A Few Suggestions on Safer Seas

  • toast1764
    Ship Mate

    I really think Safer Seas is a good idea (and I'm a strong advocate for keeping the PvPvE dynamic alive) and Safer Seas could actually help with that. But, it really has some huge flaws.

    My point is that new players will get too used to the warm waters of Safer Seas. They won't want to leave until they reach level 40, and if they try, they will simply see that there are just two more world events (Fort of Fortune and Fort of the Damned) for them to do and 10-35 levels for them to gain. They might just stay in Safer Seas, preventing the rest of the community from growing.

    Commendations and achievements being fully available (besides Athena and Reaper related ones) also give reason for lots of the game's grind to be done in Safer Seas. Why fish in the High Seas when you can do it safely? There are gems and breaths of the sea for reputation for Hunter's Call anyway. Why do anything that isn't for reputation or gold on High Seas?

    I feel that it wouldn't be a bad idea to prevent all commendations and achievements apart from the ones in Tall Tales from being earned in Safer Seas, as well as limiting reputation to 30 to match the gold and reputation penalty.

    If the experience is truly limited on Safer Seas, it will help to give new players that final push to play in High Seas, like an adolescent bird pushed from the nest. Not necessarily sink or swim anymore, but comfort zones usually have to be left to truly enjoy a game like this.

    It's a great option for families and more, but I'm more on the effect it will have on the average new player. I want to see swabbies on the seas with some experience under their belts (and maybe that belt won't be the sailor's belt).

    It breaks my heart when I worry I just made a new player quit. I nearly gave up this game because of the sink or swim energy, but Steam didn't let me return it because I had played for an hour too long. I'm glad I didn't, because I have had some truly amazing experiences. I want more newbies to really stick to this game like kraken ink and iven up the community. I'm excited for the effect Safer Seas could have, but I worry if the restrictions are still too loose to have the intended effect.

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  • BurnBacon
    Vanguard
    Insider

    Yup. Yup. Why leave the safe space? It just a few extra lvl and your still experiencing the game (not as it should be experienced)

    But yup.

  • Look Behind You
    Vanguard
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    Moderator
    Founder
    Deckhand

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    @BurnBacon I realise you are not on board with it but...posting in every nearly thread with essentially the same thing is excessive.

  • ManipulateHavoc
    Ship Mate

    I agree with this. The reduction needs to be a tad bit heavier. The Safer Seas should not be seen as an alternate method of progression, but simply obligatory practice for the main game.

  • iCtus XXI
    Master
    Insider

    As a middle ground you could lock bilge rat comms as well as hunters call, reaper and athena entirely - and cap the other trading company comms at grade II. That way you can start some progression in safer seas and practice it as a new player and „get hooked“ - and then move to high seas.

  • Capt Pilotes
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    My take on this is once you reach the level cap (that should be 30 imo) the gold you earn from things is drastically reduced to a 10-15% instead of 30% to push players out of the Safe Seas into High Seas.

    As a new player, you have the opportunity of experiencing Sea of Thieves but once you reach the level cap you should experience a slower rate of gainings to push you into High Seas and complete commendations and achievements there.

    Safe Seas should be a practice tool to learn how to take faster on world events to prevent PVP surprises once you go into High Seas.

  • RikJaxx
    Marauder

    I think Safer Seas will be used heavily for Tall Tales and Adventures and that is a wonderful thing. High Seas will still be more fun for everything else. New players will get bored of Safer Seas after awhile and venture onto the High Seas anyway. It should prove to bring in more players. I really hope so at least.

  • DjMonkeyGamer
    Castaway

    @rikjaxx said in A Few Suggestions on Safer Seas:

    I think Safer Seas will be used heavily for Tall Tales and Adventures and that is a wonderful thing. High Seas will still be more fun for everything else. New players will get bored of Safer Seas after awhile and venture onto the High Seas anyway. It should prove to bring in more players. I really hope so at least.

