No zoom

Or just use the pistol….

Adding a no zoom option would allow players to use the sniper similarly to the pistol but with the advantage of higher precision and greater damage

So. There needs to be drawbacks for each weapon. You’re just making the pistol useless choice because sniper does it better. :p

Why not also allow the pistol to zoom and do more damage?

@mslechtic15 zoom should be a point to balance the sniper around. Allowing players to disable zoom is the same as allowing them to use it with no scope, making it a better pistol (more than it already is).

@fysics3037 Exactly. In terms of mid and close ranged combat you have a plethora of options, including the pistols and throwing knives, and the zoom is an important part of the eye of reach that gives it a specific niche in terms of combat. You can still absolutely "quickscope" with the EoR, but removing the zoom for it would unironically just make it a more powerful flintlock pistol, which would mess with the balance, I think.

@mslechtic15 said in No zoom:

...but sometimes it’s hard for players to orient themselves or track fast movement with the zoom. The option to disable zoom would allow for a more flexible use of the sniper, for example, for quickly aiming at targets at medium distances...

...what?

I'm not alone in this, but I use the EOR for short, mid, and long range shots ALL the time. I use it for fast paced close range deck-fighting, for cross-ship snipes, and pretty much everything. It's arguably the most versatile weapon in the game.

You ever watch SOT streamers? Pretty much all of them use the EOR for exactly what you are claiming it's not good at.

@sweetsandman yeah if anything EoR needs it's close range nerfed. Imo best way to do this would be making the scope in time longer but making the hipfire spread way lower. This would make it accurate at close ranges for sloop, where you don't have the weapon slots to not take sniper, but give it a healthy nerf to Gally where you can afford to introduce some more variety. Gally has longer sightlines the hipfire wouldn't be an effective tool. And ofc brig would land solidly in the middle.

@fysics3037 Meh, rather than yet another offense nerf, how about a buff? The main reason the EOR takes a lot of the Flintlock's thunder at short-to-mid range is because of the increased damage.

Just buff the Flintlock to 65 damage, increase it's hip-fire accuracy a tiny bit, increase the bullet velocity, and watch it take over the EOR's place in deck fighting.

Please no more nerds or input delays that would make combat any more clunky than they've already made it. Please. I beg.

@sweetsandman but that literally just makes flintlock fill the same niche as EoR. Both would be all around weapons, just one with 5 more damage and a slower reload. Not balanceable. The EoR changes I propose wouldn't make the combat clunkier, it'd just make EoR worse at midrange and change the focus from quick scoping to movement and positioning. It'd work very similar to the Kraber from Apex/Titanfall, which is extremely popular and fun to use.

@fysics3037 said in No zoom:

@sweetsandman but that literally just makes flintlock fill the same niche as EoR. Both would be all around weapons, just one with 5 more damage and a slower reload. Not balanceable.

Not balanceable? It's already imbalanced today between the EOR and the Flintlock 😂. If you sped up the projectile but shortened the range with a dramatic drop-off (like the double barrel), that would make it a great short-mid range weapon and leave the EOR to be the long range weapon of choice. Not saying it's the right call, but I'd push for buffing the Flintlock in some way versus nerfing the EOR.

The EoR changes I propose wouldn't make the combat clunkier, it'd just make EoR worse at midrange and change the focus from quick scoping to movement and positioning.

100% slowing down the ADS would make combat clunkier. Every "slow down" mechanic they've added has made combat clunkier. The high skill ship to ship quick scoping would unquestionably be impacted.

If your goal is to simply make the EOR worse at short-to-mid range, then do reverse distance damage scaling. Like at short range it only does 45 damage (deck fighting), but long range does the full 70.

Messing with the timing of the weapon mechanics (again) is a terrible idea.

@sweetsandman "reverse damage dropoff" is completely counter intuitive and makes the new/casual experience worse. That's why nobody uses it. Also ship to ship quick scoping isn't even a thing. There's no reason to quick scope those difficult shots when hitting it is 10x more important than when you hit it. So idk what your point with that is. You'd have the same long range functionality and keep decent close range functionality for the sloop, but lose a lot of the midrange potential that lets it dominate all roles in galleon (and kinda brig) PvP.

