@vakrisone I have already explained that sails that obscure your view isn't an inconvenience - it's intended. It promotes teamwork and communication. If you allow all sails to have a more slim-lined trim, you lose that, and that, IMO is NOT a QoL improvement.
The Dark Adventurer Sails are a SERIOUS PROBLEM because at helm they BLATANTLY PUNISH you for using anything else!
@lormiun i know right its just a mobry flex mostly personly i have them but u only use them on gally or brig but most of the time i cant be bothered searching for them when im decking out the ship
DA sails are for noobs that don’t have the ability to use anything else. If your so bad that you feel you have to use these to get an upper hand then so be it.
There are more players that don’t use them that are plenty capable of using flat sails with no tears and still outsailing/sinking you.
This sounds like a “you” problem. Not a game issue
@longbeardfellow said in The Dark Adventurer Sails are a SERIOUS PROBLEM because at helm they BLATANTLY PUNISH you for using anything else!:
Something not everyone may be aware of. As a Helmsman, you literally don't need to stand with your hand attached to the wheel 100% of your time. If you are, you're a bad Helmsman.
This isn't even denial. This is just straight up ridiculous.
OF COURSE you shouldn't have your hands glued to the wheel all the time but,
for example in a storm -.- when you want to avoid rocks ... and your crew is perhaps rather sub-optimal.
Does it make you a "Bad Helmsman" for wishing to be able to SEE when you steer?
And spare me your sacred curls ... especially on the topic-relevant ships Galleon and Brig.Before the DA-Sails I would have NEVER made this argument (Kraken sails were a thing but NOT the same league/issue as DA-Sails)
If you are one of those that want DA-Sails removed. That's fine.
That would ALSO solve the issue but that would be kind of sad for SoT.
QoL would be lost instead of improved.@galactic-geek said in The Dark Adventurer Sails are a SERIOUS PROBLEM because at helm they BLATANTLY PUNISH you for using anything else!:
@vakrisone I have already explained that sails that obscure your view isn't an inconvenience - it's intended. It promotes teamwork and communication. If you allow all sails to have a more slim-lined trim, you lose that, and that, IMO is NOT a QoL improvement.
Oh please ... do you actually believe what you are saying here or have you yet to steer a Galleon through a storm?
@pabio-escobar said in The Dark Adventurer Sails are a SERIOUS PROBLEM because at helm they BLATANTLY PUNISH you for using anything else!:
DA sails are for noobs that don’t have the ability to use anything else. If your so bad that you feel you have to use these to get an upper hand then so be it.
There are more players that don’t use them that are plenty capable of using flat sails with no tears and still outsailing/sinking you.
This sounds like a “you” problem. Not a game issue
I don't think I have the need to argue against this but I WISH to preserve this post.
Everybody with a slight understanding of the helm, please read this, let this dudes mindset sink in,
and then PLEASE re-evaluate my PoV.@galactic-geek said in The Dark Adventurer Sails are a SERIOUS PROBLEM because at helm they BLATANTLY PUNISH you for using anything else!:
@vakrisone I have already explained that sails that obscure your view isn't an inconvenience - it's intended. It promotes teamwork and communication. If you allow all sails to have a more slim-lined trim, you lose that, and that, IMO is NOT a QoL improvement.
That is your opinion and you're perfectly welcome to it. However, if sails obscuring vision is intended game design then why would the developers add a sail that doesn't obscure vision as much? Think about it. Saying it's, "intended" just because you don't like the trim on the DA sails is false. The developers clearly added the DA sails to the game because they in fact intended for them to be an option available to their players. Nothing more, nothing less.
I also disagree with your hypothesis that the regular sails promote teamwork and communication. That again is a choice made by each crew as to how they communicate. As a helmsman you don't actually need anyone to tell you what is in front of your ship. You're not legally required to glue your hands to the wheel at all times. You can let go and get a better view at any time. You can also curl the sails upwards a smidge and voila! Suddenly you have more forward vision. The poor man's DA sails achievement unlocked :)
Without even reading this wall of text the problem is they give a visibility advantage? On top of that the high gold cost makes it virtual pay 2 win? i mean before this the smarter players would use the kraken sails as they were slightly shorter and had tears in them to give some visibility.
