Feedback on season 8 changes and PvP

@fretfulelk45403 said in Feedback on season 8 changes and PvP:

@wolfmanbush
What you're saying has no exact basis and everything is abstract. Season 8 completely excludes PvE, so new users who have given up PvP have no choice but to do the poor season 7 or the previous one. Is there any way to achieve something with PVE in season 8 when referring to options? No, there is no such thing. As you say, this big update, season 8, which takes three months, is just a "extremely" part of the game and is mocking PvE users by saying they can't if they don't want to. I don't understand why you want to play selfishly. Does it serve as a means to prove to you that you are competent? Just in the game? I think that's a bit of a misery. The truth is that in a month only a few users will achieve this and the PvP system will not work. Because without a new user, whatever MMR is, it's going to be an old user-only game, and you're going to end up in the same situation as Arena. This is unfounded and we've seen all PvP games go down the drain as the bottom user disappears. This has 100% solid evidence and examples.

A new player has literally years worth of content and commendations/cosmetics without even looking at season 8

It took me a couple of years to do everything and I played more than a lot of people and I am quite efficient in my approach to the game.

Efficiency and consistency are how things get done, no reason to do it all at once. A fight a day, a couple fights a day, a fight day out of the week, doesn't much matter. Just stay consistent and things get done over time.

@fretfulelk45403 said in Feedback on season 8 changes and PvP:

@wolfmanbush
What you are saying now is that PvE preferred users among new users do not have to enjoy Season 8. I think it's normal for new users to be curious about the new season for the game to work properly? So you are saying that new users should stay in the previous season even after watching the trailer of Season 8? That is very wrong. And what you're saying at the end is that new users continue to flow in and the gameplay of Season 8 will remain normal unconditionally. It is illogical to think that gameplay will remain normal in rejecting new users. That is why I am debating, referring to the previous Arena system. This is evidence in both the outcome and the process. What happened to the arena? As a result, it is broken. Why do you think it's ruined? Because there are no new users. Why is there no new user? This is because only hard users gathered and eventually became a stagnant well. No one is going to do the arena. Furthermore, PvP is a user vs user. The number of people is important. I insist on my opinion to keep it. I'm not trying to get cosmatic in two days to be comfortable For my friends to be with PvP in the low hurdles and feel accomplished

What's not to enjoy? Just because a season or a piece of content doesn't interest a preferred play style doesn't mean there isn't something to enjoy in the season.

None of us love everything in the game, we all like this or that and don't like that or this.

I've played 13k+ hours and I still enjoy kraken and meg hunting and sinking skelly ships lol

Pvers have lots to do if they love pve, whether they are new or have been around a long time.

People have milestones and logbooks now which makes pve way more interesting and substantive.

@fretfulelk45403 said in Feedback on season 8 changes and PvP:

@wolfmanbush
You keep avoiding my answer. Answer what can be achieved with PvE in Season 8. What can't you get with PvE in season 8? You can't get it all. The new faction is designed to raise the level with PvP only. And if you've played 13,000 hours, it's natural that you don't feel the problem. Because you are a hard user who has played too much time, you cannot represent a new user who gives up the game.

I'm level 4 and 5

It's gonna take me just as long as many others that will take a long time to unlock the cosmetics

Skill based match making will be worked out soon, it'll likely take me longer as a solo where my matchmaking will put me than it will for newer players.

My fights on average will be very long and I am likely to take many L's

@fretfulelk45403 said in Feedback on season 8 changes and PvP:

I'm not discussing how long it's going to take for you or me or the users here. Most of them are hard users and are not new users. We're going to end up at level 100 no matter how long it takes, and I'm saying after that. Do you think season 9 will start and the game play of season 8 will continue? If you've been rejecting new users from the beginning and the most important content is designed in this way from the beginning, you won't be able to achieve up to 1000 levels. The PvP system is that population is absolutely critical and it is wrong to reduce the population from scratch in a long-term action designed up to 1000 levels. If SoT admits that this design is wrong when it becomes Season 9, and belatedly corrects it, we will lose all of our efforts to change 4 hours for 2 months. At that time, new users will not return, and new users will come in depending on the success of Season 9. Rare should know that it is more important to maintain that. The second PvP system is also a problem. It's clear that this system is conscious of overcoming the problems of the previous arena, and if the system collapses like this, it's never going to be able to overcome the dry population again. Nobody would expect it in the first place, and investors would be unhappy.