I agree that changing timings isn't ideal, but if SoT is ever going to be a competitively viable game the combat has to be more dynamic and varied. When there's only one meta way to play the game becomes stale, people move on, and nothing lasts. There's not really a way to balance the EoR without changing the power of quick scoping. However that doesn't mean the combat has to be worse. The point of my changes is to make it more balanced, keep the key utility across all boats, and keep the combat fun. Will it take getting used to? Sure. But it won't kill the game, if done properly.

@fysics3037 said in No zoom:

@sweetsandman "reverse damage dropoff" is completely counter intuitive and makes the new/casual experience worse. That's why nobody uses it.

Spit balling. I agree it wouldn't be ideal. I don't want to see any more nerfs that impact mechanics and the overall feel of the game. At all.

Also ship to ship quick scoping isn't even a thing. There's no reason to quick scope those difficult shots when hitting it is 10x more important than when you hit it. So idk what your point with that is.

You uhh...don't hourglass much, do you? It absolutely is a thing. For example, go watch iDBZ when he's hourglass streaking and tell me that your idea wouldn't 100% impact not only his play, but also the play of a lot of high skill players.

I agree that changing timings isn't ideal, but if SoT is ever going to be a competitively viable game the combat has to be more dynamic and varied. When there's only one meta way to play the game becomes stale, people move on, and nothing lasts. There's not really a way to balance the EoR without changing the power of quick scoping. However that doesn't mean the combat has to be worse. The point of my changes is to make it more balanced, keep the key utility across all boats, and keep the combat fun. Will it take getting used to? Sure. But it won't kill the game, if done properly.

SOT is a silly pirate game with horrible server performance. Trying to balance toward any semblance of a comp scene is going to have bad results. Period.

Again, buff the Flintlock. Make it the clear choice for short/mid range.

Maaaaybe slightly increase the reload time of the EOR. That would greatly reduce its viability for deck fighting.

The double barrel could be a great short/mid range weapon if it didn't have that absolutely atrocious fire-on-release design. God it's bad.

@sweetsandman said in No zoom:

@fysics3037 said in No zoom:
Spit balling. I agree it wouldn't be ideal. I don't want to see any more nerfs that impact mechanics and the overall feel of the game. At all.

You uhh...don't hourglass much, do you? It absolutely is a thing. For example, go watch iDBZ when he's hourglass streaking and tell me that your idea wouldn't 100% impact not only his play, but also the play of a lot of high skill players.

For your information, I was one of the best HG players on NAW, maining sloop helm, and have over 500 levels of HG experience. I mean there's simply not any reason to be shooting your EoR at range as much as possible by quick scoping. Having to go down and get more ammo leaves you extremely vulnerable and is not the play. Focusing on hitting shots and making your shots count is far more important. And if the changes nerf one hyper specific scenario, I really don't think it matters.

SOT is a silly pirate game with horrible server performance. Trying to balance toward any semblance of a comp scene is going to have bad results. Period.

Only a person who is not a competitive player would think this 😂 I mean you just spoke for competitive players and then immediately out yourself as not a competitive player. Weird but fine ig. There's no "trade off" between skill levels in a proper balancing structure. Adding micro decisions that add up in high level play doesn't impact lower tiers of play. All it's doing is making sure the game stays interesting for longer. And balancing weapons where they are all at least viable in higher tiers of play is just putting a greater level of polish on the weapons, not sacrificing the casual experience. If anything the casual/new experience would be enhanced as choosing different weapons would not be nearly as punishing.

Again, buff the Flintlock. Make it the clear choice for short/mid range.

I just don't think there are any flintlock buffs that could make it reach the level of the EoR. The EoR is far and away more powerful than every other weapon in the game currently, and it shouldn't be the goal to make every weapon that powerful. Reeling in the EoRs power level by nerfing it's mid range capability would give the pistol a place to shine while not making sloop combat feel impossible.

