Complaints about Safer Seas/Safer Seas Fleets...

  • @goldsmen rare has never said pve discord servers are against the rules. just like they never said macros are against the rules. they added macro detection to try and kick people trying to leech off active crewmates. more an issue in open crew as close crew in theory is a group of consenting friends to whatever playstyle they are doing.

    sea of thieves has always been tools not rules. using discord to coordinate pve fleets falls under this umbrella.. however most companies dont allow the community to charge people for these services. which the longer rare has taken to add proper pve servers at a fee the more money goes to discord groups and less to the company to further develop the game

    and macros are allowed because people have physical disabilities, these people would benefit highly from having a fully function safer seas because if you are missing fingers or have limited functionality in your hands its really hard to compete with a sweatlord. i will say out of all the games ive played sea of thieves has been the most accommodating in terms of accessibility features. but for the things they cant attribute for theres razer synapse macros so people can perform functions their hands might not be capable of for whatever reason.

    that being said they havent account for people on the spectrum, people who love this world they created but who have crippling social anxiety. people like myself who is still having nightmares about an encounter that happened over a year ago. it wasnt a toxic encounter but it was a number of misplays on my part combined with stress and physical limitations and it resulted in just a loss of a little bit of loot, a LOT of supplies from hours spent collecting. but whats the alternative? does the player base really think someone like me should just 100% quit the game? 1 less emporium shopper to buy cosmetics to fund the game? 1 less person who would be willing to pay for full access safer seas? wheres the logic there? why do people want this game to die for the sake of preserving the pvpve? me uninstall is no different than me playing pve and avoiding high seas. its very rare i play high seas now because i just cant get over my mistakes. my self esteem is low enough as it is without being destroyed by a galleon full of pvp sweatlords especially if they happen to be mouthy ones talking trash about you not being able to 1v4 them.

    the big issue as i said before is high seas needs more incentive to play over a full pve server. its simple. higher risk higher reward. the problem right now is comparing same level reward with different levels of risk. even world of warcraft has a 10-30% reward boost if you choose to opt into pvp the higher reward for playing on a faction that is outnumbered by the enemy.

  • @chenzo01 And stats say it has been dying for 6+ years:

    Here are the monthly averages for Steam player count, averaged out for each year:

    • 2025 - 7,109 (The average for 2024 by this time of year was 10,870)
      • 2024 - 9,152
      • 2023 - 10,489
      • 2022 - 12,229
      • 2021 - 14,694
      • 2020 - 14,787

    Here are the yearly peaks for Steam player count averaged out:

    • 2025 - 18,529 (The average for 2024 by this time of year was 27,861)
    • 2024 - 22,372
    • 2023 - 25,215
    • 2022 - 27,680
    • 2021 - 35,179
    • 2020 - 38,231

    Here are the yearly averages for twitch viewership:

    • 2025 - 3,825 (The average for 2024 by this time of year was 5,442)
    • 2024 - 4,483
    • 2023 - 5,359
    • 2022 - 6,695
    • 2021 - 7,785
    • 2020 - 7,366

    Very clear downward trend.

  • @archon2024 This game stops existing once it becomes a single player game. As soon as you give PVE servers or safer seas full progression, there is no longer a point to playing high seas. You will only face sweats. Yes alliance servers already exist, but that's not really that much at the end of the day and those "alliance servers" are still normal servers which can still be invaded if someone drops out, and as soon as that happens, it's no longer an alliance server, it's PvEvP again. Alliance servers are also such a small number of players that it doesn't matter against the whole of it. As soon as there is a way to do it without having to know something special or join a group to ask how to do it then join another group etc etc, as soon as they have a way to do it in the game with a single button press there will be a flood of players doing it. Now that 110FOV is being added to the game, more players will use it than the number of players who used it with modded pack files. It's just part of how it works. Even a single barrier to entry is enough to stop the vast majority of people from trying.

  • @capt-greldik If you never spent that first three months running and scared, you would never have wanted to change it and become a better player. If we make it so players can just play the game effectively single player, then any time they decide to try high seas, they'll just be wiped and will never want to try it again. They might never even LEARN about hourglass curses. If not playing high seas is an option, there will be people who don't even know hourglass exists. There are already people who don't know what it is and it's never locked.