    Yeah the tall tales is something but also 30% and reaching level 40 is the way forward for new players.

  • CoffeeLight5545
    Legend
    Insider

    @ictus-xxi said in A Few Suggestions on Safer Seas:

    As a middle ground you could lock bilge rat comms as well as hunters call, reaper and athena entirely - and cap the other trading company comms at grade II. That way you can start some progression in safer seas and practice it as a new player and „get hooked“ - and then move to high seas.

    Why lock hunters call? Fishing is annoying when you have another ship attack you while you are fishing. Fishing ships have no loot whatsoever and most PvP players enjoy the hunt without collecting loot.

    You realize that captaincy isn’t available in safer seas so you can’t progress trinkets. No one who is a veteran will be using the Safer Seas. I’m kinda sad that it’s worthless to me. I had to learn the hard way. I didn’t have a tutorial that told me how to fish. I learned through trial and error.

  • iCtus XXI
    Master
    Insider

    @coffeelight5545 safer sea is supposed to be an extended tutorial to the game - a maiden voyage 2.0. it shouldn’t be a safe haven for completing commendations.

  • BurnBacon
    Vanguard
    Insider

    Few months down the road. (Next year) Gonna start seeing complaints on why they can’t allow features in safer seas. Etc etc

    You know because it better for them to play safer seas why can’t they have everything. :p

    It’s hourglass problem all over again

  • CoffeeLight5545
    Legend
    Insider

    @ictus-xxi said in A Few Suggestions on Safer Seas:

    @coffeelight5545 safer sea is supposed to be an extended tutorial to the game - a maiden voyage 2.0. it shouldn’t be a safe haven for completing commendations.

    I disagree, Commendations should be allowed. Certain commendations shouldn’t be completed in a safe space so that’s why the FOTD and the FoF aren’t in the safe seas. While technically the commendations are there they can’t be completed because those events can’t activate. Players can’t utilize 4 of the factions so their commendations are also unable to be completed.

    I was once attacked while trying to complete the party boat achievement. It would be nice to complete commendations like lighting the Flames of Fate beacons without being interrupted.

    Not all commendations can be achieved and I’m fine with that but to lock all achievements just so you can have an easy PvP target I strongly disagree.

  • Raaaavus
    Seafarer
    Insider

    This is exactly why I'm confused on why they elected to go with safer seas, and not just expanding Custom Servers...

  • Liberance
    Master

    @rikjaxx said in A Few Suggestions on Safer Seas:

    I think Safer Seas will be used heavily for Tall Tales and Adventures and that is a wonderful thing.

    I think this is a pity, personally.

    Shores of Gold remains the best set of Tall Tales released yet because it used the shared world fully. Doing The Art of the Trickster can be exhilarating because it makes you spend quite a bit of time in Plunder Valley, a very transited island, and later on sail half the seas with an explosive barrel on board that you cannot lose. Same goes for several others. Just returning to whichever outpost or seapost you started from only to find another crew anchored there added the extra spice needed to the adventure.

    I've also run into several players that openly say they don't bother those who appear to be doing Tall Tales, and even some who help people doing whatever quest they're doing. Missing out on those experiences would be a shame.

  • iCtus XXI
    Master
    Insider

    @coffeelight5545 you disagree with the idea behind safer seas? The idea IS that it’s supposed to be for newer players getting to know the game. Not for seasoned players like you and I to grind 100 vaults in peace.

    The commendations should either be completely locked or capped at grade II or III for that reason.

  • PithyRumble
    Rogue
    Insider

    @burnbacon said in A Few Suggestions on Safer Seas:

    Few months down the road. (Next year) Gonna start seeing complaints on why they can’t allow features in safer seas. Etc etc

    You know because it better for them to play safer seas why can’t they have everything. :p

    It’s hourglass problem all over again

    Next year? There was already a thread asking to have the baby tossed with the wash water 😂

    Remember lots of games don't give you achievements/trophies at all if you play on easy mode.

