I think this will be less common for Reapers that are out flag hunting, simply because of how quickly you can supply up now. It’s much faster to just server hop normally. The only exception is if we have like 50 chain shots or cursed canon balls or something.
Check the horizon frequently and check the map every time you leave or return to your boat.
@d3adst1ck Personally, I think that Reapers should have to earn grade 5 on that specific server that they intend to reek havoc in.
@unfadingshimmy said in Portal Hopping Reapers.:
@d3adst1ck Personally, I think that Reapers should have to earn grade 5 on that specific server that they intend to reek havoc in.
The Reaper/Emissary map stuff should be changed then. The problem with how it works now is that as the Reaper gains levels, the other emissaries have probably noticed that they are there and are likely heading to outposts and logging out because they know that there is no clever hiding behind a rock or anything once they hit 5. It's just automatic detection from anywhere on the map. Less emissaries exist and fewer start up while a reaper is active. This makes the Reaper less effective the longer they exist.
Silent reaper, using the portals, harpooning but not picking up loot, etc... are all symptoms of the map visibility problem. It would be more effective to just get rid of the map meta and allow Reapers to fly the flag as they wish without scaring off all the emissaries.
@d3adst1ck You are probably right.
The Reaper's Mark should be the only thing that displays yourself on the map for PVP purposes.
Unfortunately, it is probably too late to make a big change like that.
@scarecelery7151 said in Portal Hopping Reapers.:
I don't understand why this is something that is being allowed. Where is the balance in this?
The balance comes from players being able to log into a server, see a Reaper (of any grade), and hop servers to find a "safer" one with no Reapers on it.
What purpose does allowing reapers to abuse the portals serve??
It allows players that play Reaper and hunt other Emissaries to counter the above mentioned hopping for a safer server.
All the people that complain about Reapers portal hopping are the same ones that will hop servers as many times as they want to in order to find a Reaper-less server to grind their Ledger rewards on.
The portal hopping brings balance to the server hopping players that avoid Reapers altogether.
I've proposed a solution to this whole problem before and am happy to share in here if you're interested.
@sweetsandman said in Portal Hopping Reapers.:
@scarecelery7151 said in Portal Hopping Reapers.:
I don't understand why this is something that is being allowed. Where is the balance in this?
The balance comes from players being able to log into a server, see a Reaper (of any grade), and hop servers to find a "safer" one with no Reapers on it.
What purpose does allowing reapers to abuse the portals serve??
It allows players that play Reaper and hunt other Emissaries to counter the above mentioned hopping for a safer server.
All the people that complain about Reapers portal hopping are the same ones that will hop servers as many times as they want to in order to find a Reaper-less server to grind their Ledger rewards on.
The portal hopping brings balance to the server hopping players that avoid Reapers altogether.
I've proposed a solution to this whole problem before and am happy to share in here if you're interested.
This logic is really flawed.
The benefits of hopping aren't the same between the the two at all.
In the case you cite the players looking to play without a reaper on the server still have to do the full grind to grade five on every server they move to in order to start without a reaper.
The reapers however, can do the grind to five, and then never have to do it again?
The question that nobody can answer is how is it right to allow reapers to deny other players the INTENDED run up to 5 that any new reaper to a server should have to do, just as the players you mistakenly made comparison to have to when they start doing what they're out to do?
@unfadingshimmy said in Portal Hopping Reapers.:
Would a solution to portal hopping be to lose your emissary flag upon entering the portal?
You already lose loot when portal hopping, right?
I think so.
Anything else lets reapers deny their targets the INTENDED time that new reapers are supposed to be spending getting to 5
@scarecelery7151 said in Portal Hopping Reapers.:
@sweetsandman said in Portal Hopping Reapers.:
@scarecelery7151 said in Portal Hopping Reapers.:
I don't understand why this is something that is being allowed. Where is the balance in this?
The balance comes from players being able to log into a server, see a Reaper (of any grade), and hop servers to find a "safer" one with no Reapers on it.
What purpose does allowing reapers to abuse the portals serve??
It allows players that play Reaper and hunt other Emissaries to counter the above mentioned hopping for a safer server.
All the people that complain about Reapers portal hopping are the same ones that will hop servers as many times as they want to in order to find a Reaper-less server to grind their Ledger rewards on.