  • @look-behind-you One of my favourite things about this game is meeting players who don't want to fight. Made some amazing friends that way and have gotten a lot of good progress that way, they are always willing to help with comms. If players are able to play the game alone without any progression stoppage, what stops them from doing it? Most of the players I have met like what I described have been the kind of player who would play on a single player server given the option. They were not likely to commit to PvP, or lose most of the time when they do. More often than not they're happy I don't shoot. As someone who is both a PvP sweat (both HG curses) and a PvE lover (Done every tall tale, working on distinctions in every faction), I would personally not want to keep playing if more often than not my encounters were with players who didn't want to talk and wanted to just fight.

  • @worst-tdmer

    What the stats for Xbox? Everyone always looks at one side never both.

  • @burnbacon Xbox doesn't release stats, but they would likely reflect the same downward trend as the other two platforms. The only way it wouldn't is if there were factors that made it immune to the trend, i.e. exclusive content/other incentives, or hype like you might see on Playstation/Blizzard since it's still a "new release" for them.

    At the end of the day it's the same game on all platforms, Xbox numbers might be higher in general, but would probably still follow the downward trend. The twitch numbers alone show that in general, interest for the game is at an all time low.

  • @worst-tdmer

    Ah so, in the end. Stats don't matter since we can't get the full picture from all platforms and it just all guessing because one platforms numbers drop.

  • @burnbacon Do you know how trends work? When the only two sources of solid data we have access to, from two different platforms, show the exact same trend, what makes you think Xbox will be any different?

    Do you think Rare suddenly going back on hard stances they've refused to budge on since the game's creation (FoV, custom servers, ban enforcement) and changing their approach to development (Update quality assurance, weapon balance, respecting player time with commendations) is a coincidence and has nothing to do with a drop in numbers/money?

    Regardless, what fuller picture can be painted than the overall interest that's shown in Twitch numbers? People have clearly been losing interest in the game consistently for the last 5 years.

  • I swear I have this same conversation every year. And we're off topic.

    @worst-tdmer - I can pull stats too - https://www.exitlag.com/blog/sea-of-thieves-player-count/

    Estimated Daily Players in 2025 - Total across all platforms: 300,000 to 500,000 daily active users

  • Part of the drops in Steam players can be explained by people getting the Battle-net or PS5 version as well and prefer to play on those.

  • @chenzo01 said in Complaints about Safer Seas/Safer Seas Fleets...:

    I swear I have this same conversation every year. And we're off topic.

    @worst-tdmer - I can pull stats too - https://www.exitlag.com/blog/sea-of-thieves-player-count/

    Estimated Daily Players in 2025 - Total across all platforms: 300,000 to 500,000 daily active users
    That's AD sir, they posted that for SEO purposes, there is no public information about xbox players counts and I won't believe Microsoft shared subs metrics with third party company

  • @archon2024 said in Complaints about Safer Seas/Safer Seas Fleets...:

    @goldsmen rare has never said pve discord servers are against the rules. just like they never said macros are against the rules. they added macro detection to try and kick people trying to leech off active crewmates. more an issue in open crew as close crew in theory is a group of consenting friends to whatever playstyle they are doing.

    sea of thieves has always been tools not rules. using discord to coordinate pve fleets falls under this umbrella.. however most companies dont allow the community to charge people for these services. which the longer rare has taken to add proper pve servers at a fee the more money goes to discord groups and less to the company to further develop the game

    and macros are allowed because people have physical disabilities, these people would benefit highly from having a fully function safer seas because if you are missing fingers or have limited functionality in your hands its really hard to compete with a sweatlord. i will say out of all the games ive played sea of thieves has been the most accommodating in terms of accessibility features. but for the things they cant attribute for theres razer synapse macros so people can perform functions their hands might not be capable of for whatever reason.

    that being said they havent account for people on the spectrum, people who love this world they created but who have crippling social anxiety. people like myself who is still having nightmares about an encounter that happened over a year ago. it wasnt a toxic encounter but it was a number of misplays on my part combined with stress and physical limitations and it resulted in just a loss of a little bit of loot, a LOT of supplies from hours spent collecting. but whats the alternative? does the player base really think someone like me should just 100% quit the game? 1 less emporium shopper to buy cosmetics to fund the game? 1 less person who would be willing to pay for full access safer seas? wheres the logic there? why do people want this game to die for the sake of preserving the pvpve? me uninstall is no different than me playing pve and avoiding high seas. its very rare i play high seas now because i just cant get over my mistakes. my self esteem is low enough as it is without being destroyed by a galleon full of pvp sweatlords especially if they happen to be mouthy ones talking trash about you not being able to 1v4 them.

    the big issue as i said before is high seas needs more incentive to play over a full pve server. its simple. higher risk higher reward. the problem right now is comparing same level reward with different levels of risk. even world of warcraft has a 10-30% reward boost if you choose to opt into pvp the higher reward for playing on a faction that is outnumbered by the enemy.