    I think it's reasonable like giving loser rep on hg.

  • gunnner1
    Marauder
    Insider

    @rikjaxx said in A Few Suggestions on Safer Seas:

    New players will get bored of Safer Seas after awhile and venture onto the High Seas anyway.

    At least players would have a choice, so that if they do venture on high seas and get sunk, it is more palatable.

    It should prove to bring in more players. I really hope so at least.

    I believe it absolutely will as players will have more choice about the difficulty they encounter.

  • gunnner1
    Marauder
    Insider

    @liberance said in A Few Suggestions on Safer Seas:

    @rikjaxx said in A Few Suggestions on Safer Seas:

    I think Safer Seas will be used heavily for Tall Tales and Adventures and that is a wonderful thing.

    I think this is a pity, personally.
    Missing out on those experiences would be a shame.

    Some players may decide they want more danger trying a tall tale. Those players may play the tall tale on high seas. This gives players more options on how they want to play, never a bad idea when trying to please all types of players

  • Cpt SockMonster
    Champion
    Insider

    This might be an unpopular idea.

    But the one thing i would like to see, is Max Two Ships instead of a Solo Ship, with PvP being the purpose.
    This way if a veteran player invites a friend to try the game out and likes it, they can practice fighting each other in a safe space & learn the basics.

    if safer sea's is all about allowing players to get an idea of what sot is, then PvP should be included.
    Yes you can cannon ghost & skeleton ships, but...

    • Skeletons & ghosts don't manage their ship like players.
    • Skeletons & ghosts don't board your ship.
      I fear that new players wil leave safer sea's and join the high sea's with no PvP experience,
      they get sunk and go back to safer sea's or quit the game entirely.
  • CoffeeLight5545
    Legend
    Insider

    @ictus-xxi said in A Few Suggestions on Safer Seas:

    @coffeelight5545 you disagree with the idea behind safer seas? The idea IS that it’s supposed to be for newer players getting to know the game. Not for seasoned players like you and I to grind 100 vaults in peace.

    The commendations should either be completely locked or capped at grade II or III for that reason.

    I don’t disagree with the idea of Safer Seas. I disagree that commendations should be locked. What if a new player encounters the Shrouded Ghost? You really want to punish someone for being new? Do you want to punish a veteran for taking time to teach someone new?

    Locking commendations are wrong and punish people for being new or helpful!

  • CoffeeLight5545
    Legend
    Insider

    @cpt-sockmonster your idea of having 2 ships is interesting in teaching PvP but you can still practice on skeletons. Yes, skeletons don’t do the double gunning rabbit hopping but you can still learn the basics. In response to your suggestion, I would suggest turning off friendly fire. In other words, your ship mates can kill you. This can teach you PvP and also teach you restraint when 2 crews team up to take down a world event

    @ictus-xxi I understand that you aren’t on board with this new “Safe Space” idea. However you forget that Server Alliances still exist. Server Alliances are a safe PvE server that has ALL features unlocked! What’s stopping you from joining a Server Alliance? Rare wants this Safe Seas to be a training space. That’s why the 4 reputations are locked at LV 40 and the others have been removed. Captaincy, FOTD, FoF and the Chest of Fortune have all been removed. There is literally no way to earn Athena Fortune reputation since the 2 world events that have any Athena loot are locked. Even Pirate Legend voyages that you have in your inventory cannot be used. What commendations are left? Completing Gold Hoarder vaults? Many of the commendations in the 4 factions have no reason to be completed before doing so doesn’t unlock anything.

    Many people have claimed that people may never want to leave the Safe Space and brave Adventure mode. This is true, however people fail to realize how many people have already quit the Sea of Thieves and will never return! This mode will bring more players to the Sea of Thieves but if these new players can’t handle the PvEvP sandbox mode they will just quit the game regardless. Either way the result is the same. I believe the “Safer Seas” that Rare described is perfect as is and SHOULD allow commendations AND achievements to be completed.

