People getting banned for taking down PVE Alliance servers?

@mackdi said in People getting banned for taking down PVE Alliance servers?:

Anyways, this just proves in its own way, Alliance servers need to be dealt with.

• No this means leave PVE servers alone. We don't want to PVP. If you do that's fine go do it on a different instance of the game world with other PVP players.

This is why people want to take down alliance servers.

This is where I'll say Alliance Servers are a problem.

(They honestly don't bother me.)
But keep the posturing elsewhere.

What I don't understand is why Alliance servers don't keep a pvp specialist crew on.

Imagine: you con your way onto a server. Sink one or 2. Gally with a skilled crew there for the fight and a payday for guarding engages.

EPIC BATTLE!

I could actually get behind a forced server merge for the loser as an incentive/detriment in these cases (it'll never happen because openly sanctioned Alliance Servers would have to officially exist)

@drbullhammer said in People getting banned for taking down PVE Alliance servers?:

It’s very easy to not get banned. In this example, don’t play with intent to ruin the experience of others.

It’s very easy to not get banned. Just don’t play with bad intentions.

So you think all forms of PvP should be bannable since the losing side will have their experience "ruined" and that word is entirely subjective?

Should PvE players get banned because they "ruin my experience" by running to the red sea and not letting me PvP in peace?

@mackdi said in People getting banned for taking down PVE Alliance servers?:

If you don't want to get banned for being toxic then don't be toxic. Its not hard. It just shows how selfish and toxic some people are when they try to justify why they should be able to have unwanted PVP, harass, bully and create a negative play experience for others. If Rare would get their heads out their butts and put the option to have PVP or PVE instances for where you play then this toxicity would all stop for the most part.

I won't play the game during peak times because of all the toxic players. Every time I play during prime time hours someone has to be a jerk and PVP me and spawn camp and harass. That is not the game I want. I want to be able to have my adventure in peace. I want other players in the game to team up with. If I want to PVP i'll opt into it.

ain't no way a founder user just ranted like a 2-day old player mad they had to engage in PvP in a PvPvE game

PvP and getting into combat isn't toxic, rude comms, betraying/griefing your own crew and refusing to sink enemy boats you've locked down are toxic, and are normally dealt with properly. I'm not sure how you've been here for this long but most of us played this game learning/knowing we would be in a PvP combat scenario and risk losing what we worked for, that's the excitement of it, those that weren't a fan of the risk/reward cutthroat playstyle of this kind of open world game found a new world in the outer shores and hopefully found their enjoyment.

I've see some accounts be weird about their distaste for PvP in this game, but I wouldn't have expected a founder to have the same mindset like they've been in a slumber for 5 years to wake up and scream the same thing as many other newer faces have shouted into the void. Please do not derail the topic with those kinds of injections as well, since that gets threads locked with an official response by the developers accompanied by it.

@v*ca-hombre said:

...does it technically count as targeting? It's iffy. You ARE going out of your way to track them down, but aren't mechanically doing anything wrong outside of that... The fact that it's this more nebulous area that is open to interpretation is the entire issue.

Lol I'm not tracking anyone down, and that makes it sound weird.

These groups advertise in LFGs & even SoT's official discord sometimes. If I'd be going out of my way to do anything, it'd be to get a spot for me & my crew. Otherwise, I'd have no intention to target any individual & I wouldn't really care who else shows up that day. I just want the experience of having a bunch of crews team up to shoot at me.

They're trying to manufacture their own experience, I'd be trying to manufacture mine. Seems like it really just boils down to being dishonest in the vc/party when the manufacturing happens.

I don't really see how this is a complicated subject or a "grey area". As long as you aren't being disrespectful and sink them and say GG and move on how is that breaking TOS? It's no different than seeing someone and sinking them.

@drbullhammer said in People getting banned for taking down PVE Alliance servers?:

@alienmagi I was very clear with what I said. If you choose to intentionally misunderstand it to fit your narrative, that’s on you.

There was no misunderstanding.
I made an argument using your own exact logic in an analogy. Thats how analogies work and they are extremely effective at dismantling short sighted opinions.

@drbullhammer said in People getting banned for taking down PVE Alliance servers?:

@alienmagi no reasonable train of thought could take you from what I said to what you claim my point was. I think you know that. The line between what’s acceptable PvP and what’s harassment is easy to see, that’s why literally millions of players have participated in PvP encounters without needing to worry about a ban.

Again, I made an analogous example of why your version of "easy to see line between pvp and harrassment" could punish innocent PvP players and you dodged my point twice.

The whole point of this entire thread is that non toxic pvp players are worried about getting a false ban. If it didnt happen before there would be no concerns in the first place.

@drbullhammer said in People getting banned for taking down PVE Alliance servers?:

@alienmagi nope, what you did is make up a ridiculous scenario that’s in no way analogous to the point I made. No one is being banned for normal PvP interactions. A person choosing to run into the Red Sea isn’t ruining your peaceful gameplay, because PvP isn’t peaceful and you’re not entitled to a fight. Want to fight them? Catch them before they leave the bounds of the map. Want your ridiculous statements to stop being dismissed? Try honest discourse.