    I never said that pve discord servers nor macros were against the rules in this thread that I recall or am seeing. In fact i know very well that they are within a grey area of the rules, but when those groups act out in game, all involved are at risk of the yellow or even red beard. Never have i said they arnt allowed.

    That said, I have social anxiety and autism both, I dont expect everything that I personally dont like in a game or something to change just to fit me. I understand that there are always areas where people may want one thing in specific, but that doesnt warent a different thing change in every case if it goes against the designed experience. I have gotten plenty of games that rub me the wrong way, and i accept that they arnt for me.

    While i understand everyones experience is different, you cant expect to change everyone elses experience just because of it, any game that does well is always a tailored experience. Thats just a matter of fact, i cant think of any game that has tried to please everyone and been successful.

  • @lem0n-curry I've been playing since 2020 and I have only ever played on the microsoft store. I bought the game before it existed on steam. The first 3 years of the game IT WAS NOT ON STEAM

  • @chenzo01

    They couldn't even get the Steam stats correct, and those are publicly available. I doubt they know anything about Microsoft/Xbox/Playstation numbers.

    And again, Rare would not be changing long held stances they've refused to budge on for 7 years, if they thought the numbers were good. Microsoft wouldn't have let one of it's flagships start releasing on every other platform if the Xbox numbers were encouraging.

    Honestly don't understand why so many of you are so emotionally invested in pretending this pirate game is doing amazingly. It's not dead, it isn't a failure, but it is dying. Rare has/is acknowledging a lot of the problems that are contributing to the decline, and seems to be heading in a good direction for the game. It's okay to admit there have been several missteps in the last 5 years.

  • @worst-tdmer

    I don't knw why you're so hellbent on claiming that the sky is falling? I am merely pointing out that from my perspective, after 7ish years of playing, the servers seem as full as they've always been. There's always something new for us to do - albeit with some dry seasons sprinkled in there. I enjoy the game as much as I have from when I first started sailing.

  • @chenzo01 Never claimed "the sky is falling", I said word for word "it's not dead, it isn't a failure".

    The only confirmed stats we have show that the game has been declining consistently for the past 5 years.

    SoT is one of my favorite games of all time, which is why I think it's better to acknowledge its shortcomings so it can grow past them, instead of just blindly saying it's in a great spot.

  • @archon2024
    "i am a PvE player. i play to make progress", "i WANT to give rare money.... IF they let me play how i want, when i want". Those 2 sentences are where you lost me and unfortunately the only logical response is PVPVE pirate game that is called Sea of THIEVES!

  • My friends and I liked playing on Safer Seas, but we don't anymore because not selling to the sovereigns is the biggest pain point for us. We wouldn't mind gold reduction - the gold number going up is enough of a reward, and even though the experiences of sinking a skelly fleet or doing a fort is enjoyable, straight up abandoning the loot is not.

    We played for a couple years on High Seas, and while we had fun, it was outweighed by the annoyance of PvP, which is content we had to endure rather than enjoy. I looked into alliance servers and participated a couple times, but it's a lot of effort to set up just to enjoy the game how we'd like to play it, so I haven't pitched that to them.

    I know it's been said many times on many threads "then just play another game," and that's exactly what we've been doing, but I keep tabs on SoT because cutting down on the time spent selling loot would bring us back in.

  • @psiovertake8915 said in Complaints about Safer Seas/Safer Seas Fleets...:

    My friends and I liked playing on Safer Seas, but we don't anymore because not selling to the sovereigns is the biggest pain point for us. We wouldn't mind gold reduction - the gold number going up is enough of a reward, and even though the experiences of sinking a skelly fleet or doing a fort is enjoyable, straight up abandoning the loot is not.

    We played for a couple years on High Seas, and while we had fun, it was outweighed by the annoyance of PvP, which is content we had to endure rather than enjoy. I looked into alliance servers and participated a couple times, but it's a lot of effort to set up just to enjoy the game how we'd like to play it, so I haven't pitched that to them.