  • GaudierPuppy866
    Marauder

    @coffeelight5545 said in A Few Suggestions on Safer Seas:

    @ictus-xxi said in A Few Suggestions on Safer Seas:

    @coffeelight5545 you disagree with the idea behind safer seas? The idea IS that it’s supposed to be for newer players getting to know the game. Not for seasoned players like you and I to grind 100 vaults in peace.

    The commendations should either be completely locked or capped at grade II or III for that reason.

    I don’t disagree with the idea of Safer Seas. I disagree that commendations should be locked. What if a new player encounters the Shrouded Ghost? You really want to punish someone for being new? Do you want to punish a veteran for taking time to teach someone new?

    Locking commendations are wrong and punish people for being new or helpful!

    Most of the people against commendations in safer seas aren't against them because the players are new, but because some commendations would be easier to get on safer seas than on high seas. Take the example you gave, the shrouded ghost commendation. In high seas, it usually only occurs when there are no world events active, which can require PvP when other players get involved with the world events. Furthermore, it could happen to any ship on the server. In safer seas, there would be no resistance to completing world events, and there would be a 100% chance of it happening to the ship on safer seas, since they would be the only ship on the server.

  • CoffeeLight5545
    Legend
    Insider

    @gaudierpuppy866

    You can make the same argument for Alliance Servers! Some alliances servers will take a day and devote it entirely for hunting megladons. What that means is all 5 or 6 ships sailing around the edge of the map until a megladon is spawned. They all take turns shooting it with their guns so the entire server gets credit for the kill.

    I agree that some veterans will take advantage of the Safer Seas to try and kill the Shrouded Ghost or complete other commendations. The problem is that it’s easier to create an alliance server to cheese commendations especially since normal servers don’t have any restrictions.

    Sad thing is that you can’t stop people from bending or breaking the rules. So many hourglass hackers have already been banned but they just create new alt accounts. Until Rare address the root issue you can’t stop cheating. Why punish the players who follow the rules and play fair? Rare has no tolerance for cheating or using a game mode for unauthorized uses. Individuals taking advantage of the new mode will either be corrected or the unauthorized action will be disabled in a future update.

  • JazZach
    Rogue

    Safer sea will bring a lot of people not suited for this game at all and will end with a TON of crying for 1 to 1 safer seas. It's a slippery slope and I'm afraid Rare is too far gone. I too think within one year Rare will cave and Safer Seas will be PvE only high seas. They seem to have abandoned all loyalty to the playerbase that got them here.

    Rare will learn their lesson though. The PvPvE is really what makes this game stand out save maybe the sailing mechanic. When it's dead, so is the sandbox and the game more than likely. After all, what would then be separating it from Skull and Bones? The cheaters and bugs?

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    @jazzach said in A Few Suggestions on Safer Seas:

    Safer sea will bring a lot of people not suited for this game at all and will end with a TON of crying for 1 to 1 safer seas. It's a slippery slope and I'm afraid Rare is too far gone. I too think within one year Rare will cave and Safer Seas will be PvE only high seas. They seem to have abandoned all loyalty to the playerbase that got them here.

    Rare will learn there lesson though. The PvPvE is really what makes this game stand out save maybe the sailing mechanic. When it's dead, so is the sandbox and the game more than likely. After all, what would then be separating it from Skull and Bones? The cheaters and bugs?

    High volume casual play is what got us all here

    Long term high hour veteran play isn't the majority of what keeps this game going. It's the drama, it's been what has lead to many players leaving the game because of the status chasing leanings of long term extreme play here.

    We are here right now because of those that would have and will benefit from safer seas.

    Safer seas exists because of extreme veteran play, not because they aren't suited for the game.

    New players will be just fine going forward and so will the game. They have more opportunity now. They will rise over time and will become the veteran players. I just hope they aren't as harsh in their experience and feedback as our generation of piracy has been.