Maaaaybe slightly increase the reload time of the EOR. That would greatly reduce its viability for deck fighting.

This would just make the EoR more clunky. You're adding more delay/waiting around without counterbalancing that with any improvements. 0/10 idea.

The double barrel could be a great short/mid range weapon if it didn't have that absolutely atrocious fire-on-release design. God it's bad.

Yeah.

@Fysics3037 Then you should know very well that ship to ship snipes - specifically quick scoping - is very much a thing. Sloop HG you say? Surely you've been in the both-ships-with-mast-down-just-sniping-and-trying-to-one-ball-each-other-for-30-minutes battle...after all, that's all that most high-level duo HG matches wind up 🤣.

I'm not anywhere near a top level player, but I hold my own and am fully aware of how your idea would impact not only my playstyle, but 100% the playstyle of those much better than me.

Increasing the reload time would throw off muscle memory for consecutive EOR shots, but that'd be an easy relearn without impacting the pre-loaded weapon mechanics. It would increase the EORs TTK without making individual shots more clunky.

Increasing the ADS timing would absolutely make the EOR more clunky to use at ALL ranges, not just short. Hard pass on that.

That said, I absolutely believe that buffing the Flintlock damage and projectile speed (not range) would bring the EOR's short-range supremacy down. That's the goal, right?

@sweetsandman that's not how sloop PvP goes? Once someone has your line you need to double snipe the enemy cannon in order to take back cannons. That typically requires a 3 second countdown for coordination purposes. So no it wouldn't impact every single fight at the high level. Again, if you're not a high level player stop trying to tell the high level player how high level plays 😂

And again, if you're making it more clunky you may as well nerf it in an actually impactful way. Making it clunkier while not adding any countermeasure to make it more fun while not making any impact is just a bad idea. Sorry to burst your bubble on that.

And no the goal is not to make it just suck at short ranges. If the EoR was bad at short range then it would make Sloop so much harder and worse to play. The helm and main cannon both need the EoR to do double snipes. Making it so the EoR is unplayable in the close range would make it so boarders would be basically impossible to kill. Almost every hand to hand scenario on sloop is long range ship to ship shots or close range shots, due to the small size and tight quarters of the sloop. The goal is to nerf the midrange. This way galleon hand to hand that has much more space to play will require more diverse weapons choices, as you can't simply rely on the EoR as a goated all around pick.

My changes are very specifically designed to remove mid range capability. It'd be faster and easier to use a pistol against a boarder on galleon due to the faster and hardly required ads. However you would still be able to hit people across boats with the same level of effectiveness, keeping it as a good choice for helms. Finally you would still have a decent amount of close range utility (from the hipfire spread reduction), making it still useful for sloop players that don't have a choice in taking/not taking it due to the long range effectiveness.

@fysics3037 said in No zoom:

The goal is to nerf the midrange.
My changes are very specifically designed to remove mid range capability.

sounds like we disagree on the problem...why would we want to remove mid-range play from the EOR?

The Flintlock should be short-to-mid range, and the EOR should be mid-to-long range (at least IMO).

The problem is that the EOR is short-to-mid-to-long. It's all the ranges.

Also, your idea doesn't just "very specifically" remove mid range capability, it impacts mid and short range capability while simultaneously making long range more clunky.

@sweetsandman well you need to nerf something. Making it bad at the long range would make no sense cus it's a sniper. Making it bad at close range would completely kill Sloop PvP. And so you make it worse at the mis range. And yeah my idea nerfs it in the close and mid range, but it also brings back a lot of the close range utility, just in a different way.

@d3adst1ck said:

Maybe they could... play with an 'over-damage' that increases the max damage after you've been fully scoped for some time after you achieve best accuracy to give the longer ranges more kick.

I liked Sandman's pistol buff idea but after reading this, I think this is the best solution.

Doesn't touch the mechanics of quick scoping (so no added clunkiness); only nerfs the damage in quick scoping. No artificial sway. Just higher damage the longer you're scoped in.

Make a quickscope less than a flintlock shot and then climb up the longer you're scoped in. Not sure what would be a fair ADS time for full damage though. Maybe a second and a half?

