Why are some people so desperate to PvP...

Nope, the sloop stopped at nothing to chase me. In the end I reached my destination, steered my ship to pass the island, shot myself out with a cannon to the island and left my ship to sail away on its own. The Reaper still sank my empty ship with absolutely nothing of value on it, not even an emissary flag. I picked up my ship from nearby and completed the Tall Tale.

Yup. It players that sink without reason that bother me.
If PvP people want a true PvP, make sure the other Ship is willing to fight. Otherwise your just shooting a dead deer. No challenge and no pvp. If a ship doesnt fight back, stop and move on. No challenge. But majority of PvP players will take whatever ship and sink regardless, Only to come to the forums and complain about the lack of PvP.

Its there. You just have to wait and idk...encourage those to fight.

• Start a Fort
• Collect Loot. If you dont wanna sell it, give other ships a reason to bother pvp you. If you win, add there plunder to yours and find new target. (Just dont scuttle or leave your ship to only board)
• Reapers Mark.
• Become the Hunted, not the hunter.

The short answer to “why?” is “because they can.” In some cases, there’s really not much more of an answer than that. Slightly longer, unlike RL there’s no real consequence to unrestrained aggression on the Sea, so people can pretty much do what they wanna , and all kinds of people wanna do all kinds of things. Some of it I can’t understand at all (and is technically ban-worthy) (insulting/racist/homophonic speech, general griefing), but if it pushes someone’s button, they’re gonna do it to someone else, and that’s the flip side of Freedom.

Your story’s a lot better than the old “there I was, minding my own business, waving my Grade 5 and stacking forts, when some try hard sweats came along and ruined all my hours of hard work…” 😁 Not much lost, just an illustrative story of human nature in a pseudo-anonymous fantasy world.

@burnbacon said in Why are some people so desperate to PvP...:

Yup. It players that sink without reason that bother me.
If PvP people want a true PvP, make sure the other Ship is willing to fight. Otherwise your just shooting a dead deer. No challenge and no pvp. If a ship doesnt fight back, stop and move on. No challenge. But majority of PvP players will take whatever ship and sink regardless, Only to come to the forums and complain about the lack of PvP.

Agreed. So many complain about the lackluster PvP in the game, and then relay stories of chasing down solo-sloopers on Tall Tales or people who clearly don't want to PvP. They are deluding themselves in that regard. If they truly wanted quality PvP they would let those who clearly cannot put up a fight or don't want to alone. Instead they complain that the game "forces" them to sink newb pirates because "No Arena". Pathetic.

@tothlewis said in Why are some people so desperate to PvP...:

@tothlewis

As mentioned, they really have no way of knowing if your ship is empty or not until they see it themselves. Also, there are several technical possibilities that would keep them from hearing your messages of peace and empty-handedness. So without being able to ask them about it, we can never know for sure.

Beyond that, I'm afraid that a lot of it is simply ingrained philosophy from the video game landscape. It's a preconceived notion in video games that dying equals losing and killing equals winning. It's just the default assumption that many take for granted almost subconsciously.

In Sea of Thieves, this is not the case. Killing another pirate doesn't inherently get you anything while dying can sometimes be to your advantage. But deeply ingrained assumptions can be hard to shake. So even after they've caught your ship and seen that it was indeed empty, many will still sink it just because it's a video game and "that's what you DO".

PvE players are just as susceptible to this as PvP players. It took me most of the beta to start getting past it and even now I have to remind myself sometimes.

My best advice is to just remember that ship sinks are meaningless in and of themselves, so it's nothing for you to worry about either. Try to find the humor in it and keep on truckin'.

Honestly if I'm doing anything else other than Tall Tales, I always gear up for a fight and expect ships to try and engage me. I often sail with 1 or 2 friends, either duo sloop or brig.

So why dont you do the same thing when doing tall tales, since you're well aware that doing a tall tale doesnt guarantee safety?

@maximusarael020 said:

Instead they complain that the game "forces" them to sink newb pirates because "No Arena". Pathetic.

The person being complained about in this scenario could have been a newb pirate themselves.