  • Cpt SockMonster
    Champion
    Insider

    @coffeelight5545 said in A Few Suggestions on Safer Seas:

    @cpt-sockmonster your idea of having 2 ships is interesting in teaching PvP but you can still practice on skeletons. Yes, skeletons don’t do the double gunning rabbit hopping but you can still learn the basics. In response to your suggestion, I would suggest turning off friendly fire. In other words, your ship mates can kill you. This can teach you PvP and also teach you restraint when 2 crews team up to take down a world event

    Again, yes you can practice against skeletons, but that won't teach you the basics of fighting off other players much at all.
    Players behave so much different from skeletons. You need to fight other players to learn the basics of PvP and gain experience.
    I don't think turning off friendly fire is a good idea, because again that wouldnt create the experience of what it would be like for another crew to roll up and fight you, and it would be annoying to deal with friendly fire doing a world event while everyone is trying to hit the boss.

    Players need to fight players to give PvP experience, fighting AI won't help you that much, yes fighting AI ships helps a lot with navaling skills, but thats where it stops, because it doesnt teach you how to manage your ship like in a PvP fight (Players demasting you, Ladder guarding a boarder, Keeping your ship afloat while there is an enemy in the water, etc).

    I would love for something that can help Player crews to fight each other in a safe space, or even opportunities were veterans could hop on safer sea's with newer players to teach them the PvP ropes, this way a mentor is involved aswel as a good challenger that can give newer players good and fun PvP experience.

  • toast1764
    Ship Mate

    @ictus-xxi said in A Few Suggestions on Safer Seas:

    As a middle ground you could lock bilge rat comms as well as hunters call, reaper and athena entirely - and cap the other trading company comms at grade II. That way you can start some progression in safer seas and practice it as a new player and „get hooked“ - and then move to high seas.

    Ohh I forgot about grades! That's not a bad idea, it'd accomplish what the devs seemed to want and would prevent the non-new players from only wanting to do Safer Seas for progression.

  • toast1764
    Ship Mate

    @coffeelight5545 said in A Few Suggestions on Safer Seas:

    @ictus-xxi said in A Few Suggestions on Safer Seas:

    @coffeelight5545 you disagree with the idea behind safer seas? The idea IS that it’s supposed to be for newer players getting to know the game. Not for seasoned players like you and I to grind 100 vaults in peace.

    The commendations should either be completely locked or capped at grade II or III for that reason.

    I don’t disagree with the idea of Safer Seas. I disagree that commendations should be locked. What if a new player encounters the Shrouded Ghost? You really want to punish someone for being new? Do you want to punish a veteran for taking time to teach someone new?

    Locking commendations are wrong and punish people for being new or helpful!

    I considered mentioning the devs simply not allowing the Shrouded Ghost in Safer Seas. Doing that would probably be best anyway, as from what I hear it's a tougher fight than a regular megalodon or kraken. New players could then sink from it, only adding to the pain later. Not having something that tough and rare (along with any similar things I'm forgetting) spawn in Safer Seas may resolve much of the issue.

  • Merlin MAV K
    Ship Mate

    @toast1764

    Do people get PVP'd when fighting Megaladons? Ive played since launch and have never seen the Ghost, and killed plenty of Megs.

    This thing where people merely IMAGINE what someone on Safer Seas might do, or be able to do, and getting worked up about it is kind of bananas.

    Also are people allowed to experience actual gameplay in SS or not? Because a lot of the arguments around here seem to suggest it should exist solely as a virtually empty and near pointless tech demo.

  • JazZach
    Rogue

    @wolfmanbush

    Right but would those players have kept coming back if they got everything they wanted in their first playthrough?

    That's the thing I think PvEers fail to realize. Without speed bumps they ZOOOOOOOOM through content. Rare took a year and added effectively one new activity (sirens song) to the game. This is not even close to the pace required to keep up with a PvE only version of the game. It would have the opposite effect, we would bleed players from both ends.