It's really got nothing to do with arena. It's based on trying to create healthier pvp in adventure.

More consenting pvp, more opt in pvp, taking heat off of pve to some degree, offering competition to those that want it

It's going to succeed in design because it's not a true risk, anyone that made it this far that quits was likely going to quit no matter what from burn out, new players that quit over it were never going to stay.

This isn't push out content that leads people to leave in droves. Season 8 will be more active than season 7 and that is a win and helpful going forward.

I would like to see a little extra Xp given to losing ships.
The only reason I say this, is to continue encouragement for everyone to play this mode.
Would hate to see matchmaking totally drop off because those not as skilled find it just to impossible to slowly level up.

@needsmokes said in Feedback on season 8 changes and PvP:

I would like to see a little extra Xp given to losing ships.
The only reason I say this, is to continue encouragement for everyone to play this mode.
Would hate to see matchmaking totally drop off because those not as skilled find it just to impossible to slowly level up.

I totally agree with you on this, currently it is punishing to play this and lose, specially if a match takes a long time, it is very discouraging to give it a try or keep up.

@needsmokes said in Feedback on season 8 changes and PvP:

I would like to see a little extra Xp given to losing ships.
The only reason I say this, is to continue encouragement for everyone to play this mode.
Would hate to see matchmaking totally drop off because those not as skilled find it just to impossible to slowly level up.

I think this is fair.

It does appear to be on the low end for a competitive fight.

@d3adst1ck said in Feedback on season 8 changes and PvP:

@mewds-d-jolly said in Feedback on season 8 changes and PvP:

*Second point on levelling allegiance is a slug fest, if I sink from a player that is way higher than me in skill/mmr I get the same amount of allegiance xp as I sink from a new player ( same goes for me sinking a low skilled player vs a high skilled player, both wins give me the same amount of allegiance xp) which is also very bad, why because matches with high skilled players take A LOT of time (yes it can take up to an hour or two just fighting 1 ship, and this happens frequently btw)

I don't know if we can accurately judge the skill based ranking yet, since it just started and even the best of the best players are going to have the same low ranking as everyone else until they get enough matches under their belt to determine their proper ranking. I agree that if you lose to a higher ranked player you should get more rep than losing to a lower ranked player, but we don't know the rankings of anyone and this early in the season you could be fighting a very skilled player who isn't ranked because they haven't played much yet.

*Third point on levelling allegiance is a slug fest, as I have mentioned before, some battles can take up to 1-2 hours long sometimes not because you're facing a highly skilled player, but because you are facing a running reaper style combatant, so they would just keep on running away and trying to stall till you quit, this is quite boring and very frustrating, I honestly don't know what to suggest here, either make the area circle smaller to begin with, or make it get smaller with time (until it reaches a point), because right now battles can get very frustrating (and its also not rewarding at all to fight such long battles, please guys respect our time)

I think they do need to have a time limit or a shrinking area of engagement or something to prevent battles from lasting forever until you both run out of supplies. I don't think that's very enjoyable, and it would suck to have a huge streak going and then get dragged into a never ending sailing match.

While I agree with you on both points, but I wanted to note out that playing long matches rewards you with the same amount of allegiance xp as short matches (meaning that if you win a 2 hrs match, you will gain the same xp as you get when you win a 10 mins match, same thing with losing, if you lose in a 2hrs match, you will gain the same amount of xp as if you have lost a match in 10 mins), I honestly think they should put the match time into account here, the longer the match takes, the more rewarding it is for both players, rather than punishing the player that is fighting tooth and nail to get the better of his opponent, all that I am asking is that Rare would respect its player's time, rather than cater for the content creators and the selfish sweatlords only.

@d3adst1ck said in Feedback on season 8 changes and PvP:

@mewds-d-jolly said in Feedback on season 8 changes and PvP:

I honestly think they should put the match time into account here, the longer the match takes, the more rewarding it is for both players, rather than punishing the player that is fighting tooth and nail to get the better of his opponent, all that I am asking is that Rare would respect its player's time, rather than cater for the content creators and the selfish sweatlords only.