Best advice for anyone who is new, and/or not too great at PvP, but wants to get better at it: attack any and everyone.

I restrict myself. I have standards & I choose to leave certain types of crews alone if I'm not going to gain much from attacking them, be it loot or experience. But I've also been here for years.

Newer players need to get their reps in somehow. And now, "because no Arena," getting those reps in can be difficult.

Of course they can throw up a reapers emi and spend their session slashing skellies and one tapping ghosts. But having done a good deal of reaper stacking, I know how ineffective this can be at attracting PvP. It also seems counterproductive, if you want to practice PvP, to spend time PvEing.

The other options are to either hop for reapers, which can also consume time, or throw up a reaper flag & attack anything they see, while hoping to get attacked as well.

I'm not ruling out the chance that this player was specifically targeting tall talers just to be toxic. Just offering another possibility that might seem less "pathetic."

@theblackbellamy said in Why are some people so desperate to PvP...:

The person being complained about in this scenario could have been a newb pirate themselves.

I was specifically referencing the people who specifically state that they feel "forced" to attack everyone, including newb solo's on Tall Tales, because "that's the only way I can find PvP because there's no Arena!" Those are the pathetic ones, justifying their behavior that way. You don't actually need to justify any of the behavior. It's fine to have bloodlust and attack every ship and sight. The game offers that as an option and if that is your penchant, as long as you are not griefing, then it's totally fine. My problem is with those deluding themselves of their intentions.

However, what you said does remind me of something my martial arts instructor once said: "Practice does not make perfect. Good practice makes perfect." Just like throwing haphazard, untamed, non-directed punches at a board will not make you better at breaking boards, throwing yourself at those who choose to not PvP, who don't offer up a fight, as you just sink their ship, offering no real resistance or strategy will NOT make you better at PvP. It's absolutely ok to start a combat, see that they have no treasure when you board, see that they aren't offering any resistance, and then pull off, heading toward a more worthy target. What many of those seeking "quality" PvP exhibit is an addiction. They need their "fix", and they are willing to do whatever to get it. Sinking a helpless first-day pirate with no loot doesn't give them their full fix, but it can knock the edge off until they find the good stuff, that sweaty Day-1 double-gunning crew to finally meet their addictive needs.

We should have a flag that is always raised on a player's boat if they are the crew host, that is only available for a couple dozen hours that signifies it is a new player and to leave them be to learn the ropes of the game, so they would get sucked into it enough to start appreciating it. Not everyone can have the same mindset, some struggle with emotional issues and are just trying to distract themselves from the real world with video games.

I'd had the exact idea awhile back, some sort of a "noob flag" that was raised automatically (but could be manually lowered if desired) to mark newer/less experienced crews. I'd make it based on the average (total faction levels/hours of gameplay/ship sinks?) of everyone on the crew to avoid cheesing; hadn't thought through whether it ought to just be a marker (which some would ignore or even prey upon) or actually convey some sort of protection.

Best advice for anyone who is new, and/or not too great at PvP, but wants to get better at it: attack any and everyone.

I would amend this to "attack any and everyone but show some mercy"; don't be part of the "PvP Problem" (if you perceive it as such), you're not going to learn much from sinking an empty ship or spawncamping people that only have a couple hours in the game.

I am not too great at PvP; we went to practice yesterday, found a Reaper on the map, and broke off the fight when he voice-chatted that he was just teaching his little brother how to play. Everyone has their preferred playstyle, mine is to not rain on the parade of anyone that just wants a little time in the sun...

@maximusarael020 said:

However, what you said does remind me of something my martial arts instructor once said: "Practice does not make perfect. Good practice makes perfect." Just like throwing haphazard, untamed, non-directed punches at a board will not make you better at breaking boards, throwing yourself at those who choose to not PvP, who don't offer up a fight, as you just sink their ship, offering no real resistance or strategy will NOT make you better at PvP... What many of those seeking "quality" PvP exhibit is an addiction. They need their "fix", and they are willing to do whatever to get it. Sinking a helpless first-day pirate with no loot doesn't give them their full fix, but it can knock the edge off until they find the good stuff...

