Karma system for captain ships and possible implementation.

If a karma system is entirely based on people in the same server rating you at a tavern, i predict that some people would abuse it and score everyone under the sun as evil, especially if a bounty system came into play for any ship with low karma. Speaking of the bounty system, if some one sunk you for your bounty, would that reset your karma? Or would you have an eternal bounty on you since you have low karma constantly?

If they added a karma system to gauge peoples intent, something im not so sure about since not knowing some ones intentions is intended, then i think it would have to be completely separate from a bounty system if bounties were ever added.

@scaliebait2 said in Karma system for captain ships and possible implementation.:

@goldsmen dijo en Karma system for captain ships and possible implementation.:

If a karma system is entirely based on people in the same server rating you at a tavern, i predict that some people would abuse it and score everyone under the sun as evil, especially if a bounty system came into play for any ship with low karma. Speaking of the bounty system, if some one sunk you for your bounty, would that reset your karma? Or would you have an eternal bounty on you since you have low karma constantly?

If they added a karma system to gauge peoples intent, something im not so sure about since not knowing some ones intentions is intended, then i think it would have to be completely separate from a bounty system if bounties were ever added.

I was thinking in that you can only give karma to the ship you view with your spyglass, so basically a ship that is registered in your Captain's Logbook. The bounty system is a thing that I also don't know how it will work exactly. It's and idea that can be scraped or someone can expand.

Still even if it is a captain ship only system, that doesnt mean people wouldnt abuse it and score every ship that they can as hostile. Systems that take player feedback on other players tend to be easily abused.

I agree, i think it would be good, doing bad things results in bad karma, similar to Fable, where if you were bad you got devil horns, and started to smell. Its easy to program things into the game that would be frowned upon, hitting friends with blunder bombs, etc setting your own ship on fire, shooting un-provoked ships.. it does say in the pirate code to "settle disputes on the seas" not start disputes on the seas, if you know what i mean. I think doing good things as in alliancing, or helping people fight skeleton ships, or krakens would result in good karma, bad karma results it less money/rep from selling, good karma increases it? idk,. it game is cancerous right now and it sucks to play in a world where everyone is out to ruin your experience.

honestly if there was even an offline server i wouldnt be upset.. the skelly ships and ghost ships are enough difficulty for me to be honest

@scaliebait2 So good karma for the people who fight and bad karma for the people who run?

@scaliebait2 giving any action against people for just playing is a bad idea. my first comment was full sarcasm

I like how people want to punish pirates in a pirate game for …….. pirating…?

Ok but seriously you people that expect friendly interactions need to understand a few of things. I will ALWAYS shoot first! I’m not against friendly interactions but until intent is known I will show you that I am quite capable of a fight. This doesn’t make me a bad guy, the next paragraph might.

Ok, but don’t think I won’t sink you. I leave tall talers alone and will help patch if we shot them full of holes. No treasure is usually not worth it. However, you guys need to under stand a G5 flag at reapers when I’m G5 is worth more than an athena. So ya we have a reason to take it. Now if you have a lot of lot and specifically an athena, chest of fortune, or ancient chest. Ya those are mine sorry bout your loss.

Does all of this mean people will have have a negative view of me? Ya probably, but why should I be negatively affected for being a good pirate? I vote a hard no on this.

@jj-h816 said in Karma system for captain ships and possible implementation.:

I like how people want to punish pirates in a pirate game for …….. pirating…?

Ok but seriously you people that expect friendly interactions need to understand a few of things. I will ALWAYS shoot first! I’m not against friendly interactions but until intent is known I will show you that I am quite capable of a fight. This doesn’t make me a bad guy, the next paragraph might.

Ok, but don’t think I won’t sink you. I leave tall talers alone and will help patch if we shot them full of holes. No treasure is usually not worth it. However, you guys need to under stand a G5 flag at reapers when I’m G5 is worth more than an athena. So ya we have a reason to take it. Now if you have a lot of lot and specifically an athena, chest of fortune, or ancient chest. Ya those are mine sorry bout your loss.

Does all of this mean people will have have a negative view of me? Ya probably, but why should I be negatively affected for being a good pirate? I vote a hard no on this.

I'm going to go a different tack here. I don't agree with the poster's thoughts, but....there MAY be some nuggets in the idea that can lead to fun gameplay.

First, let's start by saying, I think the below should ONLY follow Captained ships, not individual players.

