LazerPig preaching it as it is.

In my opinion this was a gaming version of a very common style of video on youtube that isn't based on objectivity, fairness, or accuracy but instead is specifically designed to cater to the specific opinions of those that have a negative view of something and seek out to have it validated by a "truth teller".

An arrangement of opinions where the content creator benefits with clicks and support by telling a group precisely what they want to hear at the expense of objectivity and accuracy.

It's a bubble where the content creator and viewer create a space of negativity where views are not truly questioned as the content creator has no requirement to have their stated opinions tested by differing views and comment sections are filled with people that are there to be surrounded by negative opinions that match theirs.

"pvp sweatfest for obese guys in their late 20s" and going on to imply that pvpers are commonly racist while portraying pvers as victims. Good people vs bad people approach to criticism of risk/reward design is manipulative and heavily biased.

These types of videos are designed to be spread around as "owned" videos but imo it's weak on substance, even though there are opinions that are valid they are smothered by manipulative exaggeration and biased presentation.

@ogdirtyape said in LazerPig preaching it as it is.:

2.) The addition of new content is mostly driven around a PVP encounter perspective. The FotD is a good example of this. Also the new Athena missions are designed to show the entire map that you are completing that mission, and therefore attract competent (and maybe not so competent) crews into the action.

the last real attempt was FoF

Athena voyage doesn't really show the entire map it just temporarily shows people that are close by or seriously searching an active area, people are already improving at these and the tornado regularly doesn't stay up long for competent crews. It also offers easy flag grade throughout the quest so people can sell before the end objective.

Current content is largely catering to casual players and they appear to be adapting with (imo) a necessary approach to content that serves more of the mid risk/less time consuming opportunities with solid design

I think there is little they can do for those that are burning out from participating in something for as long as they have. Burnout is inevitable when something consumes so much of someone's time. Poor performance adds to frustration.

For newer players and casual players that don't put as much time into the game this game is still a super awesome and exciting experience when it comes to content and all of the commendations and cosmetics.

There are plenty of criticisms I regularly type out but I think content and variety of risk/reward content are better than ever. Opportunities for adventurer/casual players are far more abundant.

I have a view that those of us that have been around a long time have been served. We had our time, we ate well, and if we put in effort we still can find things to do and enjoy. Imo it's fine to keep focus on the up and coming pirates. Making sure they have their time to shine with an environment that is well maintained and balanced so that they can find positive and memorable organic experiences of their own.

The video aims to paint large parts of a community toxic to try to manipulate a reaction that gives some people what they want.
This community isn't toxic. It ain't perfect, not even close, but none are. Countless bright and light individuals that are sharing a common passion. Unpleasant interactions happen, style clashing happens, personality clashing happens, but at the core of the random experience there is activity created by fascinating existences. So many talented people sail the seas, I'm not talking content but creation and creativity. Some here on the forums and many without a significant social presence. That's what is always fresh in this game, the daily opportunity to meet random people with interesting stories, creators of craft and art, witty people, thoughtful people, skilled and talented people, warm presences. The seas can be rough, I've seen it, many times, but there is a lot of beauty and spirit randomly sailing around out there too, I've also seen that many times.

I bought this game when it first came out and played for only a few months. The PVP was too intense for me, and I quit playing for a long time. I started playing again almost 2 years ago, when my son started playing, and fell in love with the almost everything about it. Almost. I do agree with some of the things in the video. Not all. I have only encountered a handful of so called "toxic" players. Most of the SOT community that I have had dealings with, have been pleasant.
I have been sunk and killed probably more than of any other person that plays this game. At my age, my skill level is about as good as it is going to get. Sure, I learn a new trick here and there, but I'm pretty sure my fighting skills are topped off. I even have a hard time with the AI.
I don't believe that it is just a small group complaining and begging for pve servers. I see it asked for many times in multiple forums every day. The response is always the same, with the exception of a few tips here and there. "It's a Pirate game, Get GUD, Rare has made it clear that it won't happen, and It will ruin the game". I'm no expert in gaming, so I can't say that it will ruin the game. But I will say that the "It's a Pirate game. and Get GUD" response does bother me. I am willing to bet that a great percentage of those wanting to play on pve servers are most likely as GUD as they are going to get. There are many that will improve with time and experience. But most complaining about the PVP aspect, probably are simply not good at PVP, but love everything else about this game. They just can't handle the stress of the PVP.
I have only played SOT one time in the past month because right now, I haven't been ready to deal with the stress of being boarded and sunk while I'm in the middle of figuring out what I'm doing during my current adventure. Is this something that Rare needs to fix? I don't know. But I do know that if SOT can't retain its new players because they are overwhelmed by the pvp aspect, they will take their money and migrate on to another game.
Me personally. I would like to see Solo only servers. I would at least feel like my chances of survival would be better. But then again, my PVP skills are not that good.