People have been banned for normal pvp interactions. Why do you think this thread exists?

Calling my scenario "ridiculous" is not an argument. PvP can be as peaceful as fighting enemies in PvE so thats another personal opinion with no substance.

Yes, youre finally catching on to my 2nd analogy, I am indeed not entitled to a fight just as you are not entitled to be safe on the seas, alliance server or not.

@drbullhammer said in People getting banned for taking down PVE Alliance servers?:

@alienmagi anecdotes from biased sources are not evidence of bans coming from normal PvP interactions. You know that just like you know that your second point is ridiculous and not analogies to any points I’ve made. Again, honest discourse would go a long way.

Ah yes, the anecdotes from all those statements made by Rare and videos from affected players, of course. Sure, my posts are just so ridiculous that you didnt come up with one solid counter argument and deflected through an entire thread page all while implying that I am dishonest. I give up.

@v*ca-hombre said:

They're trying to manufacture their own experience, I'd be trying to manufacture mine.

That's what I've been saying!

Yeah I guess, but that wasn't the part that I disagreed with anyway. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Most of our exchange in this thread has been you getting on my case about making an argument I never made lol. Maybe that was due to a lack of clarity on my part, but I thought I had been thorough in explaining my point. If not, my b.

Only reason I bothered to say anything at all was because you found it okay to vilify players like me, claimimg that we're specifically looking to anger others. Which you later stepped back from, calling it hyperbolic. Cool.

But initially it reminded me of the support ticket in which, despite everything I said, I was told my intent was to harass.

You say neither side is innocent, and if that was the case then the ones submitting the mass reports would probably face consequences too. They don't. If neither side was guilty (like I hoped), then players who infiltrate shouldn't worry about bans if they remained polite/respectful, not harassing anyone inside or outside of the game, or sabotaging their own crew, or anything that would be deemed unsporting. But that's not the case either.

It seems there's no gray area with alliances, as they're free to spike servers and cheese as they please. There's only a gray area when it comes to infiltrating them. And my support ticket makes it look a little more black & white.

@burnbacon said in People getting banned for taking down PVE Alliance servers?:

The only way I see people getting Banned for doing these things. Is by having the whole group on the Alliance server gang up and mass report the one single player.

Enough reports on a player, 90% of the time they will be punished, even if no evidence is given. Just the sheer amount of reports on a profile is "evidence".

Anyways, this just proves in its own way, Alliance servers need to be dealt with.

Alright. Speaking as an Alliance Server player, and someone who has been staff on Alliance Servers before- With the ones I'm familiar with, we do not mass report someone for turning on the server and 'just doing PvP' against the server. There's no point.

I am incredibly skeptical of the story being given and willing to bet there is a lot more going on behind the scenes.

Ships "going Rogue" is not an infrequent occurrence on Alliance Servers, and the response in place from the severs I've been to generally tend to be the same. Kick, block, move on. That's it.

It is a regular risk that Alliance Servers have to be aware of and they tend to have a standard practice when it comes to it. The player/s involved are often spoken to and attempted to be reasoned with. Failing that, they are banned -from the alliance discord server-. Not from the game. Alliance servers don't have any affect over that.
We don't tend to report people. Especially not for doing PvP.
Unsolicited PvP results in an Alliance kick, not a report to Rare.

Following the kick, their name may potentially be put on a blocklist that might be shared between partnered alliance servers that the player is a possible risk. This may cause them to be blocked from the discord of the partnered alliance server as well, as they protect their ships.

That's it. Done deal.

No reports to Rare are made, nor do they need to be.
Banning them from the discord is enough to keep them off the server which the Alliances are running their ships.

The ONLY time that a Rare report MIGHT be made, is if the player in question is using heavy vulgarity and racist language. But that tends to be a case by case basis, and up to particular players to report if they so choose... same as you might see with other players on open general. Not "mass reporting".

So what I'm wondering here, and am suspecting most likely happened, is that there is more going on behind the scenes then what we are being told about. That more might have been pulled and that really toxic behavior and language was done off screen (possibly even in open general seas) which isn't being shown or told about here.

I guess, reading through all the responses, I'm on the fence about this. I don't know if I believe the initial story (I'm guessing there was more going on than just betraying an Alliance Server), however should there be repercussions? In essence, you are absolutely targeting a specific group of people. If you replace "Alliance Servers" with a "Pride Server" or "female server" where a group of individuals created a curated space for similar and specifically-qualified people to play together, and someone specifically infiltrated that server by way of deceit, then wouldn't that be specifically targeting? You discovered a group that wanted their own space, you invaded it through deception and then violated their conditions for accepting you into their group. Now, Alliance Servers aren't a protected class by any means, so the analogy isn't perfect, but it does call into question what in this scenario would be considered "targeting?" Because you are going above and beyond to find a particular sub-set of the population and specifically engaging with them, would that not be targeting, and in kind harassment?