Reputation: Not a Karma system, but some quick visible stats, either available at the tavern, or when a ship is spotted. These stats include things like: time spent in alliance, alliance ships sunk, ships sunk after alliance ended, ships sunk last x hours, ships sunk on this server, treasures given, etc. Simple stats that actually reflect the reputation a ship is earning. It's not negative or positive. It just shows how the ship plays. Lets players have information 'at a glance' to judge whether or not to trust a ship. Can it be "gamed"? Yes, but it has no in-game mechanical impact, it just shows your history. For simplicity's sake, let's make sure most stats have a reasonable window attached to them, (say 1 month), but keep somethings like kill count forever. Reputation and intimidation works both ways.

A bounty system. This idea intrigues me. A captained ship with a price on their head. You get extra money from turning their captains logbook into the tavern/athena's record guy. That actually isn't bad. I say let a bounty show up on the map, just like reaper's or Emissary's with grade 5 reapers. The question is then how and why to trigger it. I say separate it from the reputation system. Put in some voyages that give extra rewards, but put a beacon on your ship (like reaper chest) that stays on your ship as long as you have the key loot. Tie it to the emissary system and you have another reason to touch PVP.

@d3adst1ck said in Karma system for captain ships and possible implementation.:

@tybald said in Karma system for captain ships and possible implementation.:

Reputation: Not a Karma system, but some quick visible stats, either available at the tavern, or when a ship is spotted. These stats include things like: time spent in alliance, alliance ships sunk, ships sunk after alliance ended, ships sunk last x hours, ships sunk on this server, treasures given, etc. Simple stats that actually reflect the reputation a ship is earning. It's not negative or positive. It just shows how the ship plays. Lets players have information 'at a glance' to judge whether or not to trust a ship. Can it be "gamed"? Yes, but it has no in-game mechanical impact, it just shows your history. For simplicity's sake, let's make sure most stats have a reasonable window attached to them, (say 1 month), but keep somethings like kill count forever. Reputation and intimidation works both ways.

I don't think adding stats like these really benefit the game, they just introduce more metagaming. The information may not even be applicable in the current session, if say the ship had sunk a few other ships defending itself previously or if they were doing fishing today instead but their stat banner says they've sunk a lot of crews. They could have an entirely different crew other than the captain, so the information is meaningless but it will influence how others approach this ship now.

You are, of course, absolutely right. Of course, that's the issue with a reputation. It's earned from your past, not your present. People judge you by your past. Again, though, as I've said, I'd put a reasonable window on most stats (say 1 month), as well as including stats on your current session. (ships sunk last x hours, ships sunk on this server)

At the end of the day, your reputation follows you, and it's up to others to do with it as they see fit.

I know of players and ship names to avoid but I agree with above. Why should I be judged because I sink ships in a pirate game. I also enjoy helping newer players and sometimes I’m just out to interact but now that crew thinks I’m this terrible person

@jj-h816 said in Karma system for captain ships and possible implementation.:

I know of players and ship names to avoid but I agree with above. Why should I be judged because I sink ships in a pirate game. I also enjoy helping newer players and sometimes I’m just out to interact but now that crew thinks I’m this terrible person

:) Of course, there's a reason I suggested tying "Reputation" (i.e. some baseline stats) to a captained ship, as opposed to a person. For one, the stats just say what you've done, and does not judge you. That is left to other players. (This is also why session/'this server'/last x hours stats are in there, to perhaps show what you are currently doing in game.). Second, leaving a reputation is as easy as switching ships, either joining a crew, going captainless, or switching to another in your fleet. Once you reach 50 on a particular ship, you can buy another of the same type.

Also, sinking alot of ships in a pirate game ISN'T a bad thing. But, if you've sunk alot of ships this session, players that see you might decide to either fight or run instead of trying to ally with you. I mean, most ships aren't trying to form an alliance with Black Beard when the Queen Anne's Revenge shows up on screen.

@tybald no bro it’s just an easy early warning device that results in a six hour chase with many obscene messages received no thank you. Be on the look out homies and use your best judgment

@scheneighnay said in Karma system for captain ships and possible implementation.:

@jj-h816 said in Karma system for captain ships and possible implementation.:

@tybald no bro it’s just an easy early warning device that results in a six hour chase with many obscene messages received no thank you. Be on the look out homies and use your best judgment

So in other words it was because you were just ganking sloops after all and are the exact kind of player this is meant to counter.