@theblackbellamy But then you would ruin sloop. I mean you have to keep the close range powerful for EoR for sloop combat to be good at all. It's simply required for naval. Making it so the EoR can't always combo with another weapon means you'd force sloop players to hit 3 shots consecutively. They're already at a disadvantage when it comes to boarders, so that is a hefty nerf. This makes the minimum damage of EoR 55 (to keep DB at all relevant), and 55 to 70 is honestly pointless. And to decrease the damage further is to limit the variety of weapons that can be used, which is the exact opposite of what balancing should do.

@fysics3037 said:

And to decrease the damage further is to limit the variety of weapons that can be used, which is the exact opposite of what balancing should do.

Before addressing the rest, real quick:

Balance, in any gaming context, is a give-and-take. Elements are adjusted to ensure no particular option is over or underpowered.

My EoR has always been at my side. It's always been EoR + Flintlock, EoR + Blundy or EoR + Sword for me. And the reason is because it is versatile at all ranges.

If your concern is balance, every other weapon in the game right now has limits, where they are good in a particular range, and then weak in others (due to projectile drop off, speed, spread, damage). The EoR is the only one that dominates in all ranges.

So how do you balance it? Get rid of quick scoping (mechanics)? Boring and clunky. Add a weapon sway? Boring and artificial skill ceiling.

But then you would ruin sloop. I mean you have to keep the close range powerful for EoR for sloop combat to be good at all.

If the quick-scope damage is less than a flintlock (let's say 50) and full-scope-time (let's say 1.5 sec) is full damage (70), this wouldn't necessarily make EoR bad at close range, it would just make other options more viable than they currently are.

It's simply required for naval. Making it so the EoR can't always combo with another weapon means you'd force sloop players to hit 3 shots consecutively.

With how common pineapples are, you better be ready to hit more than 3 shots anyway lol. Regardless, health is 100 still, yes?

Unless these values have changed, last I was aware, the only gun that can't two shot is that goofy DB (45 damage per shot?). Every other gun can kill in two of its own shots, or in combo with another gun.

With 50 per quick-scope shot, you would only have to hit 3 shots if your secondary is the DB. Which may mean the DB needs balancing as well.

Maybe buff its single shot to 50, and either decrease the charge time for its 90-damage shot, or increase the charge time, and give it a one-shot to balance the longer time, and for logical consistency (single = 50, double = 100).

@theblackbellamy the entire hand to hand combat fundamentally is based around how quickly you can swap from one gun to another. That's the "hard limit" and what makes balancing SoT so achievable. If you make every single weapon "combo" with another then the ttk is the same across all combinations, which is ideal. Then you just have to consider how much damage you want each thing to do, because that helps determine how often various splash damage sources can kill. This is why removing the one shot from blunder made sense but changing it's spread didn't. Making it so any one thing can't consistently combo with another kills the weapon.

So changing the EoR to do less than 55 damage would fundamentally destroy the weapon. Having to hit 3 shots just means that the TTK goes up by like 3 seconds, which is insane. This would completely kill sloop as it would effectively become a game of who boards first. To properly naval on sloop you need to have both people in your crew using sniper. That means that if there is a boarder, and your sniper did less than 55 damage, you as an individual, may not be able to kill them effectively based on your second weapon choice. There is very simply not enough weapon slots on sloop to make the EoR bad at close range. And making the EoR do 55 damage with a quick scope is just making it a pistol at close range. And scaling the damage from 55 to 70 is pretty pointless. It'd just make the blunder combat feel even worse as you'd have to hit 5 pellets to get a kill. And making the blunder combat worse is not the move, as again, we want weapon variety.