I dunno. I see it from both sides. It's tricky, and grey, and perhaps should be outside the purview of Rare to monitor, but it is interesting.

@maximusarael020 said:

I'm on the fence about this... In essence, you are absolutely targeting a specific group of people. If you replace "Alliance Servers" with a "Pride Server" or "female server" where a group of individuals created a curated space for similar and specifically-qualified people to play together, and someone specifically infiltrated that server by way of deceit, then wouldn't that be specifically targeting?... Now, Alliance Servers aren't a protected class by any means, so the analogy isn't perfect, but it does call into question what in this scenario would be considered "targeting?" Because you are going above and beyond to find a particular sub-set of the population and specifically engaging with them, would that not be targeting, and in kind harassment?

Imo those specific qualifications are more intrinsic to a person's identity than being an "alliance player," or a "reaper," or anything in-game.

And I think one thing that keeps getting ignored by people's presumptions and line-between-reading skills is intent. If an individual's goal was to target people for being female or gay, or of a certain race, or even because they play in alliance servers, your concerns would be valid.

However, I can tell this whole thread and SoT Support that my only intention is to get fun, crazy PvP from being focused by the whole server, and they will tell me that my intent was to anger and harass. So whatever, I give up lol.

Here's my two cents.

There's definitely an inherent risk of being mass-reported by people in alliance servers, but given how vitriolic some of the hardcore PvP community is towards them, and people that participate, I can almost guarantee there are/were things that happened/said that was conveniently left out. Some PvP players cannot help themselves but to trash talk. It's nothing new in any kind if PvP game, not even just SoT.

If you ask me, specifically aiming to go into these closed alliance servers with the intention of dismantling them, effectively ruining the time of everyone within CAN be considered a breach in CoC, which, Rare has elaborated on as someone above posted. Any time someone is banned or temporarily suspended, there is ALWAYS some kind of excuse, deflection, or info purposely left out to try and save face value.

Personally, I could care less about alliance servers. I don't think they're really hurting anyone, and honestly, I think that anyone saying otherwise is looking for reasons to complain. In a game where cosmetics are the only form of visual progression, people are going to eventually end up at the same destination for the most part. I think that wasting time and energy worrying about how others arrive at the same, eventual destination is quite fruitless and silly. I also think that if people allow how others achieve the same achievement, obtain the same cosmetic, etc, in a different way, to somehow devalue their own hard work, that's ultimately their problem. If people are enjoying the game, I think that's really all that matters.

The notion that alliance servers are going to "kill the game" is also just a bunch of belly-aching nonsense.

At the end of the day, one customer has upset many customers. All things being equal, it's pretty easy (business wise) who the company should side with and their argument would simply be 'you targeted a group of people outside of our game and then used our game to make them unhappy'.

They don't want to get into a philosophical debate, or nitpick over who's ToC's were violated, or debate whether you meant to make them unhappy; they want to maintain overall happiness and go home at the end of a hard day's work. It's far easier to warn / ban the infiltrator than to side with them and potentially encourage more instances of this happening.

@ajm123 said in People getting banned for taking down PVE Alliance servers?:

@maximusarael020 Noone but rare owns a server.

I don't disagree, but then again, I don't think anyone was disputing ownership of a server.

If someone wants to sneak into a alliance server sink everyone oh well.

The issue I see with this is that most people don't "sneak" into them, they're invited in with the sole purpose of ruining the experience for everyone else within. It would be one thing if someone server merged into an alliance server. But when you see streamers like Summit, who purposely try to get invited, with the sole intention of dismantling it, that can be/has been considered a breach of ToS.

As long as they aren't in gamechat yelling racist things imo its fair game. The alliances are cheating the system buy getting free gold.

I think that's largely why there's been quite a few players banned due to AS infiltration; It's no secret that PvP players in ANY game are competitive, and sometimes have god complexes, often popping off over open-mic and regretting it later. And? I'm sorry, but I'm not really sympathetic to that plight anymore. Gold is ultimately meaningless, and aside from time-limited cosmetics, everyone will eventually arrive at the same destination as everyone else. Getting upset over how others choose to enjoy the game is quite silly.

Some would argue "they are true pirates cheating the system" I say ban the people who are flag duplicating to get first on leaderboards. Not the people attempting to stop them from doing it.

I've never heard of flag duplicating, so I'm curious to hear how that happens. If players do partake in that, they should be banned, I definitely agree. I don't think that something like that is regulated to only happening in alliance servers, though.

And if you don't believe that flag duplicating is a thing I've seen pictures with my own eyes. Alliance servers are as toxic if not more toxic then the people just trying to test their skills and fight 4 ships at once what's the crime in that

From what I've heard and observed, most alliance servers are just some folks trying to have fun and enjoy the game. They're not really my cup of tea, but I can see why many enjoy them. I'm primarily a PvP player, but I did get curious to try them. The few times I decided to try them out, I ended up making friends with the crew I joined, and it was honestly a chill session. As with anything else, there's always bad apples, but I don't think it's correct to generalize every AS as toxic.