    I know it's been said many times on many threads "then just play another game," and that's exactly what we've been doing, but I keep tabs on SoT because cutting down on the time spent selling loot would bring us back in.

    Jeez. I remember a time when sovereign didn't exist, and we had to carry loot in by hand individually. I never once thought about quitting because selling and making gold was such a pain. I also learned quite quickly which outposts were the best to sell at to make it easier. Hint: avoid Daggartooth. We used to have everything organized on the bow, in some cases a million gold-piece haul. Also, the treasure now, is a lot more valuable than back then. We had to dump everything on the pier and get the ship out quickly, since it was vulnerable to attack.

    PvP was something I had to get used to, and at first it was also an annoyance, however the more I played, the more experience I acquired, made me a better player. It gave me an adrenaline rush that I still love to this day, especially now that I can sink galleons from a sloop. Best. Feeling. Ever.

    The reason they're not going to have captained ships in Safer Seas is because of the milestones, and having to get your ship to legendary status. It's meaningless if you can literally afk in safer seas and earn everything.

  • The game is fine and will survive. The only thing dying is the morale for everyone who loves to punch down. It was funny the first few years but now it's old. You're just mad you won't get any more dopamine from sinking mostly adolescents.

    "Oh no, now I'll have to fight other players that actually want to participate." The same people that say "It's not about the gold, but the glory," then turn around and whine about people making gold in a private server.

    Pipe down and get to seeking your glory, Mr. PvP Chad. Too bad that will now include a multitude of failures.. God forbid you have to learn from your mistakes and get better. Nah, sinking new players is much better for the psyche. Go ahead and give yourself a big pat on the back for all your hard work.

    Most "thieves" in this game are people that want an easy ego boost from sinking kids after consistently getting dog walked in any other game they try to play.

  • @cs-burchie said in Complaints about Safer Seas/Safer Seas Fleets...:

    The game is fine and will survive. The only thing dying is the morale for everyone who loves to punch down. It was funny the first few years but now it's old. You're just mad you won't get any more dopamine from sinking mostly adolescents.

    "Oh no, now I'll have to fight other players that actually want to participate." The same people that say "It's not about the gold, but the glory," then turn around and whine about people making gold in a private server.

    Pipe down and get to seeking your glory, Mr. PvP Chad. Too bad that will now include a multitude of failures.. God forbid you have to learn from your mistakes and get better. Nah, sinking new players is much better for the psyche. Go ahead and give yourself a big pat on the back for all your hard work.

    Most "thieves" in this game are people that want an easy ego boost from sinking kids after consistently getting dog walked in any other game they try to play.

    Orrrrr.... most people who just can't wrap their heads around PvEvP concept, still buy the game, and then cry on forums cause they're bad at the game? 😅

    But it's easier to ask for PvE only servers, so that our Pirate Legends can pat themselves on the back on how good players they are, for defeating a PvE encounter even a 5 year old can solo 😂

    Must be good for ego as well, rather than taking the L cause someone is just better than them in a cartoon pirate game and sank them 🤭

  • @cs-burchie

    It's bad for the long term health of the game. I don't want to steal swabbies' gold, I want them to grow into better players that will give me good fights in the future.

    That won't happen if they isolate themselves in a PvE server until they get bored, are too scared/fragile for high seas, and eventually uninstall.

  • @worst-tdmer said in Complaints about Safer Seas/Safer Seas Fleets...:

    @cs-burchie

    It's bad for the long term health of the game. I don't want to steal swabbies' gold, I want them to grow into better players that will give me good fights in the future.

    That won't happen if they isolate themselves in a PvE server until they get bored, are too scared/fragile for high seas, and eventually uninstall.

    Let's be real, the only fragile thing in cases like that is ego. Nothing more, nothing less.

    All of us were newbies, and got steamrolled over by vets.

    The only difference is, if you can set ego aside, and try to improve. Or not.


    TL:DR - just don't buy a game with PvP if your ego is fragile.

  • @r3vanns

    I came back across these forums maybe a month ago and the only people I've noticed crying are the one's that seemingly do not want to play against other competent players.

    Anyone that would elect to play on a PvE server all the way to PL doesn't give a rat's - you know what - if they're good at the game or not. It is also clear that you do not have children or any young family member that has tried to play this game. A few weeks back I started my six year old nephew on Safer Seas to get him acclimated. Since he's still in summer break he has put in a crazy amount of hours with me in that timeframe (around sixty hours). That is a solid amount of sessions and he's just about at the level cap in the four factions available to him. Unsurprisingly, he still cannot do anything alone, effectively.

