DA Sails issue

@otherfanboy said in DA Sails issue:

@lormiun no your laziness is at fault not the sails, also what’s your secret to always having the wind I feel like it’s either always coming from the side or we going dead into the wind

What you call "laziness" I call efficency.
There were some that argued against Harpoones ... Guess you are lazy for wishing to comfortably Harpoon stuff onto your ship instead of the
Good-ol-gettin' it by Hand!

Give me a break with that.

And you wish to know my secret to "good wind"?
Well it's called math.

It's not too complicated, don't worry.

The angle at whitch the sight-advantage becomes truly obsolete is ~ 45° (and that is generous) to the left AND to the right.
so all in all the wind has a field of 90° which would negate that advantage ...

... ... ...

the entire possible field it CAN come from though is 360° ... logically.

So on average 75% of time the advantage WILL matter ... (and as mentioned ... that is generous ... personally I'd estimate 85%).

@otherfanboy said in DA Sails issue:

@lormiun no your laziness is at fault not the sails, also what’s your secret to always having the wind I feel like it’s either always coming from the side or we going dead into the wind

And to be quite honest, I take that one rather personal.

The ones that should be called "lazy" here are those that continously lie to themselves, ignoring this at this point VERY SERIOUS Issue by claiming that it doesn't exist.
And you know what really triggers me about it?

The fact that most of those that argued against it turned out to be Sloop-Mains that DON'T EVEN OWN THE DA-SAILS XD
That alone makes their denial 10x worse.
I can understand it though!
If they convince themselves that these sails don't provide an advantage then they don't have to use em, don't have to pay for em + can still use whatever they want completely with a clear conscious.
Ofc nobody truly forces anyone to use these Sails ... right?

WRONG! Not even that is truly true anymore.
When I recruit ppl on Discord for my Ship and I try to put another sail on (just to test) it is FAR from a rarity at this point in time that ppl say: "Should I equipp DA-Sails?" or
"You don't have DA-Sails" ?!?

And you know what?
They are right :D
That's what matters :P

@maximusarael020 said in DA Sails issue:

@lormiun So then I guess let all the QoL/Tryhards keep their DA sails because they've now chosen their "advantage" over having something cool. There's no "DA-Issue". People might fly them for any number of reasons. One: they are the most expensive sails in the game, so it's a "flex". Two: They are seen as the "PvP sails" because you have to have reached certain success to have them (Pirate Legend and a good amount of disposable income), so they are "intimidating" to the usual castaway-chest digging casual the crews that fly them usually like to stomp on. Three: A streamer once said that they grant an advantage and everyone bought into it, as seen by the comments in this thread and the fact that even if they don't convey an advantage or much of one on sloop they are still used a lot. This proves that it's more of a "learned behavior" than fact.

I have argued against this LONG before any Streamer did so -.-
And there isn't anything "learned" or "merely perceived" about it!
OPEN your EYES! LITERALLY XD
You are lying to yourself and potentially hurting the SoT while doing so!

Trust me, if Rare thought that there were too many people flying the DA sails and that the shape was preventing them from buying ship sets and cool sails from the Emporium, their greedy corporate overlords would force them to make changes to the sails in a heartbeat. The fact that they haven't kind of proves the issue is overblown.

THAT is actually a damn good point!
But let me let you in on a secret: Even big corporations make mistakes :P
Quite drasticall ones sometimes actually ...
You think Rare would have bothered with the Arena if they could have foreseen how it goes ?!

Also, their perception bias. If you see 20 ships, and say 5 of them have DA sails, but the rest of them all have different sails (Captain of the Damned sails, normal sailor sails, Gold Hoarder emissary sails, etc), because our brains are meant to see patterns you'll think "Oh, wow, almost everyone is using the same sail!" because you come across it often (for various reasons, as I've said), even though only 25% of the people you saw were using them.

If there are ~100 sails and of 20 Ships you see, 25% were using EXACTLY ONE of them ... then that IS vastly out of proportion. ... WTH XD
What you said PROVES my point XD

At any rate, there's no real problem here, besides the "Oh, my poor eyes cannot bear to look upon one more set of DA sails! The monotony!" of the OP. If people want to fly those sails for any number of reasons, fine. If they want to use other cool sails, that's good too. They were made the most expensive sails in the game for a reason: to show off.

... ... ... ... ...
DO YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE THAT CUT-OUT IS THERE BY CHANCE XD ?!?!?!?!?!
Read their description!
Rare knew EXACTLY what they were doing when releasing these sails!
The only thing I fail to understand is why no action followed thus far ...
Which brings us back to the issue at hand.