@mr-ugly-joe said in LazerPig preaching it as it is.:

I bought this game when it first came out and played for only a few months. The PVP was too intense for me

Understandable, part of the reason I am so opposed to how chain shots were implemented outside of me believing they are very unbalanced is that easily immobilizing a ship is an extremely intense and unpleasant experience for some. I don't feel that people like yourself should just be pushed into dealing with that or leaving. I think chainshots were implemented interference that amplified pretty much every negative or unpleasant effect of combat.

Almost. I do agree with some of the things in the video. Not all. I have only encountered a handful of so called "toxic" players. Most of the SOT community that I have had dealings with, have been pleasant.

Imo a common mistake people make (not saying you) is putting unpleasantness in with toxicity. Unpleasantness in inevitable from time to time and pleasantness isn't an obligation. That's where the importance of self care/protection and being there for one another comes into play, to keep things ok through random and temporary unpleasant interactions.

They just can't handle the stress of the PVP.

understandable

I have only played SOT one time in the past month because right now, I haven't been ready to deal with the stress of being boarded and sunk while I'm in the middle of figuring out what I'm doing during my current adventure. Is this something that Rare needs to fix? I don't know.

Do you find shorter time requirement and mid risk content helpful in your journey? Imo sea forts are perfect for someone similar to you.

It's awesome to have you around and hopefully you end up playing more and finding more of a comfort zone for your sessions. I think the game benefits by bringing in more shorter time requirement mid risk loot options, I think it makes the environment more accessible to different personality and play types. In my opinion the seas are higher quality with more adventurers and sailors that enjoy the parts of the game that you enjoy. Perhaps I am not accurate with this assumption but I really do think you would do well by implementing sessions based on sea forts and selling regularly. Hitting islands on the way to sell, getting those megs and skelly ships in between.

@wolfmanbush It's always refreshing to read your post.

I almost consider the word "toxic" to be toxic itself. Toxic to me would be a foul-mouthed crew using specific words that I won't repeat, working hard to try and get me to leave the server (and that has only happened a few times to me). I may not like what they are doing, but I don't consider another crew that sinks my ship and killing me a few times to be toxic.

Sea Forts have been a tremendous help for me. The short time that they take does lower the risk involved. And I have done enough of them that I don't get so anxious about getting attacked after completing one anymore.

Hitting islands and skelly ships is always fun for me. But I also know that there is so much more to do in this game than that.
As a veteran player, I also know that it is possible to go multiple sessions without ever having a PVP encounter. These are the sessions that suck me in deeper to the game every time.
This is a beautiful game with so much to do within it. I'll continue to play this game in its current PvEvP format. I just have to be in the right mindset for it.

I do wish that the SOT community had a little more compassion in the forums for those that shy away from the PVP part of the game. Even though I suck at it, I under that PvEvP is a tune worth dancing to. But I do hope that one day in the future, Rare can do something to keep many of its newer players from logging out for good.

@mr-ugly-joe said in LazerPig preaching it as it is.:

I do wish that the SOT community had a little more compassion in the forums for those that shy away from the PVP part of the game. Even though I suck at it, I under that PvEvP is a tune worth dancing to. But I do hope that one day in the future, Rare can do something to keep many of its newer players from logging out for good.