I would argue the issue here is the lack of more sails like this. Not them existing in the first place.
(ok i did read a bit at the end so you have the same idea) My solution would be Allow us to not only choose our sails graphic but its shape too. Then we could use whatever sails we want and whatever style we want. So any sail in the game could have the visibility advantage of the dark adventurer sails. I think this is kind of a mandatory change that NEEDS to happen considering you have so many sails that people pay real money for but the DA sails are too broken... Though this would require them having to tweak all the art for all the sails to allow them to look good on the different sail shapes... Or just let the players accept that the shapes would cut off part of the designs i would accept that. But yea considering sails is the largest section of cosmetic selection in the game only having 2 shapes that are viable for smart players is silly
@magus104 Thanks for reading in the end. I am afraid a lot of those that disagree with me here never really bothered to understand my point of view (D
@lormiun said:
If you are one of those that want DA-Sails removed. That's fine.
That would ALSO solve the issue but that would be kind of sad for SoT.
QoL would be lost instead of improvedSome might say QoLwas lost when the DA sails were added. 😅
@vakrisone said in The Dark Adventurer Sails are a SERIOUS PROBLEM because at helm they BLATANTLY PUNISH you for using anything else!:
@galactic-geek said in The Dark Adventurer Sails are a SERIOUS PROBLEM because at helm they BLATANTLY PUNISH you for using anything else!:
@vakrisone I have already explained that sails that obscure your view isn't an inconvenience - it's intended. It promotes teamwork and communication. If you allow all sails to have a more slim-lined trim, you lose that, and that, IMO is NOT a QoL improvement.
That is your opinion and you're perfectly welcome to it. However, if sails obscuring vision is intended game design then why would the developers add a sail that doesn't obscure vision as much? Think about it. Saying it's, "intended" just because you don't like the trim on the DA sails is false. The developers clearly added the DA sails to the game because they in fact intended for them to be an option available to their players. Nothing more, nothing less.
I also disagree with your hypothesis that the regular sails promote teamwork and communication. That again is a choice made by each crew as to how they communicate. As a helmsman you don't actually need anyone to tell you what is in front of your ship. You're not legally required to glue your hands to the wheel at all times. You can let go and get a better view at any time. You can also curl the sails upwards a smidge and voila! Suddenly you have more forward vision. The poor man's DA sails achievement unlocked :)
I can easily counter your point with a counterpoint - if it wasn't intentional, then why didn't Rare make the cut on all of the sails higher, like the DA sails, when pirates 1st came to the Sea?
Think on that for a bit.
As for doing it yourself, and leaving the wheel, I've always been a supporter of that (I ain't no stinking lazybeard!). However, word of mouth by your crew is simply faster - that's all there is to it.
And rolling the sails up? That's what the true lazybeards do - and I don't like slowing down my ship if I don't need to.
@galactic-geek said in The Dark Adventurer Sails are a SERIOUS PROBLEM because at helm they BLATANTLY PUNISH you for using anything else!:
I can easily counter your point with a counterpoint - if it wasn't intentional, then why didn't Rare make the cut on all of the sails higher, like the DA sails, when pirates 1st came to the Sea?
Think on that for a bit.
"Counterpoint" XD
Let me answer your question: For the same reason why there were no harpoons at the beginning of SoT.
There were people that argued that picking up the loot by hand was "part of the package".
With the DA-Sails it is 1:1 the same situation.
It is called "Improvement".
Never would I say that the other sails have no place in SoT anymore.
That doesn't change the situation though.As for doing it yourself, and leaving the wheel, I've always been a supporter of that (I ain't no stinking lazybeard!). However, word of mouth by your crew is simply faster - that's all there is to it.