Lol.

I mean I'm someone who seeks quality PvP and, like I said, I have my standards. I see value in letting certain types of crews go, so that I don't stunt their growth, and hopefully see them in the future as worthy opponents. And I don't think I'm some special, outlier case either.

When you started martial arts, were you asked to break wood boards immediately? Or did they first have you attempt it with the plastic ones that snap down the center? With varying colors, designating various strengths of the board?

Did they throw pads on you and immediately ask you to spar? Or did you have to practice your forms, techniques, and various situational exercises?

For someone like me to get good PvP practice, I need sweaty fights. For a new player, simply practicing hitting cannons at a moving target, or out-sailing them in a chase can also be valuable.

I agree that good practice is better than just any practice. But the reality is, those opportunities for practice are few and far between. For a new player trying to get any practice in, it may mean playing the hand that the server has dealt, and attacking whatever they can.

@theblackbellamy said in Why are some people so desperate to PvP...:

For a new player trying to get any practice in, it may mean playing the hand that the server has dealt, and attacking whatever they can.

Lol.

When it's not a challenge, then it's no longer practice. When you are a black belt you no longer punch balsa because "it's the only wood I could find". That's not practice, it's just self-pleasure. If they aren't fighting back, it's not practice, even "cannon angles".

Lol.

@maximusarael020 said:

When it's not a challenge, then it's no longer practice. When you are a black belt you no longer punch balsa because "it's the only wood I could find". That's not practice, it's just self-pleasure. If they aren't fighting back, it's not practice, even "cannon angles".

Ah, I must have missed the part where the player in question was a black belt of the seas :P

What's challenging to me might be easy for NAL players. What is easy for me might be a challenge for players with less experience. OP left the ship in a chase. Out-sailing an unmanned ship could have very well been a challenge to that player, even though it isn't to us. Hitting moving ships can be a challenge to some, even if they aren't receiving return fire.

Anyway, I didn't pop in to advocate for black belts to waste their time breaking boards, or for experienced pirates to bully new ones. Just wanted to offer my perspective; as when new players ask how to get better at PvP, my answer to them is to PvP any/everyone. If you'd rather think that the player was pathetic and suffers from addiction issues, all the power to you.

@maximusarael020 said in Why are some people so desperate to PvP...:

@theblackbellamy said in Why are some people so desperate to PvP...:

For a new player trying to get any practice in, it may mean playing the hand that the server has dealt, and attacking whatever they can.

Lol.

When it's not a challenge, then it's no longer practice. When you are a black belt you no longer punch balsa because "it's the only wood I could find". That's not practice, it's just self-pleasure. If they aren't fighting back, it's not practice, even "cannon angles".

Lol.

He said For a new player, black belts aren't handed out when you set foot on the mat

@theblackbellamy No, you missed the part where it became a discussion about more than just this one instance and became about general player behavior. It's ok, you'll catch on. You also seem to miss where I specifically say it's pathetic when people justify bullying because "it's all that's available" (that was the analogy of a black-belt practicing with balsa).

When you decide to address what I'm actually saying instead of whatever you feel fits your narrative, then you can feel free to try again.

@lem0n-curry
Yes but it remains the truth, good practice makes you get better. Engaging with those who aren't offering a challenge immediately let's you know that it's not good practice. You'd be better off against a skelly sloop than an unmanned ship sailing into the red sea. There's nothing real to learn from it that you couldn't learn better somewhere else. This idea that any PvP is practice or good for even new players is wrong. If you constantly sink unmanned ships or those who don't fight back, you get into bad habits because you don't learn the reality of PvP. You ingrain poor behavior that is harder to unlearn when you face a real challenge than it would be if you simply let unchallenging or unwilling prey go and seek out tougher fights. It's very hard to unlearn bad habits you learned from bad practice. Why do you think so many people spam firebombs when they are vastly inferior to blunderbombs against good crews? Because they learned that behavior firebombing open-crew 2-person galleons and think they know how to take on challenging foes. Bad practice is worse than no practice.