    You seriously can't believe that a child can handle all of the multitasking required from this game to have any sort of a fighting chance, right? When I was his age I played Sonic, Super Mario 64, Virtua Fighter, Mortal Kombat.. you get the picture. Basic games where you could focus on a singular objective. I couldn't imagine trying to play a game like SoT against experienced adults. It is a major commitment and time sink to learn the ropes for younger players, yet these are the ones that sociopaths want to "fight". And by sociopaths I'm not generalizing all people that participate in PvP, obviously. Only the ones that I stumble across on a forum whining about the players who'd rather not interact with them and only wish to acquire fake gold, cosmetics and titles in a private server.

    "Welp sorry about it, buddy. You can't progress any further because there's a possibility that you'll get a title that no one has cared about for five or six years. You may also be able to purchase some clothing or some equipment that has no effect on other players and how they choose to navigate the game. That's right! If someone out there discovers that you have certain cosmetics equipped, even though they can't see you, their day would be absolutely ruined. Honestly, you're being completely unreasonable right now in thinking otherwise and I think I'll talk to your dad about grounding you for your selfishness."

    It is also funny to read the aggressor's argument whether it be on Reddit or Youtube that "you can't force others to play how you want to play," yet here you all are. Doing the same thing. What a pity those players can actually enjoy their experience and learn the game at their own pace instead of getting rolled over. If you want to be aggressive towards other ships fine but why would it be such an issue for those ships to have a much greater chance at reciprocating? Because you don't want better fights, it is a massive cope for those lobbying against the possibility of a higher concentration of ships actively seeking out PvP.

    I enjoy PvP (admittedly when I'm not outnumbered three or four to one) given that I'm a somewhat experienced player and can move on with lessons learned from whatever the outcome may be. I understand that you have to lose in order to get better as I've been playing games for close to thirty years. However, the casual gamers are not going to commit to something they view as hopeless. You are only pushing them away.

    I know. I did the same thing back in Halo 2, 3, and Reach. I was 13 - 21 years old during that time period and me and my friends statted and held the objective until the other team quit and felt great doing it. Don't get me wrong, we also loved playing close matches against skilled opponents. They weren't difficult to find either as there was an unbelievably high number of daily players. SoT may not be able to compare to those numbers back then, but when a server is limited to six ships you will always have fights to find. Now they'll just want to find you too.

    I've looked back after mentally maturing and I wished we did things differently when it came to matching up with obvious inferior teams. I'm sure you'll grow up eventually as well. You'll look back and realize your lapse in judgement.

    @worst-tdmer

    Easy targets that get steamrolled will not want to "grow into better players that will give me good fights in the future". You will find all the "good fights" that you could wish for in the future as they will naturally come and will happen more frequently after the lesser experienced players start playing in an isolated server more often. You should be happy, but instead you are worried? I wonder why. The player base is not going to dry up. You are pearl clutching for nothing.

  • @europa4033 said in Complaints about Safer Seas/Safer Seas Fleets...:

    Jeez. I remember a time when sovereign didn't exist, and we had to carry loot in by hand individually. I never once thought about quitting because selling and making gold was such a pain. I also learned quite quickly which outposts were the best to sell at to make it easier. Hint: avoid Daggartooth. We used to have everything organized on the bow, in some cases a million gold-piece haul. Also, the treasure now, is a lot more valuable than back then. We had to dump everything on the pier and get the ship out quickly, since it was vulnerable to attack.

    My friend who got me into SoT also dealt with not having sovereigns. There are plenty of simulator games where I can experience the tedium of tasks like running somewhere, pressing a button, running somewhere else, and pressing a button. This game's implementation is not an enjoyable loop for us, so eliminating it would make the game more appealing for us. It sounds like you have a much higher tolerance for it, or even enjoy it. Just because it's better now doesn't mean it's "good."

    PvP was something I had to get used to, and at first it was also an annoyance, however the more I played, the more experience I acquired, made me a better player. It gave me an adrenaline rush that I still love to this day, especially now that I can sink galleons from a sloop. Best. Feeling. Ever.

    We did the same, setting roles and practicing. We got better. We still don't like it. I don't mind as much as they do, but PvP is typically not for our group, and this game isn't an exception. SoT is large enough to accommodate both types of players, IMO. There are a number of solutions that can be implemented so PvP-focused players can feel properly siloed in their achievements and rewards.