@otherfanboy said in DA Sails issue:

@lormiun first off the laziness wasn’t meant as an insult sorry if came off that way trust I’m pretty lazy when I set sail but I also have a crew I run with and avoid discord servers cuz to many people claim that the meta is the only way to play and are boring people who miss the point of the game which is a drunken adventure with friends

I would never even DREAM of arguing against this on its own.

If we distill it to the bottom-line.
All that is being advocated for here is for a more colorful SoT.
Literally XD

@maximusarael020 said in DA Sails issue:

@lormiun said in DA Sails issue:

If there are ~100 sails and of 20 Ships you see, 25% were using EXACTLY ONE of them ... then that IS vastly out of proportion. ... WTH XD
What you said PROVES my point XD

I think it's a little unreasonable for you to think that people wouldn't want to show off/flex with the most "intimidating" and expensive sail in the game. It's not out of proportion because there's a reason it was so expensive: to show off as a flex. "Look at all the gold I've amassed! A 8.5 million gold sail means nothing to me! Also, I PvP, so watch out, silly fishing crew! I'm coming for you!" You think every sail will have equal proportions of people using them? You think if there are 100 sails the same number of people are going to be using the Sovereign Sails as any other set? In general players will gravitate toward a cosmetic that is "known" for something, so they can be part of that community, too. Same reason "so many" people use the Reaper's Pajamas set (it's probably not as many as you think, it's that perception bias again). Because it marks them as a Reaper! The PvP faction! Be afraid! In general you are more likely to see people flying similar sails anyway. And with DA sails being seen as a flex, giving a perceived advantage, and it being known as the intimidating "PvP" sails, many people would fly them even without the V-shape. Think how many times people complain about "double-gunning, DA-sails using sweats". That rhetoric creates people to start to fall into line with that kind of thinking. When you are a newer player and are told that the "sweats" use the DA-sails, that's what you will strive for. "I want to be a sweat! I want to be feared! I just need to earn enough to get the DA sails!" And then once you get them, it is a sunken cost fallacy. You worked so hard to get them because you wanted to be feared, then you can't bear to use any other sails because you spent so much on these, you committed to the idea that they give you an advantage like that one streamer said. You're bought in to the brainwashing.

So it won't really matter what happens, v-cut or not. DA sails will be seen as the "sweaty, double-gunning, PvP lord" sails until something else comes along that gives another perceived advantage.

Ok ... you know what ... SURE!
Even though you are blatantly wrong with your reasoning here let's just accept it for a moment.

... That still means that a crapload of ppl are ONLY using those which still leaves us with a problem:
Why is there ONLY one set of such prestigious sails? It's bland and boring.
And what would you do to fix this?!
"until something else comes along that gives another perceived advantage" has taken over 2 years at this point -.-
Even though some new VERY prestigious new sails were released.

You can call it "perceived" as long as you want.
That is a lie.
Because I can ASSURE YOU one thing about human mentality.
'Looking good' / 'A Status Symbol' alone will not make you compromise on actual power in combat.
Never in History has that ever been so. (And those men that did usually got their behinds handed to them by those that didn't)
That is not different here in SoT.
PPL use these sails BECAUSE of the V-Cut ... That's just ... ... ... It is almost weird that some ppl like you actually deny this.
And those that use them are not stupid or indoctrinated by some streamer XD
This is not some far fetched science.

It lets you see better than ANY other sail so ppl use it.

That's ALL there is too it XD

@otherfanboy said in DA Sails issue:

@lormiun exactly so if players join your crew and cry about not have DA sails on ignore them and run what looks good and colorful if they leave they leave find the crew thats there for a good time

I would lie would I say that at this point even I want to pass on the luxury of the DA-Sails.
It has gotten so bad that I actually don't play as much SoT as I used to anymore.
It is really frustrating that this rich customization system has this huge critical stain within it ...

PS: It is really not that easy to find decent m8ts on discord.
It is actually a sign of experience and skill if someone asks for DA-Sails :/

PSS: The simplest and cheapest fix for the DA-Issue would be to simply redesign them without the V-Cut ... I am not in favor of that.
A Sail-Shape-Editor (or something similar) would be MUCH BETTER!
But I just want to say, there ARE countless solutions for this Issue which would undoubtedly improve SoT. Why stand against them XDDD

Ufff ... I really wished that Rare would at least make a statement about this.