@maximusarael020 said:

No, you missed the part where it became a discussion about more than just this one instance and became about general player behavior... You also seem to miss where I specifically say it's pathetic when people justify bullying because "it's all that's available"... When you decide to address what I'm actually saying instead of whatever you feel fits your narrative, then you can feel free to try again.

maximusarael020 said:

burnbacon said:

...It players that sink without reason that bother me... If PvP people want a true PvP, make sure the other Ship is willing to fight. Otherwise your just shooting a dead deer. No challenge and no pvp. If a ship doesnt fight back, stop and move on. No challenge. But majority of PvP players will take whatever ship and sink regardless, Only to come to the forums and complain about the lack of PvP.

Agreed. So many complain about the lackluster PvP in the game, and then relay stories of chasing down solo-sloopers on Tall Tales or people who clearly don't want to PvP. They are deluding themselves in that regard. If they truly wanted quality PvP they would let those who clearly cannot put up a fight or don't want to alone. Instead they complain that the game "forces" them to sink newb pirates because "No Arena". Pathetic.

No, I don't think I missed anything.

You agreed with a comment that said it was bothersome when players sink others without reason, when it isn't a challenge, and that a "majority of PvP players" behave this way. You added later that people who justify attacking everyone ("including newb solo's on Tall Tales"), or feel forced to, are pathetic and "deluding themselves of their intentions". And then felt it appropriate to say that "many of those seeking quality PvP exhibit" an addictive personality. What didn't I catch?

Did you miss when I tied the discussion back to OP's story in my first response, and offered an alternative explanation to the player's behavior?

The person being complained about in this scenario could have been a newb pirate themselves... Newer players need to get their reps in somehow. And now, "because no Arena," getting those reps in can be difficult... I'm not ruling out the chance that this player was specifically targeting tall talers just to be toxic. Just offering another possibility that might seem less "pathetic."

I "seek quality PvP", which is why I'm selective about who I attack. But not everyone needs to be. For some folks, simply shaking off the nerves of approaching another ship is a challenge to overcome. Just because something isn't challenging to you, burnbacon, or me, doesn't mean it isn't challenging to newer players. Which is why I do feel that newer players should attack whoever they can. In absence of a space like Arena to practice in, it genuinely is "all that's available" to them. They need to start somewhere lol. Wolf explained it much better in his response to me.

You seem hung up on pointing out how you feel that people who punch down are pathetic. And it's fine if you feel that way. My thought was that maybe the player OP ran into wasn't punching down, or some addict (haha); just taking on a challenge they felt was at their level.

@kapp16354 Even when Arena was on, we had all the right to PvP in Adventure.

What people need to understand when they login in to a server is that PvP is always ON by default. PvP is not consensual, you don't need to agree to it. If someone wants to fight you and you don't want, your only option is to run away. There's nothing wrong with running away, as there's nothing wrong with a ship chasing you, and it still applies if the chase lasts for hours. Both parties are actors on the chase and none is to blame.

Even if you don't have an emissary flag, there's no way for the other ship to know that you don't have any loot, even if you tell them (they don't need to believe you). Only if they board you and they see that you don't have anything. Still, they have the right to fight you and try to sink you. They might just want to steal your supplies, practice or simply have fun PvPing. You need to accept these reasons, weather you agree with them or not.

The only thing that shouldn't happen is toxicity, even just trash talking. We should all be polite and respectful to each other. It's a game, a PvP-enabled game, a pirate game and any attack is not "personal". PvPers get a lot of fame for being toxic and for sure I know that some are but, as a PvPer myself, I can tell you that probably the majority of the times I meet toxic people are PvErs running away from me and annoyed with me chasing them. If someone crosses the line in toxicity, report them. I start recording as soon I realize I'm going to have an encounter just because of it.

You can also report someone for spawn-camping. It's a banable offense if they are spawn-camping you without stealing your supplies and not just waiting for the water to fill up. Although, I don't agree with spawn-camping being a banable offense if no toxicity is being said. I think the people spawn-camping might just want to have some practice (again it doesn't need to be consensual) and the people being spawn-camped have a scuttle option so, they can finish it at any moment, whenever they want.