    You can earn tons of things in this game without too much effort. Earning most titles today is much easier than it was on launch - for example, you can just do the story quests in Safer Seas. Does that mean the devs were wrong to implement things to make the game more enjoyable at the cost of some difficulty? Of course not. Removing unfun pain points is the natural progression for any game.

  • @psiovertake8915 said in Complaints about Safer Seas/Safer Seas Fleets...:

    @europa4033 said in Complaints about Safer Seas/Safer Seas Fleets...:

    Jeez. I remember a time when sovereign didn't exist, and we had to carry loot in by hand individually. I never once thought about quitting because selling and making gold was such a pain. I also learned quite quickly which outposts were the best to sell at to make it easier. Hint: avoid Daggartooth. We used to have everything organized on the bow, in some cases a million gold-piece haul. Also, the treasure now, is a lot more valuable than back then. We had to dump everything on the pier and get the ship out quickly, since it was vulnerable to attack.

    My friend who got me into SoT also dealt with not having sovereigns. There are plenty of simulator games where I can experience the tedium of tasks like running somewhere, pressing a button, running somewhere else, and pressing a button. This game's implementation is not an enjoyable loop for us, so eliminating it would make the game more appealing for us. It sounds like you have a much higher tolerance for it, or even enjoy it. Just because it's better now doesn't mean it's "good."

    PvP was something I had to get used to, and at first it was also an annoyance, however the more I played, the more experience I acquired, made me a better player. It gave me an adrenaline rush that I still love to this day, especially now that I can sink galleons from a sloop. Best. Feeling. Ever.

    We did the same, setting roles and practicing. We got better. We still don't like it. I don't mind as much as they do, but PvP is typically not for our group, and this game isn't an exception. SoT is large enough to accommodate both types of players, IMO. There are a number of solutions that can be implemented so PvP-focused players can feel properly siloed in their achievements and rewards.

    You can earn tons of things in this game without too much effort. Earning most titles today is much easier than it was on launch - for example, you can just do the story quests in Safer Seas. Does that mean the devs were wrong to implement things to make the game more enjoyable at the cost of some difficulty? Of course not. Removing unfun pain points is the natural progression for any game.

    Except this is a pvpve game. "Unfun pain points"? Having a PvE server won't work for a game like this, and no amount of complaining will make it so just because you don't like pvp. Get better at defense, keep practicing, and you'll get better, so in the event someone comes at you, you know what to do. No special server required, not painful at all. Unless, as you say, PvP just isn't for your crew, then I guess your only options are to give up and let an attacking crew take your treasure, and scuttle.

  • @cs-burchie

    Swabbies are not getting steamrolled by sweaty players, they're getting steamrolled by swabbies that actually want to fight and get better. Every sweaty player I know lets swabbies go.

    The player base already is drying up. I've already posted stats in this thread on player count/general interest in the game showing a clear decline in both for 5 straight years.

    This will only get worse if Safer Seas removes all restrictions. New players will have 0 incentive to get better at the game, as everything will be handed to them in Safer Seas. Any time they sink to a player, instead of saying "man, I should work on my PvP so I can defend myself", they'll say "screw this, I'm going back to Safer Seas."

    This is terrible for the long term health of the game, because SoT's PvE is by far its weakest link. SoT isn't like games like Helldivers, where PvE is the main focus, PvE in SoT is meant to set the table for player interaction, which will be nonexistent in Safer Seas. Once new players finish their goals in Safer Seas, they'll realize how boring the PvE actually is without the dopamine of a new cosmetic, and won't have the stomach for High Seas; leading to an even steeper decline in numbers and far less player retention.

  • @cs-burchie

    Anyone that would elect to play on a PvE server all the way to PL doesn't give a rat's - you know what - if they're good at the game or not.

    The same way anyone who elects to play the game as intended doesn't care about your projections of them wanting to sink only easy targets.

    Funny how projection can go both ways. Not fun to be on the receiving end of it, eh? 😉

    It is also clear that you do not have children or any young family member that has tried to play this game.

    It is also clear that you're projecting again, and also playing on the "Oh, but think about kids!" card. 😭

    Me having younger family members or not doesn't change the fact this is a PvEvP game, and that it's responsibility of adults to pay attention what games are they purchasing for them. I didn't let your younger family member play in the High Seas. You did. Not my problem.