I agree that positive and understanding communication and messaging creates a more welcoming environment when it is dedicated to acknowledging piratical and personal plight and dismissing it can be harmful to feelings and motivation to participate.

It is my belief that there is no doubt that this game is a better product and a better experience because of those that appreciate pve content and create activity within it. There is heart to this game and the experiences it provides and without that passion for pve it doesn't beat. That includes the forums, a place where people have the opportunity to share their views and their experiences and feedback. Everyone handles experiences differently and struggles with different things, a more consistently considerate approach serves us all kindly in the end.

@like-500-ninjas said in LazerPig preaching it as it is.:

@kommodoreyenser said in LazerPig preaching it as it is.:

@xrekkoffx community just needs to utilize the tools Rare has given us. I only go after other ships who have emissary flags up (opt-in PvP) or come at me aggressively to protect my own ship (sailing at me at an angle outside of my cannon arc, not communicating before getting into their own cannon range)

There is no opt-in PVP in this game. You know that.

Opt in higher risk of pvp

Everyone that plays the game has agreed to an environment where there is risk of being sunk/robbed

@like-500-ninjas said in LazerPig preaching it as it is.:

@musicmee said in LazerPig preaching it as it is.:

@burnbacon I remember the game being dead 6 years ago...

How's that active player count looking compared to what it used to be?

Don't get me wrong, I like your work here....but with under 14k AT MOST playing on Steam and a combined 200kish on a new event day total across all platforms, there's not many of those "30 million plus" unique users on anymore.

I think it's fair to say that the world out there is a lot smaller than the numbers would suggest when it comes to activity.

What this leaves out is passion for the product. Retention is a struggle for a game like this, most of the game's history is that of things requiring a lot of time to complete, that has improved. It's difficult for people to maintain crews in the SoT environment which leads to crews falling apart and people moving on.

Immensely passionate base and we the general public don't know what all is expected of them to keep the lights on around here but what is known is that as long as it is around there will be people that support the product through thick and thin.

@like-500-ninjas said in LazerPig preaching it as it is.:

@wolfmanbush said in LazerPig preaching it as it is.:

@like-500-ninjas said in LazerPig preaching it as it is.:

@musicmee said in LazerPig preaching it as it is.:

@burnbacon I remember the game being dead 6 years ago...

How's that active player count looking compared to what it used to be?

Don't get me wrong, I like your work here....but with under 14k AT MOST playing on Steam and a combined 200kish on a new event day total across all platforms, there's not many of those "30 million plus" unique users on anymore.

I think it's fair to say that the world out there is a lot smaller than the numbers would suggest when it comes to activity.

What this leaves out is passion for the product. Retention is a struggle for a game like this, most of the game's history is that of things requiring a lot of time to complete, that has improved. It's difficult for people to maintain crews in the SoT environment which leads to crews falling apart and people moving on.

Immensely passionate base and we the general public don't know what all is expected of them to keep the lights on around here but what is known is that as long as it is around there will be people that support the product through thick and thin.

Sure I agree with that, but as with many other things in life if you can't retain enough of those people...the passionate base won't suffice to keep it afloat. And when you shoot down every suggestion given to you from those general public players, well, you get low retention and a small player count. It is what it is.

I consider myself part of the passionate base. I have played since launch, have all the accessories offered (multiple controllers), brought people into the game, so on so forth. And when the day comes that the seas dry up, it will be a sad day for me. But I look at the direction the game is going versus the direction the majority of people want it to go and I feel like every time....every decision....they just cut that life fuse a little shorter.

What way does the majority want it to go?

The entire reason they were able to pull off PotC was because of how many people it would serve and because of the confidence that was held in the devs around direction.

Shrines and treasuries, sea forts, PotC, ledgers, seasonal rewards/renown, upcoming captaincy, etc. These were all to serve the majority and done so well.

When it comes to content the direction has been more opportunity, more session freedom, serving more styles and preferences. I have issues with balancing of risk/reward but when it comes to general direction of the game they are doing very well at serving the majority imo. Performance is a serious concern and ongoing issue but the content and direction itself seems in tune.