I assure you, your own sight SHOULD be faster XD
And rolling the sails up? That's what the true lazybeards do - and I don't like slowing down my ship if I don't need to.
Agreed 100%
A realization further supporting this case.@lormiun said:
With the DA-Sails it is 1:1 the same situation.
Actually, it isn't. You're comparing apples to oranges - they're both fruit sure, but they're otherwise 2 entirely different things.
@galactic-geek said in The Dark Adventurer Sails are a SERIOUS PROBLEM because at helm they BLATANTLY PUNISH you for using anything else!:
I can easily counter your point with a counterpoint - if it wasn't intentional, then why didn't Rare make the cut on all of the sails higher, like the DA sails, when pirates 1st came to the Sea?
Probably for the same reasons they didn't have things like the Brig, harpoons, mast damage, different skins for sails, the disable camera shake and loot blur options, the storage crate "take all/store all" button, etc, etc. It's called adding additional features and QoL options/content to a game post release.
Your argument about a theoretical "intended gameplay" that is somehow written in stone is pretty irrelevant. The DA sails are in the game. Nobody is forcing you to use them. However the important thing is that the developers clearly gave players the choice to use them.
The fundamental principal of SoT's game design is tools not rules.
@vakrisone said in The Dark Adventurer Sails are a SERIOUS PROBLEM because at helm they BLATANTLY PUNISH you for using anything else!:
@galactic-geek said in The Dark Adventurer Sails are a SERIOUS PROBLEM because at helm they BLATANTLY PUNISH you for using anything else!:
I can easily counter your point with a counterpoint - if it wasn't intentional, then why didn't Rare make the cut on all of the sails higher, like the DA sails, when pirates 1st came to the Sea?
Probably for the same reasons they didn't have things like the Brig, harpoons, mast damage, different skins for sails, the disable camera shake and loot blur options, the storage crate "take all/store all" button, etc, etc. It's called adding additional features and QoL options/content to a game post release.
Your argument about a theoretical "intended gameplay" that is somehow written in stone is pretty irrelevant. The DA sails are in the game. Nobody is forcing you to use them. However the important thing is that the developers clearly gave players the choice to use them.
The fundamental principal of SoT's game design is tools not rules.
It's not a lack of better things kind of argument - the devs at Rare in the early days directly stated that the sails were purposefully designed in that manner - you had to rely on teamwork. Remember, back then there were no sloops or brigs. Soloing a galleon was only for the hardcore.
The only reason the DA sails were trimmed in the fashion that they were was as an experiment - they wanted to see how much of a difference it could make. Would everyone use the DA sails? Would the cost curb the demand? Would it actually provide a significant advantage during certain situations? So far, the answers to those questions seem to be no, yes, and no - respectively.
Rare loves to experiment with new ideas - I still remember when they asked the community how they would feel about bright, colorful, or goofier-looking cosmetics - and well, here we are...
@galactic-geek said in The Dark Adventurer Sails are a SERIOUS PROBLEM because at helm they BLATANTLY PUNISH you for using anything else!:
The only reason the DA sails were trimmed in the fashion that they were was as an experiment - they wanted to see how much of a difference it could make. Would everyone use the DA sails? Would the cost curb the demand? Would it actually provide a significant advantage during certain situations? So far, the answers to those questions seem to be no, yes, and no - respectively.
Yet the answers are more no than yes huh? On what basis?
Granted I never denied that the advantage in pure PvP is not as drastic as one perhaps would assume at first glance BUT:
These sails are the sails to be seen most often BY FAR!If we assumed for a moment that it were truly "not an issue" then tell me, why in oblivion is that the case?
Because they look so beautiful XD ? Or because of "Prestiege" (D ?Personally I don't even think they are ugly.
"And yet: Here we are."The Captancy-Update is dawning ... I truly hope that Rare will take a stance and that this "DA-Situation", as I think one can call it, will then be resolved.
@capthitreg The simplest solution. With that I concur.