The portal hopping brings balance to the server hopping players that avoid Reapers altogether.
I've proposed a solution to this whole problem before and am happy to share in here if you're interested.
This logic is really flawed.
The benefits of hopping aren't the same between the the two at all.In the case you cite the players looking to play without a reaper on the server still have to do the full grind to grade five on every server they move to in order to start without a reaper.
The reapers however, can do the grind to five, and then never have to do it again?
The question that nobody can answer is how is it right to allow reapers to deny other players the INTENDED run up to 5 that any new reaper to a server should have to do, just as the players you mistakenly made comparison to have to when they start doing what they're out to do?
I should clarify, I totally agree that Emissaried portal hopping is completely broken and ruins the risk/reward balance of the game.
You can call my logic flawed, but those same Emissaries that you claim have to hop servers and do their 1-5 grind all over again can also portal hop and avoid the run-up.
My "flawed logic" takes into consideration that the "knowledge" of a server than can be had without ever leaving the dock is terrible for the organic play on any server. It recognizes that the risk/reward intentions of the Emissary system and Reapers is broken at its core.
While I definitely want to see Emissaried portal hopping be eliminated, I believe it's a necessary component of the risk/reward system until (if) they decide to correct the whole thing at its core.
Being able to see the presence of Reapers on a server before ever setting sail (and anytime during your sail) eliminates the "risk" part of the Emissary system.
@sweetsandman no it does not. It just means someone can start without being at a disadvantage. Grade five and getting loot to use the bonus on takes plenty of time for reapers to make grade, not that they need it to go hunt emissary ships anyway.
@sweetsandman said in Portal Hopping Reapers.:
@scarecelery7151 said in Portal Hopping Reapers.:
@sweetsandman said in Portal Hopping Reapers.:
@scarecelery7151 said in Portal Hopping Reapers.:
I don't understand why this is something that is being allowed. Where is the balance in this?
The balance comes from players being able to log into a server, see a Reaper (of any grade), and hop servers to find a "safer" one with no Reapers on it.
What purpose does allowing reapers to abuse the portals serve??
It allows players that play Reaper and hunt other Emissaries to counter the above mentioned hopping for a safer server.
All the people that complain about Reapers portal hopping are the same ones that will hop servers as many times as they want to in order to find a Reaper-less server to grind their Ledger rewards on.
The portal hopping brings balance to the server hopping players that avoid Reapers altogether.
I've proposed a solution to this whole problem before and am happy to share in here if you're interested.
This logic is really flawed.
The benefits of hopping aren't the same between the the two at all.In the case you cite the players looking to play without a reaper on the server still have to do the full grind to grade five on every server they move to in order to start without a reaper.
The reapers however, can do the grind to five, and then never have to do it again?
The question that nobody can answer is how is it right to allow reapers to deny other players the INTENDED run up to 5 that any new reaper to a server should have to do, just as the players you mistakenly made comparison to have to when they start doing what they're out to do?
I should clarify, I totally agree that Emissaried portal hopping is completely broken and ruins the risk/reward balance of the game.
You can call my logic flawed, but those same Emissaries that you claim have to hop servers and do their 1-5 grind all over again can also portal hop and avoid the run-up.
My "flawed logic" takes into consideration that the "knowledge" of a server than can be had without ever leaving the dock is terrible for the organic play on any server. It recognizes that the risk/reward intentions of the Emissary system and Reapers is broken at its core.
While I definitely want to see Emissaried portal hopping be eliminated, I believe it's a necessary component of the risk/reward system until (if) they decide to correct the whole thing at its core.
Being able to see the presence of Reapers on a server before ever setting sail (and anytime during your sail) eliminates the "risk" part of the Emissary system.
The one-way relationship between reapers and other emissaries eliminates both the risk for reapers and the reward for other emissaries.
You get absolutely nothing for killing a reaper except a flag and 5 minutes tops of breathing time before they bum rush you again.
There is zero incentive for players to put up with reapers.
The only win condition here is to never fight them to begin with.
The suggestion to counter portal hopping with portal hopping is to dilute the game into a Scooby Doo door chase scene where nobody has time for voyages because they're too busy hopping and staring at the map.