The new athena voyage shows that they do listen and implement. Athena faction had a massive improvement with the veil, revived dead content. They would never have pulled this off without listening and implementing.

I'm fairly indifferent on the adventures but even they are solid for the environment, a bumpy start but they are on the right track and the quality of their content shows they are still very much invested in creating enjoyable content that greater serves the people that invest in the environment. (please just don't kill off fleets or skelly ships ever again ty)

@like-500-ninjas
"30 Million user" in their recent video is just a marketing scheme.
Yeh, I wonder how many of those "30 million players" are just people that bought the game off Xbox GamePass for the month, tried/logged in once to never touch the game after that. That logs in as a ''unique player''.
Or how about players that have 50+ Alt accounts bypassing bans on the daily?
Easy to manipulate numbers in your favour.

The fact that I come across the same players time to time in a single month on EU, shows that the active player base is pretty darn low... Proven by steam stats and other sites giving a rough guesstimate.
Game isn't ''dead'', but from what I have seen & talked to, SoT clearly has a hard time retaining dedicated players, the community is very small at top for "30 million players". Names get recognized a lot once you start putting in the hours... IDK how many same streamers I have encountered multiple times in EU/NA servers the past 2 months, but too much to count. If the game truly had a huge dedicated playerbase, there's no way in hell I would be frequenting the same players over and over again in the span of a month considering the game doesn't have a SBMM system as far as I am aware...

Also the video in OP post points towards private servers being a good solution in retaining players, getting comfortable to PvP back into public servers, instead of quitting because they had ONE bad PvP encounter with toxic players and/or getting frustrated losing their loot they worked the past 4 hours on just for them to think ''whats the point'' and quit the game to never touch it again, or maybe in 6 months time giving it another shot just for the above scenario to happen again...

The only concern as stated prior, splitting the playerbase, you will have a sub-community (That kinda already exists in the form of alliance servers) bleeding the game off making public servers seem ''dead'' if the majority of PvE will NEVER dare to go to a public server ever again if they can grind peacefully with no real threat in private... The game isn't ''Sea of Thieves'' anymore if theres never a real threat of having your treasure potentially stolen...
Tough debate.

I consider myself part of the passionate base. I have played since launch, have all the accessories offered (multiple controllers), brought people into the game, so on so forth. And when the day comes that the seas dry up, it will be a sad day for me. But I look at the direction the game is going versus the direction the majority of people want it to go and I feel like every time....every decision....they just cut that life fuse a little shorter.

Couldn't agree more with this. Feels like the general consensus for the team working on this game is focusing on new/average players instead of players that know the game to a good extent and put in the thousands of hours in.
Like the update on Sea fortresses is a prime example of catering towards players that hop on for 30 minutes to an hour then hop off... Whereas the dedicated players use said forts to actually get their server session started with the food that it gives... Not saying they shouldn't put focus on new players and players that are casuals, but when its a repetitive focus, you can't complain why the game fails to retain long dedicated fans out of its ''30 million players''.
The only real update that was geared towards long time players was the Athena Veil update giving PL a more options to level up their increased Athena Cap.

SoT seems to be the only game where people I knew a year ago have completely quit the game, comparing to other games like RB6/LoL/WoW/SC2 where those games experience big meta shifts on a monthly basis, I still have friends that play these games religiously year in and year out.

18:40 in the video explains perfectly why theres so many people that hate PvP in SoT. Some players are just not willing to commit enough time to learn on their own.

@thagoochiestman sagte in LazerPig preaching it as it is.:

@musicmee better question: do you ever remember the game being successful?

Did I miss something? SoT got released on steam 2 years after XBox/Windows release and with the 25 million player count it got 5 million sold copies on steam alone...isn't THAT successful? Or are there other meanings for the word successful?

@thagoochiestman said in LazerPig preaching it as it is.:

better question: do you ever remember the game being successful?

The game went from being known as a game that had little to do, not worth the money or time for many to a game that has consistently put out quality content for years at this point.