@maximusarael020 said in DA Sails issue:

@lormiun said in DA Sails issue:

That still means that a crapload of ppl are ONLY using those which still leaves us with a problem:
Why is there ONLY one set of such prestigious sails? It's bland and boring.
And what would you do to fix this?!

There is no problem. That's the whole point. It's not a problem. Even if every sail became the exact same with zero cut-outs, zero tears, all just the basic sailor sails with different colors and art, there will ALWAYS be something that draws disproportional amounts of people to use the same sails/other cosmetics. Whether it is based on playstyle (i.e., "I want to look intimidating and fierce!") or because a popular member of the community uses it. You're never going to see everyone using a different sail.

So there's no problem. If you feel like you personally can't use a different sail because of the perceived advantage, that's very much a "You" problem. Many other players and streamers do just fine in combat without the use of the "training-wheel" sails we'll call them because of how much easier things are while using them apparently. If your problem is truly "Oh, my eyes, everyone uses the same sails!" then that's always going to be an issue no matter what. Because of all the reasons I stated earlier.

Oh pls. The only "You" problem here is the delusion of what you are trying to convince yourself of.
SURE there will always be SOMETHING that is used a bit more than something else.

But are you actually trying to put the DA-Sails into the same category XD
You can't be serious.
There is a MONUMENTAL difference between simply using something because of style/status AND
ACTUAL FACTUAL IMPROVEMENTS XD

And guess what ...
The DA-Sails do NOT ONLY have style/status ...

@otherfanboy said in DA Sails issue:

@lormiun they could be looking into it but there are far more important things to fix or change and it’s on a back burner because it’s a single set of sails

... For 2 years we/I have accepted this ...
... ... ... 2 years is a long time :P

And as mentioned this is not a static issue :(
It gets worse with every new skin released and subsequently denied.
It gets worse with every new Pirate Legend that unlocks them and will not leave them unused ...

It was always a serious issue in my book, but now it actually became unignorable.

@otherfanboy said in DA Sails issue:

@lormiun yea but there are way bigger problem such as hit reg blunder bombs server stability and other things that they have fixed or in the middle of fixing sure it’s been what some people call a problem but there’s bigger issues than one sail

You cannot simply call it "one sail" ... it may just be one sail.
But think about it, the sail is THE most pronounced part of the ship.
If it only was the helm that would be much less severe but ... it's the sails.
If you want your ship to look good, you have to design your entire ship around them :/
Subsequently, you have to design your entire character around it XD
SUBSEQUENTLY:
... SoT's customization is limited to shadowy-edgelord-cosmetics ...
... That ... is ... ... ... a VERY VERY SERIOUS problem in a product like SoT where ...
the entire progression revolves around customization. XD

Never would I claim that it is a game-breaker, but it is with nay a doubt ... poison.

@maximusarael020 said in DA Sails issue:

@lormiun said in DA Sails issue:

SURE there will always be SOMETHING that is used a bit more than something else.

So the "problem" will inevitably persist. By your admission. So.....who cares?

You are actively trying to misunderstand me, aren't you ... If you had just included a BIT more of what I said there your response would already fall flat.

The DA-Sails do NOT ONLY have style/status ...

Ah, but you do admit they do have style and status. Also meta (as the "PvP" sails). So a disproportionate amount of crews might still use these sails based on that alone.

Yes, but so do the Ghost Sails, The Ancient-Sails, ANY Emmissary/Event-Sail ... and a LOOOT more :P
There is VARIETY there XD
Yet when it comes to the V-Cut ... there are ONLY the DA-Sails!

So in reality, there's no solution to the problem of "the seas are full of the same sails!" because you admit that is likely to be true anyway. As for the problem of YOU wanting to be able to use other sails but you don't want to give up your perceived advantage... how much is it worth to you to have that in a silly, cartoon pirate game with no matchmaking in Adventure and no real matchmaking in the new PvP mode (I know the devs have said there is but it's either not working correctly or there aren't enough people in the ques because people keep matching with the same people they have lost to 5 times in a row or seeing people who already have a much higher level than them)? If you've decided it's worth it to stifle your creativity then again, that is a YOU problem.

This actually makes me sad.
You see, ESPECIALLY when I recruit newer m8ts on my Galleon IT IS IMPORTANT to me that I actually succeed in them having a good time and actually getting to sell our loot after hours and hours of voyaging.
SURE, if we sink to some Ulta-Lords that's one thing, but even then I at least want to put up a GOOD-FIGHT!
Not make them feel like we got totally stomped.
And DA-Sails MOST CERTAINLY are not exactly something I wish to pass on in such a scenario, ESPECIALLY with newer m8ts under my wing where I as a helmsman/captain have to make almost all of the important decisions on my own.