@scheneighnay said in Portal Hopping Reapers.:
@sweetsandman said in Portal Hopping Reapers.:
@scarecelery7151 said in Portal Hopping Reapers.:
@sweetsandman said in Portal Hopping Reapers.:
@scarecelery7151 said in Portal Hopping Reapers.:
I don't understand why this is something that is being allowed. Where is the balance in this?
The balance comes from players being able to log into a server, see a Reaper (of any grade), and hop servers to find a "safer" one with no Reapers on it.
What purpose does allowing reapers to abuse the portals serve??
It allows players that play Reaper and hunt other Emissaries to counter the above mentioned hopping for a safer server.
All the people that complain about Reapers portal hopping are the same ones that will hop servers as many times as they want to in order to find a Reaper-less server to grind their Ledger rewards on.
The portal hopping brings balance to the server hopping players that avoid Reapers altogether.
I've proposed a solution to this whole problem before and am happy to share in here if you're interested.
This logic is really flawed.
The benefits of hopping aren't the same between the the two at all.In the case you cite the players looking to play without a reaper on the server still have to do the full grind to grade five on every server they move to in order to start without a reaper.
The reapers however, can do the grind to five, and then never have to do it again?
The question that nobody can answer is how is it right to allow reapers to deny other players the INTENDED run up to 5 that any new reaper to a server should have to do, just as the players you mistakenly made comparison to have to when they start doing what they're out to do?
I should clarify, I totally agree that Emissaried portal hopping is completely broken and ruins the risk/reward balance of the game.
You can call my logic flawed, but those same Emissaries that you claim have to hop servers and do their 1-5 grind all over again can also portal hop and avoid the run-up.
My "flawed logic" takes into consideration that the "knowledge" of a server than can be had without ever leaving the dock is terrible for the organic play on any server. It recognizes that the risk/reward intentions of the Emissary system and Reapers is broken at its core.
While I definitely want to see Emissaried portal hopping be eliminated, I believe it's a necessary component of the risk/reward system until (if) they decide to correct the whole thing at its core.
Being able to see the presence of Reapers on a server before ever setting sail (and anytime during your sail) eliminates the "risk" part of the Emissary system.
The one-way relationship between reapers and other emissaries eliminates both the risk for reapers and the reward for other emissaries.
You get absolutely nothing for killing a reaper except a flag and 5 minutes tops of breathing time before they bum rush you again.
There is zero incentive for players to put up with reapers.The only win condition here is to never fight them to begin with.
The suggestion to counter portal hopping with portal hopping is to dilute the game into a Scooby Doo door chase scene where nobody has time for voyages because they're too busy hopping and staring at the map.
Pretty much this exactly. The idea that after making grade 5 emissaries benefit as much as reapers do in retaining their grade 5 as they blindly jump to another server is just false.
It's certainly no benefit to them if they land on another server with a grade 5 reaper on it.
And that's not even getting into the idea that most players probably don't have 20 hours a day to put into sot to make retaining emissary a real benefit to non reaper average players.
It really all boils down to why even have a required amount of sailing for reapers to do before seeing other ships on the map if you're gonna let players skip that time for advantage?
@scheneighnay
@ScareCelery7151
Maybe I'm not communicating my point clearly enough. Hopping servers - whether it's at the sight of a Grade 1 Reaper, at the sight of a Grade 5 Reaper, or AS a Grade 5 Reaper - are all bad for the Emissary system's risk/reward intentions.
If my crew and I want to run Reaper, but all the Emissaries leave and no other Emissaries ever enter the server because they're all scared, we're left to do PvE and/or hunt Emissary-less ships which tend to be newer players, tall taler's, and generally people that don't want to take part in the enhanced risk/reward system of Emissaries. Cool, right? No. It's a poor design.
Here's my idea. I've suggested it before so I'll just copy/paste it with a slight alteration...
-1) Get rid of all the little ships on the Emissary tables at the outposts. If you want to run an Emissary, do it. Your decision should not be based on knowledge of the server that can be obtained before leaving the dock. Your decision should be based on your understanding of the risk/reward elements of the Emissary system.
-2) Crews can only see a Reaper on their map if they are running an Emissary of any kind and are Grade 3 or higher. The logic here is that crews would be invested enough in a server that they'd at least consider continuing with their risk even if they end up seeing a Reaper on their map after they've hit Grade 3. Sure, some people would still immediately sell, lower, and abandon the server, but those are the folks that aren't going to fight anyways. At least with this, their rewards/time would be impacted accordingly.