Also your idea about changing DB from 45 to 50 is absolutely insane. That would make it the best weapons in the game by an absurd amount. Which is bad from a balancing perspective, but also bad from the perspective that it's the clunkiest and worst feeling weapon. People largely do not like using the weapon at all, so making that the meta is ridiculous. Dunno how you didn't realize that the like half second between shots of DB is a little faster than the swap or reload time of every other gun 💀

Anyways. The only option for an EoR nerf is making the mid range worse without severely impacting it's close range capability. That's why I think removing the quick scope but majorly reducing hipfire spread is the best path forward. EoR will always dominate the mid range so long as quick scoping is a thing. There's just no scenario where changing anything else makes it worse without hurting the variety of the game. And so you get rid of that and make it so you can actually hit a hipfire on someone that is near you. This way on sloop the weapon can still be powerful and impactful like it needs to be without having it be absolutely broken on galleon, where there are longer sightlines.

@theblackbellamy said in No zoom:

If the quick-scope damage is less than a flintlock (let's say 50) and full-scope-time (let's say 1.5 sec) is full damage (70), this wouldn't necessarily make EoR bad at close range, it would just make other options more viable than they currently are.

This is a very solid solution. I really like it a lot. They could even add a visual effect indicating when you'll be delivering max damage. Kinda like how the Trident of Dark Tides has that visual indicator on when it will be delivering more damage.

A Flintlock buff is certainly the easier solution, but it would just further obsolete the Double Barrel...which never really took off anyways (for good reason).

@sweetsandman it is not a solid solution, as described below. Anything that makes boarding sloops better is just going to destroy the game for a majority of players.

@fysics3037 said:

So changing the EoR to do less than 55 damage would fundamentally destroy the weapon. Having to hit 3 shots...

I'll ask again, how much is health? Did it change from 100? If quick-scoping does 50 damage as I proposed, how are you getting 3 shots?

You're saying each sloop player should carry a sniper (smart move, I agree). As of right now, two people can cross a player, doing 70 damage each. With this change, two people could still cross a player, doing 50-70 damage each lol.

The only firearm that you wouldn't be able to two-tap in combination with the EoR, is the DB. But if we're going to balance the EoR to make it less viable at particular ranges, then it may require balancing the DB, to make it compliment the EoR better in its short range.

...That means that if there is a boarder, and your sniper did less than 55 damage, you... may not be able to kill them effectively based on your second weapon choice.

If your second choice is the DB*

...making the EoR do 55 damage with a quick scope is just making it a pistol at close range. And scaling the damage from 55 to 70 is pretty pointless.

Making it do 50 damage makes the flintlock more viable at close range. I think if you paired the over-ADS-time effect to the EoR with the flintlock changes Sandman suggested, it would optimize both weapons better for their respective ranges.

And scaling the damage from 50 to 70, along an exponential curve, isn't pointless. It's necessary to make the EoR optimal when scoped in (for 1.5 sec or whatever). The sniper's strengths are its range and its precision, and should do damage accordingly.

It'd just make the blunder combat feel even worse as you'd have to hit 5 pellets to get a kill. And making the blunder combat worse is not the move, as again, we want weapon variety.

Usual server issues aside, if you're not hitting your blundy pellets, it's because you're using it wrong lol. People should be barrel-stuffing with that thing, but so many players blundy snipe and then get mad when their target runs off. In Arena, EoR + blundy was thought of as "training wheels" double gunning.

Use EoR + flintlock if you're planning to keep distance. If you have a blundy, use it to guard ladders or make sure you're hitting point blank; otherwise don't use it 🤷‍♂️.

Also your idea about changing DB from 45 to 50 is absolutely insane. That would make it the best weapons in the game by an absurd amount. Which is bad from a balancing perspective, but also bad from the perspective that it's the clunkiest and worst feeling weapon. People largely do not like using the weapon at all, so making that the meta is ridiculous. Dunno how you didn't realize that the like half second between shots of DB is a little faster than the swap or reload time of every other gun 💀

In reverse, I didn't realize "the like half second between shots" because I used the thing for maybe less than a minute since it was released. So I'll admit an oversight. My bad.

But when I suggested a rebalancing for damage, I guess I'm also open to a re-working of the gun to also make it more viable, without making it overpowered. Just to push back on your logic though, if something is both overpowered and unwieldy... doesn't that balance it? The exchange of power for unwieldiness?

In any case, I'm not in favor of making anything both powerful and spammable. So if that means other changes to the DB, then make other changes.