    However, even still, if I figure out they are newbies and are not spoiled brats, I will actually even offer to help them, and teach them a few things.

    But you shouldn't expect everyone will. It's not their obligation to watch over your kids/cousins after you let them into the sandbox. It's absolutely fine to sink them and take their loot, cause that's what this game is about.

    You seriously can't believe that a child can handle all of the multitasking required from this game to have any sort of a fighting chance, right?

    Well, then they should stay on SS until they can, as that's what SS was designed for. Still doesn't justify people wanting all of the rewards for no risk play.

    I couldn't imagine trying to play a game like SoT against experienced adults. It is a major commitment and time sink to learn the ropes for younger players, yet these are the ones that sociopaths want to "fight". And by sociopaths I'm not generalizing all people that participate in PvP, obviously. Only the ones that I stumble across on a forum whining about the players who'd rather not interact with them and only wish to acquire fake gold, cosmetics and titles in a private server.

    Projecting again are we? Sociopaths...?

    You mean people who spent time and effort learning the game, who also got sunk over and over again, that feel you don't deserve Sea of Farming just because you purchased a PvEvP game and avoid the PvP part of it?

    Sure. 😂

    It is also funny to read the aggressor's argument whether it be on Reddit or Youtube that "you can't force others to play how you want to play," yet here you all are. Doing the same thing.

    Hahah no no no. You're intentionally here deflating the meaning of "play how you want".

    There is a difference between play how you want inside of a PvEvP sandbox, and give us the same rewards while avoiding all the risk.

    Nice try though 😉

    I enjoy PvP (admittedly when I'm not outnumbered three or four to one) given that I'm a somewhat experienced player and can move on with lessons learned from whatever the outcome may be.

    I bet you do, especially after these series of comments, you've convinced us all. Just not PvP in SoT, right? 😅


    I've looked back after mentally maturing and I wished we did things differently when it came to matching up with obvious inferior teams. I'm sure you'll grow up eventually as well. You'll look back and realize your lapse in judgement.

    Well, since you're so mentally mature and grown up, take a few notes Burchie:

    1. Rare added Safer Seas for kids, families, and learning. If kids are not mature enough for HS, they shouldn't play in it, and you are responsible for them.

    2. A few bad apples (that every game has), doesn't warrant changing the core ideology of the game and completely ignoring the rest of the playerbase, cuz again, a few bad apples have fragile egos and can't take a few jabs while getting sunk

    3. Risk vs Reward, open adventure, PvEvP game. If you can't take the heat, get outta kitchen.

  • @europa4033 said in Complaints about Safer Seas/Safer Seas Fleets...:

    Except this is a pvpve game.

    This started as a PvPvE game. Safer Seas allows for a PvE mode.

    Having a PvE server won't work for a game like this, and no amount of complaining will make it so just because you don't like pvp.

    Not true. High Seas can remain PvPvE while Safer Seas can remain PvE. It's already done and working, it just needs a few more improvements.

    "Unfun pain points"?

    Yes, manually sorting loot for a particular faction and carting said loot to their unique location for any given outpost is unfun for us. Alternatively, mitigating PvP participation just to do our gameplay loops is unfun for us. What's hard to understand? You might disagree, but that doesn't change how we feel about these.

    Get better at defense, keep practicing, and you'll get better, so in the event someone comes at you, you know what to do. No special server required, not painful at all.

    I already said:

    We did the same, setting roles and practicing. We got better. We still don't like it.

    Knowing what to do and enjoying doing it are not the same thing. Just because you enjoy it doesn't mean everyone else does.

  • @worst-tdmer said in Complaints about Safer Seas/Safer Seas Fleets...:

    New players will have 0 incentive to get better at the game, as everything will be handed to them in Safer Seas. Any time they sink to a player, instead of saying "man, I should work on my PvP so I can defend myself", they'll say "screw this, I'm going back to Safer Seas."

    This is terrible for the long term health of the game, because SoT's PvE is by far its weakest link. SoT isn't like games like Helldivers, where PvE is the main focus, PvE in SoT is meant to set the table for player interaction, which will be nonexistent in Safer Seas. Once new players finish their goals in Safer Seas, they'll realize how boring the PvE actually is without the dopamine of a new cosmetic, and won't have the stomach for High Seas; leading to an even steeper decline in numbers and far less player retention.