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    @jazzach said in A Few Suggestions on Safer Seas:

    @wolfmanbush

    Right but would those players have kept coming back if they got everything they wanted in their first playthrough?

    That's the thing I think PvEers fail to realize. Without speed bumps they ZOOOOOOOOM through content. Rare took a year and added effectively one new activity (sirens song) to the game. This is not even close to the pace required to keep up with a PvE only version of the game. It would have the opposite effect, we would bleed players from both ends.

    Captaincy is ultimately your answer

    I played captaincy exactly as it was designed and after 9 months they used the data to make the decision that a whole lot less people see captaincy how I do (and how the original design and stated design was) so they changed pretty much everything about it in the significance category.

    The player base is more casual now and the game will follow that.

    I 100% empathize with what some of the long players are going through because I am going through it as well but it does not change the reality of what exists for the game.

    That's why the game will do fine even though some of us will move on in the near future, because they are truly serving the majority. That's just how life goes as time goes on.

  • iCtus XXI
    Master
    Insider

    @coffeelight5545 fine, exclude the shrouded ghost commendation and make that achieveable or just dont have the SG enabled in safer sea (that would be a huge sellingpoint for veterans to not go there). However you wont be able to progress the athena commendation tied to it anyways since thats already confirmed to be locked and not up for debate.

    Your argument about alliance servers is worthless as Rare doesnt support them and it's even forbidden on the official discord to advertise for them; essentially they are outlawed. Just because players figured out ways to get 5-6 ships under their control in one server and abuse that to farm gold and comms, doesnt mean that rare should take that as an example to shape safer sea servers. With the same logic you could advocate for aimassists, as players figured out a way to wiggle one in with third party tools? Ofc thats a little exaggerated but thats really just going one step further than you concluded would be a good argument for Safer seas being commendation safe havens.

    But you are straving away from the main point, making up hypothetical scenarios without focusing on the issue this whole comment thread is talking about. To get back to it:

    I think that locking at least the following commendations at grade II or III would be a very good idea: GH vaults (grade II is 10, grade III is 25), Ghost ship voyage completions (grade II is 5, grade III 15) and lost shipments (grade II is 15, grade III 25) and animals (grade II is 20, grade III 50) for merchant. You cannot reasonably tell me, that anyone grinding for PL would realistically grind any of these commendation to grade III (on normal servers that is). You would maybe maybe get one of these comms to grade III but never all of them. Now given that rep is cut short to 30% if you want to grind to lvl 40 in the main trading factions you would certainly end up well beyond the grade III threshhold for pretty much all of these comms, as fotd and fof are disabled and you gotta get your stuff from somewhere.

    Essentially new players would come out of the safer sea servers with no reason to do these "risky" voyages at all. Seasoned players on the other hand that are just grinding commendations and dont care about gold would also just knock these out on safer sea. Which would lead to noone really doing any of these voyages on the high sea anymore. This would be bad because it would basically remove them from the sandbox on "high sea".

    Furthermore, as said earlier, safer sea servers are for newer players to learn the game. Safer seas is advertised like that and is supposed to be a maiden voyage 2.0, wether you like it or not. And for that, you do not need more than 10 vaults or 5 ghost fleets or 15 lost shipments or 20 animals to know learn how these voyages function. Reviewing those numbers I think grade II is more than sufficient too. You do not need to do 50 animals until you figured out how they work and until you can do the voyages on high seas. Every use beyond "learning" the game that you will be able to squeeze out of safer seas will go directly against the idea behind it and would reinforce the arguments of the people slandering "safer sea" as PVE servers.

    Lastly bilge rat comms with the exlusion of the SG should be locked because if every worldevent except the FoF is enabled there, you could just grind all the other worldevent commendations except for the ones that require another crew on safer sea, which would lead all worldevents on high sea, except FoF, completely barren.

    And no, you are wrong, I am not against the idea of safe spaces for new players. I am however against safe spaces for seasoned players, as that would be a PVE server and would betray the spirit of the game.

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