-3) Grade 5 Reapers can only see ships on their map that are Grade 3 or higher. The logic here is to complement the above rule so that you don't have a tactical advantage on low grade emissaries.
-4) Reapers can only see other Reapers once they've achieved Grade 2 or higher.
-5) Allow broken Reaper's Bones flags to be sold to the other factions for 2x gold (no rep). It's actually silly that this isn't already in the game, but this would certainly help to make it not such an eye-roll when a G5 Gold Hoarder sees that G1 Reaper headed their way knowing that they have no loot and a flag worth ~1200 gold and an inconvenient trip to Reaper's Hideout to sell it (I'm more apt to leave them floating in the water).
-6) Eliminate Emissaried portal hopping.
All of these things together would make the risk/reward system of Emissaries on every server way more organic and high stakes.
@sweetsandman
Oh I especially like changing the emissary levels needed for visibility.
I sort of forgot to bring it up that it's inherently imbalanced how other emissaries, mostly with the exception of merchants, need to loiter on an island to even attempt to make money while reapers only need to look at the map to catch up to them.
Giving emissaries time to actually progress before a reaper goes after them makes a huge difference.
@the-capn2790 said in Portal Hopping Reapers.:
@fretfulfiber809
That is not the point at all. The simple fact is that a PvE server would be a vastly superior way of making gold to a PvPvE server and therefore almost anyone seriously trying to make gold would use them, wether they like PvP or not.
Which is exactly the reason why PvE servers with gold enabled will never exist. If you want to endlessly grind PvE there are other games for that. This one is about being a pirate with the option of stealing from other player pirates. Without the risk of PvP SoT is nothing but a pirate themed VR Chat in a big fancy sandbox.
Excellent post, you missed an actual suggestion or cure to the problem though lol?
Also maybe Reapers should lose Emmissary grades when a server merge happens. They should also have to pay a fee to see Emmisary ships and it shouldn't be a permanent thing.
Also for balance, Reapers shouldn't be visible on the map to others, maybe like 10s in every 60s so that you can't see direction changes.
I made a suggestion, check it out and give some feedback!
@zaheenio said in Portal Hopping Reapers.:
Excellent post, you missed an actual suggestion or cure to the problem though lol?
Also maybe Reapers should lose Emmissary grades when a server merge happens. They should also have to pay a fee to see Emmisary ships and it shouldn't be a permanent thing.
Also for balance, Reapers shouldn't be visible on the map to others, maybe like 10s in every 60s so that you can't see direction changes.
I made a suggestion, check it out and give some feedback!
I mean, I figured the solution was fairly easy for anyone to see. Make emissary flags drop for all ships when using tall tale portals.
to address your salty "suggestions" nobody is saying anything should happen to ship status when servers are forced to merge.
How would making reapers not visible be a balance to them also robbing other players of the intended time they are supposed to be spending getting to grade 5? That doesn't make a lot of sense.
@sweetsandman I hear ya loud and clear. I just don't think that they all have the same impact.
Also your notion that nobody should ever set sail without info they can get dockside is flawed because its always been possible via world events. Just yesterday I had a newly spawned reaper come after my athena from the veil voyage because they could see from the docks the storm was going... They failed, but they set off to get us with info they could have before sailing too...
I think its fine to let players who want to sail without reapers start where are there are none if we're gonna let everyone else server hop for world events.
@king-beelee said in Portal Hopping Reapers.:
What advantage do Reaper 5's have coming through a portal hop?
None
You can see them, they can see you.
If you don't want to be chased by reapers, don't raise emissary.
The element of surprise by catching others off-guard by suddenly appearing on the map instead of being watched as they organically level up from start if they didn't portal hop. Also may appear in close proximity to an occupied outpost where someone is cashing out and not watching the map at that moment. Both are pretty big advantages that you claim do not exist. Also they keep their full supplies which they would not if they just server hopped as well as their leveled Emissary flag, another advantage over the previous method before Portals were a thing.
If they weren't advantages, players wouldn't Portal Hop.
@king-beelee said in Portal Hopping Reapers.:
What advantage do Reaper 5's have coming through a portal hop?