But imagine how much more the SoT would benefit from a Sail-Editor, like described here, in stead of that.PS: Or AT-LEAST some more sails in that shape :( ... XD
@capthitreg said in The Dark Adventurer Sails are a SERIOUS PROBLEM because at helm they BLATANTLY PUNISH you for using anything else!:
I say we remove the Dark Adventurer sails
Talk about gold inflation. Gonna have a bunch of people with an extra 8.2 million in their pocket after their refund.
If we had the option to add cuts, it would be a nice QoL add-on that could be used as a gold sink. 1M for DA cut, 500k for something like the kraken's cut, 250k for torn, and 100k for tattered... Something like that? I don't use the the DA sails normally as they're a bit too cliché for me and everyone seems to run them. It was fun when they first came out, but now they are everywhere and adding cuts would help everyone standout that little bit more on the seas.
I had seen a post saying make the v cut an extra add on to the price..a customization. I'm all for this I'm sure something is in the works..I don't think people realize tho how much effort goes into making sure the sails don't glitch out and what not. Probably why u don't see many sails that look that way....yet
@ajm123 I PRAY you are right. The Captaincy-Update SHOULD include something like that.
It trust Rare in being able to do this though :)@burnbacon said in The Dark Adventurer Sails are a SERIOUS PROBLEM because at helm they BLATANTLY PUNISH you for using anything else!:
Too long to read.
What I got is something about sails from a set being more advantaged or something. Where I get the same effect with any sail by doing the curl
It’s your manners that I really appreciate Burnbacon.
Why are people not getting that the disadvantage is not the cut nor the price? It's the fact it's of a sole design! An underwhelming design may I add.
I would love to see more designs with the same cut at the same price so I was actually excited to have them. This way I just feel the need to spend a lot of money on sails everyone else uses. Why do people like to gatekeep things in this game to feel better about themselves is amazing.
@captainmcguffin
Let the thread die the topic has been discussed at length and all the points addressed.Reread some posts for your answer.
@captainmcguffin GrumpyW01lf is one of those that vehemently defend SoT, when it comes to this.
As I would assume this to be commonly known at this point:
This Forum in general is full of SoT-Fannboys that defend even the worst aspects of it to the blood.Guess that makes sense though as SHOULD Rare actually implement a change actually based on this Forum,
well then an army to point out any eventual flaw comes in handy.I will summarize the greatest conter-arguments:
+Advantage not so big in PvP.
+Use the sacred Curl.
+and F you for even bringing this up because I already deluded myself into a mindset which allows me to ignore these sails.PS: GrumpyW01f himself was actually the most reasonable opponent to this entire post but his points were only valid for Try-hard PvP which is FAR from the core of the issue.
@grumpyw01f Even I did not anticipate that so many others would agree with me when it comes to this topic.
But to ME it is a serious deal.
Apparently at least to SOME others as well.@lormiun I sail every day, and I see ships every day, and do you know often I see those DA sails?
Like once a week.
Do you know which sails are actually used the most?
The Sailor sails. Yes, that's right! Vanilla plain sails that everyone gets at the beginning.
I see those on virtually 50% of ships.
Do you want to know why?
It's because:
[A] they're genuinely new pirates - the Sea's community keeps growing;
[B] they're trying to look like new pirates - skilled pirate ambush strategy;
[C] they're lazy pirates - can't be bothered with changing their ship's appearance when there's sailing to be done;
[D] they're stubborn or unlucky pirates - got attacked upon spawn and had to flee the Outpost quickly and don't want to switch servers.
@galactic-geek If you see them only once a week then I envy you.
I see them at least every second voyage -.-And you are right, I will not deny that the freakin STARTER-DEFAULT Sails are probably the TRULY most used sails.
I just didn't even consider that worthy of a mention.
Especially if we count-in the huge amount of m8ts that would never even bother to grind to anything even coming close to DA-Sails.
But even with that granted, I'm pretty sure you know very well that this does not actually mean anything in regards to this post.But yeah, I clarify:
The DA-Sails probably only come in second, after the sails you literally come equipped with in every beginning.
You are right :P
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