Ok so yesterday my crew and I sank idk 8/9 ships. Most were during dives and some organically, but we also met a new player, 3 man slipped it and stole a FOTD and finished a FOF. Do you see what I’m getting at. The “reputation” system doesn’t account for exactly what happened and instead of getting to meet new people I now have to worry about everyone seeing my name and straight running.

If everybody you meet isn’t a suspected foe from the word go, I don’t think you understand the name of the game here. If I’m in an alliance I EXPECT to be crossed. It just a game sense that keeps you slightly ahead of the curve. I’m constantly watching the other crew/horizon should someone decide to do something. Like I said maybe I was attacked by everyone, but because I won I look like an aggressor because the book in the tavern shows I have sinks. It’s a halfway to the “I want PVE servers” it’s now “I want notifications when ships are mean to other ships, so I don’t have to worry about being surprise attacked by a ship because I now know their name and all the things they’ve done”.

A bounty system of sorts I could maybe get behind, but not a snitch book. It just makes the game more “oppppp some people on this server sink people, better hop to a different one” nah leave it as it is.

@jj-h816 said in Karma system for captain ships and possible implementation.:

@tybald no bro it’s just an easy early warning device that results in a six hour chase with many obscene messages received no thank you. Be on the look out homies and use your best judgment

Then don't chase them for six hours....find a different target. The same way we tell people who whine about getting sunk in this game to suck it up and use new strategies, do the same. If someone is running, and it's an un-fun chase....do something else. Nobody is forcing you to chase a ship for six hours.

@jj-h816
Your right, the reputation system doesn't account for what you are doing now. Of course, neither does "nothing." Right now the general default is "trust no one, because everyone is likely to kill you." My suggestion would open up more room for trust, more room for people wanting to roll up on a challenge, etc. It is the epitome of "tools not rules."

I am not behind a "karma" system. Why? At it's heart, it's judgmental. It suggests a right way and a wrong way to play the game. It says JJ is playing wrong and is bad. A simple stat tracker? It does none of that. It says JJ does X, make of that what you will. You may not like how other people react to X, but that is their call based on the simple stats provided. And, it's tied only to the captained ship, not JJ himself. So, you spent 8 hours sinking ships on your brig, and now want to be nice? Join someone else's brig, go to your galleon, or if you have it, go to your other brig.

This sort of thing worked well in Fable, a PvE game, but I feel in a PvP based game, this would erode the overall feeling of piracy and potential betrayal. The whole point of being able to still attack your alliance members is so you can betray them. It’s fun to do it, cause chaos, run away with their treasure. It’s all part of the stories and memories we look back on as part of the fun.

@d3adst1ck
Yes. Of course, that's the way with all reputation, the reputation that follows people often lacks the context.

But, let's cut to the heart of the issue. What is the actual negative impact to you? Someone sees you and decides to avoid you? That's likely already happened in vanilla. Someone decides not to trust an alliance with you? Also, likely already happening in vanilla. Someone sees you as a potential threat and decides to be preemptive and attack? Again, already happening.

I'll be honest, it seems that the biggest issue is the thought that someone might unfairly judge you in a hypothetical situation. That's happening already, it's just a bit more abstract because trust is a rare commodity in SoT.

@tesiccl

I am not behind a "karma" system. Why? At it's heart, it's judgmental. It suggests a right way and a wrong way to play the game. It says Tesiccl is playing wrong and is bad. A simple stat tracker? It does none of that. It says Tesiccl does X, make of that what you will. You may not like how other people react to X, but that is their call based on the simple stats provided. And, it's tied only to the captained ship, not Tesiccl himself. So, you spent 8 hours sinking ships on your brig, and now want to be nice? Join someone else's brig, go to your galleon, or if you have it, go to your other brig.

Simple stats tied to your ship flow well with a pirate game and fantasy. Think of all the times "The Black Pearl" is mentioned in the first PoTC movie. Same with the Queen Anne's Revenge. There were a few pirates that had specific reputations (Black Beard for example), but much goes with the ship. As this game has way too many ships in very small servers, it's near impossible to actually build such a reputation, so some simple stat tracking would stand in for that. There's still plenty of room for alliance, betrayal, and all sorts of piratey nonsense, because you are going to judge the stats and decide on what they mean. The game isn't going to make that judgement for you.