Broken Skill based Matchmaking

  • Ok but if a moan here.

    Day 1 player,
    Legendary sea dog that loved the arena,
    Long time Insider
    Pvp based player.
    And we’ll over 2000 hours ingame.

    BUT,

    I am really struggling with Jumping double gunners that have macros to help beat animation delays.

    People landing sniper shots while I’m mid air from firing over or sufficiently under the water swimming for a mermaid.

    People landing long range cannons consistently in the same spot of the ship.

    Consistently facing off against these type of player when they are clearly well and truly above the skill level of myself and my crew, despite my crew slaying in arena and open.

    I’ve been grinding hard for the curses but I can’t bring myself to fall frustrated at a game I adore so much. Somethings need to be addressed on this game mode quickly and I’m rather intrigued to hear opinions of others who’ve been enjoying / trying to enjoy the new much anticipated game mode.

    Rant over.

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  • @ashcon2000 Man, I share your feelings, moving forward but completely disappointed, although I, like you, have seen a lot in this game and in pvp, but I understand that for most casual players such matches are just instant uninstall or no go ever to new pvp mode again. These players should'nt at all face such experience until 80+ levels. Struggling is good in pvp games but should gradate and be base on skill or level and should not be just heavy beating for random player

  • I play on SA servers and there are almost no people in matchmaking, at certain times there is no one... if machthmaking is limited by skill it will get even worse.

  • @lleorb Simple fix, if there's no skill or level matched opponent then system gives you random player if you wait more than X period of time

  • @malyartv if there are 2 experienced players and a beginner, the game will put these two experienced to fight several times until the beginner waits for X time? and this wait will happen every time he goes to matchmaking?

    i'm playing right now and i've fought the same guy three times in a row, now he's probably out of the game and there's literally no one... that's the size of the problem with the lack of players, making matchmaking take longer for more equality I don't think it's viable under these conditions.

  • I’m horrible at pvp, level 6 in guardians of the flame and have lost all matches today but still being put up against people hitting first try deck shots, and have already completed the curses. It’s literally impossible for me to level up at any sufficient rate because I’m always put up against people who are pvp tryhards

  • Cross-stamp matchmaking when ? When people all have left ?

  • @jolly-ol-yep I feel that will only act as a bandaid and will only slow, not stop, the bleedout of players.

    People with the curses populate the mode across all the server groups and they are acting as gatekeepers for anyone trying to climb the ladder to get 100.

    Rare needs to shorten the skill gap between sweats and normal players. Or they can keep a situation where the time to kill is a single second and players just stop taking part.

  • @sally-kraken said in Broken Skill based Matchmaking:

    @jolly-ol-yep I feel that will only act as a bandaid and will only slow, not stop, the bleedout of players.

    People with the curses populate the mode across all the server groups and they are acting as gatekeepers for anyone trying to climb the ladder to get 100.

    Rare needs to shorten the skill gap between sweats and normal players. Or they can keep a situation where the time to kill is a single second and players just stop taking part.

    It was a steep uphill battle to begin with

    they were never going to get the kind of interest and activity that was needed for this to be anything other than a frustrating sweatfest

    Nothing in the history of this game or within the activity of the players even came close to suggesting this would get enough interest to boom.

    The positive part is there are more random people sailing around than season 7, not a high bar to reach but still a positive

    The negative part is they created a supply issue which they are trying to patch with dropping ship barrels and all that does is put more pressure on random ships which is counter productive to the content.

    The interest isn't there and it was never there, not to any degree that was needed in order to serve people other than content creators and the ultra extreme pvpers.

    People act as if the stamp thing is the issue and will be the solution, that's just the effect of the issue, the issue is activity and interest, stamp tinkering should help in theory but people are way overestimating how much it'll help imo.

    I don't think people (that aren't enjoying it) should take the stress anymore at this point in the season. Cosmetics aren't worth what some are dealing with in this content. I'd play other ways, catch up on commendations, chill with some fishing, go on some casual adventures, grind some gold. I would just chill and see what happens if I was any of the people struggling over 2 months into this content.

  • @wolfmanbush I totally agree with every single word you said.

    The interest of the hourglass slowly but steady faded, like many pieces of content the peak of interest may be the launch of said content unless they do something that can drastically improve. I was interested in getting the curses and probably get a bit better at PvP at first, but watching how minimal the xp gain is for a loser despite all the work and effort made my interest in this mode decay. I can understand that sometimes you have to do an activity you dislike in this game in order to get a reward you want, but this game mode no only makes it worse for those who don't like it but also discourages and demoralizes those who tried but didn't get a good result.

