsets making elongated getaways does not mean swabbies don't want to do PvP.

while I agree with most of the post, I highly disagree with quick swapping. us console players could barely do it and that gave PC a huge advantage over console. even though console only is an option sometimes they slip in our servers on rare occasions and their enough of a hassle. quick swapping was an exploit that was frustrating to deal with.

@veronik5682 Wholeheartedly agree - I was more using my argument as a point towards a previous comment from OP, calling me casual lol.

@fellowsot said in Why Sea of Thieves is Dying::

@goldsmen PvP is popular but obviously the minority since no swabbies do it

Your logic continues to confuse me, swabbies are in no measure the majority of the playerbase. I fail to follow any of your reasoning.

@belphegor1384 said:

... us console players could barely do it and that gave PC a huge advantage over console.

Eh, while I agree with the general consensus in this thread on leaving quick-swapping out, I will push back against this.

I was on Xbox before I got a PC specifically to play SoT, and remained a controller player all these years. I did all my Arena grinds on all my accounts with a controller.

Quick-swapping was not a difficult tech/exploit to master. You essentially sprint after you swap weapons and aim. That's it lol. It's so easy that it's possible players accidentally quick-swapped and didn't even know it.

Double-gunning in general has a higher skill ceiling, as it requires not just aim, but also timing and game sense (knowing when to lead shots, how much, etc). And KBM players, having better mechanical control, did tend to double-gun better than controller or console players.

But quick-swapping (swap, sprint, aim) by itself, was something both controller and KBM players were able to do consistently after a little bit of practice.

My biggest gripe with its removal was Rare's stubbornness in leaving the mechanics to feel "clunky" after. Quick-swapping (and animation cancels in general) added a sense of fluidity to combat (or digging chests lol). And instead of hard-coding that sort of fluidity into the game, for all players to appreciate, Rare made combat feel stiff, and made the act of digging just as boring as it sounds.

@capt-shiesty821 said in Why Sea of Thieves is Dying::

@musicmee been hearing that this game is “dying” for the past 4 years yet here we are.

almost 7 for me. I still play multiple times a week. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

@dekudal it's on sale now in the xbox store for $14. You'll get your money's worth.

1. Hourglass. You have described Hourglass. HG curses as a reward for engaging in on demand PvP. Servers are already PvE with optional PvP. Rare will never turn off PvP, they will never enable PvPless servers. Just admit you want SoT to be single player.

2. Ac bad, use new Ac less bad. What are you even saying here? You are saying words but conveying no actual meaning other than your personal disdain for the anticheat.

3. What? Burning Blade, Ancient Megs, Reaper Voyages, OoBaB skeletons, Cannons of Rage, disguises, crouching... That's just the last 4 seasons.

4. Complaining about season pass rewards locked behind a paywall but they don't make the paywalled rewards good enough? Which is it? Do you want them or not?

5. Rare "removed mechanics"? No, Rare removed exploits. Just because "anyone can do them" doesn't mean they are actually fair. It's harder to do some of those on console, so console players would be at a disadvantage, and launches were framerate dependent, meaning that PC players and streamers with better PCs were disproportionately at an advantage with those launches. They would go further. Also 110 fov is coming to the game, GG on actually doing research.

This smells a lot like it was written by chatgpt as well. The listing format, as well as the bracketed abbreviations really give away that it's using a prompt. No human would put the abbreviation repeatedly in brackets for the same term within a single list.