Amplifying quality of the experience significantly by coming up with and implementing the emissary system which was such an improvement to the environment it's nearly indescribable.

More quality events added, more quality tall tales added, PoTC, shrines/treasuries, sea forts, voyages improved, ledger system, renown and seasonal reward system.

Over 4 years later they are still regularly releasing quality content, storytelling, experiences for FREE.

Examining where the product began to what it became I don't know how one could claim that this game hasn't been a clear success the last couple of years. That is due to developers that were passionate about the project and it's due to a passionate pirate base that sticks by the product even during times of frustration.

It has flaws but for many it will go down as their favorite game that they emotionally invested in during their lives. If not the top, close to it. A few+ years of time that they will look fondly back on the rest of their days. That's success.

@unleet1 "maybe open world pvpve gaming isn't for you."
And in most cases for me, you are correct about an open world pvpve game not being for me. But this game keeps calling me back to it.

Stress and all. Just the beauty and magic of SOT gets me out of my comfort zone enough to play (when I am in the right mindset for it). But I have also been playing off and on since the game started selling.
I didn't take advantage of Arena like I think that I should have. Maybe if I had played Arena more when it was around, it's possible that I could be more relaxed while playing.

If I look for a group, and decide to join, I'm not as stressed as I am when I play solo. I don't even mind the pvp. Playing in a group usually is better for me (I enjoy the social aspect of it). Why don't I join groups every time you may wonder? I think it's because I have played solo for so long, it has become a habit. I can do what I want, when I want. Not having to have to go along with what a stranger wants to do.
I have even posted looking for a group at times, but my personality usually defaults back to solo. After my son stopped playing, I did find a crew to sail with for a short while, but they were not very interested in the game, and eventually stopped playing.

I understand that pvpve is here to stay. I also know that the majority of the players that have been playing since the beginning, do NOT want it to change. I also suspect that there are many players that buy this game or download it from Gamepass that do not fully understand how hostile this pvpve game can be. Unless you start out playing with friends (and I'm sure there are many groups of friends that start at the same time), many of these people simply will not continue play, because they didn't have the chance to get sucked into before they start to feel helpless.

I really don't think the pve servers are the answer. And Im not going to pretend that I know the answer to what I see as a potential problem. I'm pretty sure that there are many more like me, playing this game that have anxiety issues that love this game too much to stop playing. Even if it causes us stress. Most of us find ways to deal with it one way or another. It's the new players that Rare and Microsoft will have to figure out how to keep.

@like-500-ninjas sagte in LazerPig preaching it as it is.:

@metal-ravage said in LazerPig preaching it as it is.:

@thagoochiestman said in LazerPig preaching it as it is.:

@musicmee better question: do you ever remember the game being successful?

SOT brings home every year a new gaming award and has pushed the boundaries of social interaction in whole new directions. At this point it is one of the most successful sandbox online games.

Ahhhhh.....no. Just no.

GTA is still lightyears ahead, as are others. Don't get me wrong, I like this game but a top sandbox game? No.

GTA is lightyears ahead, yes, true...GTA is out for 9 years now and it's in the top 10 selling charts on consoles almost every week since then...so, comparing those 2 deserves a "you don’t say" (insert gif)

As mentioned above 400k people on the GH ledger every month is pretty good

There's so much I like about this game. Easily 90% of my time spent here has been great; I love getting on a ship with my friends and exploring, doing puzzles, hunting for lore, finding and burying treasure, fighting fleets of skeleton ships and giant sea monsters, it's visually stunning and has the best audio design of anything I've ever played, but so far every single one of my sessions ended with me just that much closer to never wasting another second on it because everyone one of them without exception has ended with some player with 10x my time played stomping the hell out of me, and half of that time while shouting homophobic slurs. The description of it as a sandbox is a lie because you can only play it how you want if "how you want" is constantly worrying about getting gangstalked. The constant threat of getting ganked completely ruins absolutely every enjoyable aspect of the game.
It's a great game if you want to live your bullying fantasies kicking around people with no real chance of fighting back, and a terrible game if you want to just do any of the content that isn't (getting obliterated in) PvP.