That's a bit exploitable though, and would really incentivize players to drag out matches much longer than they should be in order to maximize reputation gain which is kind of the opposite of what should be encouraged.

I agree with you on this, but I honestly believe that Rare could find a solution for it, like for example, you could put a streak multiplier on just playing pvp matches (not winning matches, obviously if you win you would gain a lot more xp than if you lose) the more matches you play the more xp you would get, so that players are encouraged to finish off their matches asap to gain more xp.

@wagstr said in Feedback on season 8 changes and PvP:

@fretfulelk45403

Only the plunderpass leaves at the end of the season, my son ground to level 50 SD and got the Good Boy shipset (we sailed her last night). I didn't grind it through choice and so I don't have that rare shipset and will never have it but I take my hat off to all that do and don't bemoan it.

Each season is catering in the main to a different audience but there is always something for everybody. Next one might be more PvE orientated. The new hideout areas will remain even if it takes you 2 years to get there. If you want access to them you have the choice to get it eventually along with the rest of us.

Your arguments makes no sense, and I think they will also lead to a bad state for the pvp pool/community let me tell you why, on the announcement of the shutdown of Arena mode, rare has stated that it was populated by only 2% of the player base, so I think its kind of safe to assume that all the competitive content creators + DA sweatlords that love that the current progression is grindy are no more than 2%, although I honestly think that they are way lower but lets assume that the lot of you are just 2% of the whole player base.

You say that each season is catering to different audiences, which is ok, but right now your argueing that its ok for season 8 to just cater for 2% of the WHOLE player base on behalf of the rest which comprises of 98% of the rest of the players?

so season 8's content would be only accessible in an acceptable manner for just 2% of the players? so that only 2% of the players will checkout that new content that season 8 has to offer? so that only 2% of the players would lord it over 98% of the players? I am very sorry man, but this is extremely selfish and self-centred, I honestly don't get it, why does it hurt you guys so much when the rest of the players have access with you to the same content, why does it hurt you when we can have fun as well, get into the new hideouts and be ghosts or skeletons as much as we like? I am truly baffled by the selfishness and closed mindedness of some of the people I just bumped into in this thread.

What I am asking for, is to increase the pvp player base of the total player base of the game, from the current selfish sweatlordy 2% to more, and to do that you have to make the content its self worth the player's time rather than make them feel like they will have to sacrifice their real life just to achieve something in a game that they should be having fun with.

encourage more players to join in, now that is healthy for pvp in the game, rather than push them away because the sweaty players want all the rewards for themselves only.

and for your knowledge, I have played this game for 1.2k hrs, and it has been one of my favourite games of all time, and I enjoy every aspect of it, whether it is pvp or pve, I have also been playing some in the arena back in the days, but I am not a hyper competitive sweatlord, I have average skills I guess, I don't know if you would consider a player with such a play time as mine a casual, but I am saying that the current state of pvp progression is only helping less than 2% of the players and hurting those whom are interested in joining in, you are basically alienating 98% of the players just to please 2%.

@fretfulelk45403 said in Feedback on season 8 changes and PvP:

I don't mind if all the seasons are PvP friendly from now on. However, I am saying that you should not reject PvE but identify with it. This has always been the case. No matter what voyage or world event we had, there was room for attack However, new content from Season 8 completely eliminates PvE. It is self-righteous and has a high hurdles and rejects new users. Reaper 75 level at 100 level, legendary pirate conditions are very vicious and disappointing to the users who came in after watching the trailer of Season 8. This will become a snowball and hit the most important population pool in PvP. So did Arena, and it became a temple only for the extreme hard users, and it was destroyed. Rare is basically a profit-seeking company. It comes from a new user. If you force a season to reject this way because you pay your employees with that money and develop games, SoT will not last long.

The unsustainable approach to the game is no risk/high reward. Letting those that produce get wiped out at high rates by a wide skill gap that is cheesing the organic environment.

This doesn't worsen that this helps repair that.

New players that skip this season will try again or for a first time the next update that includes some new fancy pve.

The pvers that stay in season 8 will have more consistently positive experiences than they have in many seasons.

QoL will be improved for those that stay.