And all of that aside there for a second -.-

"So in reality, there's no solution to the problem of "the seas are full of the same sails!" because you admit that is likely to be true anyway."
...
What kind of utter nonsense it that.
There are A LOT of solutions!
The BEST one would be a Sail-Shape-Editor -.- (Ideally in combination with Harpoon and Lantern Customization)
But you could also just release more Sails with a similar Cut.
Or, (if you are lazy) simply redesign the DA-Sails, with or without some kind of re-fund.
And I COULD GO ON XD

Especially the Sail-Shape-Editor would improve on the SoT VASTLY!
It surely is not a small feature but absolutely something worth it in the light of Rare!

@otherfanboy said in DA Sails issue:

@lormiun so customize the ship how you want it I have 3 named ships all with different sails sloop: Lord Guardian, Brig: Vanguard and galleon:the wild sails

Sure, I will XD
I just want the customization to be free of such blatant meta once again :)
With a Sail-Shape-Editor, that would be easy to achieve.

@maximusarael020 said in DA Sails issue:

@lormiun I mean, at this point you are so sunk into defending your faulty conclusion that you won't even listen to yourself.

Yeah ... ... ... really hard to defend this "faulty conclusion" when all you need to do to get your proof is to literally open your eyes.
You know, when a certain someone invented his Spy-Glass/Telescope the church framed it as devils-work and refused to look inside it ... just as a side note.

You agreed that there will always be sails that are more often used than others, based on status, playstyle, whatever.

And then you compare the Ghost Sails to the DA sails? WHAT?! The Ghost Sails don't have anything like the renown as the DA sails. The DA sails are the most expensive, so they are a flex. They are "intimidating" because that is what the "sweaty PvP players use". No other sails have that, and none will.

Unlike the Ghost Sails, you can get the DA-Sails simply by paying for them, granted the Ghost Sails are not as hard to get.
But just because something is "most expensive" does not mean it is the hardest to get = greatest flex XD

And why the hell do you think they are what "sweaty PvP players use" ... why the hell do you think that is the case?
Ah yes ofc, because they are all stupid sheep that got indoctrinated by ppl like me into falsely "believing" that the DA-Sails provide an advantage ...
Yeah ... that should probably be your reasoning XD
Most of us made it out of the Dark Ages you know ;)

You can add the V-cut to every other sail and the majority of the players using the DA sails currently will still use them because they want people to know they are "dangerous".

I bet you 100million gold that this is 100% BS.
Be guaranteed that the WEEK a Sail-Shape-Editor or something similar is to be released, the DA-Sail usage will drop to ~10% of what it is.
What it SHOULD be!

So how does your solution help? It doesn't. Based on what you said, there will always be sails that people popularize. There will always be the sails that the "good PvPers" use. You even admitted that. And if you can't admit that, then you should try to do as many population studies as I have.

A. If there was a Sail-Shape-Editor it would be 100% irrelevant what Sail you use even as the greatest PvP-Sweat in Existence. So that solution would 100% solve this -.-
B. I will not deny that I don't give a damn how many "population studies" you've done. What I do give a damn about is SoT.

@otherfanboy said in DA Sails issue:

@lormiun it’s easy to achieve now if you wanna run DA then run DA if not the run something else

... I don't want to always run DA.
But it provides a too hard to ignore advantage so I do.
That situation should change.
Simple as.

@otherfanboy said in DA Sails issue:

@lormiun so run something else easy done and done

Ofc, what sail has an equally revealing cut like the DA-Sails again?
I struggle to think of one ;)

@otherfanboy said in DA Sails issue:

@lormiun kraken sails

Not even close ...
Play SoT :P

@maximusarael020 said in DA Sails issue:

@lormiun said in DA Sails issue:

A. If there was a Sail-Shape-Editor it would be 100% irrelevant what Sail you use even as the greatest PvP-Sweat in Existence. So that solution would 100% solve this -.-

It already is. 🤣🤣 You're either good or you're not.

XD Yeah keep telling that to yourself.
Greet the ocean floor for me next time you meet a DA-Crew 😘

@otherfanboy said in DA Sails issue:

@lormiun so say you I say it’s good enough

Sure, only that ... there is proof for my "say" XD
And no amount of trolling can change that XD²
... sadly.

Face reality ... There is a DA-Sails Meta ... that should change for the benefit of SoT :/