    New players on High Seas will still be motivated to get better because the PvP action is something they enjoy, or PvE with the threat of PvP is fun for them. New players on High Seas who just want to enjoy the PvE content will realize their mistake and go to Safer Seas. Both types of players will gravitate towards the content they enjoy, and cross over to the other server when they want to enjoy that style of content. My friend group enjoys Safer Seas because the gameplay loop is enjoyable. Even the simple act of navigating a ship with environmental hazards is all some people need from SoT. People play this game for a ton of reasons.

    Think of all the thousands of PvP games people don't play anymore. Forcing PvP is "free content" but isn't a solution for long-term health. Enjoyable gameplay loops, personalization, achievements - these can exist on both PvP(vE) and PvE servers. I get that achievements give High Seas players some heartburn if they can also be attained on Safer Seas, but that isn't an argument for pretending Safer Seas is bad for the game, when it's definitely brought in people it normally wouldn't.

    You can be "handed" things on High Seas, too. The only time I spent all night playing SoT I got moved from server to server because I kept ending up being the last one on the server. It was very easy to turn loot in to Reapers because basically nobody was on and I never ran into anyone. You could also join an alliance server, which the devs here have said they don't have an issue with. So it's not like Safer Seas is the only thing invalidating your sense of achievement.

  • @psiovertake8915

    I get that achievements give High Seas players some heartburn if they can also be attained on Safer Seas, but that isn't an argument for pretending Safer Seas is bad for the game, when it's definitely brought in people it normally wouldn't.

    Oh Safer Seas is good for the game. It's very well serving its purpose as a training ground, and for families (and small kids) to get their sea legs. Like it was advertised to do.

    But yea, you do not deserve same treatment/rewards like those High Seas vets, no matter how much you complain about it and pick a strawman apart .

    SoT was always PvEvP game, and always will be. After 7+y, might be time for you people to make peace with it. SS will never have the same treatment as HS, and deservedly so.

  • @r3vanns said in Complaints about Safer Seas/Safer Seas Fleets...:

    SoT was always PvEvP game, and always will be. After 7+y, might be time for you people to make peace with it. SS will never have the same treatment as HS, and deservedly so.

    Always was, sure. Always will be, obviously not, as Safer Seas exists. What level of parity Safer Seas gets is up for debate, but the direction they've taken it has been to add parity over time, not the other way around. It might be time for you people to make peace with it.

    As for "strawman," I haven't said SS should get the same level of treatment as HS, so check your hypocrisy.

  • @psiovertake8915

    Always was, sure. Always will be, obviously not, as Safer Seas exists.

    Yea. It exists. As a training ground restricted as it should be. 😂

    What level of parity Safer Seas gets is up for debate, but the direction they've taken it has been to add parity over time, not the other way around. It might be time for you people to make peace with it.

    Parity? As in having to pay extra just to be able to have another friend ship on a same restricted SS server? And you think this is a sign they're gonna lift some of the SS restrictions?

    Good lord 🤣 The only thing they're successfully managing to do with SS Fleets, is to cash-in on groups of people who can't put their ego aside and play the game as intended lol. And I'm all here for it, props to them!

  • If you can't (or refuse) to deal with the risk of high seas, you don't have to and safer seas is that way--. Just don't expect the same rewards as high seas, or accommodations, such as a sovereign tower. People played this game for years without it, so not having it isn't a big deal. Having to run in everything and the faction level cap is the price you pay. Some things are reserved for those who accept the increased risk.

    Not sure what you mean when you say "Safer Seas is a PvE server, it just needs some improvements"? Improvements like what? Having your captained ship earn milestones in complete safety isn't something they're going to let you do. Yes custom servers are coming, yes you'll be able to invite other friends and ships to your server, but don't get so excited here lol. You won't be earning any gold, rep, achievements, etc.

    Sorry you don't enjoy PvP in a pvpve game, but this is how the game is. Having PvE servers isn't going to stop me from boarding your ship and taking your treasure/supplies. If there's no risk, the game is going to get boring and pointless quick. You said it yourself: you guys found it tedious and painful to collect treasure (unchallenged mind you) and then old-school selling it piece by piece. If spending 5-10min was so boring for you it became your breaking point, then you're already bored with the game. Selling quicker at the end of a zero-danger voyage (and server) isn't going to create excitement for the previous few hours. Safer Seas has restrictions for a reason, just as @R3vanNS said.
    The only improvements I can think of for Safer Seas, are what's in the works already -- letting people practice PvP with each other.

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