...That's why I think removing the quick scope but majorly reducing hipfire spread is the best path forward... This way on sloop the weapon can still be powerful and impactful like it needs to be without having it be absolutely broken on galleon, where there are longer sightlines.

The wide hipfire spread is one of the things that is currently keeping the EoR balanced lol. People can "pistol spam" already. If you tighten the EoR's spread to compete with the flintlock, you take away the flintlock's utility. If it's wide enough that it's still inaccurate, then people aren't going to hipfire with it anyway, making any changes pointless.

Plus, you were concerned with the EoR's TTK but are suggesting to remove quick-scoping, which will be worse for its TTK.

Instead, if quick-scope damage is 50, and health is still 100, and math is still math... then there would be no difference in the TTK, from what it currently is while quick-scoping. Two EoR shots is two EoR shots.

@theblackbellamy

I'll ask again, how much is health? Did it change from 100? If quick-scoping does 50 damage as I proposed, how are you getting 3 shots?

You're saying each sloop player should carry a sniper (smart move, I agree). As of right now, two people can cross a player, doing 70 damage each. With this change, two people could still cross a player, doing 50-70 damage each lol.

The only firearm that you wouldn't be able to two-tap in combination with the EoR, is the DB. But if we're going to balance the EoR to make it less viable at particular ranges, then it may require balancing the DB, to make it compliment the EoR better in its short range.

The game should not be balanced around people constantly crossing. That's not a realistic expectation of how hand to hand combat plays. And it would also make one balls 100x more impactful as it would basically be a "free board". Additionally it would disproportionately impact solo players who also rely on the sniper. Your changes make it so players literally just do not have the option to run certain weapons, which is the exact opposite of what the balancing in this game needs to do. And there aren't any good reworks for the DB that are going to make it strong enough to combo with 50 damage but weak enough to not be broken. Make it do 50 damage? it's broken. Make the charge shot faster? you've removed the whole "2 shots" part of the weapon. Make it shoot absurdly fast? instant 90 damage weapon... maybe not balanced huh.

Making it do 50 damage makes the flintlock more viable at close range. I think if you paired the over-ADS-time effect to the EoR with the flintlock changes Sandman suggested, it would optimize both weapons better for their respective ranges.

And scaling the damage from 50 to 70, along an exponential curve, isn't pointless. It's necessary to make the EoR optimal when scoped in (for 1.5 sec or whatever). The sniper's strengths are its range and its precision, and should do damage accordingly.

You cannot make the EoR worse at close range! I've explained how that would destroy sloop gameplay like 20 times idk why you're still on that. Making the EoR worse at midrange is ideal. That way people like the flex or MC might consider taking a pistol for the superior combat utility when on the deck of the galleon. They don't need the range from the EoR as much due to them having the cannon. And they wouldn't need the close range utility of the EoR because of how big the gallon is. THIS GIVES VARIETY AND CHOICE WITHOUT MAKING THE GAME WORSE FOR SMALLER CREWS

Usual server issues aside, if you're not hitting your blundy pellets, it's because you're using it wrong lol. People should be barrel-stuffing with that thing, but so many players blundy snipe and then get mad when their target runs off. In Arena, EoR + blundy was thought of as "training wheels" double gunning.

Use EoR + flintlock if you're planning to keep distance. If you have a blundy, use it to guard ladders or make sure you're hitting point blank; otherwise don't use it 🤷‍♂️.

Blunderbuss is essential for helms on all boats because of the boarder prevention power it provides. And helms in general are the people responsible for boarder 1v1s. If you make the EoR and blunder just terrible together then you're going to get massive problems with people being way too weak. Boarders are a completely different role which means that if you make double pistol like 5x better than blundie snipe you're basically just selling the game's combat. This is already a problem with the terrible spread change that blunderbuss received, but it'd be even worse with a terrible EoR change. And again, sloops are even more negatively impacted by this because of how few weapon slots they have. When 3 of them are basically set (2 EoR, 1 blunder) due to the proper mechanics of those weapons being basically essential, making those 3 terrible is just going to destroy ANY competitive viability of the boat.