    As you said, it is a steep uphill battle, but it feels like instead of encouraging the losers to keep trying and help them climb to the summit, it is throwing rocks so they fall from the hill all the way to the bottom.

  • @dragotech123 said in Broken Skill based Matchmaking:

    @wolfmanbush I totally agree with every single word you said.

    The interest of the hourglass slowly but steady faded, like many pieces of content the peak of interest may be the launch of said content unless they do something that can drastically improve. I was interested in getting the curses and probably get a bit better at PvP at first, but watching how minimal the xp gain is for a loser despite all the work and effort made my interest in this mode decay. I can understand that sometimes you have to do an activity you dislike in this game in order to get a reward you want, but this game mode no only makes it worse for those who don't like it but also discourages and demoralizes those who tried but didn't get a good result.

    As you said, it is a steep uphill battle, but it feels like instead of encouraging the losers to keep trying and help them climb to the summit, it is throwing rocks so they fall from the hill all the way to the bottom.

    I think the only real formula for wide spread interest would have been to make the 2 curses casual friendly. Then add the add ons spread out over levels that eventually started to separate casual activity and more intense pvp activity and keep that going to a thousand, add ons being the extreme rewards and the base of the cosmetics being realistic for casual non-fighters

    Essentially a system that could be called base and badge

    most people can earn the base without getting run out of the content

    and the badge system (cosmetics that offer more variety/coolness to the base) for the skilled and more extreme play

    The reaper system almost did that but not quite.

    It seems like they kinda tried it but I don't think it was set up in a way that really creates a chain of activity much at all.

  • @wolfmanbush Kind of like getting gold curse? I mean I definitely agree with you, but something like this was to be expected, I honestly thought the PVP season 8 will be worse than it is ( I don't think its bad, but 105 levels of PVP to get season 1 participation reward is puzzling) Should have been something like 1-10Million Gold and maybe level 20 Athenas.
    Skelly curse/Ghost curse are cool, it's a shame a pve area is locked behind 100 pvp levels instead of faction levels since they are in the faction hideouts.

    And imo the levels to unlock things are fine, they should only add more items past level 100/200. The problem is the XP earned from battles. They need people playing it, but if you spend 20-30 minutes battling and you get a smidge for loosing, how are they expecting people who are not hardcore pvp players to do this until they get the new curses?

    My very first fight on a brig (or maybe 2nd) was against a crew with skeleton curses. Was a hard battle and we won. We were all level 0. So winning against people who had hundreds of battles under their belt and 100 levels above us gave us progression from level 0 to level 1. Imo we should have been pushed to around level 5-10 for such a feat.
    I defeat a guy who barely knows the mechanics properly of this game and I get the same amount of reputation.

    I mean they are very close to polishing this into a fun game mode, but at the moment this is fun for people who can become champions without problems.

    The progression to level 1000 shouldn't be quick, but this should be much faster now to at least level 80-120 and slow down past certain level after that.

  • @zig-zag-ltu said in Broken Skill based Matchmaking:

    @wolfmanbush Kind of like getting gold curse? I mean I definitely agree with you, but something like this was to be expected, I honestly thought the PVP season 8 will be worse than it is ( I don't think its bad, but 105 levels of PVP to get season 1 participation reward is puzzling) Should have been something like 1-10Million Gold and maybe level 20 Athenas.
    Skelly curse/Ghost curse are cool, it's a shame a pve area is locked behind 100 pvp levels instead of faction levels since they are in the faction hideouts.

    And imo the levels to unlock things are fine, they should only add more items past level 100/200. The problem is the XP earned from battles. They need people playing it, but if you spend 20-30 minutes battling and you get a smidge for loosing, how are they expecting people who are not hardcore pvp players to do this until they get the new curses?

    My very first fight on a brig (or maybe 2nd) was against a crew with skeleton curses. Was a hard battle and we won. We were all level 0. So winning against people who had hundreds of battles under their belt and 100 levels above us gave us progression from level 0 to level 1. Imo we should have been pushed to around level 5-10 for such a feat.
    I defeat a guy who barely knows the mechanics properly of this game and I get the same amount of reputation.

    I mean they are very close to polishing this into a fun game mode, but at the moment this is fun for people who can become champions without problems.

    The progression to level 1000 shouldn't be quick, but this should be much faster now to at least level 80-120 and slow down past certain level after that.

    They literally could set it up like a season pass just longer and grindier with that same regular reward system.

    more rewards and a more complex xp system that rewards activity within combat as well as wins, not just wins and participation xp

    incentive to play and incentive to fight to some degree

    I think they focused too much on penalty and not enough on incentive. They focused on trying to prevent cheesing which did nothing but create malicious camping for 2 months.