None
You can see them, they can see you.
If you don't want to be chased by reapers, don't raise emissary.
This is wrong.
They get to refresh their list of targets or reset their server environment, call it whatever you want without giving up the flag. This means they rob every player on the server they land on the intended time they are meant to be attaining grade 5 on the server. Clearly the time to get grade five before being able to see every em ship on the map is intended, so why allow players to shortcut that?
@dlchief58 said in Portal Hopping Reapers.:
@king-beelee said in Portal Hopping Reapers.:
What advantage do Reaper 5's have coming through a portal hop?
None
You can see them, they can see you.
If you don't want to be chased by reapers, don't raise emissary.The element of surprise by catching others off-guard by suddenly appearing on the map instead of being watched as they organically level up from start if they didn't portal hop. Also may appear in close proximity to an occupied outpost where someone is cashing out and not watching the map at that moment. Both are pretty big advantages that you claim do not exist. Also they keep their full supplies which they would not if they just server hopped as well as their leveled Emissary flag, another advantage over the previous method before Portals were a thing.
If they weren't advantages, players wouldn't Portal Hop.
Good point, the spawns are close to turn in points and not restricted by ships at them...
@scarecelery7151 surely its just another part of the meta to get used to though? really don't think its that much of a problem. Just a way for reapers to keep their session flowing. One server is virtually empty as theres nothing happening. Why should the reaper have to bin all their supplies, their emissary grade, and any other weapons they've picked up, just because there isnt enough content to support the part of the game they want to play? Whereas a crew setting out to grind some PVE can just keep snowballing as long as they want?
I'm done. Throwing down my cutlas. Since season 7 came out ill been trying to get som game time but i have given up curse im not even to grade 3 in a emissarie or playing a half to a hole hour before a server hopping reaper comes rageing thru the server. . I'm done. give us the opportunity to se the reaper progress it gives atleast a small warning before the can se every one on the server.
Any ship can hop servers. Doing a PVE run and see a reaper 5 pop up out of nowhere? Go sell your loot, or whatever you have time, and hop away from the grade 5, just as they hopped to you. Even if you have to drop some loot at the portal, you'll keep your emissary and supps. Two can play that game!
By the way I don't advocate running, but for devils advocate...
@unleet1 said in Portal Hopping Reapers.:
Any ship can hop servers. Doing a PVE run and see a reaper 5 pop up out of nowhere? Go sell your loot, or whatever you have time, and hop away from the grade 5, just as they hopped to you. Even if you have to drop some loot at the portal, you'll keep your emissary and supps. Two can play that game! [...]
So breaking off whatever they're doing, possibly only selling part of the loot and losing their voyages is the same to you as a Reaper who just sold everything at the Hideout and in case they're level 5 get to keep the primary benefit of seeing emissaries ?
@unleet1 said in Portal Hopping Reapers.:
@lem0n-curry Not at all, didn't say it was at the same cost.
So you are admitting it is an unfair advantage then. Thanks for the confirmation.
@dlchief58 Unfair as far as equal cost to each party, yes, the reaper has a slight advantage with hopping.
Unfair as in unreasonable? No.
@unleet1 said in Portal Hopping Reapers.:
@dlchief58 Unfair as far as equal cost to each party, yes, the reaper has a slight advantage with hopping.
Unfair as in unreasonable? No.
Slight advantage?
There's next to no benefit in doing it if you aren't a reaper, and massive benefit if you are.
They should make it so you drop your emissary flag when zoning into a portal. Easy fix. No reason to have an emissary up when doing a pirate's life tall tales either, so it wouldn't negatively impact that either.
If loot doesn't transfer with you, why would your flag transfer with you when it's specifically designed to directly effect your loot. Not to mention your flag is technically a "loot" item.
@salerio said in Portal Hopping Reapers.:
They should make it so you drop your emissary flag when zoning into a portal. Easy fix. No reason to have an emissary up when doing a pirate's life tall tales either, so it wouldn't negatively impact that either.
I think there are reasons to use the portals to switch servers without having to restart your ship, like looking for a specific world event. The only reason there are complaints about using the portals is because of the broken emissary abilities which Rare seems to be highly reluctant to take another look at (along with a host of other broken things).