But when I suggested a rebalancing for damage, I guess I'm also open to a re-working of the gun to also make it more viable, without making it overpowered. Just to push back on your logic though, if something is both overpowered and unwieldy... doesn't that balance it? The exchange of power for unwieldiness?

NO THAT'S CLUNKY.

The wide hipfire spread is one of the things that is currently keeping the EoR balanced lol. People can "pistol spam" already. If you tighten the EoR's spread to compete with the flintlock, you take away the flintlock's utility. If it's wide enough that it's still inaccurate, then people aren't going to hipfire with it anyway, making any changes pointless.

The EoR spread is not being tightened to compete with flintlock, it's being tightened to still be useful on sloop. Obviously there is a range of values that would work where it's inaccurate enough to not be broken but accurate enough to be useful, because this already exists in Apex/Titanfall with the Kraber. Just saying "oh that's not gonna work" is not an argument.

Plus, you were concerned with the EoR's TTK but are suggesting to remove quick-scoping, which will be worse for its TTK.

Removing quick scoping does nothing to ttk if there is another better option in a close range hipfire. That's the whole reason I said "they should reduce the spread on its hipfire."

Instead, if quick-scope damage is 50, and health is still 100, and math is still math... then there would be no difference in the TTK, from what it currently is while quick-scoping. Two EoR shots is two EoR shots.

At the highest level MC isn't even supposed to get off cannon to help kill boarder. It's not realistic to expect people to HAVE to cross another person, and it doesn't even make any sense. In what world does it make sense that one boarder should take two defenders to kill in a reasonable time? What if the sloop is up against a gallon and they just send 3 boarders?? It's also not like reloading EoR is a spot to balance around because of how long the reload time is. And before you say it, making it reload faster would make it 20x more annoying in ship to ship combat. Your suggestion is short sighted and takes assumptions about top level play that are simply not true.

@fysics3037 said in No zoom:

You cannot make the EoR worse at close range!

Your idea of removing quick-scope literally does just that. Short range would unquestionably be the most impacted by a quick-scope removal.

You know how you make Sloop boarder defending better? Simple...undo most of the necessary nonsensical changes they made to the Blunderbuss. Keep the pellet spread increase, undo everything else.

You know how you make the DB Flintlock a viable weapon? Simple, change the silly fire-on-release mechanic to fire on press (lots of ways to do that) and add a knockback element (like the Blunderbuss) to its charged shot. Then, it becomes an awesome tool.

@sweetsandman bro it's like you guys can only read one sentence per response. That's why I suggested making a major hipfire spread decrease, which would probably give it an even better close range capability than it has now.

@fysics3037 said in No zoom:

@sweetsandman bro it's like you guys can only read one sentence per response. That's why I suggested making a major hipfire spread decrease, which would probably give it an even better close range capability than it has now.

If you make the hipfire as good as the Flintlock (or even close), you would either obsolete the Flintlock, or make the EoR+Flintlock combo comically OP. ..or both.

If you make it much worse than the Flintlock, you make it too unreliable at short range - and thus - make it worse at short range, which you say isn't an option for balancing purposes.

@sweetsandman This is literally not true. Like I already addressed that exact response but I guess I will say it for you one more time. Apex/Titanfall use an extremely similar system for their "Kraber" which lets you get clips like this: https://www.tiktok.com/@genburten1/video/6947176419097152769 (if there's swearing I didn't listen to it with volume on)

Like what you're saying just aint true. You can pretty much always hit a noscope pistol shot on sloop, I'm not saying it needs to be that accurate. It just needs to be accurate enough where with good positioning, movement, and aim you can reasonably use it over scoping in. And would the pistol be a better option for just hand to hand combat? yeah probably. But that's the whole point. You take sniper with a slightly worse close range but the ability to cross people off cannons (which is essential for sloop combat). It just can't be so weak that boarding sloops turns into a free kill fest. And on galleon, this massively inaccurate hipfire would be basically pointless. Which encourages roles that don't need it to not use it at all, like MC or Flex.