    A strong system that supports a chain of activity weeds out cheesing after a certain point on its own. Low end cheesing isn't as big of a deal as high end cheesing, and in this case it wasn't even cheesing, loss farmers went through what everyone else went through AND longer lol

  • To me it feels like they made the possible "skill" difference greater in exchange for faster matchmaking with the last update. It's really hard to get equally (un)skilled oponent. I get total sweat lords all the time (I have more than 7000 hours, but 95 % in PvE).

  • I think would be cool if someone would create some discord group for people who hang around here to get decent teammates for the pvp. I don't know about you guys, but 1v1 for me feels more like a chore than enjoyment when it comes to PVP. PVE on the other hand I believe shines solo, but you won't be able to do majority of the cool content basically.

  • The truth is that Adventure made people overestimate their ability, Arena too was populate mostly by averages.

    In other games, League of Legends for example, competitive players can go for a dedicated queue and climb the ladders, the more you climb the stronger the opponents. It's a slow journey where you learn everyday and get better because you keep fighting players about your same skill level, the opponents' skill level raise directly proportional to your skill. You improve because the level of challenge constantly raise and so you need to adapt if you don't want to get demoted.

    The lack of a ranked mode in SoT makes people think they're much stronger. The lack of a skill based matchmaking in Adventure and Arena means that a player that puts some effort in the game is being matched with casual players that just want to have fun and have no real interest in getting better. You basically win 70%+ of the fights just because 70% of your encounters are against people who are not trying as hard as you, truly tough fights against VERY GOOD crews in Adventure are VERY rare.
    I personally enjoyed the PvP aspect from the start, I'm not a good FPS player but I used to win most fights even of my first month of playing, me and my friend used to do Forts all night and win most of them on our first month.
    Playing against average players who are not decent in PvP most of the time and only rarely finding a very good crew just makes players who are just decent (and not GOOD) not feel the need to improve, they'll get mad when losing to a good crew, they'll have some tough fights, but being against bad players all the time just doesn't give a decent player the need to improve, winning that much also makes people more arrogant, decent players think they are much better just cause they win a lot, they don't realise they win simply because they were matched with bad players.

    Having a lot of hours in the game tells nothing about your skill, if you think otherwise I could try explaining to you why it's not but other than that I would see no point in talking with you as that would mean you don't understand how improving and learning works.
    Being a day 1 player tells nothing about skill, even less than hours played.
    Being a long time insider has nothing to do with skill nor PvP.
    Being a PvP based player tells nothing about your skill, just that you enjoy it. I've been a PvP focused player since my first week.
    Not even Legendary Sea Dog means anything, when I decided to get good at PvP I started playing it with a friend everyday, on the first week of playing we already started getting 10 games winstreaks, we got the commendation in less than a month by winning 95%+ games. In order to get Legendary Sea Dog and Triumphant Sea Dog you just had to be decent, not good, it just takes an amount of time that is indirectly proportional to your skill.
    Your gameplay is the only product of your skill and knowledge, you can't use random statistics like hours played or random achievements like "Legendary Sea Dog" as proof of your skill. While I understand why you would do that, I did it myself sometimes, we have no tools here to demonstrate our skill so we try to use stuff like hours played or Legendary Sea Dog, but at the end of the day the truth is these things means little to nothing.

    The truth is that the lack of skilled based matchmaking inebriated players like you, making you guys thing you are the top of the food chain just cause you win most fights without taking in consideration the skill of your opponents. Now that skill based matchmaking is here and you finally regularly play against people of your skill, or even better, you get frustrated cause you were not used to lose so much, you get frustrated because you are used to fight against people that are bad at PvP, that do not know how to react to the strategies you settled on instead of improving, you complain about your opponents cause venting is easier than accepting that being at the top of the food chain was just an illusion you inebriated yourself with.

    I don't mean this as an insult, I don't want to sound elitist. It's just a phenomenon that I've observed in SoT over the years and Season 8 proved it, it's also about a lesson I've learnt myself years ago. League of Legends is the first game I played competitively, the first time I got around Gold 1/Platinum 5 I started getting arrogant because I was better than most players, the first big lesson I learnt was that the Difference between me (a Platinum 5) and a Diamond player was even larger than that between me and a Bronze Player, I learnt that being in the top 30% =/= being good, I just accepted I was bad at the game, I was just putting in more effort than other players into learning the game and playing. As soon as you accept that you're actually bad an almost infinite room for improvement opens up before you, only then I unstucked myself from a skill plateau and was able to get to Diamond 1 in basically 2 Years (which was top 0.0x% at the time I got there).
    I think it's as important to getting better in the a game as it is for everyday life to realise about our arrogance and how it affects how we perceive ourselves.

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