There will still be negative feedback sometimes and people will still post that they are bored or they want this or that, but the players that have stuck around or have returned will have less pressure on their play style, this improves qol.

@fretfulelk45403 said in Feedback on season 8 changes and PvP:

@wolfmanbush
Who says lowering obstacles is a risk-free and unsustainable approach? SoT says one million pirate legends have been born so far. Prior to that, where I thought it was the right level of difficulty for the season, it was only a pirate legend of 4 percent of all users. At this level, 96 percent quit, so where did the word risk-free reward come from? I'm not saying I want to completely remove this obstacle, I want to lower it. And you still didn't answer my question.

A large majority of the retention issues are things the devs realistically can do little about.

The game is time consuming and it's difficult for people to keep a crew.

People have different schedules and interest and crews fall apart. Then it's difficult for people to find new crews if they don't want to go through the process of trying over and over again with new people.

This game will always have retention issues so we all just gotta do the best we can on that.

When it comes to things the devs can do they did one of the two helpful options. The first would have been to balance risk reward a long time ago and cut down on the cheesing that is built into features, if people cheese it's whatever, there shouldn't be features that enable the cheesing and have it built in. They didn't do great on this and they let it go on a long time

this leads us to option 2 which is to start kinda-sorta separating people through incentives. Keep some of the pvpers (many of the high skill ones) focused on consenting pvp while the pvers have more wiggle room to pve without so much interference.

The vibe around the game is more positive right now, some of that tension between styles is being lessened. The season is largely performing pretty well. People are having fun in pvp for a change, pvers can get out there and take less heat for a change.

I'm hearing more excitement from people rather than just the typical criticisms.

That doesn't mean it's bringing in piles of people or that everyone will stick around but that improvement in positivity will prove to be a valuable resource.

@goldsmen said in Feedback on season 8 changes and PvP:

@thorumsu It seems that many people have become so used to new content being almost immediately accessible for years. When they add something that is intended to be a challenge to earn there are a number of people that want it now, and dont realize that a trophy is less special the less effort it takes to get.

Its only been 3 days, if everyone could get into the new hideouts in a day or 2 and unlock the curses, then that would make it unimpressive to have. If every pirate was a ghost or skeleton right now it wouldnt be as rewarding to unlock.

obviously you're here to post your slick smart comment and scram without even reading the thread properly, I will help you out by reposting here my calculations, we are not asking to get access to the new content in 2 days or right now, what we're asking for is that it is TOO LONG to just get to the place to see where the content is at, and here is my calculations. (it is posted previously in the thread, you can look it up)

@captain-coel I don't mean to rush it, I will illustrate my point in a different way, with numbers this time, at first I thought you would need to sink around 100 ships to get to level 100 allegiance because you got 1 level per sink at the beginning 10 levels I recall, however right now I am 17 and I am getting half the level from a sink because allegiance xp requirements increase per level, this means that you might need to sink somewhere between 500-300 ships maybe to get to just level 100 just to get access to the hideouts where to just be able to check how much more grind you have to do to get your rewards from there (obviously you would need much more sinks to get from 100 to 200 for example to unlock whatever rewards are there, so on and so forth)

and as I have mentioned, some fights take way too long, depends on if you're facing a sweat lord with DA sails on, or a running reaper kinda opponent, 1-2 hrs per fight, lets be optimistic and say 1 hour, an average to time to get into battle and sink a ship might be between 10-30 mins, lets say 20 mins for simplicity, and on average I get a sweatlord or a running reaper ever 3-4 battles, so that is somewhere between 2 hrs of play time, just to get 3-4 sinks (assuming you win them all), I will be optimistic and say that I sink the sweatlord (which currently doesn't happen because I keep getting matches vs way stronger players) so that would be 4 sinks every 2 hrs, which equates to 2 sinks per hour, divide 500-300 sinks needed by 2, you would find that you would need to put in around 250-150 hours to just get access to any one of the hideouts, lets say an average working guy like me finds time to put in 4 hours a day dedicated only to playing pvp in SoT, I would need somewhere between 63 to 38 days (divide 250-150 by 4hrs a day) just to get access to one of the hideouts. (and I would have to win each match)

Plainly put, playing for 2 months straight nonstop just to get access to something (that is not even the cosmetics inside) is way too long.